dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?

[thesaint]

Lupit ng post mo master evo69.
Ako din may DVD+RW since 2001. Toshiba ang brand. 18K pa ang bili ko sa taiwan. Yund blank dvd+r nun
ay 200 pesos pa. Ridata ang brand. Yung mga back-up disc ko ngayon halos 60% na lang ang nari-read.
Thanks sa post mo. Breakthrough ito...

    

[evo69]

Hehe wala lang akong ginagawa ngayon eh, so feel kong magtype ng mahaba. Na-carpal tunnel ata ako sa haba sorry.

Gusto ko lang malinawan ang mga tao na komplikado actually ang pagpipili sa mga blank DVD, single or dual layer man. Akala ko din dati na ginagawa talaga nung mga kompanya sarili nilang discs. Yun pala oonti lang talaga gumagawa, meron pang outsourcing at kung ano pa.

I also believe people should know what they're buying, kahit na maunahan at maubusan nila ako nung mga magagandang discs (pasabi nalang sa akin kung saan at magtira kayo!)

Bawat linggo ako bumibili ng discs, sobrang adik na talaga. Hanggang di ako makakahanap ng supplier/importer ng That's Write/Panasonic/TY discs dito sa Pinas lagi kong tatahakin ang mga lansangan sa kakahanap ng may stock pa ng Verbatim o Mitsubishi para di ako maubusan. Mas mahal pa gastos ko sa discs kesa sa damit o pagkain! Watdapak! :p

I need to join something like "mediaholics anonymous". Seriously. 

[Clondalkin]

Evo69, why do you need thousands of blank disks nga ba?     You're not into piracy business right?   

I use hundreds of TDKs and Thats for high def back-ups, digital photo back-ups and home video back-ups.

Which has the potential to last longer -  Back-up on a high quality DVD-R or hard disk drive back-up?

[evo69]

Hehe if I was in the piracy business I'd be pressing/replicating my own discs Much cheaper that way But I don't want to invest in something like that - too expensive for short runs for clients.

And collecting and using quality media for me is somewhat of a hobby, an addiction. I don't ever want to run out of blank media!

I do post-production and shoot live performances, music videos, and the occasional "kaibigan" projects - like transfers of old video documentaries to DVD, stuff like that. I also do short runs of CD albums for the slaving and non-abot-kaya "kakilalas" - actually anything I could dabble into. I like choosing my own projects, I hate "the man" and corporate desk jobs. And burning the project files (and using multiple discs) makes the consumption worse.

You use hundreds of TDKs and That's? (8x TDK and 16x That's?) Care to tell me where you get such great media? (You can PM me if you want to keep it a secret lol) I have a half-empty spindle of TDK (16x CMC Taiwan though) and found a retailer of 16x That's Write (I prefer the 8x TY though) but overly overpriced (90-120 per disc! In slim jewel cases).

As for optical vs magnetic backups, I'd choose magnetic (HDD, tape). Although the costs are higher for magnetic due to the "storage equipment" for tape, and while hard disk drives are actually getting cheaper (by the minute), they'll only be truly safe if you store them properly. Pero if you use a hard drive backup, if you're not going to use it after backing up (and only for backing up), mas matibay siya theoretically and robust, lalo na pag may hardware RAID-1/5 like some high-end external enclosures. Ako I opted for the optical (DVD) backup plan kasi it's actually cheaper for smaller files (project and/or documents) and I could put ECC (error code correction) sa discs and add redundancy using multiple discs without incurring a hefty investment - kung kelan lang need gumastos. From experience kasi yung mga internal HDDs di ka talaga sure kung kelan mamamatay kahit may UPS or line conditioner ka lalo na pag laging tinatakbo. So dun ako sa ikkeep ko lang and read when needed. Footage are on miniDV/DV/DigiBeta tape naman and it's easy to duplicate and split P2/XDCAM/whatever digital storages on DVD, so DVD backups work for me. Multipurpose pa, di lang for storing, pwede rin for duplication of many copies for a client, personal use, and whatever I could think of (coasters!).

Cost per GB/MB - better ang HDD. Storage conditions - advantage ang DVD basta walang ilaw, kahit may magnetic interference (same other requirements as HDD - humidity, temperature). Flexibility - depende: small files, DVD; big files, obviously HDD. Compatibility - almost the same (DVD=HDD). Reliability - depends on media/HDD. Consistency - no assurance! (that's why I do double backups)

I also use external HDD backups for some projects that I know will need constant access to, pero I normally reduce the clutter to the essential data to be backed up and transfer it to DVD. I don't have the capital to invest in a lot of external HDDs and do redundancy on multiple units, so basically I use what works best for me depending on the situation.

Personally, I have double backups with ECC of personal data and home photos/videos on DVDs. If it's something I use everyday I burn one on cheaperbut decent media and have duplicates specifically for storage. I don't touch those in storage until my "work/constant access" disc gets unreadable.

Potentially - HDD can last longer. I still have a 500MB internal HDD (40 conductor, 1-word lang yung company na parang pangalan ng tao) na gumagana (stashed somewhere) na circa 1990s, and a few WD Caviars and Seagate drives (all 4GB or less) na gumagana pa. DVDs can easily be crushed and destroyed with overexposure to light.

[Clondalkin]

Thanks Evo69.  Im based in Tokyo kaya I have ready access to Made in Japan TDK and Thats (8x and 16x whatever is on sale).    At first, I used to buy disks with individual cases but the price merit of those in spindles of 50s is so significant, and then when you reach the hundreds, the storage space requirements of cases is too much, not to mention it's time consuming to sort through the identically dull cases when you want a particular disk.   Now I just keep burned DVD-Rs in some cutesy Elecom designed rectangular block shaped DVD holders that my wife chose, nicely filed vertically next to each other in the PC room.   Then I use external hard drives for downloaded high def stuffs larger than 4.5GB, or contents I havent watched.    Siguro I also have your sickness but not as malignant it seems.   There are times when I just cant have complete peace of mind unless I do double back-ups -and my wife cant understand that.

BTW between the 2 of us, I am the pirate.   

[evo69]

Thanks Evo69.  Im based in Tokyo kaya I have ready access to Made in Japan TDK and Thats (8x and 16x whatever is on sale).

I envy you! Honestly. Staying on topic, have you seen Taiyo Yuden DL Discs there? Or are they simply mythical?

At first, I used to buy disks with individual cases but the price merit of those in spindles of 50s is so significant, and then when you reach the hundreds, the storage space requirements of cases is too much, not to mention it's time consuming to sort through the identically dull cases when you want a particular disk. Now I just keep burned DVD-Rs in some cutesy Elecom designed rectangular block shaped DVD holders that my wife chose, nicely filed vertically next to each other in the PC room.

Or you could use something like this:

...which is ideal for storing a lot of media in a small amount of space. I'm planning to get one from CD-R King which supposedly has this (but have been unable to track down one in their stores):

...but unfortunately due to their great inventory (sarcasm), I'm left to storing my backups in Amaray DVD cases, slim jewel cases, and CD/DVD binders.

Then I use external hard drives for downloaded high def stuffs larger than 4.5GB, or contents I havent watched. Siguro I also have your sickness but not as malignant it seems. There are times when I just cant have complete peace of mind unless I do double back-ups -and my wife cant understand that.

Women... My girlfriend urges me to stop wasting my time adding ECC redundancy, saying 2 backups should be enough (and so she could spend more time with me ). Better to be safe than sorry! Do you, by any chance, use DL discs to backup your important stuff? If yes, what is your preferred brand/MID?

BTW between the 2 of us, I am the pirate.   

Lol I knew it

[Clondalkin]

I envy you! Honestly. Staying on topic, have you seen Taiyo Yuden DL Discs there? Or are they simply mythical?

No I havent.  All color variations and models of THATS that I've seen here are all SL DVD-R.    But I'll check yung mga Japanese brands of DL.  Perhaps one of them is made by Taiyo Yuden.

I have made back-up copies of every concert DVD I own using AnyDVD in 2x DVD+R DL disks para may mapanood sila sa Pilipinas (about 20 titles only).  I used Mitsubishi Kagaku Media because it's the cheapest (pero mahal pa rin).   Buti nalang walang sablay kahit isa because if there was, nakakaiyak sa mahal yung disk.

For my most valued data (family pics and home videos), multi-redundant back-ups in 2 hdds in Tokyo and 2 hdds in Manila, plus another back-up in single layer DVD-Rs, plus regular maintenance of the master C-VHS, Hi-8 and Mini DV tapes.

[evo69]

Akala ko ako lang praning Redundancy is worth it when memories are at stake The TY DLs may be a limited run, I only heard about it from CDFreaks.com - and no one has any sample of the media itself.

Mahal nga dual-layer, pero mas magmumura naman surely as the technology matures... single layer dati nung unang labas kasing mahal din nung dual layer nung unang labas... sana magmura at gumanda agad technology ng dual layer para sulit na magbackup ng DVD-Videos and mas madali magstore ng data! Ayaw mo ba i-dub yung C-VHS/Hi-8/analog tapes mo to miniDV? Wala pa namang genloss from analog-digital dub diba? Mas robust pa yung miniDV, madali amagin VHS and Hi-8 eh, from experience.

100 pesos per disc ang isang MKM003 (Made in Singapore Verbatim 8x 8.5GB DVD+R DL) dito sa Pinas, 1000 isang 10-pack spindle. Kung gagawin nilang 40-50 pesos per disc I think it's worth it to invest in DL media na... perfect kung 30-35 pesos yun, x2 lang ng regular Verbatim SL media. I think it'll stabilize in a year or two... pero baka by then I'm experimenting na with BD-R/E... At 18.5k++ a drive and 600 per 25GB disc... masakit pa talaga sa bulsa kung bibili now hehe.

Sa mga naghahanap sa Pinas 8x Verbatim DVD+R DL at Datawrite V-Mall will be the best 100 pesos you'll spend for DL media. Meron rin palang generic Ricoh sa Crystal CD-R World sa V-Mall din for 80 ata, unsure lang  kung totoo and maganda, I didn't have time to check the disc out talaga, pero Ricoh discs in my opinion are good.

Any news from Quiapo-farers? Meron bang nagbebenta ng magagandang DL dun na mas mura sa brick and mortar stores like Datawrite or CD-R King? Baka may bagsak presyo doon na gusto niyo naman i-share, kahit di dual layer pupuntahan ko hehehe.

[Clondalkin]

Evo meron palang Taiyo Yuden na DL but it's DVD-R.  Made in Japan

Yun isa pang Made in Japan na DL DVD na nakita ko is JVC.  Baka Taiyo Yuden din ang may gawa.

[evo69]

Evo meron palang Taiyo Yuden na DL but it's DVD-R.  Made in Japan

Yun isa pang Made in Japan na DL DVD na nakita ko is JVC.  Baka Taiyo Yuden din ang may gawa.

Any pricing on those DVD-R DL discs? Para I have an idea lang Thanks!

[gb]

my brothers in warez...
ano bang software gamit nyo in burning with dts/dd 5.1 or 7.1 ds

so far Adobe Primier at itong convertXtodvd palang ung ginagamit ko

Code:

ConvertXtoDVD (formerly DivXtoDVD) is a software to convert and burn your
videos to DVD. With ConvertXtoDVD and in a few clicks you can backup your
movies to DVD playable on any home DVD player.

ConvertXtoDVD supports most popular format such Xvid, MOV, VOB, Mpeg,
Mpeg4, MP4, AVI, WMV, DV and stream formats. It converts your files into
a compliant DVD Video set of files and burns it on a DVD media.

The aspect ratio can be automatically selected or forced to a specific format.
The program works for NTSC and PAL video formats and creates chapters
automatically. Multiple audio tracks are supported. Version 2 uses a completely
rewritten interface with subtitles support and a lot of new settings.

Features:

* Video formats supported: avi, divx, xvid, mov, mkv, flv, mpeg-1, mpeg2-,
mpeg-4, nsv, dvr-ms, tivo, ts, ifo, vob, asf, wmv, realmedia, rm, rmvb, ogm,
existing files from digital camcorders, TV/Sat, capture cards, etc. No external
codecs needed like avi codec download
* Create DVD menus with different templates available, possibility to add
background video, image or audio, have chapter and audio/subtitle menus
* Conversion advisor wizard, control of the conversion speed vs. quality
* Fast and quality encoder, typically less than 1 hour for converting 1 movie, and supports Multi-Core processors!
* Included burning engine with burn speed control choice of SAO or packet writing methods, supports all DVD formats
* Custom and or automatic chapter creation with markers and preview window
* Advanced file merging possibilities
* Audio formats supported internal and external: AC3, DTS, PCM, OGG, MP3, WMA and more...
* Subtitles files supported internal and external: SRT, .SUB/IDX, .SSA with
color and font selection, and supports tags like italic, bold
* Video output for video standard (NTSC, PAL), TV Screen (Widescreen 16:9,
Fullscreen 4:3) and DVD Resolution (Full D1, Boradcast D1, Half D1, SIF), or
choose automatic for all choices listed above. Also convert video from NTSC
to PAL or PAL to NTSC
* Video post processing settings like video resize-pad/cropping and de-interlacing options
* Multilingual support
* Optimized for Windows 2000 / XP / Vista

[Alfie]

I just use the convertXtoDVD for DVD conversion, then create iso via DVD Shrink or Image Burn.

I usually use ImageBurn for burning.

Other than Imageburn, of course it's Nero 8.

Now, I do'nt think the audio is affected by the burning software, it has to do with the encoding, and from experience, convertXtoDVD only encodes via DD 5.1.

Once, I was able to convert a file to DD-Ex, but I do'nt know how I did it. 

Help din...paano nga kaya.

[nerveblocker]

I have created a lot of coasters from the P20 DVD-R DL Brown Bear design & the P60 Sparkle DL from CDR-King. At first I thought it was the software (DVD Flick,NERO) then tried changing the DVD-RW drive but no success. The burning process stops midway or everything just hangs. Lately, I tried using ConvertX to DVD and I was able to do a successful burn of an mkv movie converted to DVD but had problems in playability i.e. from stuttering to total non-playability.

I only noticed these problems when burning video files >4GB in DL DVD-Rs.  Never had problems burning videos with single layer DVD-Rs/RW. But if I burn data files in these DL discs, I find no problem.

Is this an optical media  problem? Would I have better success on more expensive & branded DL discs? TIA

[Clondalkin]

I only noticed these problems when burning video files >4GB in DL DVD-Rs.  Never had problems burning videos with single layer DVD-Rs/RW. But if I burn data files in these DL discs, I find no problem.

Is this an optical media  problem? Would I have better success on more expensive & branded DL discs? TIA

I have made a complete back-up of all my concert DVDs using Mitsubishi Kagaku brand DVD+R DL and it was 100% reliable.  I actually made 2 copies for each.

[nerveblocker]

I have made a complete back-up of all my concert DVDs using Mitsubishi Kagaku brand DVD+R DL and it was 100% reliable.  I actually made 2 copies for each.

Good for you sir!  I am still in the search of a more reliable DVD-R DL here.  Experimenting is just expensive, time consuming and frustrating.   

[barrister]

Use only DVD+R for DL media. 

DVD-R is better for single layer media due to better compatibility with standalone players.  However, for dual layer media, DVD-R is unrealible.

For DL, I use only Verbatim DVD+R, manufacturer is MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media).  Never had a single coaster.

[nerveblocker]

Use only DVD+R for DL media. 

DVD-R is better for single layer media due to better compatibility with standalone players.  However, for dual layer media, DVD-R is unrealible.

For DL, I use only Verbatim DVD+R, manufacturer is MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media).  Never had a single coaster.

OK sir thanks for the advise. I'll look for them discs. BTW, is there an available DVD+RW DL discs?

[gunblade977]

Use only DVD+R for DL media. 

DVD-R is better for single layer media due to better compatibility with standalone players.  However, for dual layer media, DVD-R is unrealible.

For DL, I use only Verbatim DVD+R, manufacturer is MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media).  Never had a single coaster.

I agree with this one, I tried backing up a DL media using a DVD-R DL and always had errors but when I tried a DVD+R DL, it worked on the first try.

[barrister]

BTW, is there an available DVD+RW DL discs?

I haven't seen one yet. 


--------------------------------------------------------------




BTW, burn your DVD+R DL on ImgBurn. 

It's the best today, and it's free: http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download

Author is "Lightning UK!", the same genius who wrote the venerable DVDDecrypter program. 

Automatically sets Booktype to ROM, allows you to choose your layer break position, supports seamless layer break.

Supports IFO/BUP 32K padding, to ensure that there are 16 sectors between the end of the IFO and the start of the BUP, so that no ECC block contains any portion of an IFO file and its associated BUP.  Nero still does not have this feature until now. 

[JT]

Anyone seen a dual-layer lightscribe discs?

[evo69]

Anyone seen a dual-layer lightscribe discs?

Meron Verbatim-branded 8x, pero wala pa ata dito sa Pinas.

DVD+RW DL discs are theoretically possible, pero the reflectivity of the discs due to the materials used and the physical design of DL discs means that it will hardly reflect the laser - hindi siya kaya mabasa ng lahat ng drives. For all it's worth walang gumawa ng DVD+RW DL for mass consumption because of this problem, and I don't think they'll ever make one in the future.