Author Topic: Superpro DAC 707 Owners: Please Read (if you are using a PC as source)  (Read 24630 times)

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Offline Invinciible

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let me give you a short recap of my very very early Sunday morning. :D  i decided quite impulsively to reread the original post of the "Computer as a music source" thread in pinoydvd...

i have read this thread several times already, but i only got to really understand all the details now that i have familiarized myself with common terms and software.  previous to reading it today, i had already switched to foobar2k, as it is open source, and has support for virtually any format. that's when i noticed the mention of Asio4all.  did a bit of research and found out that this is a foolproof way of bypassing most onboard soundcard processing.  all you need to do is download and install supportive players such as winamp and of course foobar2k, install the asio4all driver, and also download and install the asio plugin of your chosen player.  oh btw, i am assumming that you are using a windows xp or vista laptop...

now here is where it get's interesting.  again, quite randomly, i decided to include the words "superpro dac 707" to my google search string which originally was "using asio4all with foobar2k"  ;D

lo and behold, google produced links containing complaints of the superpro suddenly producing drop outs and clicking with hisses when using foobar and asio4all due to the fact that it uses the generic usb dac driver of windows.  i know i know, there's a possibility that you are thinking that this is not useful as you are currently using a different player, like itunes.  but bear with me.   ;)

just this year, somebody found a solution to the bugs.  and this solution involves installing the specific driver of our beloved 707's usb chip.  supposedly this helps you configure the 707 completely and absolutely as the driver is controlled via an icon on the system tray.  so basically, this allows you to set it to 44hz ALL the time.  also provides seamless integration with asio4all.   ;D  in the first place kasi, i assumed that since i was using a usb cable, that i was immediately bypassing the soundcard.  this very simple process at the very least gives us peace of mind that the dac is bypassing.  so if you are willing, i suggest you download and install asio4all,  foobar2000, its asio plugin, and then read this very helpful thread...

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/useful-info-superpro-707-usb-dac-owners-maybe-other-usb-dacs-too-410599/

after doing so, and configuring your foobar to output to asio4all v2 with the usb dac left and right enabled, and also using the 707 specific driver mentioned in the thread above, you should now be able to stream 16, 20 and 24bit data perfectly, and also have the option to use kernel streaming and hardware buffering, which all help combat and minimize the dreaded latency.  also installing the driver totally eliminates the bugs mentioned in any case.

here are some more threads that might help bring coherance to my very messy pm. ;D

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/asio4all-explanation-221237/
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Foobar-Super-Pro-707-USB-Dac-Asio-noisedropouts
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t69648.html
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/useful-info-superpro-707-usb-dac-owners-maybe-other-usb-dacs-too-410599/

i have downloaded everything but i am waaaaaay too sleepy to be able to configure and assess objectively.  i shall rest first.  but if you have the time and are willing please do try this and let me know if there is an improvement.

i would follow the settings posted in the headfi faq thread, except after installing the specific usb driver, i would tick the kernel streaming and the hardware buffering boxes as the only reason the poster from headfi advised against enabling them was that the dac was still using the generic driver and thus was not able to process these settings properly.  at it's worst, this experiment should provide no improvement.  at best, it might provide even better sq!  hard to imagine, but like i always say, there's only one way to find out right? ;D
« Last Edit: Aug 17, 2009 at 06:59 AM by Invinciible »
There's only one way to find out right?

Offline lestercallanta

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Have you ever tried using your sound card's optical or coaxial output instead? I have contacted the seller of Super Pro DAC 707 USB last week from diykits.com and he did confirm that the digital inputs of the Super Pro DAC 707 fully support up to 24 bit/192khz audio. The USB port is at 16 bit/48khz. Am planning to use the toslink output of my MacBook which outputs up to 24/96 once my Super Pro DAC 707 USB arrive this week.

Offline pinoyhd

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I am playing flac's and ape's via foobar2k.
In combo with asio, my PC acts as pure transport and sends unmodified digital stream to my Onkyo TX-NA900 receiver via coaxial out.  I figure Onkyo should have better DAC than my onboard audio DAC (mobo is ECS C-19A SLI).

It works, but I still prefer the CD-input direct from my Sony CDP-227esd.

You should have better results with your DAC. 

Online Stagea

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24-bit 192kHz works great on my Cambridge 840C and my MF V-DAC, using either an optical or a coaxial connection. Definitely better than the 16-bit 48Khz max of the V-DAC's usb input, especially if you're playing higher quality content.

Studio master recordings (I buy them from Linn Records) in this layout sound like real good vinyl imho. These are normally recorded in 24-bit depth, at 192, 96, or 88kHz sampling.

Offline pinoyhd

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I am playing flac's and ape's via foobar2k.
In combo with asio, my PC acts as pure transport and sends unmodified digital stream to my Onkyo TX-NA900 receiver via coaxial out.  I figure Onkyo should have better DAC than my onboard audio DAC (mobo is ECS C-19A SLI).

It works, but I still prefer the CD-input direct from my Sony CDP-227esd.

You should have better results with your DAC. 


I verified last night; I was not using asio at all. I was using WASAPI and output via S/PDIF (co-ax)

It seems for bit-exact output, we have 3 options, of which only asio and wasapi have  been updated in 2009:

1. ASIO support 1.2.7
Updated: 2009-03-22   Adds ASIO output support.

2. Kernel Streaming support 1.2.2
Updated: 2006-08-04   Allows bit-exact playback bypassing Windows kernel mixer. Activated through playback / output preferences ...

3. WASAPI output support 2.1
Updated: 2009-05-19
Adds Windows Audio Session API exclusive mode output support, allowing bit-exact output and muting all ...

Offline bass_nut

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it was plug and play with my toshiba laptops (running on either oem Vista 64bit or XP) as i use iTunes (regularly updated) .. no skipping, no crackling, no noise injected

it outperformed built-in dac of Pioneer DV610avS and Toshiba DVD player SD-K390

associated gears/source: CDs ripped to iTunes lossless files or direct play CD, Little Dot mk ll (set on gain 7) with aftermarket tubes Mullard ef92 and 6N6P, Grados/Alessandros MS2i, MS1, sr 225 (modified), sr325iS, HF-2 F1, Denon AH-D2000, Koss ksc75, paololorenzo rca cables, paololorenzo 75ohms coax cables, Monster usb cable, DIY power cables  
« Last Edit: Dec 04, 2009 at 06:43 AM by bass_nut »

Offline lestercallanta

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Fiinally, my Super Pro DAC 707 USB by Pop Pulse arrived today from www.obadimports.com

I've noticed that having both Toslink and Coaxial inputs occupied with a live source produced a ticking sound to the signal. I tested all digital inputs including USB and they were all good. However, when I was reconnecting the PSU I noticed a sudden drop in sq. The overall sound had limited gain and every detail was lost. Disconnecting and reconnecting the power solved it.

It works natively on the MacBook with the MacBook as a 24/96kHz source. I played my 24/96kHz files from linnrecords.com and they all sounded lush with good midrange warmth and detail on my PSB Alpha B1 thru the SI T-amp. I also have this setup as a DAC receiver from the LG Plasma which has a Toslink output. So all the HDMI connected devices to the TV are passed on to the LG's Toslink audio output for 2 channel goodness! I think its a good strategy before getting an AVR later on.
« Last Edit: Dec 08, 2009 at 12:20 PM by lestercallanta »

Offline lestercallanta

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Out of curiosity, I installed Windows in my MacBook via Snow Leopard Boot Camp just to see how it works with the built-in Toslink output of the Mac. I was surprised that the Apple-supplied drivers for Windows is well implemented and works amazingly well with iTunes for Windows without any additional drivers to download and install! If I would nitpick on this setup is that I cannot seem to select anything higher than 24 bit and 48.1khz sampling rate unlike in OS X, where the native CoreAudio support of the Toslink port can support [email protected]

I turned off all enhancements including loudness setting in the control panel and listened to my uncompressed AIFF rips in my iTunes library, and also the 24 96 files from linn records. To my ears, the music were just as revealing under Windows as I first auditioned them in OS X  :)

Offline ash0279

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Hi Invincible,

First off, thanks for starting this thread dedicated for those using PC as a source. Anyway, I already have my Superpro DAC 707 and its been burning-in for 24+ hours now using WDM usbaudio.sys (XP SP3) + Foobar2000 w/ output on ASIO4ALL.

So far, contrary to mentioned on other threads, Im not experiencing any glitches using XP default drivers, also im very much contented w/ the SQ.

Now, my problem is that I still wanted to enable the Kernel Streaming output, which we all know this wont work using the default XP drivers.

I followed this by heart --> http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/useful-info-superpro-707-usb-dac-owners-maybe-other-usb-dacs-too-410599/ but like one of the users mentioned, i also encountered these error depending on which driver version i've used:

"please plug in "USB UPnP Sound Device" and install driver again"
or
"please plug in "C Media 108 USB Sound" and install driver again"


Im pretty much sure, the device is there, because i made sure my sound is playing before each attempt. I even did manual "update driver" on the device manager and forced it to point on the driver's location, but still XP cant recognize the INF file.

Man, how you did it on your PC's? Im really contented now, but I wont stop craving until I get to see how this Superpro 707 works using the KS (Kernel Streaming) output..

If its ok to contact you directly,, I very much appreciate if you can pls do PM me your contact number..

Offline geriboy

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hi sir ash! i'm just wondering, why do you need to use the Kernel Streaming output for the super pro DAC? any difference between using the Kernel Streaming output & ASIO4ALL (which I'm currently using in my desktop computer)? thanks!

Offline bass_nut

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Welcome to PinoyDVD doc Gerry !!!  8)

Offline geriboy

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OT muna: thanks doc fer! it's been months since nag-member ako dito sa pinoydvd (you gave me this forum when I saw your superpro dac & rca cables @ headphiles). ngayon lang ako nag-post because of the super pro DAC :)

Offline bass_nut

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OT
i've learn (and continuously learning) tons of valuable infos and discovered lots of very good buddies here at PinoyDVD doc Gerry .. just shoot your inquiries as we have very kind friends here who generously share their experience and expertize  ;)

on topic:
when we meet kindly please give me tips on other high tech stuff and infos as i only use iTunes on my laptop (with Windows Vista 64bit) which is flawless with SuperPro 707DAC.. just trying to explore or sort of max out the full potential of this very good performing yet reasonably priced external dac  8)

and thanks to koya Capt. Skee and brother Tamy for making the 707DAC locally available for our enjoyment of our hobby  8)

Offline geriboy

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@ doc fer: Konti rin ang alam ko re: techie stuff, but I'm glad to help & share what I know.

Offline ash0279

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hi sir ash! i'm just wondering, why do you need to use the Kernel Streaming output for the super pro DAC? any difference between using the Kernel Streaming output & ASIO4ALL (which I'm currently using in my desktop computer)? thanks!

Doc Gerry (i presume, as per bass_nut' salutation),, actually, Im very much satisfied w/ its current setting using the ASIO4ALL, as I've learned further its already utilizing a Kernel Streaming-like algorithm, so in this case I think I need not to push further anymore w/ the KS output.

The only reason maybe is that the I.T in me, has seduced me to explore, where I even messed the whole thing up, resulting to a 2hr downtime, undoing all the manual changes I've made in an attempt to force-install the CM108 driver,, (i.e, removing the XP driver cache, removing USBAUDIO.sys on sp3.cab, manually editing the registry),,, end of the day, i will settle on the XP WDM driver + ASIO4ALL..


Offline geriboy

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i see... thanks for the info sir ash...

Offline ash0279

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Waahh! Now here is the drawback,, wife is very pleased w/ the SQ now coming from the laptop+Superpro 707,, guess what, she's urging me to sell now my beloved Technics SL-P770 4DAC 18bit Hi Res CDP...  :o

will post soon in the B/S section for interest check..

Offline bass_nut

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sir ash0279.. i tried 707DAC with an old Toshiba dvd/cd player through its optical route.. music CD output SQ improved so much  ;)

Offline laukong

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Newbie questions (for clarification):

1. for 24bit 192khz audiophile CDs, played thru windows pc, super DAC 707 (asio4all) connected thru USB,  it will be downgraded to 16 bit/48khz?

2.  my PC has no onboard audio digital output, only USB, could i just add/use a cheapo PCI audio card with coaxial output, connect it to the super DAC 707 (coaxial, asio4all)  and be able to maximize the full 24bit 192khz?

3.  Is it also possible to use a cheapo DVD player with coaxial output, connected to super DAC 707 (coaxial), and get the maximum 24bit 192khz?

Thanks!


Offline romymartinez

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Just curious if anyone directly compared DVD player + SuperPro combo vs. entry level CDPs from NAD, Cambridge or Marantz.

Sir bass_nut, I know it's not a fair comparison, but how would you compare the Superpro + CVD combo vs your TOTL Cayin CD-17?

Regards.

romymartinez


Offline bass_nut

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Newbie questions (for clarification):

1. for 24bit 192khz audiophile CDs, played thru windows pc, super DAC 707 (asio4all) connected thru USB,  it will be downgraded to 16 bit/48khz?

audio CDs are 16bit regardless of audiophile markings sir laukong.. 24bit pertains to the master copy which we will not be able to have as commercial commodity.. these master copies stay with the recording company and/or the owner of the musical piece  ;)

2.  my PC has no onboard audio digital output, only USB, could i just add/use a cheapo PCI audio card with coaxial output, connect it to the super DAC 707 (coaxial, asio4all)  and be able to maximize the full 24bit 192khz?

no need for outboard soundcard as it will duplicate the work of 707DAC... usb signal from pc/laptop is digital format which will be converted by 707DAC to analog signal to be fed to amplifier or amplifiers in case mono block amps were used  ;)

3.  Is it also possible to use a cheapo DVD player with coaxial output, connected to super DAC 707 (coaxial), and get the maximum 24bit 192khz?
i will not be able to determine bit rate sampling but cheapo dvd/cd player coax or optical out will be accepted by digital input jacks of 707DAc.. as per my actual experience the SQ improved so much on said config  ;)

Thanks!



Offline laukong

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@bass_nut

Thanks for the replies :)

I was browsing some CD retailers and saw several audiophile CDs with the 24bit / 192khz, audiophile markings, selling at higher prices than usual.   Just wondering if these have better SQs than normal CDs.

In reference to sir lestercallanta's and sir stagea's posts, from my understanding, usb is limited to 16bit/48khz, coaxial/toslink/optical has the  capability to achieve higher rates, that is 24bit / 192khz if our music CDs and connections are such.

Since the super dac 707 is capable upto 24bit/192khz, can we maximize it by using 24bit/192khz CDs together with coaxial/toslink/optical connections instead of USB? Thereby gettting better SQ?

pls. pardon my kakulitan, thanks again :)

Offline bass_nut

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hi bro Romy,

Cayin 17a has a very good internal dac with dual burr-brown chips and a hefty independent power supply free from the rest of the CD player circuitry power demand.. incidentally it has same sampling rate as 707DAC, that is, 24/192khz

the lazy me have not done a direct comparo yet Cayin 17a vs 707DAC.. what we were able to compare last year with Cayin 17a was a well implemented DIY external dac cased on a big metal box.. its spec has lower sampling rate of 96khz ... as per my ears, associated gears and source materials, the Cayin 17a won by a notch especially at the mids and highs ;)

will try a direct comparo when i have enough tempo and update this thread ;)

cheers !!!
fer

Offline bass_nut

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@bass_nut

Thanks for the replies :)

I was browsing some CD retailers and saw several audiophile CDs with the 24bit / 192khz, audiophile markings, selling at higher prices than usual.   Just wondering if these have better SQs than normal CDs.

audiophile grade usually indicate better recording and or remastering with use of much better modern machines.. hence a bit higher price point

In reference to sir lestercallanta's and sir stagea's posts, from my understanding, usb is limited to 16bit/48khz, coaxial/toslink/optical has the  capability to achieve higher rates, that is 24bit / 192khz if our music CDs and connections are such.

may be correct as usb has inherent limits... with regards spdif the SQ somewhat better

Since the super dac 707 is capable upto 24bit/192khz, can we maximize it by using 24bit/192khz CDs together with coaxial/toslink/optical connections instead of USB? Thereby gettting better SQ?

indeed as 707DAC has spdif input jacks aside from usb port  ;)

pls. pardon my kakulitan, thanks again :)

no problem bro L ..btw, i am not expert.. simply a music hobbyist  ;)

cheers !!!

Offline JojoD818

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ot:

Doc Geri welcome to PinoyDVD!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Offline geriboy

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another OT: salamat sir jojoD!

Online Stagea

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Redbook CDs are always 16-bit 44kHz. The so called "24-bit CDs" sold in your favorite record store are still 16-bit 44kHz recordings. They were just mastered in a higher resolution to minimize losses during postprocessing.

You can run Studio Master recordings, DVD-Audio or Bluray discs if you want to take advantage of the 24-bit capability.

@bass_nut

Thanks for the replies :)

I was browsing some CD retailers and saw several audiophile CDs with the 24bit / 192khz, audiophile markings, selling at higher prices than usual.   Just wondering if these have better SQs than normal CDs.

In reference to sir lestercallanta's and sir stagea's posts, from my understanding, usb is limited to 16bit/48khz, coaxial/toslink/optical has the  capability to achieve higher rates, that is 24bit / 192khz if our music CDs and connections are such.

Since the super dac 707 is capable upto 24bit/192khz, can we maximize it by using 24bit/192khz CDs together with coaxial/toslink/optical connections instead of USB? Thereby gettting better SQ?

pls. pardon my kakulitan, thanks again :)

Online Stagea

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I have compared the V-DAC with NAD and Cambridge players. With the same quality source (16-bit 44kHz), the 340C and the C515BEE edge out the VDAC in terms of detail. The C515BEE has a more expansive stage, but the 340C has a deeper stage... the V-DAC is somewhere in between. The V-DAC has a warm relaxed sound, but does not have the low or high end extension of either CD player.

Running studio master recordings (24-bit 96kHz and 24-bit 192kHz) versus CDs, the V-DAC clearly beats either player (340C and C515BEE) in terms of smoothness, insight and inner detail. In short, if you have a good source, it can sound better... but with the same CD quality source, it's about even.

Running them side by side, the V-DAC does not remotely approach the 740A or the 840A in terms of layering, speed, sharpness of attack, pinpoint imaging, and sound stage stability. Then again, we're comparing it with a CDP 6x its price.

Just curious if anyone directly compared DVD player + SuperPro combo vs. entry level CDPs from NAD, Cambridge or Marantz.

Sir bass_nut, I know it's not a fair comparison, but how would you compare the Superpro + CVD combo vs your TOTL Cayin CD-17?

Regards.

romymartinez

Offline laukong

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Thanks for the replies :)

Offline bass_nut

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the external power supply & the main dac unit... not in picture are other accessories like various cables that are included in the package (i included an eneloop AA battery for size comparison)

 
external power supply on closer look... 12vDC @ 5.0A