PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Sources => Audio Only Sources => Topic started by: rascal101 on Oct 26, 2005 at 11:36 AM
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Just wanted to start a discussion on CD player modification ...
Just completed work on two my two entry level cd players:
1. Denon DCD-815
2. Sony CDP-M11
Changes done:
1. Bridge Rectifier, Gen Purpose -> Schottky (SB160)
- To improve headroom on the input of the linear regulator. Also reduces bulk voltage ripple
voltage due to almost zero reverse recovery time (Trr) and low forward voltage (0.7V max).
2. Bulk capacitor, Gen Purpose -> Low ESR (note 1) + decoupling capacitors
(0.33uF polyprelene + 0.47uF metallic polyster)
- To improve headroom and to reduce high frequency ripple & noise
3. E-cap, Gen Purpose -> Low ESR + decoupling capacitors (0.1uF polypropelene or
metallic polyester)
- Same as above. The additional 0.1uF polyprelene or metallic polyster are bypass capacitors
to filter unwanted high frequency noise or signals
4. Decoupling capacitors, Ceramic -> Metallic polyester or polypropelene
- Improve capacitor tolerance and improved cap performance with respect to frequency
5. IC Regulator, Mitsubishi M5290 +/-5V regulator with reset -> Use application notes
(change capacitor values)
6. Replace/Add additional circuit at output section
On Sony CDP: Sony CXD2552BQ (1 bit DAC) + Single op amp circuit -> Use application
notes (differential op-amp = NE5532, buffer + filter op-amp = OPA2132)
On Denon CD: Burr Brown PCM61P (18 bit DAC) -> Add class B push pull discrete circuit
after internal op-amp (pin 9 of IC)
- The sound is a bit warmer after this exercise
7. Differential filter, Nonexistent -> 1uF polypropelene
- Put in parallel with AC inlet to reduce input AC distortion
- Updated 12/12/05, make sure to put a 100k 1/10W discharge resistor parallel to the capacitor
8. DC blocking capacitor, 47uF e-cap -> Used recommendation of Walt Jung on "Picking
Capacitors" article. See note 2.
On Sony CD player:
All connected in parallel: 2x 1uF metallic polyester + 0.22uF polyprelene capacitor
On Denon CD player:
Correction 11/2/05 ... should be 2x220uF ... load resistor 10k
2x 220uF low esr cap in series in parallel to 0.22uF polyprelene series with 0.47uF metallic
polyester capacitor. Placed load resistor of 10k to ground after the output decoupling capacitor.
9. Resistors, Carbon film -> Metal film or Metal Oxide film
- Resistor performance with respect to temp is more stable. Parasitics is better on metal film
or metal oxide film. See note 3.
10. Output filter cap (on RCA jack), 1 nF -> 3.3nF
- Slightly lower bandwidth to elimate high frequency noise
11. Whenever possible, I used metallic polyester caps to replace low cap value electrolytic caps.
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Update 11/2/05
Oops ... nearly forgot
12. Removed all output muting transistors and series resistors going to L/R output RCA jacks.
Update 03/02/08
Font, spelling and slight wording adjustments.
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I didn't modify the my cd clock on the Sony CD player due to space limitations.
Wanted to try the clock ICs I got from Phaselink Semiconductor ... sayang ...
How does it sound ... Wala na pong sibilance (dahil sa 3.3nF at mga bypass caps sa electrolytic caps),
iyung piano ay pianong piano ang tunog, malinis at walang background noise (dahil sa low esr at
bypass caps), lahat ng instrumento naririnig ko na kahit sabay sabay sila (based on my observation
this is due to the schottky rectifier + DAC modification based on application note) ...
Pictures (modified Sony CDP-M11)
Top View
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/th_top_view.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/?action=view¤t=top_view.jpg)
Top Tilted View
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/th_top_tilt_view3.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/?action=view¤t=top_tilt_view3.jpg)
Bottom View
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/th_bottom_view.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/?action=view¤t=bottom_view.jpg)
Headphone (modified op-amp fm TI RC4558 to OPA2227)
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/th_headphone.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/?action=view¤t=headphone.jpg)
Changed components
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/th_changed_components.jpg) (http://s33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/?action=view¤t=changed_components.jpg)
Clarifications or corrections on the above are accepted.
Notes:
1. Low ESR capacitors
- Nichicon "PM" or "HD" series, Rubycon "ZL" series, Sanyo "OSCON" series
2. Picking capacitors article
http://home.comcast.net/~wjungieee/wsb/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf
http://home.comcast.net/~wjungieee/wsb/Picking_Capacitors_2.pdf
3. Sound of resistors
http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/theory10.htm
4. Capacitor preferences in order:
a. 275Vac X2 polypropelene cap (0.22uF, 0.33uF, 1uF)
b. 250Vac Y2 polypropelene cap (1nF, 2.2nF, 3.3nF, 0.1uF)
c. 400V metallic polyester (0.1uF, 1uF)
d. 63V metallic polyester (1 to 10nF)
5. Updated 06/29/06 - the addition of the polyester or polypropelene caps in parallel with the e-caps
ensures that high frequency signals are coupled to ground. At 10KHz and up, e-caps are typically
at 1/2 of their capacitor value at 100Hz. This means that cut-off frequency extends beyond what
it is designed for which results in high frequency signals just blowing by them.
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sir post nmn ng pics...
see some other tweaks you can do to your cd player..
:D enjoy!!! :D
http://www.audiotweaks.com/collection_ascend.htm
http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5538
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewforum.php?forum=52&start=60&select_page_number=3
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.kameson.com/audio/CDP-555ESJ.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D555esj%2Bsony%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.kameson.com/audio/CDP-555ESJ.htm&prev=/search%3Fq%3D555esj%2Bsony%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
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Rascal101,
Nice work but I'm wondering aren't those ELNA caps good enough? Also are those gold or (is it yellow?) caps polystyrene or ordinary mylar?
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Sir Garp,
The caps are yellow and they are metallic polyster. The white ones are metallic polyster too. The dirty white colored caps are polysterene (located at the solder side of the PCB).
I wanted to use polysterene but because of their massive size I had contented myself with putting metallic polyster.
The Elna caps are good but since my Sony CD player has been around since 1991 the Elna caps had to go. The life of electrolytic caps are rated for about 5 years only (assuming 24x7 operation). Also, I had higher rated caps 105degC rated compared to the Elna caps which are rated 85degC.
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Rascal101,
Thanks for sharing your experience. Keep it up :)
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Rascal101,
Thanks for the information, looking forward in getting more tweaks from you.
More power!
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BTW, kagabi pagdating ng bahay may bumabagabag sa aking isipan dahil kulang na kulang iyung base nung Sony CD player. Kagabi naalala ko 2.2uF lang pala ang blocking cap. Iyun kasi nakalagay sa application notes. So, dinagdagan ko ng isang Oscon 180uF/16V. Parang may kulang pa rin ... Nagyayaya ng matulog si Misis ... Gusto ko pa namang dagdagan pa ... Sige na nga ... bukas ...
Pagdating ng 5:00am gumising ako at dinagdagan ko ng isa pang Oscon 180uF/16V. Kulang pa rin ... Ano ba iyan ??? Sir Gutchy tama ba ... mag parallel na lang ng choke (5mH) sa capacitor. May gain at phase anomaly kasi around 120Hz ... ay ... mababa naman pala iyung gain ~5mdB ... puwede na ... mababa rin iyung frequency. Mamayang gabi uli ...
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Pre, never use an Os-con as a coupling (dc blocking) capacitor.
It's listed as one of the prohibited use because of the high leakage current.
Basahin mo ito:
http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/electronic_components/capacitors/os_con/downloads/oscon_instructions.pdf
Nasa item number 2) ng mga prohibited circuits.
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Thanks Sir Bruno,
Alinsunod sa study ni Walt Jung, balik ako sa mod parehas ng Denon ko, 2x 120uF/16V (Nichicon PM) in series, 100K resistor pull-up to +5V rail from the +polarity of the caps. Pwede na sigurong i-reduce iyung inductor. Tignan ko sa Simetrix.
Cheers,
Rascal101
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Correction ... went with 2x 220uF/16V Nichicon PM in series then placed load resistor (after the caps) of 10k to gnd. Then, placed a 4.3mH inductor across the back to back e-caps. Much better ... same performance as the Denon with added base.
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rascal101,
bro, sent you a pm. thanks :D
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Correction again ... taas din pala leakage current nung Nichicon PM ... ah mas maganda ... Nichicon HD. Baklas uli ... BTW, low ESR -caps normally havehigh leakage currents. I guess the trick is to balance ESR and leakage current.
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Settle na ako ... back to back Rubycon ZL 330uF/16V in parallel with 5mH inductor ... Ayyy ... salamat ...
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Sir Rascal, do you have a capacitance meter that could measure to the pF range? Just need to match some capacitors for a feedback loop. Baka pwedeng makisukat sukat.
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Oki! Probably on thursday. Tenx!
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Napasobra ng pagpapaganda ...
Found out the hard way that increasing op-amp gain from 1.4 to 1.7 causes clipping. Originally, feedback res = 19k, input res = 14k. This was changed to feedback res = 24k, input res = unchanged.
Rascal101
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The problem with large value electrolytics is the leakage current and the difficulty to discharge. This is due to the high dielectric constant on these parts. That is why it is very important to place a loading resistor from 1k to 10k as indicated in the Picking Capacitors guide from Walt Jung.
This I believe is the reason why ssss are extended in typical SS amps which are normally capacitively coupled ;D
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Anybody? Where can I find WIMA caps with value 0.01uf & 0.1uf aside from RS components & Farnell. Lets say any drop-in place like RAON? Thanks.
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You can buy metallic polyster or metallic polyprelene caps at Eleshop, Raon. Not sure if the brand is Wima. If its another brand, I believe performance should be more or less the same.
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Based on my experience in this hobby, I think it is best to reserve comments unless verified by an independent observer - one who more or less isn't as enthusiastic. For example, in general, if your wife makes an unsolicited comment on how real your audio system sounds, that's the best comment of all.
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, if your wife makes an unsolicited comment on how real your audio system sounds, that's the best comment of all.
With matching WAF
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I have already donated the Denon DCD-815 a few months back only the Sony CDP-M11 remains. To those who wish to go down this route, this path is fraught with danger however, for those who are brave enough the experience can both be frustrating and fulfilling.
After all the mods I have done all I can say is this type approach has been tried by numerous individuals and the yield is probably not as good as you want it to be. So don't aim too high unless you plan a complete re-design. :)
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Here are my tips for those planning to tweak their cdps:
1. Enjoy your unmodded cdp as much as you can while taking note of its strengths and weaknesses.
2. Plan ahead and eliminate the guesswork by having a schematic. If a schematic is not available, tracing the path (audio, power, etc.) is the final option.
3. Do one mod at a time and note the difference (got better or worse?). Never try to blitzkrieg your player and wonder which made the improvement or made it sound worse or made it not work anymore.
4. Use as much reference music as possible. Don't repeat my mistake of using only one track as reference then realizing my other cds sounded crappy.
Happy tweaking.
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I wonder what the Playstation would sound if similar mod is applied as above ::)
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Here's a nice article about modifying CD players.
Modifying my Sony SCD-1 SACD player
by Roger Gordon
Modifying CD players has become a major cottage industry in the last couple of years. Quite a few individuals and companies modify and upgrade the performance of the more popular players. The buzz on the street is that these mods, while they can be somewhat pricey, are worth it. I like to get champagne sound on a beer budget, so I was intrigued by reading Ye Olde Editor's articles in Positive Feedback Online (Issues 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6) on modifying his Sony SCD-1. According to him, you can take a used mass market CD player, have it modified, and presto—world class sound for an affordable price.
In the spring of 2003, I had owned a ShanLing CDT-100 for about a year. Yes, substituting NOS Western Electric tubes for the Chinese 6P3s made a noticeable improvement in the bass, but even with the WE tubes, the ShanLing was not the best CD player on the block. I knew I had to upgrade, but to what? There was no consensus in the audiophile press as to the best CD player, and adding to the uncertainty were the format wars. Was SACD, DVD-A, or something else the wave of the future? In uncertain times, sometimes the best thing to do is to temporize.
While temporizing, I was not idle. I visited the websites of all the major CD player modifiers. I talked to audiophiles that had had mods done. I spoke directly to some of the modifiers. I learned that modifications usually improved the sound of Redbook CDs more than they improved the sound of SACDs. Since I had hundreds of CDs and no SACDs, and since CDs are cheaper and more readily available, upgrading a CD/SACD player sounded like the proper approach. At that time, the Sony SCD-1 or SCD-777ES was the player that most modifiers liked to work on. The SCD-1 was more expensive at $5000 versus $3500 (list price) for the 777ES, but several modifiers told me that the transport on the SCD-1 was much better, and that given the choice they would rather own a modified SCD-1. With that advice in mind, I logged onto Audiogon.com and bought a used SCD-1 for $2500.
When it arrived, I immediately placed it into my system. Even stock, the SCD-1 sounded better than my ShanLing. The music came out of a blacker background. There was more authority in the bass. The music was smoother, and it seemed to flow more naturally than it did with the Shanling. Listening to the SCD-1 was simply more enjoyable. This was reassuring, of course, since the ShanLing lists for $2000 versus the SCD-1's $5000. After listening to the SCD-1 for a few days, and making sure that everything was working as it should, I packed up the SCD-1 and shipped it to Dan Wright at Modwright in Portland, Oregon.
I had talked to Dan a couple of times on the phone. Based on our discussions, I decided to have him do his Absolute Truth Mod—his top-of-the-line modification. This involves putting in multiple DACs in parallel, adding Bybee filters, upgrading various parts, and replacing the output op-amps with vacuum tubes and an outboard power supply. I also asked Dan to make some additional mods that he only does on request. I had him replace the existing clock with a SuperClock II, replace the clock power supply with the SuperClock II power supply, and do the Richard Kern Transport Mod as discussed by Ye Olde Editor (in PFO Issue 6). The transport mod involves replacing all of the capacitors in the transport section with Black Gates.
It took a while to get my unit back, as the arrival of Dan's first child put a few extra demands on his time. He was also trying to get his new preamp ready for VSAC 2003. I had been warned by numerous people not to expect too much of the modded unit right out of the box, as the Black Gate capacitors take at least 300 hours to break in. I did not keep a logbook, but my guess is that it took at least 400 hours before the unit really started to sound its best.
What miracles had the modifications wrought? I had been expecting an improvement in sound quality similar to the one I heard when going from the ShanLing to the stock SCD-1. What I heard from the modded SCD-1, right out of the box, was startling. I started playing my test CDs, the ones I take to the CES, the ones I knew (or thought I knew) backwards and forwards. What I heard from each of these Red Book CDs was much more low-level detail coming out of a much blacker background. The soundstage was much deeper and wider. Instruments were more clearly fixed in space. Singers were more three-dimensional, and there was more of a feeling of them being present in the room. This was music. This was FUN!
I have now been listening to the modded unit for a little over six months. I have not noticed any change in its sound for over two months, so it appears to be burned in, finally. The improvements that I heard that first night are still there, only better, but the most important thing for me is that the modded unit plays music. While I confess to being an audiophile, I am a music lover first. If a piece of equipment does not let the heart and soul of the music come through, it is not something that I want to own. With the ShanLing, I would play a couple of CDs and then go back to playing vinyl. With the Modwright-modded SCD-1, I play CDs for eight or ten hours and don't even think about switching to vinyl. My toes tap to the music, I play my air guitar, and tears run down my cheeks when I hear an exquisite passage. I did not do this with either the ShanLing or the stock SCD-1. The mods turned the SCD-1 from a mechanical sound reproducer into a musical instrument.
How does the modded SCD-1 stack up against the competition? Unfortunately, I don't have a lineup of modded CD players to which I can compare my unit, nor do I have access to the Meitner. However, I do remember what I heard at CES 2004. Making judgments based on what you hear at audiophile shows is dangerous, but with that caveat, I can recall only one room in which I thought the CD player might be better than my modded SCD-1. The transport/DAC in this room appeared to be extracting more information from my test CDs, but the combo, which was just coming out of prototype, was going to cost between $24,000 and $30,000. For that kind of money, I hope it sounds better than my player! There was only one other room in which I thought the CD player was comparable to my modded SCD-1, but a close look revealed it to be an SCD-1 with the Modwright Absolute Truth Mod!
Is the Sony SCD-1 with the Absolute Truth Mod digital nirvana? Hardly. The best two-channel stereo reproduction that I have ever heard was also at CES 2004, in the deHavilland room, which was using a modified Ampex tape recorder to play prerecorded four-track 1/4-inch tapes. That room, which had spectacular sound, showed how much improvement digital reproduction still requires to equal the best analog sound.
Okay, the modded SCD-1 is not as good as reel-to-reel tape. Is it better than vinyl? It's an interesting question. I am a vinyl guy. I own over 6000 LPs and only 1000 CDs. On the other hand, I do not have a world-class vinyl playback system. My VPI HW-19 MkIV is only a C-class turntable. My heavily modified ET 2.5 tonearm is only B class. My Benz Micro Reference cartridge was B class when I bought it years ago, and it has probably slipped to C class with the advent of new, improved cartridges. Only my Herron Audio VTPH-1MC phono stage is A class. How does this decent, but not exceptional vinyl playback system compare to the modded SCD-1? The answer is—it depends. If all you are interested in is sound, the modded SCD-1 is better, but to my ears, my modest analog setup does a far better job of conveying the emotion of music. If I want to experience a live performance in my living room, I play vinyl. The modded SCD-1 is a distant second. Sorry, digi-guys.
Am I sorry that I bought the modded SCD-1? Not at all. I feel that the $6100 was money well spent. Based on what I have heard at various hi-fi shows, I now have a CD player that performs with the best, regardless of price. More importantly, the modded SCD-1 makes listening to CDs very enjoyable. It conveys the emotion of the music, which the ShanLing and the stock SCD-1 did not do. It does not matter to me that vinyl sounds better, as there are thousands of CDs that will never be released on vinyl, and I now have a way to hear and truly enjoy them. If you enjoy listening to music, but don't enjoy listening to CDs, you really should consider modding your CD player. Roger Gordon
Used Sony SCD-1
$2500
Absolute Truth Mod
3000
SuperClock II with power supply
337
Transport Mod
250
Shipping
55
Total
$6142
ModWright
1935 N.E. Cramer St.
Portland, OR 97211
TEL: 503. 288. 5159
email address: [email protected]
web address: www.modwright.com
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Just want to ask what good mod can be made on a Sony CDP 338 ESD. Although I am pretty satisfied with it, I am wondering what improvements can be made by mods.
Thanks.
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You can start by changing the output coupling caps to low ESR caps like Rubycon ZL. Use same capacitance values. As much as possible use same voltage if not use something higher.
If you really want more improvement, you can use Polyester or Polypropelene caps. Pls refer to below links for details/analysis
http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_1.pdf
http://waltjung.org/PDFs/Picking_Capacitors_2.pdf
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Using Sony playstation as CD player
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=862fb3047aceed927f8f7ea1f6c21312&threadid=31123&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
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Just want to ask what good mod can be made on a Sony CDP 338 ESD. Although I am pretty satisfied with it, I am wondering what improvements can be made by mods.
Thanks.
i've modified quite a number of CDP's.. The most significant mod u can do that will really improve the sound quality of your cdp is replace the opamp(s).. opa627/637, opa2107 and lm4562 are one of my fav opamps..
here are some pics of the CDP's i've modified
SONY CDP-228ESD - http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Sony%20CDP-228ESD%20Mod/
SONY CDP-227ESD - http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Sony%20CDP-227ESD%20Mods/
Marantz CD-63SE - http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Marantz%20CD-63%20SE%20mod/
Marantz CD-4000 - http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Marantz%20CD-4000%20Mods/
;D
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Ferds,
Wow dami mo na palang na modify na CDP.
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hehe yup madami na nga yung iba hindi ko na-picture..
meron ako mino-modify ngayon.. Denon DCD-2800AL and DCD-1650GL :o
thanks
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Ok yan.
Ako naman bago kong project Sony Playstation.
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what improvements would changing the opamps bring.
How much would it cost (parts only)
Any preferred brands
Sorry for the numerous newbie questions.
Thank
Chito M.
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what improvements would changing the opamps bring.
How much would it cost (parts only)
Any preferred brands
Sorry for the numerous newbie questions.
Thank
Chito M.
sir rpm,
my pioneer cdp (surplus) was modified by ferds, he basically replaced the opamps (he also installed sockets for the opamps so that replacing them would be easier, no soldering needed in the future :) . a more detailed sound was achieved with the mod, as i have mentioned in the other thread i even had to lower the volume on my sub. i don't really know how much would it cost to mod a cdp because ferds did it for free (yes, free parts and home service!). hope this helps, cheers!
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hehe yup madami na nga yung iba hindi ko na-picture..
meron ako mino-modify ngayon.. Denon DCD-2800AL and DCD-1650GL :o
thanks
Grabe, minodify mo pa, i heard a 2800 before and for me, halos kumpletos rekados na ang tunog nito :o :o :o :)
ayus ka bro :D
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what improvements would changing the opamps bring.
How much would it cost (parts only)
Any preferred brands
Sorry for the numerous newbie questions.
Thank
Chito M.
If you go for Burr Brown op-amps and your CDP uses 4, make sure to allocate Php 2k. The good ones that I've tried are the OPA2132, OPA2134, OPA2604 and OPA2107.
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Even high end CDPs have constraints as far as budget goes so it is not necessarily true that all components use premium parts. Further, it also isn't necessarily true that using premium parts brings out the best sound. In this regard, replacing stock op-amps with better op-amps does not necessarily mean better sound. You really have to do some matching to find out which sounds best. I found out that through experience that replacing the differential, buffer and filter stage of the output op-amp section does not bring out the best sound. Using NE5532 at differential and good op-amps like OPA2604 brings out better results than fully replacing them with OPA2604.
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Sa wakas na-mod ko rin ang aking Denon DCD-1650GL.. Nabili ko to for 3.5K sa laspinas sa tulong ni Jimbo..
Heto po ung ginawa kong modifications:
1. Replaced all the opamps with OPA2132, OPA2134 and LME49710
2. Removed/bypass output coupling caps
3. Replaced some caps with Sanyo Oscon caps and Panasonic FM caps - low ESR
4. Replaced the Lens with KSS-210A (original lens - KSS-150A)
5. Added IEC with Fuse power entry
6. Added lots of decoupling caps
future mods: Clock upgrade, Schottky diodes, replace regulators, tube output.. etc....
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/DSC00150.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/DSC01270.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/DSC01284.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/DSC01290.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/DSC01288.jpg)
See more pics here: http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/
;D
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Next in line... Denon DCD-2800AL.. ;D ;D
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-2800AL/ABCD0020.jpg)
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sir yung marantz sa ibabaw pogi rin, modified na din yan?
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sir yung marantz sa ibabaw pogi rin, modified na din yan?
Ahh Marantz CD-63 SE sya.. yes sir modified na rin sya.. ;D pati ung Konzert amp.. hehe
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Marantz%20CD-63%20SE%20mod/DSC00493.jpg)
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Sa wakas na-mod ko rin ang aking Denon DCD-1650GL.. Nabili ko to for 3.5K sa laspinas sa tulong ni Jimbo..
sir ang layo pala ang nararating nyo para sa gears nyo, imagine from pampanga to las pinas :o
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sir ang layo pala ang nararating nyo para sa gears nyo, imagine from pampanga to las pinas :o
hehe matagal na ako naghahanap ng 1650 kya kahit malayo ok lang.. ;)
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Please excuse my ignorance - but these all sound like rocket science to me :P
So, you guys basically change some innards of any cdp to make it sound/perform better? Sorry, as I'm not really adept into these things, but certainly would be interested to learn more :)
Consequently, I'm eyeing a Bnew Marantz cd5001 cdp which states that it has a Cirrus Logic CS4392 DAC 24-bit/192Khz and would like to ask the experts here of what possible "mods" could be done to this player & to what effects this will add to the cdp?
While I do intend to run out its warranty for a year first before even considering to have it modified, still would like to know more....you'll never know, baka mangati eh ;D
Any info would be greatly appreciated - thanks! ;)
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Ang madaling i-modify e iyung output analog section. Puwedeng lagyan mo ng 8 pin DIP IC socket doon sa kinalalagyan ng DIP op-amp para tanggal kabit ka na lang -> Op-amps rolling ... puwedeng mong paglaruan mga iba't ibang klase eg OPA2132, OPA2107, OPA2604 etc etc. Bili ka ng mamahaling socket para hindi obvious na may ginawa ka.
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Alexan Megamall, Alexan SM North Edsa, Deeco Farmers o
RS Components (Stock No: 83-115)
- 8 way turned pin DIL socket,0.3in pitch
(http://img-asia.electrocomponents.com/images/C402311-01.jpg)
RS Web Helpline: 632 888 4030 or [email protected] (9am-6pm Monday - Friday)
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Sana mayron tayong listening session para maka dinig naman kami ng "turbo" cdps ::)
maybe some guys can bring their stock units to compare with the "tuned" versions para makita natin ang overall effect, kanya kanya na lang dala ng "mamam" ;D
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Ang madaling i-modify e iyung output analog section. Puwedeng lagyan mo ng 8 pin DIP IC socket doon sa kinalalagyan ng DIP op-amp para tanggal kabit ka na lang -> Op-amps rolling ... puwedeng mong paglaruan mga iba't ibang klase eg OPA2132, OPA2107, OPA2604 etc etc. Bili ka ng mamahaling socket para hindi obvious na may ginawa ka.
Unfortunately sir SOIC po ang mga opamps ng CD5001. http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74890&highlight=cd5001
Originally posted by Max the Great
I changed the OPAMPS of my CD5001 for AD8066 ones.
The sound has improved a lot!
The high is not so sharp but silky soft.
Better stereo image.
More depth in the music (music fills the room).
There's more "punch" in the music. Probably because there's more depth.
;D
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Ooops, sorry. Hindi ko na-check kung ano gamit. Pasensya na. ;D
Mahirap pala magkabit unless marunong ka ng desoldering technique sa SOIC.
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Ahh Marantz CD-63 SE sya.. yes sir modified na rin sya.. ;D pati ung Konzert amp.. hehe
pati ba naman yung konzert amp modified din? hehehe modify mo naman yung sony 333es ko sa holy week baka wala ka masyadong trabaho
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pati ba naman yung konzert amp modified din? hehehe modify mo naman yung sony 333es ko sa holy week baka wala ka masyadong trabaho
sure bro.. sabi ko naman sayo kahit anong araw pwede natin mods mga toys mo.. ;)
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pwede ba magpa mod ng denon dcd1400? :)
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pwede ba magpa mod ng denon dcd1400? :)
sure... pero di ko alam kung kelan luwas ko manila...not unless punta ka angeles.. ;D
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sir ferds, so yung marantz cd5001 hindi tweakable? is it ok as it is? baka naman mas maganda pa yung moded mo na marantz cd 63se keysa dito?
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sir ferds, so yung marantz cd5001 hindi tweakable? is it ok as it is? baka naman mas maganda pa yung moded mo na marantz cd 63se keysa dito?
dont worry bro pwdeng mod yan.. ;) di lang katulad ng ibang cdp na DIP or thru-hole ung mga opamps kya mdaling palitan.. kung gusto mo mod yan, meron ako tools dito for SMD soldering/desoldering.. and mga SMD opamps like OPA2107AU, AD8620, etc..
then compare natin sa mga cdp ko.. hehe
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Kahit soldering iron, pwede ng pang desolder ng smd. Punuin mo lang ng tinga iyung magkaibang paa ng IC (pins 1 to 4 at pins 5 to 8). Then, initin mo iyung pins 1 to 4 then pins 5 to 8 alternately. After about 2 or 3 alternates itulak mo na iyung smd IC, maaalis na iyon. Same process for smd resistors and caps.
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Kahit soldering iron, pwede ng pang desolder ng smd. Punuin mo lang ng tinga iyung magkaibang paa ng IC (pins 1 to 4 at pins 5 to 8). Then, initin mo iyung pins 1 to 4 then pins 5 to 8 alternately. After about 2 or 3 alternates itulak mo na iyung smd IC, maaalis na iyon. Same process for smd resistors and caps.
ganyan din ginagwa ko dati :)... speaking of SMD soldering... heto tutorial video... http://www.curiousinventor.com/guides/Surface_Mount_Soldering/101
;D
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Ok iyung SMD soldering site na ito ah :)
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Ok iyung SMD soldering site na ito ah :)
yup.. da best yan sa nakita kong tutorial.. hehe
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Tamang tama yan tutorial na yan sa paghinang ng 0402.
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sir ferds and sir rascal, what's your take on a pioneer pd-2000?
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Looks like a nice project for modifications:
http://www.audio-heritage.jp/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/pd-2000.html
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Looks like a nice project for modifications:
http://www.audio-heritage.jp/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/pd-2000.html
sir magkano kaya abutin ang mod nito? ang lens ba nito mahal?
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sir magkano kaya abutin ang mod nito? ang lens ba nito mahal?
depende kung ano ung papalitan or anong mod gagawin.. PWY1006 ang model ng lens ng PD-2000.. di ko sure kung meron locally..
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thanks for all the input sirs, i hope hindi kyo magsawa ;D mukhang madami pa akong questions ??? nangangailangan ng answers from you masters ;D
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congrats ferds! sa wakas tapos na ang project, sulit ang biyahe!!!
Sa wakas na-mod ko rin ang aking Denon DCD-1650GL.. Nabili ko to for 3.5K sa laspinas sa tulong ni Jimbo..
See more pics here: http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i297/ferds_calma/Denon%20DCD-1650GL/
;D
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congrats ferds! sa wakas tapos na ang project, sulit ang biyahe!!!
yup sulit na sulit.. sya yung gamit ko lagi ngayon.. o wala bang bago? ;) ;D
thanks
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Tamang tama yan tutorial na yan sa paghinang ng 0402.
Tapos 0201 next 01005 hahaha, Rascal 0402 pa lang halos di mo na makita, galing naman!
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Tapos 0201 next 01005 hahaha, Rascal 0402 pa lang halos di mo na makita, galing naman!
hehehe ... itong hobby nating ito kahit medyo hirap basta masaya naman ok lang. Kakahiya naman sa mga mahilig sa hobby na ito kahit minimal alam sa electronics e kinakaya iyung pag hi hinang hinang. Iba talaga kapag inspired e ;D ;D ;D
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hehehe ... itong hobby nating ito kahit medyo hirap basta masaya naman ok lang. Kakahiya naman sa mga mahilig sa hobby na ito kahit minimal alam sa electronics e kinakaya iyung pag hi hinang hinang. Iba talaga kapag inspired e ;D ;D ;D
sir curious lang ako, ikaw, si sir ferds at others, by this time, are you all wearing eyeglasses with thick lenses na kakahinang ng mods? ;D
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hehehe ... itong hobby nating ito kahit medyo hirap basta masaya naman ok lang. Kakahiya naman sa mga mahilig sa hobby na ito kahit minimal alam sa electronics e kinakaya iyung pag hi hinang hinang. Iba talaga kapag inspired e ;D ;D ;D
Kasi ang mga Audiophile gusto may kinakalikot hehehe. Imagine nagpalit ka lang ng OPamp parang brand new na naman, I mean you need to review all your CD reference to hear the difference, next week mga capacitors naman, then mga resistor naman. Parang TT yan dami rin gagawin bago tumunog hehehe. Naalala ko 'yung CD palayer ko lagi nakabukas mga parts kasi installment dumating di ako makatiis haha.
By the way most of the audiophile grade na CD palyer purely manual like TT para marami kinanalikot.
More power sa mga CD tweakers, ingatan nyo lang ESD, make sure humawak muna kayo sa metal tube ng mga gripo nyo para ma discharge kayo when handling OpAmp or magbubukas ng player
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sir curious lang ako, ikaw, si sir ferds at others, by this time, are you all wearing eyeglasses with thick lenses na kakahinang ng mods? ;D
Mawalang galang lang Sir DB10, hindi pa makapal iyung salamin ko ;D Ewan ko sa iba ;D ;D ;D
Hindi iyung mata nahihirapan kung hindi ang mga kamay at katawan dahil minsan natutusok ng soldering iron o napapatakan ng tingga :) Ewan ko kung bakit lagi akong may "urge" na magkalikot e ;)
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yup sulit na sulit.. sya yung gamit ko lagi ngayon.. o wala bang bago? ;) ;D
thanks
di pa ako bumalik sa store since nasira yung amp ko, pero balitaan kita kung makakapunta ako this week,
cd player pa rin ba gusto mo or speakers?
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Curious lang po, puede bang i-mod ang non-tube na CD player into a tube cd player. Kung puede papaano.
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Mawalang galang lang Sir DB10, hindi pa makapal iyung salamin ko ;D Ewan ko sa iba ;D ;D ;D
Hindi iyung mata nahihirapan kung hindi ang mga kamay at katawan dahil minsan natutusok ng soldering iron o napapatakan ng tingga :) Ewan ko kung bakit lagi akong may "urge" na magkalikot e ;)
si ferds batang-bata, walang gamit na glasses, ang bilis mag-solder!
kaliwa't kanan, soldering iron at yung pang-higop ng tingga (ano ba tawag dun?).
:)
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Any comments on which current ss cdp in the market today is the most "tweakable"?
1. Marantz cd5001 (5th Ave)
2. Cambridge Audio Azurs (5th Ave)
3. Denon DCD500ae (Kinetic)
4. Tangent cdp -50/100 (Acoustic Dimension)
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si ferds batang-bata, walang gamit na glasses, ang bilis mag-solder!
kaliwa't kanan, soldering iron at yung pang-higop ng tingga (ano ba tawag dun?).
:)
Desoldering tool ang tawag sa pang higop ng tingga.
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Desoldering tool ang tawag sa pang higop ng tingga.
mga sirs, ingat kyo at lead is dangerous for your health ;)
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Curious lang po, puede bang i-mod ang non-tube na CD player into a tube cd player. Kung puede papaano.
Puwede iyun, tube buffer sa may analog output.
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mga sirs, ingat kyo at lead is dangerous for your health ;)
Then use Pb Free Solder para tuloy ang ligaya, medyo mataas lang ang Melting Temp kaya sometimes my reliability problem. Sa industry medyo nagkaproblema dahila ang mga semiconductor ready sa PB-Free pero mga board hindi yata. Pb Free are using High Temp Process ;D
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Already implemented - on electrical/electronic products going to Erurope, they should be RoHS compliant - this means that all mech and elec components must conform with the requirements.
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Then use Pb Free Solder para tuloy ang ligaya, medyo mataas lang ang Melting Temp kaya sometimes my reliability problem. Sa industry medyo nagkaproblema dahila ang mga semiconductor ready sa PB-Free pero mga board hindi yata. Pb Free are using High Temp Process ;D
Use Mundorf solder its lead free, with silver content and low melting. Problem solve ;D
Cheers
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Mga sir,
tonong ko lang po kung saan ako makakakuha ng Fairchild soft recovery diodes? Baka may alam kayo kung saan. :) Wala din po kasi akong alam sa circuits, pano ko po malaman alin ang output caps? Also, ang pagkabit po ba ng capacitors may positive negative or kahit balibaliktad yung paa ok lang?
Pasyensia na po walang alam sa electronics e. ;D
Jason
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Mga sir,
tonong ko lang po kung saan ako makakakuha ng Fairchild soft recovery diodes? Baka may alam kayo kung saan. :) Wala din po kasi akong alam sa circuits, pano ko po malaman alin ang output caps? Also, ang pagkabit po ba ng capacitors may positive negative or kahit balibaliktad yung paa ok lang?
Pasyensia na po walang alam sa electronics e. ;D
Jason
Kung pang cd player, recommend ko ang Schottky 11DQ10 (100v/1.1amp). The best i tried and since been using for low voltage/ampere diode upgrade. Schotkky is better than ultrafast/soft recovery diodes.
Para malaman mo kung saan ang output caps ng CD player, trace mo from the interconnect output, the nearest cap. Normally ang gamit na output caps ay non-polar o pwedeng baliktaran ang kabit.
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Thanks sir edwin. :) thank you for the items that you sent me. Very smooth transaction.
How much would the Schotkky cost? Do you think we have it here? Might get a few more items from you. Just need to consolidate everything para hindi sayang shipping cost. ;D
Thanks again.
Jason
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Thanks sir edwin. :) thank you for the items that you sent me. Very smooth transaction.
How much would the Schotkky cost? Do you think we have it here? Might get a few more items from you. Just need to consolidate everything para hindi sayang shipping cost. ;D
Thanks again.
Jason
Ano bang cd palyer ang balak mong upgrade? Maybe you could take some inard photos para masilip.
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Will do sir, will email it to you.
Thanks.
Jason
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Will do sir, will email it to you.
Thanks.
Jason
Jason, my advise learn the basic of electronics first you must know the different Capacitors and their functions, this includes Diodes and resistor color coding (anyway if you have tester especially digital no need color coding heheh).
Then ask the experts here what are the components to replace/add which has great impact after tweaking. Below are my short list:
1. Change OpAmp
2. Power supply (diodes, Capacitors)
3. Upgrading the capacitors & Resistors (if needed) of the Audio circuits path of your Player
Soldering is also an important during tweakin, you might damage the board or the components you want to install/replace
Happy Tweaking
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Jason, my advise learn the basic of electronics first you must know the different Capacitors and their functions, this includes Diodes and resistor color coding (anyway if you have tester especially digital no need color coding heheh).
Then ask the experts here what are the components to replace/add which has great impact after tweaking. Below are my short list:
1. Change OpAmp
2. Power supply (diodes, Capacitors)
3. Upgrading the capacitors & Resistors (if needed) of the Audio circuits path of your Player
Soldering is also an important during tweakin, you might damage the board or the components you want to install/replace
Happy Tweaking
Thanks sir. :) Will do.
One more question, do tube CDPs use op amps? Isn't it that op amps are used in SS?
thanks for your help.
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Thanks sir. :) Will do.
One more question, do tube CDPs use op amps? Isn't it that op amps are used in SS?
thanks for your help.
In my understanding there are two types of Tube CD player: One is without Opamp and using tube directly into the audio signal and the other one is using Tube buffer, which are connected after the opamp these can be installed outboard like MF X-10D and X-10V3. Some of our friend here are making improved circuits of X-10D (DIY) or Tube Buffer.
If you still have space for your CD player you can put a CD buffer inside to minimize the use of Interconnects.
I believe Jolida CD player doesn't have Opamp while the Cayin, Consonance are using Tube buffer. Happy DIY'ng.
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Mga Sir,
Anybody know where I could get OPA2228? or AD823? and the adaptor needed cause mine is soldered directly to the board.
Thanks.
Jason
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If you're using Plastic DIP ICs, you can buy at Alexan or Deeco.
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thanks sir. :)
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Anybody know where I could get LM4562 op amp? Would also like to ask if i could use the AD8066 SOIC8 pin on a DIP 8 socket. Sorry for the newbie question. Haven't seen a SOIC8 op amp kasi. :)
Thanks.
Jason
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My CDP now undergoing surgery. ;D Planning to change my Power supply diode. The current one is MUR460. The one I got is a different kind. It has 3 pins and is rectangular with metal on top. Can I use these in exchange to the MUR460? How do I install? Do I cut off the middle or do I connect the middle to one of the sides? If connecting, which side? Start of the arrow or at the end of the arrow?
Sorry don't know much about electronics.
;D
Jason
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You need to find a direct replacement for your rectifiers but if i were you i would not change them at all. You are dealing with the power supply here so you need to be familiar with the circuit before making changes.
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My CDP now undergoing surgery. ;D Planning to change my Power supply diode. The current one is MUR460. The one I got is a different kind. It has 3 pins and is rectangular with metal on top. Can I use these in exchange to the MUR460? How do I install? Do I cut off the middle or do I connect the middle to one of the sides? If connecting, which side? Start of the arrow or at the end of the arrow?
Sorry don't know much about electronics.
;D
Jason
anong part number po nung diode na 3 pin?
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Sir John,
Would take your advise. Unless someone could tell me how to install it. Sayang kasi yung parts. :)
Sir ICEMAN,
It's an HFA08TB60PBF. When I ordered from Farnell, the photo seemed like the middle pin was connected to the pin #1 making it 2 pin only. But when I got the item, it had 3 pins.
Could I just cut it and solder to pin #1?
Will also check with Farnell. They might have sent me the wrong item. :)
Would really appreciate if you could help me out.
Jason
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according po dito sa datasheet nya: http://www.irf.com/product-info/datasheets/data/hfa08tb60pbf.pdf
two pins lang po sya.. baka po mali ung naibigay..
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yup. Checked the data sheet too. I already sent them an email. :) It came from Singapore cause they don't have stocks here. So they have to check with their Singapore Office. :) At least I could use it when they change the item. ;D
Thanks.
Jason
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Not really a mod, but after reading some post about it, I placed a 12kg weight on top of my vintage Denon DCD-670 (to reduce vibration?!?!). To my newbie ears it now sounded a little bit "cleaner". ;D
romymartinez
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Not really a mod, but after reading some post about it, I placed a 12kg weight on top of my vintage Denon DCD-670 (to reduce vibration?!?!). To my newbie ears it now sounded a little bit "cleaner". ;D
romymartinez
what i did was stick cork on marble tiles (to keep it from scratching the CDP) then put that on top of the CDP, then the integrated amp on top of that.
aside from that, I've seen people sticking car audio sound deadening materials inside the CDP chassis, usually on the cover. personally though Im not comfortable with anything not absolutely solid over the transport (or in the case of multi-disk players, the carousel).
I opened my CDP and found that while playing there was considerable vertical movement by the CD, and when I touched the plastic base of the spindle there was a lot of vibration. same with a few spots on the side panels not part of the cover and the rear panel. what i did was, i put blutac on all these spots, and i can see the CD wasn't moving other than hte spinning motion necessary for playing. the top cover i didn't bother with the blutac as i want to make sure nothing falls onto the moving parts.
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If you're using Plastic DIP ICs, you can buy at Alexan or Deeco.
couldn't find any OPA2134s at either store :( would anyone here know where i could get that?
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couldn't find any OPA2134s at either store :( would anyone here know where i could get that?
You should get it from RS Components or Farnell
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In case you missed it, fellow PDVDer alexg posted in 'Tubes section' his tube output mod for his vintage Denon DCD-590:
Link:
http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=86367.09 (http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=86367.09)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2117/2933545867_a4050158fd_o.jpg)
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couldn't find any OPA2134s at either store :( would anyone here know where i could get that?
recently upgraded the stock opamp of my cdp to
a bb opamp 2111...
bought a matched pair from master JojoD &
installed them myself with special instructions
from the master...
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/XYZledge/BBS.jpg)
upgrade was well worth the expense!
SQ has a day & night difference!
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couldn't find any OPA2134s at either store :( would anyone here know where i could get that?
try pm ferds. got my 2107, 2132 & 2134 from him.
or try "vapo_chill" baka meron pa siya
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Sir ferds is very kind and replaced the stock opamp (six pieces of NE553X) with OPA227/2227 of my late 80s Denon DCD-1610 (weighs 10kg). He also disabled the mute circuit.
Thanks Sir ferds!! ;D ;D
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try pm ferds. got my 2107, 2132 & 2134 from him.
or try "vapo_chill" baka meron pa siya
kung anu man yung nasa kin they were from ferds naman. ^_^
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Dear expert/s:
Does anyone here who wants to tweak/improve my decade old harman/kardon hd710?
Pls post or pm parts to be replaced and your service,
Tnx
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Try to get in touch with fellow members who had done some mods as posted in this thread.
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meron na bang nakapag modify ng car audio head unit dito?
is there a way to improve the SQ of Alpine 9887 Headunit?
here's the specs:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=CDA-9887&lang=en&tab=F (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=CDA-9887&lang=en&tab=F)
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meron na bang nakapag modify ng car audio head unit dito?
is there a way to improve the SQ of Alpine 9887 Headunit?
here's the specs:
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=CDA-9887&lang=en&tab=F (http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/product.php?model=CDA-9887&lang=en&tab=F)
Bakit bro, manipis ba ang tunog? Baka kulang lang sa time alignment. Yun Pioneer 860mp ko depende kung sino tatanungin mo sasabihin nila manipis or warm ang stock settings. Depende sa speakers at t/a lang yan.
Although iniisip ko rin kung puwede palitan yun op-amps :)
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friends,
lets say i have opamps to be used already . can you point me to a shop or a person who can help me do the upgrade im really bad with soldering and tinkering with electronics kasi
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Bakit bro, manipis ba ang tunog? Baka kulang lang sa time alignment. Yun Pioneer 860mp ko depende kung sino tatanungin mo sasabihin nila manipis or warm ang stock settings. Depende sa speakers at t/a lang yan.
Although iniisip ko rin kung puwede palitan yun op-amps :)
ok naman sa akin yung tunog, bro. sa time alignment naman i have no problem with it.
na curious lang ako kasi wala pa akong naririnig na gumawa ng mods sa HU.
mostly mga mods for home audio cd player lang.
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@mcbry,
Mahirap kasi sa parts at mas maliit yan lahat, plus mahirap i-pin down yun benefits kasi maraming tweaking tools. Kung makakuha ako ng schematics ng vintage an Class A amp, ipapa-clone ko tas lagyan ko rin ng solid state buffer. Madali na siguro gayahin yun V10D kasi 12v DC na yan :-)
@simon,
Punta ka AudioAmplified, meron pa opamps na naka-stock dun, malapit lang naman sa office mo yan.
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thanks protege silipin ko nga sya pag may kotse na eto yung sa eastwood right ?
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@simon,
Yeah, across Shopwise, yun building right after ChinaBank na may Kowloon take-out window ;)
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Pre, never use an Os-con as a coupling (dc blocking) capacitor.
It's listed as one of the prohibited use because of the high leakage current.
Basahin mo ito:
http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/electronic_components/capacitors/os_con/downloads/oscon_instructions.pdf (http://www.sanyo.com/industrial/electronic_components/capacitors/os_con/downloads/oscon_instructions.pdf)
Nasa item number 2) ng mga prohibited circuits.
I wonder is putting the Oscon caps back to back with its negative pin connected together and having a 100K connected and pulled to -5V? Any long term issues? I copied this from the configuration that Walt Jung has on the tantalum caps.
I have a number of Oscon caps and it would be a waste if I didn't use them.
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I have my Teac CD player na 110, nai saksak ni mrs sa 220.....yari!!
i opened it and found no fuse,...magkano kaya pa repair neto...at kung pa mode ko na rin kaya...
mga how much kaya aabutin...need to know kung worth it pa or itatapon ko na..
kindly pm me if anyone is interested to repair/mod and how much...or kung me gustong bumili....pampasikip kasi
Salamat!
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Use Mundorf solder its lead free, with silver content and low melting. Problem solve ;D
Cheers
Sir saan makakabili ng Silver Solder and Silver Wires?
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Sir saan makakabili ng Silver Solder and Silver Wires?
try audio amplified, libis.
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Is the no oversampling (NOS) mod of cd player brings significant improvement?
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Yes. This makes the sound more raw.
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I found a marantz cd34 in a store and checking the internet I found out that this CD player will be easy to modify. For example in order to implement no over sampling (NOS) MOD all I need to do is to remove an IC SAA7030. Lampizator describe NOS MOD as a MOD to make the CD PLayer sounds like a turntable. I also would like to try the addition of coupling and decoupling capacitor. I think the capacitor needed are available. My problem is I am not sure of the value of capacitor because the text of MOD illustration seems not to agree with the picture.
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opps I cant paste a picture. anyway he says the value of capacitor is 220nF but it look like he use 22K which is 22nF. ][/http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Philips%20CD104/CD%20104%20philips%20TDA.html] (http://[/http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Philips%20CD104/CD%20104%20philips%20TDA.html)
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Another interesting and easy to implement MOD is the FET-ishizator. Ficus says that it sounds like lampizator but it uses FET transistor, which are cheap and widely available unlike vacuum tubes. Also it doesn't need another power supply. Has anyone tried this?http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/FETISHIZATOR/fetishizator.html (http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/FETISHIZATOR/fetishizator.html)
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opps I cant paste a picture. anyway he says the value of capacitor is 220nF but it look like he use 22K which is 22nF. ][/http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Philips%20CD104/CD%20104%20philips%20TDA.html] (http://[/http://lampizator.eu/LAMPIZATOR/REFERENCES/Philips%20CD104/CD%20104%20philips%20TDA.html)
I believe these are 220nF capacitors. You can use 50V mylar capacitors or 63V metallic polyester capacitors. For the metallic polyester capacitors, you can buy online at RS components or Farnell. Based on experience, suggest you go with RS components.
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CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp
i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.
thanks for those who will proivde inputs
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CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp
i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.
thanks for those who will proivde inputs
maiiba ang tunog.
pag opamp ang pinalitan, maraming klaseng opamps at iba-iba ang tunog pag pinalitan mo. parang tube-rolling, op-amp rolling.
na kay sir timbre715 yung denon1610 ko nakakabit burrbrown opa2132. nandito bb opa227 gusto mo try palitan at pakinggan kung may pagkaiba?
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CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp
i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.
thanks for those who will proivde inputs
change the power supply diodes to schotkky 11dq10 which are available at rs. cheap but a very worthwhile upgrade.
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maiiba ang tunog.
pag opamp ang pinalitan, maraming klaseng opamps at iba-iba ang tunog pag pinalitan mo. parang tube-rolling, op-amp rolling.
na kay sir timbre715 yung denon1610 ko nakakabit burrbrown opa2132. nandito bb opa227 gusto mo try palitan at pakinggan kung may pagkaiba?
change the ;) supply diodes to schotkky 11dq10 which are available at rs. cheap but a very worthwhile upgrade.
im willing to try both if it wouldnt cost me much and if somone is willing to do this for me i know nothing about soldering hehehehehehehe
thanks to kuya rene and edwin for the inputs ;)
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im willing to try both if it wouldnt cost me much and if somone is willing to do this for me i know nothing about soldering hehehehehehehe
thanks to kuya rene and edwin for the inputs ;)
Sayang. If only i'm there, i could have done it for you. :)
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Sayang. If only i'm there, i could have done it for you. :)
salamat brader edwin, by the way yung brother ko 2 weeks lang jan sa singapore although dyan talaga ang company nya eh saudi muna sya becasue of a project patawagin ko syan sa yo mahilig din sa gamit yung para alam nya kung saan ang tamang lugar
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salamat brader edwin, by the way yung brother ko 2 weeks lang jan sa singapore although dyan talaga ang company nya eh saudi muna sya becasue of a project patawagin ko syan sa yo mahilig din sa gamit yung para alam nya kung saan ang tamang lugar
Bro, anytime patawagin mo lang siya sa akin. I could show him around where to get the best equipments.
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to all our Pdvdmates...
...any MODS can be done to this model?
MARANTZ Digital Monitoring Series CD-75 II...
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/ram_on/titan/marantz_CD75II.jpg)
(http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa316/ram_on/titan/marantz_CD75II_rear.jpg)
Outputs:
1-Analog fixed
1-Analog Variable
1-Digital Coax
1-Digital Optical
Voltage:
Selectable 110,220 & 240 volts
thanks!.. ;D
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CD Modification has always been a mystery to me. And for someone like me who knows nothing about it, could i ask on what are the common modifcations in the most simplistic explanation layman can understand say for example, are there modification to make a CD player sound like it is driven by a tube amp
i have a NAD 325BEE cd player, is there anything that can be done here to make it sound better than how it can currently.
thanks for those who will proivde inputs
Below modifications can be applied to any CDP or DVDP.
Based on my experience, the common modifications in order from most to least improvement are:
1. Output coupling capacitor modification
- The output coupling capacitor is mainly used to pass AC signal (audio signal) and block DC signal.
- The output coupling capacitor typically used in CD players are called electrolytic capacitors. These are mainly used as they provide a large capacitance in a small package. One problem though with these capacitors is they do not have stable capacitance (their capacitance varies greatly with frequency; at frequencies equal or greater than 10KHz, the capacitance value is halved; this means if the capacitor is rated as 10uF at 10KHz it becomes 5uF).
- Due to this behavior, it is easier for high frequencies to pass than low frequencies (the charge and discharge cycle is faster with lower value capacitance than higher value capacitance). This may be the reason why many CDP sound "thin" or "manipis" as high frequencies are much more emphasized.
- By using or adding better capacitors eg polyester, polypropelene etc we can somehow compensate (limited) for the behavior of the electrolytic capacitor.
2. Op-amp modification/replacement
- The op-amp is used for amplification and as a steep low pass filter.
- If the amplifier has good linearity (gain is very stable) and good or fast response (high slew rate) then we can expect that the output is same as the input with a gain.
- The steep low pass filter is used to ensure that only audio signal will pass and high frequency noise is filtered out.
3. Clock circuit modification
- If the time intervals are fixed, we can expect that the sampled audio signal can be reproduced correctly. Of course we would not like the word "hello" when sampled becomes "helo" or "ello".
4. EMI filter addition/modification
- By adding an EMI filter we ensure that high frequency noise from the AC line or from radio or TV broadcast do not interfere with the reproduced audio signal.
5. Bridge diode modification
- By using high speed diodes, we can reduce bulk voltage or DC voltage ripple. If we have a +/-12Vdc supply, it would be better if the variation is within +/-1% instead of +/-1.2%.
Based on my experience, I believe that the combination of items 1 and 2 will yield very good results (not necessarily changing the op-amps but improving its feedback compensation) if you have fair amount of time. Items 3 to 5 are nice to have. Also, instead of additional coupling capacitor a capacitance compensation circuit (internal or external circuit) should improve output audio quality much more.
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If we truly want to make the CDP tube sounding (without using vacuum tubes) we should at least look into the transfer function we are dealing with. I sincerely apologize if I will have to be mathematical (I do not know any other way to explain this simpler).
If we represent the output as a time dependent variable:
F(t) = Gain * x(t) --> equation 1
where,
F(t) = output audio signal (CDP or audio source output)
Gain = gain introduced by the op-amp or audio source amplifier (this is the closed loop gain)
x(t) = input audio signal prior to the op-amp or audio source amplifier
If we are to subscribe with the idea that the vacuum tube introduces second order harmonics we can say that its transfer function is (we will also use a time dependent variable):
Y(t) = Gain * [x(t) + z(t)] --> equation 2
where,
Y(t) = output of the vacuum tube
x(t) = input audio signal
z(t) = harmonic introduced by the vacuum tube
by rearranging the expression,
Gain = Y(t) / [x(t) + z(t)] --> equation 3
and
z(t) = [Y(t) / Gain] - x(t) --> equation 4
by integrating equation 3 to equation 1, we get:
F(t) = [Y(t) * x(t)] / [x(t) + z(t)] --> equation 5
Based on this, we have 2 time dependent variables Y(t) and z(t) which we need to figure out. Since Y(t) is dependent upon z(t), we will need to understand what this z(t) variable is.
The questions we will need to answer are:
1. At what frequency or frequencies should z(t) operate?
- Should it operate within the 20KHz range?
- Should it operate within the 100KHz range?
Note: there are studies
(1) http://www.its.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm
(2) Tsutomi Oohashi, Emi Nishina, Norie Kawai, Yocrapaka Fuwamoto, Hiroshi Imai, High-Frequency Sound Above the Audible Range Affects Brain Electric Activity and Sound Perception. Audio Engineering Society preprint No. 3207 (91st convention, New York City)
which indicate that many musical instruments and even our own voice generate frequencies in excess of 20KHz and goes up to 100KHz and that we are able to perceive such frequencies.
2. What will be the amplitude of this z(t)?
- If z(t) is made quite large it may affect and lower F(t).
3. Should z(t) operate as a transient?
- Should z(t) appear ONLY when there is an audio signal rise or fall?
Based on this, IMHO I think thorough experimentation on various circuits and extensive listening test is key to approximating or resembling z(t).
If any of you have done some time on this it is my hope that you can share some of your results. Thank you in advance.
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Below modifications can be applied to any CDP or DVDP.
Based on my experience, the common modifications in order from most to least improvement are:
1. Output coupling capacitor modification
- The output coupling capacitor is mainly used to pass AC signal (audio signal) and block DC signal.
- The output coupling capacitor typically used in CD players are called electrolytic capacitors. These are mainly used as they provide a large capacitance in a small package. One problem though with these capacitors is they do not have stable capacitance (their capacitance varies greatly with frequency; at frequencies equal or greater than 10KHz, the capacitance value is halved; this means if the capacitor is rated as 10uF at 10KHz it becomes 5uF).
- Due to this behavior, it is easier for high frequencies to pass than low frequencies (the charge and discharge cycle is faster with lower value capacitance than higher value capacitance). This may be the reason why many CDP sound "thin" or "manipis" as high frequencies are much more emphasized.
- By using or adding better capacitors eg polyester, polypropelene etc we can somehow compensate (limited) for the behavior of the electrolytic capacitor.
2. Op-amp modification/replacement
- The op-amp is used for amplification and as a steep low pass filter.
- If the amplifier has good linearity (gain is very stable) and good or fast response (high slew rate) then we can expect that the output is same as the input with a gain.
- The steep low pass filter is used to ensure that only audio signal will pass and high frequency noise is filtered out.
3. Clock circuit modification
- If the time intervals are fixed, we can expect that the sampled audio signal can be reproduced correctly. Of course we would not like the word "hello" when sampled becomes "helo" or "ello".
4. EMI filter addition/modification
- By adding an EMI filter we ensure that high frequency noise from the AC line or from radio or TV broadcast do not interfere with the reproduced audio signal.
5. Bridge diode modification
- By using high speed diodes, we can reduce bulk voltage or DC voltage ripple. If we have a +/-12Vdc supply, it would be better if the variation is within +/-1% instead of +/-1.2%.
Based on my experience, I believe that the combination of items 1 and 2 will yield very good results (not necessarily changing the op-amps but improving its feedback compensation) if you have fair amount of time. Items 3 to 5 are nice to have. Also, instead of additional coupling capacitor a capacitance compensation circuit (internal or external circuit) should improve output audio quality much more.
Well said rascal. Add ko lang na pwedeng mag add ng tube buffer sa analog output.
Basically if somebody want to Mod their CD players start with the Op-Amp replacement and the Power Supply improvement bu using better Fast recovery diodes and better Caps.
Next are the clock improvement
Then changing your CDPlayer ;D just kidding
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Well said rascal. Add ko lang na pwedeng mag add ng tube buffer sa analog output.
Basically if somebody want to Mod their CD players start with the Op-Amp replacement and the Power Supply improvement bu using better Fast recovery diodes and better Caps.
Next are the clock improvement
Then changing your CDPlayer ;D just kidding
haven't had much experience in electronics so i'll take your last advise and just change my cdplayer! ;D
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Hi,
Thinking of doing mods on my 2 cdps.
- NAD C542 - In Manila
Marantz CD6003 - Here in Singapore
Pls. pm me what is the best mod to be done in either cdp and the cost.
Thanks,
:)
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sir, i just recently acquired sir onkyo606's cd player, nad525bee, he referred me to you. ;D ;D ;D and i'm planning to get it fixed, the tray keeps on closing after you've opened it. he said its just the rubber belt that needs to be replaced. im also planning to get this cd player modified. can you please pm me the things that needed to be modified or replaced and how much it will cost? thank you very much sir ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Sent you PM on the repair and mod of the CDP :). Please take note that almost all items are typically available at an electronics store whether you are in the province or in MM except for the 10nF polypropelene capacitor.
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CD Player Mod is fun especially for Electronic enthusiast :D. But somehow, you will end-up changing your CD Player >:(. The very reason is: A good CD player starts with a very Good Transport, then it is the best to start a WORTH Modding! Heres is my Steps:
1. Start with the Power Supply - Better Electrolytic Caps and FR diodes
2. Output Coupling Cap Modification
3. OP Amp
4. Reclocking (Final)
Depends on the CD Player you have,not all above mod is applicable.
Happy DIY'ng!
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Is there anyone here that can repair my Sony DVP-S9000ES? It is still turning on (no video output already, tray not opening) but after about 10 seconds, it shuts itself off.
I brought to Sony Phils, they just checked it and says no parts available. I dont think they are allowed to perform modification or repair like to change some compatible parts but only Sony approved parts.
-
sir philander,
ok p b lens nya? is it dual lens? want to sell ur player? dito lang me for the taking, tnx
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Hi,
Thinking of doing mods on my 2 cdps.
- NAD C542 - In Manila
Marantz CD6003 - Here in Singapore
Pls. pm me what is the best mod to be done in either cdp and the cost.
Thanks,
:)
As an example, I would like to show an approach on how to modify the Marantz CD-6003 CDP.
(http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/photos/marantz_CD6003.jpg)
As a start, let's try to gather some data on this CDP.
From the link,
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product/1446
1. It is using the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter. This is the same converter used on the Marantz CD-6002.
2. It is using
"The Marantz HDAM-SA2 - Hyper Dynamic Amplifier Modules - replace single chip, 'off-the-shelf' Op-Amps, operating as a buffer amplifier and as a Low Pass Filter."
Based on this, it appears that the output analog section is using some proprietary circuitry (HDAM) for its active low pass filter circuit.
This will have to be verified by reverse engineering the circuit board of the CDP.
With this information, we should start by geting hold of the datasheet for the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter and studying it from the link,
www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4398_F1.pdf
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cirrus_cs4398_pg1.png)
Based on this, it appears that:
a. It has its own digital filter and own voltage reference
- this is typical for modern DACs, previously external digital filters were employed
-- It's internal digital filter can operate in 3 oversampling modes based on the input sample rate. Based on feedback that less oversampling results is subjectively better sound, we should operate with minimal oversampling as possible. As such, we should operate at quad speed mode.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cirrus_cs4398_pg21.png)
So, our very first mod (should we decide to pursue it and is not implemented on the CDP circuit board) is making the D/A converter operate at quad speed mode.
-- Further since it has an internal voltage reference, it is a good idea to ensure that the DAC operates at a stable temperature.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cirrus_cs4398_pg1_block.png)
Why?
Many precision test instruments have voltage references which are "ovenized". Meaning to say, it is enclosed in a metal receptacle to ensure that the surruounding temperature is uniform and as such would result in a fixed reference value. It is then essential or a must (necessity) for D/A converters!!! For obvious reasons, the internal voltage reference would have fluctuating reference values should the surrounding temperature change.
So, our second mod is to put a heatsink on the D/A converter (if one does not exist already). Just make sure you use a thermal adhesive with good thermal coefficient to help ensure that heat can easily be absorbed by the heatsink. Also, make sure that the heatsink fills up the whole D/A converter package.
b. Decoupling capacitors as close as possible to the D/A converter is a must.
"The Typical Connection Diagram shows the recommended power arrangement with VA, VD, VLS and VLC connected to clean supplies. Decoupling capacitors should be located as close to the device package as possible."
So, our third mod is to ensure that the decoupling caps are as close as possible to the D/A converter.
c. The datasheet also recommends a second order Butterworth filter based on application note 48.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/butterworth_filter1.png)
On the 2 items highlighted in blue, based on the recommendations from the picking capacitors article by Walter A. Jung and Richard Marsh
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/picking_cap_pg1.png)
We should observe their recommendations.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cap_film_shunt_1.png)
So, our fourth mod is as below:
Based on experience, I have gone with the arbitrary polarity configuration (B). If I observed that the original output coupling capacitor is 22uF, here is what I do
- Ca1 and Ca2 is a low ESR 47uF or 56uF electrolytic capacitor
- Cb is a polypropelene capacitor from 1uF to 2.2uF
- Cc is a polypropelene capacitor from 100nF to 220nF
- I add a Cd which is a polypropelene capacitor from 1nF to 10nF
For the local bleeder or shunt resistance I usually place anything from 1Kohm to 4.7Kohm.
For the rest of the capacitors encircled in red,
- Ceramic COG should be replaced with polyester (mylar) capacitor or polystyrene capacitors (you should find these in all Alexan branches or Watsons Electronic store in Raon)
- the 100uF electrolytic capacitor should be any low ESR capacitor such as Nichicon "PL", "PM", "HD"; Rubycon "ZL" etc
I hope this helps :)
-
As an example, I would like to show an approach on how to modify the Marantz CD-6003 CDP.
(http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/photos/marantz_CD6003.jpg)
As a start, let's try to gather some data on this CDP.
From the link,
http://www.cyberselect.co.uk/product/1446
1. It is using the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter. This is the same converter used on the Marantz CD-6002.
2. It is using
"The Marantz HDAM-SA2 - Hyper Dynamic Amplifier Modules - replace single chip, 'off-the-shelf' Op-Amps, operating as a buffer amplifier and as a Low Pass Filter."
Based on this, it appears that the output analog section is using some proprietary circuitry (HDAM) for its active low pass filter circuit.
This will have to be verified by reverse engineering the circuit board of the CDP.
With this information, we should start by geting hold of the datasheet for the Cirrus Logic CS-4398 D/A converter and studying it from the link,
www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/CS4398_F1.pdf
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cirrus_cs4398_pg1.png)
Based on this, it appears that:
a. It has its own digital filter and own voltage reference
- this is typical for modern DACs, previously external digital filters were employed
-- It's internal digital filter can operate in 3 oversampling modes based on the input sample rate. Based on feedback that less oversampling results is subjectively better sound, we should operate with minimal oversampling as possible. As such, we should operate at quad speed mode.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cirrus_cs4398_pg21.png)
So, our very first mod (should we decide to pursue it and is not implemented on the CDP circuit board) is making the D/A converter operate at quad speed mode.
-- Further since it has an internal voltage reference, it is a good idea to ensure that the DAC operates at a stable temperature.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cirrus_cs4398_pg1_block.png)
Why?
Many precision test instruments have voltage references which are "ovenized". Meaning to say, it is enclosed in a metal receptacle to ensure that the surruounding temperature is uniform and as such would result in a fixed reference value. It is then essential or a must (necessity) for D/A converters!!! For obvious reasons, the internal voltage reference would have fluctuating reference values should the surrounding temperature change.
So, our second mod is to put a heatsink on the D/A converter (if one does not exist already). Just make sure you use a thermal adhesive with good thermal coefficient to help ensure that heat can easily be absorbed by the heatsink. Also, make sure that the heatsink fills up the whole D/A converter package.
b. Decoupling capacitors as close as possible to the D/A converter is a must.
"The Typical Connection Diagram shows the recommended power arrangement with VA, VD, VLS and VLC connected to clean supplies. Decoupling capacitors should be located as close to the device package as possible."
So, our third mod is to ensure that the decoupling caps are as close as possible to the D/A converter.
c. The datasheet also recommends a second order Butterworth filter based on application note 48.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/butterworth_filter1.png)
On the 2 items highlighted in blue, based on the recommendations from the picking capacitors article by Walter A. Jung and Richard Marsh
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/picking_cap_pg1.png)
We should observe their recommendations.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/cap_film_shunt_1.png)
So, our fourth mod is as below:
Based on experience, I have gone with the arbitrary polarity configuration (B). If I observed that the original output coupling capacitor is 22uF, here is what I do
- Ca1 and Ca2 is a low ESR 47uF or 56uF electrolytic capacitor
- Cb is a polypropelene capacitor from 1uF to 2.2uF
- Cc is a polypropelene capacitor from 100nF to 220nF
- I add a Cd which is a polypropelene capacitor from 1nF to 10nF
For the local bleeder or shunt resistance I usually place anything from 1Kohm to 4.7Kohm.
For the rest of the capacitors encircled in red,
- Ceramic COG should be replaced with polyester (mylar) capacitor or polystyrene capacitors (you should find these in all Alexan branches or Watsons Electronic store in Raon)
- the 100uF electrolytic capacitor should be any low ESR capacitor such as Nichicon "PL", "PM", "HD"; Rubycon "ZL" etc
I hope this helps :)
NOSEBLEED! ;D
pasensya na. engot sa electronics in the house :D
wish i had the patience to learn about it.
nice reading, though. just wish i could understand half of it! :P
-
:)
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To add another simple modification.
You must replace the external ceramic capacitors used by the clock circuit of the CS4398 D/A converter. Ceramic capacitors are no good at very high frequencies. You must use either use polystyrene, silver mica or glass capacitors. I suggest the polystyrene capacitors as this are available locally. Check with Spin Electronics or Watson's Electronic Store.
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hi
im not sure if im posting this on the right thread but i was wondering if you can point me to someone who i can convert my cd players to 220 from 100 volts ? also is this safe ba ?
any idea how much it would cost ?
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Near the intersection of Ronquillo and Sales Street in Quiapo is a place you can have the transformer converted from 100V to 220V. Not sure about the cost though.
If conversion is done properly, there should be no issues.
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I am seeing a proliferation of CDPs and external DACs with high # of bits eg 24 and with 192KHz sampling frequency.
Let's try to break it down to have an idea
24 bits
---------
Using a 2.5V reference, 1 bit is
2.5/2^24 = 0.15uV or 150nV
Using a 5V reference, 1 bit is
5/2^24 = 0.298uV or 300nV
192KHz
----------
192/44.1 = 4.3 or ~4X sampling frequency
Based on this, the questions are:
1. Is is possible for a CDP or external DAC to achieve 150nV or 300nV accuracy?
- To do this the temperature of the Audio DAC must be constant at all times (everytime actually)
- The band gap reference must be very, very accurate
--- Is it better than the bandgap being used on a A/D or D/A Automated Tester where the bandgap is separate and has a fixture maintaining constant temperature at all times?
--- At this level, it is already better than some of the reference calibration equipment (costing many, many thousands of dollars) used by semiconductor companies for their automated testers. Is it?
- The supply voltage to the Audio DAC must be constant at all times (despite fluctuating AC voltage)
- It is approximating tester fixture engineering (again costing many thousands of dollars)? Is it?
2. With many CDPs featuring 1X (no oversampling), 2X, 8X or even 16X oversampling, are we to believe 4X oversampling is better? Why 4X?
Last question with ordinary DVDs featuring this 24bit/192KHz, what is the differentiation between good and bad if electronic engineering wise both are same, difference is few parts eg capacitors etc.
-
It is true that most CDPs that have 24-bit DACs could not reliably resolve all the gradations of 24-bit. However they almost always do not have to, because the source recording itself is a limitation. The plain oversampling (and upsampling) features just shift the aliasing noise away from the audible band, so that it can be fairly harmlessly filtered off (and at a low cost at that). A lot of the data is just digitally repeated in lower-cost players.
Most that do have 24-bit capable DACs actually still run them at 16-bit anyway, fed at redbook sampling rates (and the DAC internally oversampling 2x, 4x, 8x or more… 88kHz, 176kHz, 352kHz, etc.), instead of the advertised 24 bits and 96kHz or 192kHz sampling (DAC input capability, not actual operation). This is true whether the DAC internally handles the data in native PCM, or uses pulse-proportion modulation (very popular nowadays… mostly on those that claim high multiples of oversampling). It does happen that today’s higher grade DACs are capable of high bit depths and sampling rates, so that can be a justification for the marketing highlight of a “24-bit/192kHz” DAC. Why do DAC makers design their mainstream chips to take 24-bit/192kHz? Because it’s the highest resolution consumer spec (utilized on DVD-A, Bluray and Studio Master Downloads).
There are some that run upsampling, which can do a “non-integer oversample” using a separate chip (and thus changing the DAC's input data feed to 16-bit 96kHz/192kHz). The biggest advantage of using these chips is reclocking, as this tends to reduce both transport and interconnect/interIC jitter (the transport will thus run asynchronously with the DAC). Still fewer use outboard oversampling, which does synchronous integer upsampling before feeding the DAC (because it may reduce native jitter versus having the DAC chip do all the oversampling, and/or it runs the DAC closer to its optimal sampling rate without the losses of upsampling).
Aside from conventional upsampling, some higher end products are now employing stronger processors (Anagram modules with SHARC DSPs are frequently in these devices) that actually convert the data to a very high feed rate with little loss (and bypassing the DAC’s built-in oversampler altogether). These DSPs run at 32-bit or 40-bit internally, and plot the input data points to its internal memory then intelligently outputs a “clean” waveform in the target resolution (upto 24-bit 384kHz and 24-bit 768kHz are fairly common implementations these days). The final resolution is often the maximum capability of the installed DAC chip/s without oversampling. The processing allows for a smoother output (more usable data points derived for the DAC's use), which should theoretically be closer to an analogue waveform. High end outboard DACs often have this functionality as well. When you look at players with this functionality, they tend to be overbuilt and are made with very tight tolerances, so as not to waste the resolution at hand. Sure it may still not be a reliable true 24-bit quality output on the analogue end, but you can tell where a big chunk of your money went.
Not counting the differences on the analogue side (higher end CDPs now often use capacitorless data paths), it is clear that manufacturers are going lengths to extract “better” data from relatively low resolution CDs. It still can’t be as good as a true high resolution format, but as good video upsamplers can enhance video data, so can good audio processing techniques (given that they remain largely non-intrusive).
As for the difference between CDPs and DVDPs, budget CDPs are very much like DVDPs with some different components. A very basic difference is that most CDP transports read at 1x (most DVDPs read CDDA at 1x). DVDPs, often having to run at a higher speed, stop and start reading as their FIFO buffer gets filled and emptied. A problem is that the CD spec (unlike the DVD spec) does not require block-accurate addressing. The address information is frequently pulled out of the subcode channel, so the DVDP may incorrectly identify the exact start of each block (the one just after it stopped reading). This can cause doubled or lost samples. This is a more difficult problem to address than just the plain transport jitter from 1x CDDA-only transports.
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There are many types of DACs and I think you only have to look to Google to find out that there is basically nothing new since the early 90s.
I think the point here is why advertise on DAC or DSP capability when there are many gating factors or the DAC or DSP is not operating at its full capability.
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There are many types of DACs and I think you only have to look to Google to find out that there is basically nothing new since the early 90s.
New DAC designs are mostly refinements of old ones. There are quite some improvements in measured performance, especially in terms of dynamic range and noise floor, distortion, and crosstalk. Not to mention that new ones run much higher internal clocks (allowing support for higher resolution and wider bandwidth material). Cars and computers these days are mostly refinements of prior models, yet you can't deny that they've gotten better.
Unfortunately, the CD source is truly becoming the limiting factor of these designs. They're like V12-engined cars running at speed limits designed for 80s econoboxes. They can still can do many things better, but they're artificially capped by that limitation.
I think the point here is why advertise on DAC or DSP capability when there are many gating factors or the DAC or DSP is not operating at its full capability.
They just advertise the DAC spec because it's there, and it sells. That's like a compact car fitted with Y-rated tires - it does not mean that the car actually goes 300KPH.
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I guess it's all business at the advertising front then.
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Here is a nice project for us ...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diyaudio-com-articles/172983-zen-i-v-converter.html
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Nice reading material http://www.analog.com/library/analogDialogue/archives/39-06/data_conversion_handbook.html
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Here is a nice project for us ...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/diyaudio-com-articles/172983-zen-i-v-converter.html
On my Sony CDP-750 and CDP-950 ...
I did not practice this but did a tweak by improving the tolerance of the resistor on the I-V op-amp and I noticed very good improvement.
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Currently reading the converter section ...
http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/43-09/linear_circuit_design_handbook.html
This compliments the Linear Design Seminar handbook I have from Analog Devices.
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This is also good ...
www.jitter.de/pdfextern/DesignSem5.pdf
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I hope that someone can provide good reference on the computation of the capacitor or capacitors values that need to be placed in parallel with the output coupling capacitor. The write-up from Walt Jung on picking capacitors is good but somehow there is something missing. This is what I think.
Should it be Y / 1,000? Or, Y / 20,000? Or Y / 50,000 - with Y being the value of the output coupling capacitor?
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http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_13/4.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_13/4.html)
http://www.electronicrepairguide.com/series-and-parallel-capacitors.html (http://www.electronicrepairguide.com/series-and-parallel-capacitors.html)
http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/series-parallel-capacitor-calculator.php (http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/series-parallel-capacitor-calculator.php)
http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3e.htm
(http://www.tpub.com/neets/book2/3e.htm)
http://www.physicstutorials.org/home/electrostatics/capacitors-in-series-and-paralle (http://www.physicstutorials.org/home/electrostatics/capacitors-in-series-and-paralle)
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Thanks.
Unfortunately, those links do not tell about the proper or exact amount of capacitance you need to put in parallel for an existing capacitor. Reference design manuals/guidebook or application notes, textbooks, journals etc typically have recommendations. I am looking for is a design guidebook that has these computations.
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Thanks.
Unfortunately, those links do not tell about the proper or exact amount of capacitance you need to put in parallel for an existing capacitor. Reference design manuals/guidebook or application notes, textbooks, journals etc typically have recommendations. I am looking for is a design guidebook that has these computations.
For me, a 10000uf caps, i bypass with a 0.1uf caps or between 0.1uf to 1uf will do. You can do your math from here.
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For MARANTZ CD Player Modifications and Tweaking:
http://www.raylectronics.nl/index_en.html (http://www.raylectronics.nl/index_en.html)
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hi
im not sure if im posting this on the right thread but i was wondering if you can point me to someone who i can convert my cd players to 220 from 100 volts ? also is this safe ba ?
any idea how much it would cost ?
converting japan traffo to 220 volts...
i got a cd player from the pier, it has a 100volt "japan standard" power traffo...
now as a rainy day project, i decided to convert it to 220 volts...
after dismantling the traffo from the cd player, i dipped the traffo assembly into a can full of lacquer thinner, but first i also dismantled the mounting brackets...i left it to stay for more than 48hours...
something like this:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-010.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-005.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-006.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-013.jpg)
notice that there is a thermal fuse connected, it is still good so we are going to re-use it:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-014.jpg)
next comes counting the primary turns using my rewinding machine:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-016.jpg)
turned out that the traffo had 848 turns or turns per volt = 8.48, now the average voltage at my sockets is 225 so therefore i needed 1908 turns.
the original wire size was #30, therefore i needed to use a #33 wire, rule of thumb, is 3 wire sizes thinner to convert to local voltage.
finished coi:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-020.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110622a-022.jpg)
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installed in the cd player:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110701a-003.jpg)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/110701a-001.jpg)
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Great job!
It would be nice if we also had a winding machine and know how to properly wind a transformer.
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brader tonyt pwede bang palitan lang ung traffo para maging 220v? or may iba pang papalitan?
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brader tonyt pwede bang palitan lang ung traffo para maging 220v? or may iba pang papalitan?
pwede, kaso multi-taping kadalasan....madali naman na magconvert...kaya gawin sa raon yan while you wait...
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^_^ Problema lang pag-di pantay-pantay ng maayos yung I & E may ugong tsaka malakas uminit transfo. ;D
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mahirap din pala kailangan kakilala gagawa ;D
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^_^ Problema lang pag-di pantay-pantay ng maayos yung I & E may ugong tsaka malakas uminit transfo. ;D
pwede ibalik pag ganyan.....
yung Podmon sa legarda, malapit sa bustillos recomendado sa mga conversion ng traffo...doon ako nagpapagawa pag sobrang busy na ko..
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hi to all.
ask ko lang baka pwede ako magpa modify any of these players: kenwood dp-57 ; jvc xl -v211; nakamichi cd 4. which of these is worthy of modification? magkano po kaya? thanks.
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hi to all.
ask ko lang baka pwede ako magpa modify any of these players: kenwood dp-57 ; jvc xl -v211; nakamichi cd 4. which of these is worthy of modification? magkano po kaya? thanks.
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I believe the best candidate for modification is the Nakamichi CD-4.
I think the cost depends on what modification you would like to achieve. Further I think the bigger the improvement the higher the cost.
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sir thanks sa quick reply. nag pm po ko.
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Meron po bang modification para sa PHILIPS SACD1000 ?
Salamat po.... :)
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pwede ko po ba i mod akai cd player ko to read captain hook cd's?
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Hi to All! My case is more of correction than a modification. But since I'll be having the CDP opened, might as well ask ideas on modification. Anyway, my CDP is Marantz CD6000OSE which i pulled out of sale because I just discovered an issue in reading CD-Rs. This CDP was ok in reading CD-Rs in my collection but does not recognize the CD-Rs which I recently bought from MCS (Imation CDRs) hence the ERROR. I have already surfed the net and found a possible correction. Please see link below :
http://wikhifi.wikispaces.com/Marantz+CD6000+-+CD-R+playing+error+bug+fix#Marantz%20CD6000.%20CD-R%20playing%20error%20bug%20fix-Links (http://wikhifi.wikispaces.com/Marantz+CD6000+-+CD-R+playing+error+bug+fix#Marantz%20CD6000.%20CD-R%20playing%20error%20bug%20fix-Links).
Since I'm not familiar with electronics, I'm hoping that someone can help me on the following :
1. The link suggests to use Kemet C0805C100J5GAC (10pF 50V NP0 0805) capacitor, what could be the equivalent capacitor which is commercialy available in the Philippines? Where to purchase?
2. And since I'm at it, can you recommend modifications to improve this CDP? I'm sorry but all the schematics which I've downloaded from the net contain errors when opened.
3. Where can I possibly have this fixed and modified? Meron po ba dito sa board?
TIA
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You can buy a 10pF ceramic capacitor at Deeco and Alexan instead of the surface mount capacitor (0805) which the link suggests. The capacitor should have a 10 marking.
For modifications, you can change the output coupling capacitor. However, to be sure what capacitor you need to replace you will need the schematics for that.
For the modification, I would suggest that you PM monreq. He is an expert in this kind of things.
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Thanks,Sir rascal101! Appreciate your suggestions...
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Mga gurus,
If I wanted to upgrade my Bada CDP's platter to a better one, where could I get it and who would be able to install it?
Thanks.
Jason
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hi ferds and rascal101,
i like my cdp to modified, magkano kaya abutin? here's the link:
http://yamatabi.que.ne.jp/photo/100405c722m/index.html (http://yamatabi.que.ne.jp/photo/100405c722m/index.html)
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Renamed the title of this thread to CD PLAYER/DAC MOD
... also possible to apply CD player mods on DAC.
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Output approximation circuit for use in AK4495 DAC next week ...
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d87/rascal101/x888_02_zpsq9mbws3v.jpg)
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Sir monreq,
Baka may gusto kang i-share na bagong mods diyan.
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Maligayang Pasko at Manigong Bagong Taon!
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Now is May 16, 2023, anyone still modifying their CD/SACD/DVD?
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Tr to improve the power supply. Kahit direct replacement lang ng caps sa power supply ng mga boutique tabs of parts. Maliki rin improvement kung papalitan ang mga normal diodes to schotkky or fast soft recovery type of diodes.