Author Topic: CBCP vs. The Modern World  (Read 20036 times)

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Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #90 on: Oct 15, 2014 at 05:42 PM »
Ang problema kasi, we used the word "sin" and "disorder" sa opinion natin. Diyos ba tayo to know it's a sin? Are we medical experts to say it can be a disorder?

same here... Diyos ba tayo to declare that it is 'right'... are we medical experts to say it is not a disorder? :)

There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #91 on: Oct 15, 2014 at 05:47 PM »
same here... Diyos ba tayo to declare that it is 'right'... are we medical experts to say it is not a disorder? :)

Keep that up and you're really justifying that narrow-minded, judgmental, hater tag.

Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #92 on: Oct 15, 2014 at 05:53 PM »
Keep that up and you're really justifying that narrow-minded, judgmental, hater tag.

see... kapag kayo magganyan ayos lang... kapag kami na... galit na agad :) binalik ko lang ang sinabi mo... tapos na label na agad na narrow-minded, judgemental hater etc...

nang nirase mo ba sa akin yan ... narininggan mo ba ako na napakanarrow minded mo naman... ?
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #93 on: Oct 15, 2014 at 06:01 PM »
see... kapag kayo magganyan ayos lang... kapag kami na... galit na agad :) binalik ko lang ang sinabi mo... tapos na label na agad na narrow-minded, judgemental hater etc...

nang nirase mo ba sa akin yan ... narininggan mo ba ako na napakanarrow minded mo naman... ?

Hey, I'm not labeling you. I'm saying ganyan iisipin sayo ng tao if you keep that up.

E wala naman akong sinabing hindi sya sin e. Wala rin naman akong sinabing hindi sya disorder. What I'm saying is I don't know. If I don't know something, e di, status quo, until the authorities/experts say so or otherwise.
« Last Edit: Oct 15, 2014 at 06:05 PM by bumblebee »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #94 on: Oct 15, 2014 at 06:06 PM »
same here... Diyos ba tayo to declare that it is 'right'... are we medical experts to say it is not a disorder? :)

Medical experts HAVE spoken: It is not a disorder.

And if homosexuality is found in NATURE (animals have exhibited homosexual behavior), therefore gawa yan ni God kaya hindi siya kasalanan. It is theorized that homosexuality is nature's way of controlling a large population of species.

As for the passages that say homosexuality is a sin:

1. Leviticus - Yes, Leviticus explicitly condemns male homosexual acts. But Leviticus also condemns working on a Sabbath, eating pork, mixing two different fabrics, shaving, etc. So unless you follow all the other rules in Leviticus, you're a bigot if you cite that one passage and disregard the others.

2. Jesus - The number of times Jesus explicitly condemned homosexuality = 0. In fact, depending on how you interpret it, there is a story in the Bible that implies that Jesus may in fact be okay with homosexuality. That's the story of how he healed the Roman soldier's young "slave". In the original text, they use the term PAIS, which can mean slave but it can also mean teenage boy lover. Why would a Roman soldier go out of his way to have Jesus heal a mere "slave"? Maybe because he loves this boy more than a friend?

3. St. Paul - St. Paul seems to condemn homosexuality a lot. But he's also pretty sexist and dislikes all non-procreative marital sexuality. He wasn't even part of Jesus' original disciples and was in direct with Jesus anyway so it's kind of crazy a lot of mainstream Christianity's comes from his teachings/interpretations of Jesus' message. But whatever. Anyway, that aside, many Biblical scholars believe that what St. Paul was condemning was homosexual PROSTITUTION, not a committed relationship between a homosexual couple.

Oh and early Christians practiced gay marriage.


Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #95 on: Oct 15, 2014 at 06:23 PM »
Medical experts HAVE spoken: It is not a disorder.

And if homosexuality is found in NATURE (animals have exhibited homosexual behavior), therefore gawa yan ni God kaya hindi siya kasalanan. It is theorized that homosexuality is nature's way of controlling a large population of species.

As for the passages that say homosexuality is a sin:

1. Leviticus - Yes, Leviticus explicitly condemns male homosexual acts. But Leviticus also condemns working on a Sabbath, eating pork, mixing two different fabrics, shaving, etc. So unless you follow all the other rules in Leviticus, you're a bigot if you cite that one passage and disregard the others.

2. Jesus - The number of times Jesus explicitly condemned homosexuality = 0. In fact, depending on how you interpret it, there is a story in the Bible that implies that Jesus may in fact be okay with homosexuality. That's the story of how he healed the Roman soldier's young "slave". In the original text, they use the term PAIS, which can mean slave but it can also mean teenage boy lover. Why would a Roman soldier go out of his way to have Jesus heal a mere "slave"? Maybe because he loves this boy more than a friend?

3. St. Paul - St. Paul seems to condemn homosexuality a lot. But he's also pretty sexist and dislikes all non-procreative marital sexuality. He wasn't even part of Jesus' original disciples and was in direct with Jesus anyway so it's kind of crazy a lot of mainstream Christianity's comes from his teachings/interpretations of Jesus' message. But whatever. Anyway, that aside, many Biblical scholars believe that what St. Paul was condemning was homosexual PROSTITUTION, not a committed relationship between a homosexual couple.

Oh and early Christians practiced gay marriage.



dont worry... CBCP will embrace homosexuality soon... and you know the reason why :)

take note: I never said that RC is Christianity...

qoute: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; ..."
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline ninjababez®

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #96 on: Oct 16, 2014 at 02:01 AM »
pa ot, dun sa nagsasabi na hindi disorder ang pagiging bakla or tibo;
 
pano yun mga naging bakla or tibo dahil na-molestya nung bata?
ninjababez online ..

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #97 on: Oct 16, 2014 at 02:36 AM »

pa ot, dun sa nagsasabi na hindi disorder ang pagiging bakla or tibo;
 
pano yun mga naging bakla or tibo dahil na-molestya nung bata?

Read this.


Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #98 on: Oct 16, 2014 at 02:49 AM »
Medical experts HAVE spoken: It is not a disorder.

And if homosexuality is found in NATURE (animals have exhibited homosexual behavior), therefore gawa yan ni God kaya hindi siya kasalanan. It is theorized that homosexuality is nature's way of controlling a large population of species.

As for the passages that say homosexuality is a sin:

1. Leviticus - Yes, Leviticus explicitly condemns male homosexual acts. But Leviticus also condemns working on a Sabbath, eating pork, mixing two different fabrics, shaving, etc. So unless you follow all the other rules in Leviticus, you're a bigot if you cite that one passage and disregard the others.

2. Jesus - The number of times Jesus explicitly condemned homosexuality = 0. In fact, depending on how you interpret it, there is a story in the Bible that implies that Jesus may in fact be okay with homosexuality. That's the story of how he healed the Roman soldier's young "slave". In the original text, they use the term PAIS, which can mean slave but it can also mean teenage boy lover. Why would a Roman soldier go out of his way to have Jesus heal a mere "slave"? Maybe because he loves this boy more than a friend?

3. St. Paul - St. Paul seems to condemn homosexuality a lot. But he's also pretty sexist and dislikes all non-procreative marital sexuality. He wasn't even part of Jesus' original disciples and was in direct with Jesus anyway so it's kind of crazy a lot of mainstream Christianity's comes from his teachings/interpretations of Jesus' message. But whatever. Anyway, that aside, many Biblical scholars believe that what St. Paul was condemning was homosexual PROSTITUTION, not a committed relationship between a homosexual couple.

Oh and early Christians practiced gay marriage.

1.
Condemning male sexual acts with men.
Lev. 18:22 Leviticus 18:22New International Version (NIV)

22 “‘Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman; that is detestable.

Working on Sabbath.
Leviticus 23:3New International Version (NIV)

The Sabbath

3 “‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a sabbath to the Lord.

This means you choose a sabbath day. Dati kasi, walang gregorian calendar, so whatever 7th day you choose, that will be your sabbath day. Example, your work starts with Wednesday, 6 days a week. So your sabbath day would be Tuesday if that is your rest day.

Matthew 12 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath
12 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2 When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, “Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.”

3 He answered, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

Eating pork.

Leviticus 11-17New International Version (NIV)

Clean and Unclean Food
11 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.

4 “‘There are some that only chew the cud or only have a divided hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The hyrax, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a divided hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a divided hoof, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

The law was meant for the Israelites.

Mixing different fabrics.

Leviticus 19:19New International Version (NIV)

19 “‘Keep my decrees.

“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.

“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.

“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

This I cannot answer on my own. However, after a few research with the help of pareng google, this is what I got:

To set the israelites apart from other people because they are starting to be independent.

http://thecripplegate.com/shellfish-mixed-fabrics-and-homosexuality-picking-and-choosing/

2 different fabrics have different shrinking tolerances. Wala pang synthetic fabrics that time so one might shrink faster than the other:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091230065526AARY107

It is a decree for the Israelites:

Leviticus 19:1-2New International Version (NIV)

Various Laws
19 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: ‘Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy.

Shaving.

Leviticus 19:27New International Version (NIV)

27 “‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.

http://www.nehemiaswall.com/shaving-beards-sidelocks

Every ancient person knew that one cut one’s skin or shaved one’s head as an act of mourning, and it was these acts of mourning that are being prohibited in Lev 19. While the mourning connotation of cutting flesh and shaving may not be obvious to the modern reader, we have seen that the Torah itself, as well as the later prophets, take it as a given that cutting one’s flesh and shaving one’s head are characteristic acts of mourning along with crying and wearing sackcloth.

Again, a law for the Israelites under Leviticus 19.

2. Jesus healing the slave or Pais.

Matthew 8:5-13New International Version (NIV)

The Faith of the Centurion
5 When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.”

7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would.” And his servant was healed at that moment.

I see nothing wrong with healing a slave or a Pais.

3.

Romans 1:25-27New International Version (NIV)

25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

It is not just prostitution but the sexual act itself.

Understanding the bible:

http://www.gotquestions.org/understand-the-Bible.html

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #99 on: Oct 16, 2014 at 02:51 AM »
pa ot, dun sa nagsasabi na hindi disorder ang pagiging bakla or tibo;
 
pano yun mga naging bakla or tibo dahil na-molestya nung bata?

Free will?

Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #100 on: Oct 16, 2014 at 04:23 AM »
Qoute "Its not just prostitution but the sexual act itself"...

I am not condemning homosexual... only homosexuality... I hate homosexuality as much as I hate lying and adultery and murder... but it doesnt mean that I hate homsexual, liars, adulterers or murderers... I hate sins but I dont hate sinners... I myself is sinner also :)

Take note that God hate sins... not sinners... He even sacrificed Himself for sinners...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #101 on: Oct 16, 2014 at 06:08 AM »
Qoute "Its not just prostitution but the sexual act itself"...

I am not condemning homosexual... only homosexuality... I hate homosexuality as much as I hate lying and adultery and murder... but it doesnt mean that I hate homsexual, liars, adulterers or murderers... I hate sins but I dont hate sinners... I myself is sinner also :)

Take note that God hate sins... not sinners... He even sacrificed Himself for sinners...


Correct! Sino ba naman tayo to condemn people. Bagay na bagay sa sig mo!

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #102 on: Oct 20, 2014 at 01:07 PM »



Offline Quitacet

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #103 on: Oct 20, 2014 at 01:13 PM »




parang mali. di ba gays din yung nasa likod ng Pope?

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #104 on: Oct 20, 2014 at 02:09 PM »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #105 on: Oct 20, 2014 at 03:00 PM »
I am not condemning homosexual... only homosexuality... I hate homosexuality as much as I hate lying and adultery and murder... but it doesnt mean that I hate homsexual, liars, adulterers or murderers... I hate sins but I dont hate sinners... I myself is sinner also :)


dpogs, you have never answered this question: What is so objectively bad about homosexuality?

What makes two people of same sex who are in a committed loving relationship sinners? Murderers, liars, thieves and rapists HURT people. Sino ang sinasaktan ng dalawang babae o dalawang lalake na nagmamahalan kagaya ng babae at lalake na nagmamahalan din? What's the big difference? What's the harm?

Offline Quitacet

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #106 on: Oct 20, 2014 at 04:36 PM »
dpogs, you have never answered this question: What is so objectively bad about homosexuality?

What makes two people of same sex who are in a committed loving relationship sinners? Murderers, liars, thieves and rapists HURT people. Sino ang sinasaktan ng dalawang babae o dalawang lalake na nagmamahalan kagaya ng babae at lalake na nagmamahalan din? What's the big difference? What's the harm?

I agree with this. I believe mas makasalanan pa ang malakas kumanta ng videoke kesa sa same sex relationship.

Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #107 on: Oct 20, 2014 at 06:26 PM »
dpogs, you have never answered this question: What is so objectively bad about homosexuality?

What makes two people of same sex who are in a committed loving relationship sinners? Murderers, liars, thieves and rapists HURT people. Sino ang sinasaktan ng dalawang babae o dalawang lalake na nagmamahalan kagaya ng babae at lalake na nagmamahalan din? What's the big difference? What's the harm?

ill answer this in LGBT thread...

dont worry... CBCP will accept gays...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bass_nut

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #108 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 01:30 AM »
<snp>

dont worry... CBCP will accept gays...

sir dpogs, the Catholic community accepts gays/lesbians as we obey/follow/imitate JESUS CHRIST's ways of converting lost ones back to GOD. it is the homosexual acts that are not acceptable.

Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #109 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 02:54 AM »
sir dpogs, the Catholic community accepts gays/lesbians as we obey/follow/imitate JESUS CHRIST's ways of converting lost ones back to GOD. it is the homosexual acts that are not acceptable.

that is so true...

kasi lahat ng hindi agree sa idea ng mga LGBT activist branded as "child beater", "ignorant", "bigot", ano pa... maraming puwedeng itawag sa iyo... nasabihan lang na mali ang ginagawa, nasabihan lang na hindi_normal/abnormal ang gawain... aba eh... branded as homophobe ka na :):)...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bass_nut

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #110 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 06:11 AM »
sir dpogs, here are some more peborit words of lgbt activists  :o ;D =>
-narrow minded
-idiot, moron
-stone aged mind
-hatred
-religiot
-judgmental
-etc

homophobia is just a term created by lgbt activists to try and make it look like normal people are the problem.
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2014 at 06:12 AM by bass_nut »

Offline dpogs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #111 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 08:43 AM »
well most of the case... those who acquire/gained worldly knowledge doesnt want to be corrected by "religious" people...

ang dami pala tawag sa mga katulad nating hindi agree sa idea ng homosexuality... ni hinid man lang nila narealize na open rebuke is better than secret love.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline marvs

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #112 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 10:23 AM »
sir dpogs, the Catholic community accepts gays/lesbians as we obey/follow/imitate JESUS CHRIST's ways of converting lost ones back to GOD. it is the homosexual acts that are not acceptable.

This is so true, it is what is being done behind closed doors that is not acceptable, if they want companionship and they can fight the urge to do these homosexual acts then I am fine with it.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #113 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 10:56 AM »
sir dpogs, here are some more peborit words of lgbt activists  :o ;D =>
-narrow minded
-idiot, moron
-stone aged mind
-hatred
-religiot
-judgmental
-etc

homophobia is just a term created by lgbt activists to try and make it look like normal people are the problem.

meron pa ako isang nadinig, yun bigotry ba yun?  ;D

well most of the case... those who acquire/gained worldly knowledge doesnt want to be corrected by "religious" people...

Ako naman, the way I look at it, we are given knowledge by our creator. Stewarts tayo and we should use it wisely for God's glory. And we acknowledge na galing sa creator ang knowledge natin. Hence if you don't believe in God, kanino ka accountable? Who do you honor when you do good works? Kanino mo i-acknowledge ang source of knowledge mo?

50 years ago, nobody wears super short shorts or micro mini skirts. Ngayon normal lang. Isn't that a good example of changing moralities?

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #114 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 11:18 AM »
sir dpogs, the Catholic community accepts gays/lesbians as we obey/follow/imitate JESUS CHRIST's ways of converting lost ones back to GOD. it is the homosexual acts that are not acceptable.

Number of times Jesus spoke against homosexual acts and homosexual relationships = zero.

So at worst, He was indifferent. And depending on how you interpret that one story involving the Roman centurion asking Jesus to heal his "slave" (in some texts, the "slave" is referred to as "pais", which also means "teenage boy lover"), maybe even pro-gay.

Offline bass_nut

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #115 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 01:09 PM »
Number of times Jesus spoke against homosexual acts and homosexual relationships = zero.

<snp>

kw, you may want to read on Mark 10:6-7, etc
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/book.php?book=Mark&chapter=10&verse=6
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2014 at 01:12 PM by bass_nut »

Offline bass_nut

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #116 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 01:22 PM »
meron pa ako isang nadinig, yun bigotry ba yun?  ;D

Ako naman, the way I look at it, we are given knowledge by our creator. Stewarts tayo and we should use it wisely for God's glory. And we acknowledge na galing sa creator ang knowledge natin. Hence if you don't believe in God, kanino ka accountable? Who do you honor when you do good works? Kanino mo i-acknowledge ang source of knowledge mo?

50 years ago, nobody wears super short shorts or micro mini skirts. Ngayon normal lang. Isn't that a good example of changing moralities?

1) yes, "bigotry" is one of the peborit of lgbt activists, sirs Nelson, marvs, dpogs  ;)

2) they will cherry-pick Bible passages. if and when explanations and/or proper context to these passages were shared by Christians for clarity and in hopes of enlightening the confused ones, the lgbt activists will resort to INSULTING/ATTACKING the messenger(s) and GOD.

3) GOD works in various and mysterious ways. former gays with contrite hearts are clear examples.
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2014 at 01:26 PM by bass_nut »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #117 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 02:02 PM »
3) GOD works in various and mysterious ways.

Indeed. So don't be surprised if you gays in heaven.

Offline bass_nut

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #118 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 02:20 PM »
Indeed. So don't be surprised if you gays in heaven.

there's an "if" in your sentence ?
since i seldom open my Community version Holy Bible, can you please enlighten me through any Bible passage(s) which may support your "if".. that is, if ok with you ;)

Offline bumblebee

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Re: CBCP vs. The Modern World
« Reply #119 on: Nov 01, 2014 at 02:24 PM »
there's an "if" in your sentence ?
since i seldom open my Community version Holy Bible, can you please enlighten me through any Bible passage(s) which may support your "if".. that is, if ok with you ;)

And who told you that the heaven you'll be going to is the heaven mentioned in your Bible?