Author Topic: The Religion Thread  (Read 357731 times)

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Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2310 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 09:38 AM »
That is because it was written.

Yup. Because God decided/chose to do it.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline jerix

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2311 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 09:40 AM »
Our neighbor's cat scampered for its safety with its tail between its legs and "takot na takot" when I caught him stealing fish at home.  He probably knew what is right and wrong through his Instinct. Maybe human beings have that instinct too to know basics of what is right or wrong. But this changes when self-interest or greed comes in the way.
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2312 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 09:41 AM »
Yup. Because God decided/chose to do it.

Can he "un-choose"?

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2313 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 10:32 AM »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2314 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 10:38 AM »

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2315 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 10:50 AM »
What's already written?

“…declaring the end from the beginning, and from the past things which were not done, saying, My purpose shall stand, and I will do all My pleasure … What I have said, that will I bring about; what I have planned, that will I do” (Isaiah 46:10-11)
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2316 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 10:51 AM »
So no?

Pano yung Sodom and Gomorrah? Binigyan pa ng chance?

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2317 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:00 AM »
So no?

Pano yung Sodom and Gomorrah? Binigyan pa ng chance?

He gave everyone of us a chance. Not only Sodom and Gomorra.

God's plan is to punish evil and to forgive those who repent. He is about to destroy sodom and He is ready to forgive those who repent.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2318 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:05 AM »
But to to you, he's all knowing? Meaning he knows everything, past, present, future. Or was it someone else?

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2319 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:24 AM »
But to to you, he's all knowing? Meaning he knows everything, past, present, future. Or was it someone else?

What is your point?
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2320 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:27 AM »
Kasi sabi mo, he can "unchoose". Was there anything he "unchose"? If there was, did he know beforehand he will "unchoose"?

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2321 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:36 AM »
Kasi sabi mo, he can "unchoose". Was there anything he "unchose"? If there was, did he know beforehand he will "unchoose"?

Your point is?
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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2322 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:41 AM »
My point is Jesus never spoke against death penalty.
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2323 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:43 AM »
I'm not making a point. Yet. Iniintindi ko muna sinasabi mo.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2324 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:45 AM »
My point is Jesus never spoke against death penalty.

I get that part. Kaso sinabi mo pang he chose not to, kaya ko na tanong kung meron ba syang choice e yun naman talaga yung nasusulat.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2325 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:46 AM »
Our neighbor's cat scampered for its safety with its tail between its legs and "takot na takot" when I caught him stealing fish at home.  He probably knew what is right and wrong through his Instinct. Maybe human beings have that instinct too to know basics of what is right or wrong. But this changes when self-interest or greed comes in the way.

I think sir maski sa gubat mangyari yan, the cat will still scamper to safety in the presence of someone or something that the cat deems as a threat. I think that's the logic of the cat's  instinct. However, I think that will not happen kung tiger ang nakapasok sa loob ng house niyo. The tiger will still consider you as a threat pero iba ang reaction.

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2326 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 11:57 AM »
I'm not making a point. Yet. Iniintindi ko muna sinasabi mo.

I believe in omniscient, omnipresent, all knowing powerful God.

And it is also clear in the Bible that Jesus never spoke against death penalty. He even recognize the government s authority on death penalty.

One thing separate human to animals is our free will same as God. God always have a choice. He have a choice to declare war to Pilates but He did not because that is not the plan on the first place. He have a choice not to be put to death but that is not the will of God the Father so instead He choose to obey God s will.

He have the power to unchoose but He did not choose to exercise it since it is not according to God s will.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline tony

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2327 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 12:26 PM »
Thanks for the answers sir. I know na where your coming from. I just hope that someday, when you get to know Jesus, you can share it with others as well.


it is a personal thing....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2328 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 04:59 PM »
I get that part. Kaso sinabi mo pang he chose not to, kaya ko na tanong kung meron ba syang choice e yun naman talaga yung nasusulat.

Sir subukan kong gumamit ng analogy to better explain it.

If ever isa sa mga anak natin were convicted of a crime and ang punishment is death, and we were given a chance to take his place, although we have the option not to take his place, ako as a parent will gladly take his place to give my child a chance in life. I would take his place out of the unconditional love for my convicted child.

Sir it may not be a perfect analogy however it is one example of our creator 's unconditional love for us.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2329 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 07:08 PM »
Sir subukan kong gumamit ng analogy to better explain it.

If ever isa sa mga anak natin were convicted of a crime and ang punishment is death, and we were given a chance to take his place, although we have the option not to take his place, ako as a parent will gladly take his place to give my child a chance in life. I would take his place out of the unconditional love for my convicted child.

Sir it may not be a perfect analogy however it is one example of our creator 's unconditional love for us.

I get the unconditional love part. What I don't get is why people say god isn't against death penalty just because he didn't say anything about it. Hindi bat magdiriwang ang buong kalangitan para lang sa isang magbabagong buhay? Pano ka magbabagong buhay kung pinatay ka na?

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2330 on: Aug 22, 2016 at 08:54 PM »
I get the unconditional love part. What I don't get is why people say god isn't against death penalty just because he didn't say anything about it. Hindi bat magdiriwang ang buong kalangitan para lang sa isang magbabagong buhay? Pano ka magbabagong buhay kung pinatay ka na?

You are right. There is no hope kung patay ka na. Well The nearest na pwede natin gamitin from the bible (only to those who believes in the authority of the bible):

1 Peter 2:13-17New International Version (NIV)

13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish people. 16 Live as free people, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as God’s slaves. 17 Show proper respect to everyone, love the family of believers, fear God, honor the emperor.

Sa old testament may mga nangyari din na the leader was commanded to go to war. Siguro naman when an army goes to war, there will definitely be deaths. It is not death penalty per se pero kinda similar. I may be wrong too.

Disclaimer:

This verse doesn't apply to those extra judiciary killings. Baka ma-misquote naman ako. Hehe!

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2331 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 06:34 AM »
Jesus recognizes the law of the the land. We should all abide by it. Pero hindi ibig sabihin nun, agree na sya sa death penalty. Pero andun na yung law e. Besides, he didn't came down here to mess with politics.

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2332 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 06:46 AM »
Jesus recognizes the law of the the land. We should all abide by it. Pero hindi ibig sabihin nun, agree na sya sa death penalty. Pero andun na yung law e. Besides, he didn't came down here to mess with politics.

God (Jesus) is the One who instituted capital punishment.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2333 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 06:48 AM »
Really? How? Then he is contradicting himself.

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2334 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 06:56 AM »
Really? How? Then he is contradicting himself.

In what way God contradicted Himself when He instituted capital punishment?
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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2335 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 07:06 AM »
First, tell me how he instituted capital punishment and then I'll answer your question.

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2336 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 07:25 AM »
First, tell me how he instituted capital punishment and then I'll answer your question.

Right after the great flood God spoke to Noah and commanded the following:

Genesis 9:5-6
5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.


There is none righteous, no not one.

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2337 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 07:29 AM »
Please tell me how God (Jesus) contradicted Himself when He (Jesus) instituted death as capital punishment.
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Offline bumblebee

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2338 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 07:41 AM »
That's it? From Genesis pa? Wala ka bang bagu-bago? Ni hindi si Jesus nagsabi nyan e.

To answer your question,

Hindi bat magdiriwang ang buong kalangitan para lang sa isang magbabagong buhay? Pano ka magbabagong buhay kung pinatay ka na?

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #2339 on: Aug 23, 2016 at 08:06 AM »
That's it? From Genesis pa? Wala ka bang bagu-bago?


Yup. Ganoon na katagal ang death penalty. Since Noah pa yan.


Quote
Ni hindi si Jesus nagsabi nyan e.

John 1:1
1 In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word (Jesus) was with God, and the Word (Jesus) was God.
John 1:14
14 And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus even created the heaven and earth. Jesus is God.

Quote

To answer your question,

Hindi bat magdiriwang ang buong kalangitan para lang sa isang magbabagong buhay? Pano ka magbabagong buhay kung pinatay ka na?

You quote Luke 15:7

I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

it says "one sinner that repenteth"... siguro naman pareho tayong agree na "repentance" is not equivalence to "pagbabagong buhay"
ex. man on the cross - the moment "man on the cross" repenteth (angels in heaven now rejoicing) Jesus forgave him (period). Did Jesus ask the "man on the cross" to change his ways (magbagong buhay)?

also do not forget that God is also a Judge. God requires death for all sinners even though they repenteth God requires death as punishment for their sin.

God forgive those who repent (angel rejoice in heaven) but they must face the consequence of their sin - death.


Angels rejoicing in heaven for one sinner that repenteth doesn't show that God contradict Himself when He instituted death as capital punishment.
There is none righteous, no not one.