Topic: The Religion Thread

[DPT]

And the master con artist since the beginning - the Serpent so successful that there exists too many religion creating chaos confusion and bring people to love their own flesh and focus on temporary rather than eternal things.

It is my beleif that Satan still active today deceiving people using  world leaders celebreties material things radical faith terrorist extremist etc

We have not met the serpent, satan, or other names we call him.

I know this would come as offensive.

But what makes satan, serpent or other names different from the kapres, mananangal, diwende etc etc

All of them are imaginary creations of man.

No one  can convince anyone by saying they exist because they said so? Or you threaten them with a gamble with no loss plus all the benefits.

[bumblebee]

Thanks dpogs. Anyone else on where the water went?

[JT]

But what makes satan, serpent or other names different from the kapres, mananangal, diwende etc etc

All of them are imaginary creations of man.

No one  can convince anyone by saying they exist because they said so? Or you threaten them with a gamble with no loss plus all the benefits.

Are you sure they are fiction?

when i was young we had an experience where our car got some trouble running when are coming back from old tandang sora (back when it is still full of balete trees). and there was this bright light at the back even when we are the only one on the road on the way to quezon memorial.  Our drive becomes normal only when we reach the circle. My uncle said he saw a big creature like a tikbalang took a ride with us when leaving their house in tandang sora.

another experience is when i was a new born again. barely a month i suddenly woke up around 3am when i felt a huge creature seating on me cursing me and mocking me being  christian.  it looks exactly like a kapre.   almost choke me to death until I remember the power of the name of Jesus. It went away after I commanded it to get off me in Jesus name.

So are they real? of course they are. Who are they? not the fallen angels but the nephilim that died in the flood and those annihilated by the Israelites. They became disembodied spirits also known as demons.

[JT]

Thanks dpogs. Anyone else on where the water went?

Evaporation process creating a totally different Earth atmosphere. Without the original water canopy above, the weather is hotter and not regulated anymore. Could be the reason why lifespan becomes shorter.

But I believe most of the water went back underground. Back from the source as the bible says from the foundations of the earth.  Scientist has confirmed there is a layer of water underneath the earth's crust which holds as much water as the oceans we have today.

[JT]

Any kind of answer will do.

How can there be a great flood from in every culture when according to bible they all should have been wiped out? Or if the flood story was just passed down to them by noah, how come noah's forgotten by these cultures?

After the flood, human population increases again. then comes the tower of babylon where everyone got scattered and becomes different culture telling the account of the great flood. out of these syempre magiging ibat ibang version na until the true story is forgotten.

[bumblebee]

How do you know that the bible version is the true story of the flood?

[JT]

How do you know that the bible version is the true story of the flood?

Because i believe the bible is the word of God.  Any wrong information or lies in it invalidates its integrity.

[bumblebee]

Thanks, jt.

So most of the water came from undergound or from the rain?

[Nelson de Leon]

Thanks, jt.

So most of the water came from undergound or from the rain?

That cannot be answered kung which is more. The point of the bible is not how many water came from the sky or under the earth but why it happened.

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[Nelson de Leon]

Immortality means different to different people.

That is why the concept of hell, heaven and purgatory is soo appealing to a lot of people especially the  ones that wants the easy way. 


It is a personal choice to gamble your existential now  for some future nirvana or reward.  But one thing that we should think of IMHO is why we view our present planet or  earth as a temporary way point on to some journey that no one has came back or seen.

Without logic or anything. It just basically does not make any sense.   

Things would be different if people rationally. And think of our planet as the only place you will be at from birth to death and nothing after for sure.   Humanity will be better off.

Sir,  you are correct. Humanity can think that way logically. That is, there is no heaven or hell. However, it's is also logical to think that there's heaven and hell. With regards to the logic of the existence of an intellectual design which points to a higher being, there is a thread here with the arguments already laid. With regards to the existence of heaven or hell, I think it is logical din because in the absence of the knowledge of the afterlife, there are also people who, since I'm the absence of said knowledge, doesn't hold himself accountable kaya they can possibly and intentionally do "bad" things or violate our law. Why? Probably because kapag hindi siya nahuli ng law and walang punishment, lusot na siya. However,  if he believes heaven and hell, heaven is a reward for those who believe in the creator of heaven and do good things not only for the benefit of mankind but also to glorify the higher being. However, hell is a punishment for those who do evil deeds. Medjo for me, it could also prove dangerous if there's no hell because ang magiging mentality ng tao who would want to do evil deeds, kung makalusot siya sa justice or law, libre na siya. However with the concept of hell, he's still afraid to do evil deeds because he knows he will suffer in the afterlife.

Yes sir I totally agree with you that there is nobody we know who's been there and returned. But I know that of all the religions of the world, only Christianity, thru Jesus Christ, has risen from the dead and brought back to life with witnesses.



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[bumblebee]

That cannot be answered kung which is more. The point of the bible is not how many water came from the sky or under the earth but why it happened.

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Thank you for that. But some believers view it differently. And i wanna know how they view it.

[DPT]

Are you sure they are fiction?

when i was young we had an experience where our car got some trouble running when are coming back from old tandang sora (back when it is still full of balete trees). and there was this bright light at the back even when we are the only one on the road on the way to quezon memorial.  Our drive becomes normal only when we reach the circle. My uncle said he saw a big creature like a tikbalang took a ride with us when leaving their house in tandang sora.

another experience is when i was a new born again. barely a month i suddenly woke up around 3am when i felt a huge creature seating on me cursing me and mocking me being  christian.  it looks exactly like a kapre.   almost choke me to death until I remember the power of the name of Jesus. It went away after I commanded it to get off me in Jesus name.

So are they real? of course they are. Who are they? not the fallen angels but the nephilim that died in the flood and those annihilated by the Israelites. They became disembodied spirits also known as demons.

I respect your whole believe system.

But the thing, truth has a funny thing. For something to be considered something to be truth. It should not only claimed to have happened. It should be reproducible but also can be validated or verified. 


Religion lore has done a great job of distanced  themselves from UFOs, ancient giants, other scientifically unproven myths.

The bible is a heavily edited document which is a  mix of, history emblemished  lore, and story telling.

If you ask any knowledgeable person about the bible.  It is just a collection of books written by different persons of different time period stitched together. The condition a particular book was written no one knows for most part. 

The usual answer is " the writer was inspired by the holy ghost when it was written" 

The version of the bible that  people read now came into being  3 centuries after supposedly christ death.

[DPT]

Sir,  you are correct. Humanity can think that way logically. That is, there is no heaven or hell. However, it's is also logical to think that there's heaven and hell. With regards to the logic of the existence of an intellectual design which points to a higher being, there is a thread here with the arguments already laid. With regards to the existence of heaven or hell, I think it is logical din because in the absence of the knowledge of the afterlife, there are also people who, since I'm the absence of said knowledge, doesn't hold himself accountable kaya they can possibly and intentionally do "bad" things or violate our law. Why? Probably because kapag hindi siya nahuli ng law and walang punishment, lusot na siya. However,  if he believes heaven and hell, heaven is a reward for those who believe in the creator of heaven and do good things not only for the benefit of mankind but also to glorify the higher being. However, hell is a punishment for those who do evil deeds. Medjo for me, it could also prove dangerous if there's no hell because ang magiging mentality ng tao who would want to do evil deeds, kung makalusot siya sa justice or law, libre na siya. However with the concept of hell, he's still afraid to do evil deeds because he knows he will suffer in the afterlife.

Yes sir I totally agree with you that there is nobody we know who's been there and returned. But I know that of all the religions of the world, only Christianity, thru Jesus Christ, has risen from the dead and brought back to life with witnesses.



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IMHO, Fearing supernatural retribution  is not the way to go about trying to make good people. 

Here is the thing that we should be aware of;

Beside killing view morality  on things differently. 

We are bias creatures. We do nasty/horrible things and still feel good because we can fool ourselves.   

You can see rich people who treat his country men like crap in churches because he believes or fool himself he is not doing anything wrong.

Corrupt government  people who steal for their families and still feels good because he fooled himself  that he is doing a good thing because it is for his family.

Hypocrites  who says government and religions should be separate but  lobby using their voting block to further their agenda and still feels god because they are doing gods work.


My point is, even with heaven and hell. People will still do things even if it is wrong  as long it makes them feel good.

This is actually scientifically proven.






   

[Moks007]

That is why in Matthew 7:14 it says

13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.…

[DPT]

That is why in Matthew 7:14 it says

13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.…

It could be anyone.  Even the present churches. It is soo vague maybe that is why it is  the favorite cliche line for any disagreement.

Monopoly of the religious franchise is more worrisome for me.

It is even right to say  their way or the highway?

[Nelson de Leon]

IMHO, Fearing supernatural retribution  is not the way to go about trying to make good people. 

Here is the thing that we should be aware of;

Beside killing view morality  on things differently. 

We are bias creatures. We do nasty/horrible things and still feel good because we can fool ourselves.   

You can see rich people who treat his country men like crap in churches because he believes or fool himself he is not doing anything wrong.

Corrupt government  people who steal for their families and still feels good because he fooled himself  that he is doing a good thing because it is for his family.

Hypocrites  who says government and religions should be separate but  lobby using their voting block to further their agenda and still feels god because they are doing gods work.


My point is, even with heaven and hell. People will still do things even if it is wrong  as long it makes them feel good.

This is actually scientifically proven.






   

Yes sir I agree with you sir. With or without religion, people would still do evil things. No question about that sir. Joining any religion may or may not help in the being of a person because it is still a choice.

However to be specific, I strongly believe that Christianity and it's beliefs MAY (sir no offense meant with the caps lock but just emphasizing that it's not a guarantee) "help" in letting some people know that there is a retribution in the afterlife.

You have cited very good examples of religion and non belief of a religion's possible consequences. And since you said that the fear of retribution is not the way to go in making good people, do you mind if I ask for your opinion as to how it is for you to make good people?

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[Nelson de Leon]

I respect your whole believe system.

But the thing, truth has a funny thing. For something to be considered something to be truth. It should not only claimed to have happened. It should be reproducible but also can be validated or verified. 


Religion lore has done a great job of distanced  themselves from UFOs, ancient giants, other scientifically unproven myths.

The bible is a heavily edited document which is a  mix of, history emblemished  lore, and story telling.

If you ask any knowledgeable person about the bible.  It is just a collection of books written by different persons of different time period stitched together. The condition a particular book was written no one knows for most part. 

The usual answer is " the writer was inspired by the holy ghost when it was written" 

The version of the bible that  people read now came into being  3 centuries after supposedly christ death.

That is not true sir. I would suggest that you read the history of the bible and how each book came into being before you conclude your opinion.

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[Nelson de Leon]

Thank you for that. But some believers view it differently. And i wanna know how they view it.

Medjo sir. Kaya most of the time I try to understand faith and the bible logically. I use to have those questions and queries like yours. However when I slowly try to understand the bible and why it's logical, I also try to interpret it in a logical manner that would be acceptable to me and to others.

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[Nelson de Leon]

That is why in Matthew 7:14 it says

13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.…

Napanuod ko ito sa movie na "Devil's Advocate"  Hehe!

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[Nelson de Leon]

That is why in Matthew 7:14 it says

13Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.…

It could be anyone.  Even the present churches. It is soo vague maybe that is why it is  the favorite cliche line for any disagreement.

Monopoly of the religious franchise is more worrisome for me.

It is even right to say  their way or the highway?

To better understand what that verse means, allow me to quote the succeeding verse

16  By their fruits you will get knowledge of them. Do men get grapes from thorns or figs from thistles?

The verses does not tell the believers to just be on guard for false prophets but how. Meaning thru their fruits (actions and decisions) believers will know if he is a false prophet.

The book was written around 50ad and it was part of the "Sermon on the Mount". It is part of Jesus' teachings and some clarification from the Old Testament. The writer was talking to his jewish christian listeners retelling to them the life of Jesus and teaches them to be careful in believing what they hear.

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[dpogs]

I respect your whole believe system.

But the thing, truth has a funny thing. For something to be considered something to be truth. It should not only claimed to have happened. It should be reproducible but also can be validated or verified. 


Religion lore has done a great job of distanced  themselves from UFOs, ancient giants, other scientifically unproven myths.

The bible is a heavily edited document which is a  mix of, history emblemished  lore, and story telling.

If you ask any knowledgeable person about the bible.  It is just a collection of books written by different persons of different time period stitched together. The condition a particular book was written no one knows for most part. 

The usual answer is " the writer was inspired by the holy ghost when it was written" 

The version of the bible that  people read now came into being  3 centuries after supposedly christ death.

 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews

11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews

By faith noah buold an ark even though he doesnt have any idea about flood or never seen flood in hisife.

By faith abraham go to a place he doesnt know if it exist and where.

[bumblebee]

By faith? Didn't god communicate to them directly?

[dpogs]

By faith? Didn't god communicate to them directly?

building an ark without any idea what flood is - that is faith
going to a place you dont even know if it exiat - that is faith

[bumblebee]

Obedience is better term.

[dpogs]

Obedience is better term.

Yes. An obedient faith.

[JT]

Obedience is better term.

My definition of faith ...

Faith is believing and obeying so
even when it doesn't seems so
so that it will be so
because God say so

[bumblebee]

My definition of faith ...

Faith is believing and obeying so
even when it doesn't seems so
so that it will be so
because God say so

Or it can be satan.

[JT]

Or it can be satan.

what do you mean by satan? is it how to know if from God or from Satan?

[bumblebee]

Yup.

[Nelson de Leon]

My definition of faith ...

Faith is believing and obeying so
even when it doesn't seems so
so that it will be so
because God say so

Yes. An obedient faith.

Obedience is better term.

Yes sir. I'm the context of Christianity, faith works hand in hand with believe, trust and obedience. One cannot do without the other.



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