Topic: BD PQ/AQ comments

[Clondalkin]

Three Kings

I'm still at halfway point as I forced myself to go to bed but I noticed something interesting before pausing the playback.

Up to the scenes when the humvee and the truck containing the looted gold were mined as they were escaping from Karbala, the film was heavily grained and the color saturation was kinda "artistic"; anyhow that's how I recall the DVD version.  Then the main characters were rescued by civilian Iraqis and brought inside a cave, while Walhberg was captured by the Iraqi Republican Guards.  Suddenly, all the grains were GONE - scenes became totally clean - almost 3d like.   Anyone else notice this?  Will update later how far the "clean" image will last.   I paused at the scene where Wahlberg was being interrogated/tortured.

I dont know if any of the professional reviewers have noticed this, although I dont expect any of them to be actually watching a movie (for review) from start to end.

[barrister]

I'm not familiar with Three Kings because I never liked the movie .  But since you seem to have taken a recent interest in cinematography styles, I tried doing a little googling for you.

Don't assume that only one type of film stock is used from beginning to end of a movie.  Many movies shift from one film stock to another for artistic effect.

Three Kings was shot on 35mm Panavision cameras and lenses, but used different stocks of Kodak film.

Portions used Kodak EPP 404 Ektachrome 100 Plus Professional Color Slide film, a reversal film (for slide projectors).  Kodak made custom rolls of the slide film for this movie.


====================

I dont know if any of the professional reviewers have noticed this, although I dont expect any of them to be actually watching a movie (for review) from start to end.

Some Blu-ray reviewers commented on the variety of film stock used.  doblu.com says:

Three Kings utilizes multiple Kodak stocks, one of them not even used for film, but slide transparencies. That is to say, nearly ever scene looks different in terms of contrast, color saturation, and depth. The film’s opening shot in the middle of the desert is washed out, the contrast is pumped up, and almost everything but the sky has been drained of color. Wait a while and when the soldiers move into town, the sky and flesh tones take on this neon hue, the sky so bright and vivid it becomes a character on its own. You can’t miss it.

http://www.doblu.com/2010/10/21/three-kings-review/



=====================



Here's Three Kings info that's more specific, from a film and video production magazine:



Filmmakers on Visual Story Points
Apr 1, 2000 12:00 PM, Michael Goldman


Three Kings -

... Therefore, Russell decided to split the movie into three visual parts: One for the film's opening where we first meet "naive young soldiers out in the desert," another for when they go off on their treasure quest, and a third for when they are in their protective military environment.

... Sigel shot the film's opening on traditional Super 35mm, Kodak Daylight stock (Kodak 5246) and then performed a bleach bypass on that footage in the lab in order to retain unexposed silver on the final image. The process created what Russell calls a "sense of dislocation."

... For the middle portion of the piece, when the soldiers go on their quest, Sigel chose a technique that he and Russell had to "work hard" to sell to Warner Brothers: the use of Kodak Professional Plus Ektachrome film, a stock normally reserved for still photography. Because some film labs wouldn't insure the Ektachrome portion of the film's negative since they are not used to working with it, the director says the studio was "understandably nervous" about the approach.

... For scenes in which the soldiers return to a friendly environment, the filmmakers returned to standard Super 35mm stock but used filtration and lighting techniques to add more color saturation to the images, making them "friendlier," according to Sigel.

... Russell also cited Oliver Stone's work as influencing his method for designing the visual style for Three Kings. "Stone was the real trailblazer, in my view, for this sort of stuff," Russell notes.

http://digitalcontentproducer.com/mag/video_filmmakers_visual_story/

[Clondalkin]

Thanks barrister

Thanks to high definition, kitang-kita ang pinagtagpi-tagping negatives even for regular movie fans; it's nice to discover things you didn't notice on DVD. 

[mattia]

The Lookout

Very good PQ & Audio.  The grain, intended by the director, is well used here.  Very film like indeed.  Audio is superb.  Bass is heavily used. 

Bad Boys

PQ is not as detailed but definitely superior to my DVD Superbit version.  Flesh tones are very good especially in the day scenes. Sound is robust and active with all those explosions and gunfires.  It's a loud movie indeed.  Having read the reviews first, I had managed my expectations well before watching this, and, I was very pleased with the BD.

[Moks007]

Too much grain or not, the movie's image quality certainly gets better and better as you watch and re-watch.  The level of details is absolutely impressive even during dark scenes - the mother superior singing within the dark shadows, the romantic scene in the garden between Maria and the Captain, the texture of the clothing, the walls, the grass, the buildings and the roads for instance.    Many scenes look like postcards.   Amazing!

I'm so excited na. My copy just shipped from amazon. Btw, I viewed a d****l**d copy thru my xtreamer last night and it does indeed look fantastic.

Perfect for Christmas/holiday fever viewing with my wife and daughter. My 2 1/2 yr old daughter really loves the songs especially the do re mi

[barrister]

On avsforum's Blu-ray tier thread, The Thin Red Line is now #1 at Tier 0, beating Toy Story 3 and Avatar.  

The Sound of Music is also at Tier 0, but it's only on the lower end of the Tier.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168342

[pchin]

I'm so excited na. My copy just shipped from amazon. Btw, I viewed a d****l**d copy thru my xtreamer last night and it does indeed look fantastic.

Perfect for Christmas/holiday fever viewing with my wife and daughter. My 2 1/2 yr old daughter really loves the songs especially the do re mi

Same here. I'm excited to get this film so the whole family can watch together just like my dad did to me when I was 6 or 7 years old. Watching this film will be a family tradition. 

[mattia]

Too much grain or not, the movie's image quality certainly gets better and better as you watch and re-watch.  The level of details is absolutely impressive even during dark scenes - the mother superior singing within the dark shadows, the romantic scene in the garden between Maria and the Captain, the texture of the clothing, the walls, the grass, the buildings and the roads for instance.    Many scenes look like postcards.   Amazing!

My family and I watched last weekend.  I totally agree with Clondalkin on the PQ - Postcard quality indeed.  I was totally blown away by the picture quality.  A classic movie like this deserves only the best treatment and it got it alright. 

[mattia]

The Fifth Element Remastered Version

Didn't see the unremastered version so I have no point of comparison.  Nonetheless, the PQ here shines.  Very impressed with its HD quality.  SQ is also a blast!  Happy to watch this sci fi flick again, in its full hi def glory. 

Knowing

WOW is all I can say.  First, the PQ.  This has got to belong to my top demo BD, together with Avatar and I-Robot.  Fantastic definition and depth that will surely please even the most cynical videophiles.  Then the SQ.  Double WOW. From the crash of the airplane to the rushing subway train to the discreet sounds, it's something to be experienced indeed.  I'm running out of praises.  Just watch the BD.

next in line is Kramer Vs Kramer

very good PQ as per reviews

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Kramer-vs-Kramer-Blu-ray/3255/#Review
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1991/kramervskramer.html


can't wait for my order to arrive!

[barrister]

avsforum's Blu-ray Tier update --- today's top titles:

1. Toy Story 3
2. A Christmas Carol (2009)
3. The Thin Red Line
4. Avatar

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168342

[barrister]

Ralph Potts of avsforum gives the Inception BD a "100" rating for audio quality:

... Having seen Inception in the theater I had high hopes for its soundtrack in the home environment and I wasn’t disappointed. This lossless DTS-HD 5.1 Master Audio soundtrack is demonstration quality and is going to please those who like to play their systems loud. ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1295481

[barrister]

Just in time for the Holy Week:



The Ten Commandments (1956) Blu-ray is very good.  Another fine restoration work from Paramount.

It's a 2-disc set, split at the intermission.  



Picture is magnificent, similar to the Sound of Music.  Of course, rear projection work for backgrounds are still obvious, but that's how the original looked.  At least they didn't do any digital tweaks that would have made the film's 1956 "look" seem weird.  Black levels and sharpness are very good.  High color saturation was the Technicolor style of the day, and the gorgeous colors of the original is intact.  No edge enhancement.  No DNR.  Film grain is light and very natural.

Audio quality is also top-notch.  It won't sound like a new movie's soundtrack, but the restoration work ensured that the audio would sound as natural as possible.

 
 

[pchin]

Just in time for the Holy Week:



The Ten Commandments (1956) Blu-ray is very good.  Another fine restoration work from Paramount.

Wonderful news. Another classic worth getting!

Ralph Potts of avsforum gives the Inception BD a "100" rating for audio quality:

... Having seen Inception in the theater I had high hopes for its soundtrack in the home environment and I wasn’t disappointed. This lossless DTS-HD 5.1 Master Audio soundtrack is demonstration quality and is going to please those who like to play their systems loud. ...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1295481

Couldn't agree more. I enjoy the movie very much. The bonus audio soundtrack is the icing of the cake!

avsforum's Blu-ray Tier update --- today's top titles:

1. Toy Story 3
2. A Christmas Carol (2009)
3. The Thin Red Line
4. Avatar

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1168342

Whoa...all check! The Thin Red Line is on its way.

[barrister]

I finally got the corrected versions of the these two problematic titles:

         
Saving Private Ryan    &     Gladiator



My Saving Private Ryan has the yellow UPC at the back cover.  Everything's exactly the same, except for the adjusted audio sync.    

The first one I bought had an ever-so-slight audio delay on the first half of the movie, and an obvious audio delay on the second half.  On the corrected version, I couldn't detect any sync problem at all, and I'm very sensitive to audio sync problems.  (The smallest sync error I can detect is about 25 ms.)  



My Gladiator does not have the yellow UPC, but it's a remastered edition, as identified by the lack of the words "2 Disc" above the Paramount logo.  

The Gladiator remaster was beautifully done.  It's sharp, no edge enhancement, no DNR, and black levels are very good.  But the color looks slightly different now.  It's obvious that color timing was changed, but word is that Ridley Scott approved the master, so I guess everything's fine.

[pchin]

My Gladiator does not have the yellow UPC, but it's a remastered edition, as identified by the lack of the words "2 Disc" above the Paramount logo. 

The Gladiator remaster was beautifully done.  It's sharp, no edge enhancement, no DNR, and black levels are very good.  But the color looks slightly different now.  It's obvious that color timing was changed, but word is that Ridley Scott approved the master, so I guess everything's fine.

Hi barrister, I got the Gladiator France Steelbook edition. Is there any way I can tell if this is a remastered edition since I don't have the US original (problematic) edition? Any specific obvious scenes that I can easily detect those defects? 

[barrister]

I'm not familiar with that, but an avsforum member is saying that the remastered version in French steelbook has a POCKET.BLU application stated on the back cover:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1263450&page=36

Any specific obvious scenes that I can easily detect those defects?  

There are many obvious scenes, but this one is especially obvious to me:

BD first release: http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6021/glad17zbd.png

BD remastered: http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/4625/glad17dbd.png


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1173155

[pchin]

Thanks for the useful info & links barrister! I will check it out this evening!

[barrister]

The Lord of the Rings Extended BD (June 28, 2011), review from blu-ray.com:

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Motion-Picture-Trilogy-Blu-ray/12237/#Review


The Controversy: An Unexpected Journey

If you haven't been embroiled in the debate over the revised color timing that graces the new Extended Edition release of Fellowship of the Ring, you may soon be. The differences in color and contrast between the extended cut's 1080p/AVC-encoded transfer and its theatrical cut presentation are substantial and unmistakable; the differences in color and contrast between the EE's presentation and that of its 2002 Extended Edition DVD counterpart are substantial and unmistakable as well. Shadows are darker, saturation has been dampened in key scenes (the Council of Elrond, in particular) and greens and cyans, though already heavily at play in the film's original palette, have been noticeably intensified throughout, in some cases during sequences that once featured very little green or cyan at all. (Ironically, the "Scene Selection" thumbnail images feature the film's previous color timing.) Most of the resulting debate, though -- at least at this point -- should center around film revisionism. Both Peter Jackson and director of photography Andrew Lesnie have confirmed that these sometimes drastic changes were intentional and were made under their supervision.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Fellowship-of-the-Ring-Blu-ray/19929/#Review



Somebody on the blu-ray.com forum saw the June 14, 2011 theater screening of the remastered Fellowship of the Ring (Extended), and he says he also noticed the green on the theater screening.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/4854791-post3732.html



Other reviews:

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviewshd/bdreviews061411.html

http://www.avforums.com/movies/The-Lord-of-the-Rings-The-Motion-Picture-Trilogy--Extended-Edition-review_10572/blu-ray.html


YouTube comparison, extended vs theatrical FOTR BD:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vwcm-73kZE8

[zankuro]

oh no

[pchin]

I saw the pics comparison & I don't like the new tint. Will wait & see what others say about it. Hopefully it'd not distract us during viewing.  

On the other hand, if Robert Harris and Bill Hunt like what they see on the actual BD discs then there's probably nothing to worry about...  

[barrister]

Forum discussions about this issue are really getting hostile...   

[pchin]

Yes, the debate is still rage on. Other than the snowy part, it seems the tint effect on the rest are subtle. In terms of picture quality this release is vastly superior to the theatrical blu-ray release so I'm happy with that.

And now some guys pointed out the change of colors has caused loss of dynamic range, hence certain scenes are now  underexposure...darn this EE edition! Too many complaints, what i'll do is just wait for Amazon to put it on the discount corner so I can grab a copy then I can no longer complain!! 

[barrister]

Maybe it depends on the scene.

The snowy mountain pass looks bad, like somebody made a mistake with the color timing.  However, the Hobbiton and Rivendell scenes might still look OK to me despite some green tint, even if I'm already very used to the strong yellow push on the previous releases.

Neverthless, I stumbled on one screen cap comparison where the Extended BD actually looked better to me than the Theatrical BD.  

Take a look at this cap:


TE: Theatrical Edition; EE: Extended Edition (from blu-ray.com)

To me, the magenta push on the TE looks out of place; but a green push that reduces magenta on the EE makes the image more consistent with the mood of the film (or the mood of that particular scene).
  

  

[pchin]

TE: Theatrical Edition; EE: Extended Edition (from blu-ray.com)

To me, the magenta push on the TE looks out of place; but a green push that reduces magenta on the EE makes the image more consistent with the mood of the film (or the mood of that particular scene). 

In the above example, me too agree the EE looks better.  

[Clondalkin]

And now some guys pointed out the change of colors has caused loss of dynamic range, hence certain scenes are now  underexposure...darn this EE edition! ...

AGREE!

[james16]

I purchased the LOTR EE blu ray yesterday and saw FOTR EE , it is certainly darker and has a shade of green tint if you looked hard enough and compared to FOTR EE DVD counterpart but i still enjoyed the film, the clarity and excellent SQ.

with the news around forums about people complaining about the supposedly green tint, it will only bother me if I looked at it hard enough I guess.

[barrister]

From digital bits editor Bill Hunt:



6/27/11 - 3:30 PM

Here's the studio's official statement on the issue, as of this afternoon:

"Warner Bros Home Entertainment Group confirms that The Lord of the Rings The Motion Picture Trilogy Extended Edition Blu-ray accurately represents the intended look of each of the three features.

The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring™ was remastered from the original digital production files in order to reproduce the full color imagery of the feature."

So there it is. We have little doubt that the controversy will continue in some quarters, and that those who are convinced there's a problem here will continue to feel that way. Nevertheless, we are told that the filmmakers have checked the discs and confirmed this is the intended look. We suspect that when the discs are actually in YOUR hands tomorrow, the vast majority of you will be very happy with them. We further suspect that many of those who've been following the controversy for the past couple of weeks will wonder what the fuss was about.



6/28/11 - 4:30 PM

To follow up on that WHV statement yesterday, our friend Harry Knowles over at AICN had this to say today:

"Earlier this month there was some hub-bub about some of the Blu Ray forums that the FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING EE Blu-Ray mastering was completely f--ked with an ugly green hint over everything, oblitering any real whites and messing up the entire gorgeous color palate of the film. I wrote Peter Jackson to alert him to the rumors. Peter had Andrew Lesnie look into it – you see… of the 3 films, FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING EE was the only film of the trilogy that did not go through the extensive and expensive Digital Color Grading process. They did that for this. Peter had seen the new mastering of FELLOWSHIP – in fact anyone that had seen it on HD broadcasts recently was looking at the gorgeous master sans any tinting. In Peter’s opinion the film has simply never looked better – including theatrically, because this new digital color grading was something that Peter wanted from the very beginning."


http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa194.html#062711b
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/mytwocentsa194.html#062811

[pchin]

Great to hear that. Now we can put our worries behind...

[streetsmart]

@barrister, thanks for the info. My bluray copy of the LOTR EE is already in JAC NJ office. Can't wait to watch it next week. 

[barrister]

blu-ray.com and avsforum are calmer, now that the discs are out.

The green is there, no question about it.  Most are saying it looks fine.

There are still some who are saying that it looks terrible, but they're in the minority.