PinoyDVD: The Pinoy Digital Video & Devices Community
Home Theater => Audio => Tubes => Topic started by: TonyC on Apr 23, 2006 at 07:34 PM
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These two great fil. products have been in the market for a few months now, with the Trodt Fire Musika coming out a bit later....would appreciate hearing from those fortunate enough to hear both, which of the two they prefer and why....I've been waiting for opinions on this over at WS but it seems nobody wants to break the ice.
Am not trying to start a war between these two great products but am sure one of these two is slightly better than the other and it would be nice to hear from the experts which product they prefer and why.
Cheers :)
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Both gears are good and have their own characteristics.
Being a newbee on tubes, it is very hard to comment since this might create and start the WWIII on audio here in Philippines.
Heard both but will keep my slience :-X since being a newbee, I might be wrong.
Will just leave to the expert/audiophile the comments section.
To date I am just looking and scouting the "tamang" combo if (pre-amp-main) Tube-SS or Tube-Tube to power up a floor stander.
Cheers.
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These two great fil. products have been in the market for a few months now, with the Trodt Fire Musika coming out a bit later....would appreciate hearing from those fortunate enough to hear both, which of the two they prefer and why....I've been waiting for opinions on this over at WS but it seems nobody wants to break the ice.
Am not trying to start a war between these two great products but am sure one of these two is slightly better than the other and it would be nice to hear from the experts which product they prefer and why.
Cheers :)
Hi TonyC.
What are their individual prices?
Thanks.
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nice to have a chance to read reviews of these proudly pinoy products.
and how will they fare kaya with AMX and JD labs preamps?
Lets hear it guys!
Proudly Penoy Preamps ;D ;D ;D
* specs and features muna please...kumbaga sa boxing in this corner! ;D
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Both gears are good and have their own characteristics.
Being a newbee on tubes, it is very hard to comment since this might create and start the WWIII on audio here in Philippines.
Heard both but will keep my slience :-X since being a newbee, I might be wrong.
Will just leave to the expert/audiophile the comments section.
To date I am just looking and scouting the "tamang" combo if (pre-amp-main) Tube-SS or Tube-Tube to power up a floor stander.
Cheers.
Subjective naman e. You can't be wrong ;)
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Hi Markmlists,
I think both are P18k, don't know much about their specs, but both are enjoying good reviews over at WS. Musika, however features a tube regulated power supply which i've heard from some gives it a different flavor.
Hi Abad S7, ok lang kahit newbie, doesn't mean you have to give an analytical evaluation. I've been an audio fan for so many years already and always gets awed at the way those gurus give out their reviews but i still consider myself a newbie as I still figure out most of the time what the heck they all mean. So, everybody's opinion is encouraged, whether lame or insanely clinical....the more the better.
Cheers :D
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Specs and measurements of the Tono Violin and all Tono products will be published at Wiredstate.
You can use that as a guide.
At saka we don't mind if our products are compared with another. We don't say it's the best, all we can say is that there's always room for improvement. Mind you, there are other projects in our lab that has yet to come out to the market.
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Specs and measurements of the Tono Violin and all Tono products will be published at Wiredstate.
You can use that as a guide.
At saka we don't mind if our products are compared with another. We don't say it's the best, all we can say is that there's always room for improvement. Mind you, there are other projects in our lab that has yet to come out to the market.
Thanks, hope we can encourage some feedback. It seems many are intimidated when it comes to WS products, being concerned more on the personalities behind the product rather on the product itself. Hope this change soon. I've been happily using the Tono 12au7 for a few months now and thought i should have waited a bit for the Violin...but then again comes musika...wow when will it end.
For the consumers on a tight budget, it's only on forums like this that we can get better educated and informed on these products......more power to the local designers :)
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It will only end when you want to.
When there is a new product that's getting some rave reviews I always take it with a bucket of salt. It does not mean the new one is always better, but when you hear something new to your ears, you might thought it's better. Di ba?
Know what you really want. In my case I always wanted to have a neutral setup from source to preamp, so I can hear the sound (or differences in sound) of my amps. If you want a colored preamp, then most likely yun ang hahanapin mo. Also, don't be influenced by reviews or friends. Kanya kanya tayo ng gusto.
If you don't know what you want to achieve in audio, not even god can help you :) You probably stop when you don't have money.
ps.
Intimidated? Most of you don't know when we make a design we are (the Tono Men) the strongest critique. I remember when I got a comment from another who said, "ang sakit naman sa tenga ng tunog nyan" and we always take it as positive so that we can improve on the product. On the third iteration of the prototype biglang sabi "o anong ginawa mo maganda na ah."
Ganun talaga, kailangan pintasan. Kami ang numero uno pintasero ng product namin and we know the strenghts and weaknesses. Yung weaknesses, sometimes kailangan tanggapin because of design constraints, minsan pwede improve. Pero we also have products of the others kaya alam din namin how they perform ;D
pps.
You also cannot discount the fact na may affiliation ang iba. May maka Mang Rod, may maka Rene, may maka AMX. Ganun talaga, influenced na agad.
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Totally agree with all points raised ;D.....maybe those w/AMX experience as well can put in their 2 cents worth, sorry am not in the know of AMX gears, hence did not mention this.....cheers :)
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Nice Idea TonyC. I Believe they are both Great pre-amps, but still it's a matter of Choice!
Lets start with this:
Musika
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/Renemac/DSC00047.jpg)
Tono Violin
(http://www.sogono.net/gallery/albums/album146/31132312_G.jpg)
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It's always healthy to have criticism preferably constructive. It is impossible to design a product that meets everyone's expectations.
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Specs of Tono: (Based on the designer)
- massive chassis about 2-3x heavier and bigger than the current Tono pre-amp (12au7)
- octal triode design! sound is BIG, extended, dynamic and musical
- premium parts. apart from our standard premium capacitors, we will be using premium carbon-film resistors (costing 10x the regular) and hi-end internal wiring and solder
- exclusive design by Tono Team, extensively tested and tuned for audiophiles
- unique innovative circuit design (sorry, we can't give details )
- tube rectified, dual inductors, massive capacitance
- specifically designed to respond to tube-rolling...so it's like having several pre-amps in one chassis
- export quality. this is already much awaited by a dealer in the USA!
- will challenge ANY preamp in the $1-3k range. may put your "hi-end" pre-amp to shame
we are proud to say, this might as well be your last pre-amp to ever buy.
trust us, do NOT buy any pre-amp yet until you see, feel and listen to this pre-amp.
now, the good news: introductory price will not exceed 20k (USA SRP = $1,200-1,500)
ATTENTION: Can't find specs of Musika pls. post it here thanks.
NOTE: This is not to start WAR between this two good Pre-amps. I believe they have different characteristics since they are using different Tubes. This is just like a choice between the Ford Focus & New Honda Civic with the same engine size.
Musika --------Php 17,500.00
Tono Violin----Php 18,000.00
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Sir Odyopayl,
Can't find the specs of the Tono Violin either. I thought, specs read something like this:
THD?
Input line voltage range?
Gain vs frequency?
Frequency response?
Power consumption?
Inrush current protection?
Bulk OVP protection?
E-cap life?
MTBF?
Power factor?
Output impedance?
Also, does it necessarily mean that premium parts equal good engineering? Or are premium parts being used to cover the circuit/layout limitations?
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odyopayl, hindi technical specs yan kundi marketing specs ;)
rascal, pahiram na kasi ng testing gears mo! :D
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Sir Arnoldc,
I use Simetrix simulation software extensively during development. Nga lang I don't do tubes kasi and the models present are primarily semiconductor based. When necessary, I perform bench test at the office. Mahal iyung gain phase analyzer, oscilloscope and power meter. Wala rin akong budget.
Some of the circuits naman are based on previous projects so no need to test this.
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I have the squeare wave response of the Violin at 40Hz, 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 20kHz.
Anybody interested?
Soon, I can provide you with the frequency response, dynamic range, THD, IMD, Crosstalk, and channel balance.
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rascal101,
nadali mo! ;D i'm expecting someone will ask what really the specs are! ;)
Sir Odyopayl,
Can't find the specs of the Tono Violin either. I thought, specs read something like this:
THD?
Input line voltage range?
Gain vs frequency?
Frequency response?
Power consumption?
Inrush current protection?
Bulk OVP protection?
E-cap life?
MTBF?
Power factor?
Output impedance?
Also, does it necessarily mean that premium parts equal good engineering? Or are premium parts being used to cover the circuit/layout limitations?
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does it mean that you are not really seeing the actual graph across the frequencies?
Sir Arnoldc,
I use Simetrix simulation software extensively during development. Nga lang I don't do tubes kasi and the models present are primarily semiconductor based. When necessary, I perform bench test at the office. Mahal iyung gain phase analyzer, oscilloscope and power meter. Wala rin akong budget.
Some of the circuits naman are based on previous projects so no need to test this.
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I have the squeare wave response of the Violin at 40Hz, 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 20kHz.
Anybody interested?
Soon, I can provide you with the frequency response, dynamic range, THD, IMD, Crosstalk, and channel balance.
Paki post naman ng waveforms mo Sir Arnoldc.
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does it mean that you are not really seeing the actual graph across the frequencies?
The Simetrix software will let you plot the gain/phase response vs frequency. It can also do Monte Carlo analysis to show you the various curves based on the tolerances of components.
How well does Simetrix compare vs bench? If we are talking complete PSU, not very accurate. If we are talking parts of a PSU eg PFC circuit, DC-DC etc quite accurate. If we are talking EMI, not very accurate.
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Paki post naman ng waveforms mo Sir Arnoldc.
surely bukas, nasa memstick naiwan sa bahay :-)
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Nice Idea TonyC. I Believe they are both Great pre-amps, but still it's a matter of Choice!
Lets start with this:
Musika
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y56/Renemac/DSC00047.jpg)
Tono Violin
(http://www.sogono.net/gallery/albums/album146/31132312_G.jpg)
...HANEP SA GANDA...sino kaya may edge???
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Simetrix? Ito ba yung kay Catena? Spice din yan di ba?
I use LT Spice, may mga tube models na ;)
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Sir Odyopayl,
Can't find the specs of the Tono Violin either. I thought, specs read something like this:
=========================================================================
Initial Specs are been posted either marketing still considered specs. Anyway, lets hope Sir Arnold will post the TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION
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Both look good, the violin with the minimalist look but i dig how the wood sidings and knobs look on the musika.
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Simetrix? Ito ba yung kay Catena? Spice din yan di ba?
I use LT Spice, may mga tube models na ;)
Yes and yes.
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Yes and yes.
Nakow, kamahal nyan... $3,000 ata ang basic nyan.
Pang hobbyist lang ito :)
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Ginagamit ko version 5.1 - free download, no expiration ... Limited iyung number of parts pero puwede na rin sa application ko. BTW, ginagamit ko rin ito pang audio design. Para siya kasing EWB in terms of simplicity pero halos PSPICE iyung capability. Dito ako nag model ng analog circuit ko para sa CDP (after DAC output). Gumamit ako ng discrete circuit.
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:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)
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Thanks TonyC for your previous response.
BTW (to anyone), ano ang tube complement ng Musika?
Also, any initial reviews sa sound?
Salamat
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12AT7 ang gamit ng Musika.
Maganda daw ayon sa mga nakarinig.
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12AT7 ang gamit ng Musika.
Maganda daw ayon sa mga nakarinig.
Maraming salamat sir Arnold. Hanga ako sa pagiging 'game' mo sa topic.
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i'm just honest bro. sometimes brutally honest, and that gets me into trouble :D
when my friend's musika is done, he'll bring it to my place. not to torture it, or anything like that, but to aprreciate a creation just like anything else.
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without giving away "trade secrets" i can look at both pre-amps and do a review, i can give you topology but will not reveal the circuit. and then you form your own opinions after.
tubes are not that hard to figure out. the tono violin, judging from the tube compliments could very well be an iteration of the foreplay albiet with octals. the musika otoh have more tubes, so i guess it could very well be gain stage cum follower type but with more stages.
just a few minutes under the chassis, and one can figure out the circuit. the violin is more like a choice of parts, the musika i still have to see. ;D
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without giving away "trade secrets" i can look at both pre-amps and do a review, i can give you topology but will not reveal the circuit. and then you form your own opinions after.
tubes are not that hard to figure out. the tono violin, judging from the tube compliments could very well be an iteration of the foreplay albiet with octals. the musika otoh have more tubes, so i guess it could very well be gain stage cum follower type but with more stages.
just a few minutes under the chassis, and one can figure out the circuit. the violin is more like a choice of parts, the musika i still have to see. ;D
Sir Tony , your thoughts on Musika's use of tube regulation please. I understand you havent seen what's under the hood but as I heard, very few implement this method-worldwide. Any thoughts, opinions welcome.
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tony, there are no trade secrets with tubes.
GC/CF configuration has been around since tubes were invented ;D Conrad Johnson uses them, as well as many other commercial vendors. Bottlehead uses them but I don't agree that the GC/CF circuit should be credited to them. There's nothing special with the Foreplay, it sounds good to give credit where credit is due.
While the Violin was tuned by ear, we have the necessary measurements to back it up. So I should say that there was some design thought (not copy cat) put into that product, and of course we have quality parts, that's a fact.
The Musika has more tubes because of the mm phono section. Yes, it is tube regulated, it is a fact. The Violin has a more traditional passive CLCLC, it is a fact. No need to hide that.
We can speak in technical terms, fine, but when taken as an entire package, it all becomes subjective ;)
Gusto kong i-half-topic ng konti... I would like to challenge any preamp, including the Musika, AMX, Conrad Johnson, Manley, what have you, against my single stage triode preamp with constant current source, constant current bias, and MOSFET regulation. ;D
(di ko sinabing mananalo yung akin ha, challenge lang) he he he
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arnold,
dyan ako takot bro sa pagiging "brutally honest" mo! ;D
i'm just honest bro. sometimes brutally honest, and that gets me into trouble :D
when my friend's musika is done, he'll bring it to my place. not to torture it, or anything like that, but to aprreciate a creation just like anything else.
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tube regulator?
that's what i'm using with my preamp! :) ;D
Sir Tony , your thoughts on Musika's use of tube regulation please. I understand you havent seen what's under the hood but as I heard, very few implement this method-worldwide. Any thoughts, opinions welcome.
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tube regulator?
that's what i'm using with my preamp! :) ;D
fdegrove yan no? la akong makuhang ganyan tube kaya di ko ma try... :(
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fdegrove yan no? la akong makuhang ganyan tube kaya di ko ma try... :(
OT: for those who already tried,
how's frank's vs the aikido?
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jojod has john broskie's aikido...
s2kov has fdegrove ultimate...
arnoldc has "my own" ;D ;D ;D
KELAN ANG SHOOTOUT?? ;D
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yes, it's frank's preamp design. i'm not sure others will like the sound since the linestage is just producing a passive sound! :)
of course, the phonostage is a different thing! ;D
fdegrove yan no? la akong makuhang ganyan tube kaya di ko ma try... :(
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NAKU! :o
pwede ba tayu tayo lng para sikreto yung nde magustuhan tunog! ;D
jojod has john broskie's aikido...
s2kov has fdegrove ultimate...
arnoldc has "my own" ;D ;D ;D
KELAN ANG SHOOTOUT?? ;D
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ayos lang yan andy. sige tayo tayo at wag na lang natin sabihin... he he he
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I also have a rendition of Frank's preamp in stock form before but was dismantled.
I also have a rendition of Frank's preamp with SY's constant current source and MOSFET pass regulator.
arnold,
yan "my own" mo yun originaly single triode then evolved to ccs and fet regulator? or did you used a different tube altogether?
btw, what's the difference with a constant current source and a constant current bias?
cheers
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ayuz! cge eto entry ko! ;D
(http://img60.imageshack.us/img60/8052/dscn18908xo.jpg)
ayos lang yan andy. sige tayo tayo at wag na lang natin sabihin... he he he
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jojod, different tube yan. kagabi lang yan, muntik pang masira ;D ginamitan ko ng loadline calculation yan hah! dahil wala yang tube na yan sa TubeCAD ;D ;D ;D
constant current source, constant current bias = marketing ek ek to confuse the newbies :P
andy, hindi pa pogi an ang laban ha? ;D i-post ko bukas yung preamp ko ;D
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ahh.....hahahaha! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
yan lng yata pwede ko ilaban eh! ;D
andy, hindi pa pogi an ang laban ha? ;D i-post ko bukas yung preamp ko ;D
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andy, don't think of this as laban/competition no it's not. it's about hearing different preamps. aba fdegrove design ata yan, john broskie yung aikido, so it will be an honor hearing them.
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ayuz, tanggal ang kaba ko kpag ganyan! ;D
andy, don't think of this as laban/competition no it's not. it's about hearing different preamps. aba fdegrove design ata yan, john broskie yung aikido, so it will be an honor hearing them.
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Sir Tony , your thoughts on Musika's use of tube regulation please. I understand you havent seen what's under the hood but as I heard, very few implement this method-worldwide. Any thoughts, opinions welcome.
nothing new in regulation of the preamp, i know that as early as 1980, audio research used bipolars and zener diode strings to regulate the psu of their pre-amp.
there is nothing that we in manila can think of that they in the states haven't done before. there is no shame in that, the deal is to come with products that give the end-buyers good value for the money, that is all there is to this. ;D
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nothing new in regulation of the preamp, i know that as early as 1980, audio research used bipolars and zener diode strings to regulate the psu of their pre-amp.
there is nothing that we in manila can think of that they in the states haven't done before. there is no shame in that, the deal is to come with products that give the end-buyers good value for the money, that is all there is to this. ;D
Salamat sir ..
I was just wondering why there are very few implementations then and now... Nakakataka lang. Baka kako.. mahirap gawin/konti lang may alam gumawa or mahirap maghanap ng tube regulators, etc..
Senyors Andy, Jojo and Arnold, puedeng maki-kinig sa session? :)
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mark, lahat halos ng commercial products talagang pinaghusayan ang power supply. if you look at conrad johnson's PV10A for example, matindi ang power supply but the circuit is the common grounded cathode->cathode follower.
meron mga tao, gusto tube rectifier, pag may diode ayaw bilhin. isa pang reason, minsan gusto mag tube roll sa rectifier.
yung tube regulation, kailangan ng extrang mga tubo for that, which means additional filament load, additional heat, additional sockets, atbp. samantalang kung passive regulation, choke and or resistor + capacitor, ayos ka na. of course may limitation with this.
kung solid state regulation, syempre may additional parts din, yun nga lang mas maliit sya, less heat, no additional transformer winding, atbp.
kanya kanya yan eh. sabi nga ni tony, pareho lang yan (tube vs. solidstate regulation)
re: listening session, fine with me. alternatively, you can drop by the house if you want to listen to the rest of my gears, dito lang ako sa makati.
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Salamat sir ..
I was just wondering why there are very few implementations then and now... Nakakataka lang. Baka kako.. mahirap gawin/konti lang may alam gumawa or mahirap maghanap ng tube regulators, etc..
Senyors Andy, Jojo and Arnold, puedeng maki-kinig sa session? :)
we have the same situation with ss amps, uso-uso lang yan, so now the fad is becoming regulated psu, people are never content with what they have, we have that "keeping up with the jones'es" mentality that is why people always have something to look up for..
me, i see no reason why you have to go regulated psu, when the one you have now works just fine. upgrading does not always bring good results, just different ones.
if you know your electronics coupled with thevenin and nortons's theories, then regulated psu's are a walk in the park.
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tony, the reason i can't just "walk in the park" is i only know Norton's...
Anti-virus ;D
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tony, the reason i can't just "walk in the park" is i only know Norton's...
Anti-virus ;D
;D these regulator thing are just but applications of know theories, nothing mysterious about them. and as with others you learn by doing.
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Sir Arnoldc, iyung bagong pre-amp niyo ba magiging Tono Violin II? Or i-uupgrade lang iyung Violin?
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rascal, meron akong ginawa na isang preamp noon pa for myself na naging basis ng isa pang preamp for Tono. It's the Tono Piano na di pa nilalabas, pero dinala ko na yan nung last Hi-Fi show 2005. Yan yung isang tambak na iteration at listening test ang nangyari, kasi di nila gusto yung tunog nung una, ha ha ha!
Yung preamp na natapos ko kagabi ay iba din, at hindi yan considered as Tono product.
Meron din akong Foreplay na nasa hiraman, at 12B4 na nasa hiraman din. Kaya ako gumawa ng bago dahil pag uwi ko ng bahay nung Martes eh di ako makapatugtog at ala pala akong preamp :D
Yung Violin 2, naka MOSFET regulation, series pass. Upgrade lang yan.
nangako nga pala ako ng picture for andy...
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7633/dsc013237fi.th.jpg) (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc013237fi.jpg)
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Mahirap talaga kapag maraming humihiram ... lalo na kapag ayaw isoli ... ;D
Mahirap din iyung maraming puwedeng ipahiram ;D ;D ;D
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jojod, different tube yan. kagabi lang yan, muntik pang masira ;D ginamitan ko ng loadline calculation yan hah! dahil wala yang tube na yan sa TubeCAD ;D ;D ;D
constant current source, constant current bias = marketing ek ek to confuse the newbies :P
hi,
ok so it's a new tube project all along.
i thought there was something electronically new in that description. i got confused... so that officially qualifies me as a newbie. ;D
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he he he, well technicall you are NOT a newbie :D
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bilis gumawa ah! ;D
rascal, meron akong ginawa na isang preamp noon pa for myself na naging basis ng isa pang preamp for Tono. It's the Tono Piano na di pa nilalabas, pero dinala ko na yan nung last Hi-Fi show 2005. Yan yung isang tambak na iteration at listening test ang nangyari, kasi di nila gusto yung tunog nung una, ha ha ha!
Yung preamp na natapos ko kagabi ay iba din, at hindi yan considered as Tono product.
Meron din akong Foreplay na nasa hiraman, at 12B4 na nasa hiraman din. Kaya ako gumawa ng bago dahil pag uwi ko ng bahay nung Martes eh di ako makapatugtog at ala pala akong preamp :D
Yung Violin 2, naka MOSFET regulation, series pass. Upgrade lang yan.
nangako nga pala ako ng picture for andy...
(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/7633/dsc013237fi.th.jpg) (http://img126.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc013237fi.jpg)
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andy, that is my preamp prototyping rig. with it, i can prototype any 9-pin tube with filament from 6.3volts to 40volts. he he.
for the amp, meron din akong prototyping rig. from octal, to 4-pin, 5-pin power tube, 9-pin, 8-pin driver tube, single ended or push pull topology.
:D
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dapat pala mabutas na din yung nde ko nagagamit na aluminum sheet at makapaggawa na din power tranny para sa prototype! ;D
andy, that is my preamp prototyping rig. with it, i can prototype any 9-pin tube with filament from 6.3volts to 40volts. he he.
for the amp, meron din akong prototyping rig. from octal, to 4-pin, 5-pin power tube, 9-pin, 8-pin driver tube, single ended or push pull topology.
:D
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mark, lahat halos ng commercial products talagang pinaghusayan ang power supply. if you look at conrad johnson's PV10A for example, matindi ang power supply but the circuit is the common grounded cathode->cathode follower.
meron mga tao, gusto tube rectifier, pag may diode ayaw bilhin. isa pang reason, minsan gusto mag tube roll sa rectifier.
yung tube regulation, kailangan ng extrang mga tubo for that, which means additional filament load, additional heat, additional sockets, atbp. samantalang kung passive regulation, choke and or resistor + capacitor, ayos ka na. of course may limitation with this.
kung solid state regulation, syempre may additional parts din, yun nga lang mas maliit sya, less heat, no additional transformer winding, atbp.
kanya kanya yan eh. sabi nga ni tony, pareho lang yan (tube vs. solidstate regulation)
re: listening session, fine with me. alternatively, you can drop by the house if you want to listen to the rest of my gears, dito lang ako sa makati.
Thanks!
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suggest ko lang baka may mga user reviews &/or listeners impressions instead of comparing (pagsabungin) these two fine pinoy preamps. mahirap yung laging nagpapagalingan walang kahinatnan yan kundi sa huli magsisiraan lang, pinoy pah! pls post na rin partnered amps used para may idea what amps matches well. para lang magka-idea publiko ng signature sound nila at kung tumama sa lotto :)
pangarap time lang p0h, libre naman....thanks ;D
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My apologies for reviving a 2yr old thread, but was hoping to get some feedback since the last post.
Anyone?
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I think it's a draw, or maybe I just could not hear the difference since it's not a home audition ;D
I have heard both of this using the same power amp and speakers and source when I brought my Tono Violin to Mang Rod's place for the fix of the humming problem I got. I can say that both preamps are very musical, my Tono Violin however is using an upgraded 5692 CBS brown base + RCA tube rectifier + mundorf gold caps while the Musika preamp is using stock tubes. The musika is using more tubes than the tono and it has a fono stage so the price is a little higher.
IMO, you cannot go wrong with either of the two.
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I think it's a draw, or maybe I just could not hear the difference since it's not a home audition ;D
I have heard both of this using the same power amp and speakers and source when I brought my Tono Violin to Mang Rod's place for the fix of the humming problem I got. I can say that both preamps are very musical, my Tono Violin however is using an upgraded 5692 CBS brown base + RCA tube rectifier + mundorf gold caps while the Musika preamp is using stock tubes. The musika is using more tubes than the tono and it has a fono stage so the price is a little higher.
IMO, you cannot go wrong with either of the two.
Thanks for sharing bro - appreciate it! ;D
Anybody else?
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Have also experienced both, using same system.. I agree with sir Threadlock, you can't go wrong between these two... but for me i would say that I like much better the musika wherein it can give you the full details and musicality.... but then, still its up to you which do you prefer...
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Magkaiba Tubes = Magkaiba Character
BUT both are great pre-amps!
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Synergy!
Depends on the rest of your system how the two preamps will perform. Also depends on your listening preference. Nobody can say which one is better.
HTH.
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I think it's a draw, or maybe I just could not hear the difference since it's not a home audition ;D
I have heard both of this using the same power amp and speakers and source when I brought my Tono Violin to Mang Rod's place for the fix of the humming problem I got. I can say that both preamps are very musical, my Tono Violin however is using an upgraded 5692 CBS brown base + RCA tube rectifier + mundorf gold caps while the Musika preamp is using stock tubes. The musika is using more tubes than the tono and it has a fono stage so the price is a little higher.
IMO, you cannot go wrong with either of the two.
Compared to AMX and JJ LAB preamps ?
;D
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Compared to AMX and JJ LAB preamps ?
;D
that's a very good question. ;D
or should we start a new topic: "Pinoy Tube DIYers Comparison"
sorry, medyo OT ata, :)
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JJ Labs or JD Labs??
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pakinggan nyo nalang, i have a tono violin 6sn7 preamp here for you audition, just tell me you are welcome.... ;)
....did i say its for sale? ;D
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marami factors to consider. but matching with your existing system is important. pwedeng maganda sa system mo ung pre-amp na mapipili mo pero sa ibang system di match. mas ok if you can try the pre-amp of your choice in your system.
larry
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that's a very good question. ;D
or should we start a new topic: "Pinoy Tube DIYers Comparison"
sorry, medyo OT ata, :)
Maganda yang bro. Kung pwede nga lang sana magkaroon ng Tube show din for Pinoy DIYers only para MAPAKITA ANG GALING NG PINOY eh. Hehehe.
;D
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Maganda yang bro. Kung pwede nga lang sana magkaroon ng Tube show din for Pinoy DIYers only para MAPAKITA ANG GALING NG PINOY eh. Hehehe.
;D
Actually, the Hifi show that started today in Alabang - has a room for DIY'ers to showcase their wares ;)
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Synergy!
Depends on the rest of your system how the two preamps will perform. Also depends on your listening preference. Nobody can say which one is better.
HTH.
What if a DIY customizer only does preamps per order - so wala syang exact preamp for the kind of poweramp that you have.
Would it help if the DIY'er looks at the innards of your poweramp along with all the tech manuals & schematics of that amp to properly design a preamp that would match your amp?
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What if a DIY customizer only does preamps per order - so wala syang exact preamp for the kind of poweramp that you have.
Would it help if the DIY'er looks at the innards of your poweramp along with all the tech manuals & schematics of that amp to properly design a preamp that would match your amp?
Just looking at the manual tech specs (even without looking at the innards and the schematics), a DIYer who understand amp specs can properly design a matching pre-amp
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Just looking at the manual tech specs (even without looking at the innards and the schematics), a DIYer who understand amp specs can properly design a matching pre-amp
Thanks - that would probably be my route........if not for that long delay on my poweramp hayyyyy :P
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If your getting the rotel amp with icepower modules you have to know the input impredance of your amp so that the preamp can drive them properly.
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If your getting the rotel amp with icepower modules you have to know the input impredance of your amp so that the preamp can drive them properly.
Ganda nga sana......but I just got an old Rotel poweramp.
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Reviving a thread that is exactly 4 years ago ;D
may production pa ba ng mga preamps na 'to ngayon, tono and musika? kung meron, may mga improvements ba na ginawa after 4 years? How much na ang prices ngayon ng mga pre-amps na 'to? wala lang, nangangati lang po ;D ;D ;D
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ohs! just read this thread i just acquired a pre owned musica....and i can attest it that it sounded great (for me) compared to what i owned prior to it - cayin sc2 and counterpoint forgot the model...
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ohs! just read this thread i just acquired a pre owned musica....and i can attest it that it sounded great (for me) compared to what i owned prior to it - cayin sc2 and counterpoint forgot the model...
Wow, good for you and your newly acquired rotel mono-mono power amp bro ;-)
Can you pm me how much you acquired that Musika? Sana may makita din ako.. Thanks..
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my friend has a musika pre amp. i'll post the picture kung musika talaga. naka tambak lang ..
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my friend has a musika pre amp. i'll post the picture kung musika talaga. naka tambak lang ..
???Not a good compliment.................
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my friend has a musika pre amp. i'll post the picture kung musika talaga. naka tambak lang ..
Please pm me if ever he wants to sell it bro, as long as it is still in good working condition ;)
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without giving away "trade secrets" i can look at both pre-amps and do a review, i can give you topology but will not reveal the circuit. and then you form your own opinions after.
tubes are not that hard to figure out. the tono violin, judging from the tube compliments could very well be an iteration of the foreplay albiet with octals. the musika otoh have more tubes, so i guess it could very well be gain stage cum follower type but with more stages.
just a few minutes under the chassis, and one can figure out the circuit. the violin is more like a choice of parts, the musika i still have to see. ;D
i have seen both..... and listened to both side by side.....and to my ears, there are no differences that i can tell, they both sound fabuloso..... :D
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/leoman53/IMG_2660_zpsf275dbc9.jpg)
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Sir Tony ano specs nung white amp? Looks good, bet good sounding din..
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Sir Tony ano specs nung white amp? Looks good, bet good sounding din..
that is a pp 6v6 amp good for about 14 watts....you should hear it sometime...:D
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:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)
May masamang balak ang mama. ;)
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that is a pp 6v6 amp good for about 14 watts....you should hear it sometime...:D
will do sometime this month sir sana visit ako sayo...pwede ba kahit weekdays?
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will do sometime this month sir sana visit ako sayo...pwede ba kahit weekdays?
pwede, just call me beforehand...that type amp is on it's way to the land down under...:D
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Alam ko sa tranny lang nagkakatalo ang dalawang good sounding pre amp tube na ito at sa tubong ginagamit. Pero kung pareho ang tubo at quality ng tranny gagamitin, siguradong di masyado magkakalayo SQ ng mga ito. Heard the Tono way back 2005 i think from a friend. 1 week ko yata nahiram ito. Musika naman kapag bumibisita ako kay Mang Rod.
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the Musika i got was also modified by john p.......but i have no idea what was modified...i did not see he original Musika to be able to make a comparison..
the Musika has a phono stage, the Tono is only a line stage....
the Musika is so parts laden, ang daming piyesa, the Tono is a simple implementation of the Broskie CCDA, just like my small 6H23 line preamp at lower voltages.....
like my 6H23 line amp, there is only 1 cap in the signal cap in the TONO, the Musika had 3....