Author Topic: Recommendations for DAC  (Read 40837 times)

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Online Stagea

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2012 at 03:07 AM »
The only solution I've found so far is to use JRiver Media Player and its "Event-Style" WASAPI output with the Hardware Buffer size set to 10ms. Problem is, JRiver costs like 50USD which is waaay overpriced in a sea of free music players.

I'm not sure if I've asked this before, but have you used another computer for your DAC? I'm asking because Event-Style WASAPI's greatest advantage is its lower overhead. This makes it a boon for a laboring system.

Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012 at 05:50 AM »
No but I'm using it on an pc with an Intel Core i5 2500K, 8 gigs of ram and an SSD. I googled about the issue and there seems to be a quite few user reports of same problem with the HRT and some other DACs. Certain async DACs are sensitive to latency settings in wasapi exlusive mode and only work well at lower settings which is actually more hardware resource intensive for the host computer.

IIRC, "event-style" wasapi is only supposed to enable the DAC to pull the data stream from the computer instead of the other way around ensuring that the external DAC is the one that is doing all the synchronizing and not the usb host computer thus eliminating the aforementioned issue.

I'll try media monkey hopefully its good, otherwise I'll have to stick with Jriver Media Center. In any case, I'm not going back to foobar until the developer implements event-style wasapi exclusive output.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012 at 06:11 AM by °BSΩLE†e »

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012 at 06:04 AM »
For me, on the Musiland USD 01 foobar running  ASIO sounds better than WASAPI.

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2012 at 06:21 AM »
IIRC, "event-style" wasapi is only supposed to enable the DAC to pull the data stream from the computer instead of the other way around making sure that the dac is the one that is doing all the synchronizing and not the usb host computer therefore eliminating the aforementioned issue.
Yes, Event Style reduces operational overhead and allows almost direct to driver access.

In some cases, the popping problem with WASAPI can be USB-compatibility/latency related. Connecting the device to a port with a separate root hub or to another controller altogether often solves the issue.

If your USB controller happens to be from ASmedia, VIA, or some other less popular brand, do not rule out the compatibility issue possibility. Intel, AMD and NEC USB Chipsets have the best compatibility afaik, because of their popularity.
 
For me, on the Musiland USD 01 foobar running  ASIO sounds better than WASAPI.
ASIO allows true integer transfers (though this is no assurance that the driver handles the data in native integer form), while WASAPI uses FP which is reconverted back to Integer. The latter allows for very minute quantification errors, depending on implementation (not true bitperfect, but essentially bitperfect).

Musiland's different driver paths do sound a little different though, which may be the biggest reason for the difference that you noticed. One path often sounds better than the other, depending on how it melds with the rest of the system. Driver updates for Musiland products also often include firmware flashes, which can make changes to the sonic signature.

Also try setting the sample rate mode to Precision. This can reduce jitter and spdif lock issues.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2012 at 06:51 AM by Stagea »

Offline haboky

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2012 at 11:22 AM »
^ True, 'cept for the clicks and pops when routing audio via WASAPI to the HRT.

The only solution I've found so far is to use JRiver Media Player and its "Event-Style" WASAPI output with the Hardware Buffer size set to 10ms. Problem is, JRiver costs like 50USD which is waaay overpriced in a sea of free music players.

I'm open to recommendations for any free or low-cost alternatives that offer similar output options and run glitch-free with asynchronous USB DACs.


haven't heard any clicks and pops when i auditioned it. it was connected to a mac with itunes. have you tried using foobar? thanks..  :)
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Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2012 at 09:05 PM »
Judging from what I've read from the various forums on the Musicstreamer, Mac users seem to be unaffected. Both the Jriver and foobar2k devs claim that it is an issue that has something to do with the Windows Vista/7 audio stack. Hopefully this would be fixed with Windows 8.

I've been a long-time foobar2000 user until recently. Direct sound works, WASAPI = clicks and pops.

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2012 at 06:27 PM »
Windows 7 here. Absolutely no clicks or pops via optical out from motherboard audio to Foobar 2000 through WASAPI to Rega DAC. Quadcore Phenom II with 8 gig ram.

Offline haboky

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #37 on: May 16, 2012 at 07:25 PM »
Judging from what I've read from the various forums on the Musicstreamer, Mac users seem to be unaffected. Both the Jriver and foobar2k devs claim that it is an issue that has something to do with the Windows Vista/7 audio stack. Hopefully this would be fixed with Windows 8.

I've been a long-time foobar2000 user until recently. Direct sound works, WASAPI = clicks and pops.

thanks for the info °BSΩLE†e. I have same experience with my fiio e10. It has pops and clicks with foobar2k and wasapi.
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Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #38 on: May 16, 2012 at 09:23 PM »
Windows 7 here. Absolutely no clicks or pops via optical out from motherboard audio to Foobar 2000 through WASAPI to Rega DAC. Quadcore Phenom II with 8 gig ram.

I used to have foobar2k configured with WASAPI outputting to a DAC hooked up via Toslink optical. All this running under Windows 7 and I never experienced any clicks and pops on that setup. The glitches only affect certain DACs interfaced via USB.

Regardless, problem solved with JRiver Media Center 17, WASAPI Exclusive Mode output: Event-Style with the hardware buffer set to 10ms. As an added bonus, the sound quality's much improved over foobar2k. It'll take some time to get used to the bloat of MC17 though. ;D
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012 at 09:35 PM by °BSΩLE†e »

Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #39 on: Jun 09, 2012 at 06:12 PM »
I'm back to using foobar2000. Installed the latest version 1.1.13 with the WASAPI output plugin version 3.0 beta 4 set to event-style (pull mode). No more glitches with the HRT even with the hardware buffer set high. Nice!  ;D
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2012 at 06:13 PM by °BSΩLE†e »

Offline haboky

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #40 on: Jun 09, 2012 at 06:22 PM »
I'm back to using foobar2000. Installed the latest version 1.1.13 with the WASAPI output plugin version 3.0 beta 4 set to event-style (pull mode). No more glitches with the HRT even with the hardware buffer set high. Nice!  ;D

nice.. in my case, i'm using a self powered hub as advised by Kevin of HRT. It opened up the sound stage and the bass is now more pronounced.  ;D ;D
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Offline Mr. Bungle

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #41 on: Jun 09, 2012 at 06:41 PM »
I'm also now using a Belkin self-powered USB hub with my HRT. It really cleaned up the sound quality of the DAC which sounded a bit harsh without it. I guess the hub helped isolate the DAC from the "weak and dirty" power of the computer's USB ports.
« Last Edit: Jun 09, 2012 at 06:46 PM by °BSΩLE†e »

Offline haboky

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #42 on: Jun 09, 2012 at 07:07 PM »
i sometimes hear white noise if i increase the bit/depth rate to 24/96.. though this could be because of the poor bandwidth of my usb port.  >:(
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #43 on: Jun 10, 2012 at 02:24 AM »
i sometimes hear white noise if i increase the bit/depth rate to 24/96.. though this could be because of the poor bandwidth of my usb port.  >:(

Z370 has USB 2.0 ports. USB 2.0 is more than enough for 24/96.

Check your software extensively. If everything checks out, try a different DAC.

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #44 on: Jun 10, 2012 at 08:37 AM »
Z370 has USB 2.0 ports. USB 2.0 is more than enough for 24/96.

Check your software extensively. If everything checks out, try a different DAC.

thanks for the advise..  :)
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #45 on: Jun 10, 2012 at 08:06 PM »
just an update. i used a shorter usb cable (1.5mtrs) it eliminated the static noise.. :D
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2012 at 08:12 PM by mateo »
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #46 on: Jun 10, 2012 at 08:26 PM »
FYI, foobar2k WASAPI 3.0 Beta 5 plugin is out. It solved the occasional pauses that I encountered with the previous betas.  It just keeps on getting better and better. :)

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #47 on: Jun 16, 2012 at 06:37 PM »
thanks for the suggestion.. i am now using wasapi beta 5.. minimized the pause and pops..   ;D
« Last Edit: Jun 16, 2012 at 06:38 PM by mateo »
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #48 on: Jun 23, 2012 at 04:36 PM »
If you really want to get rid of those annoying clicks and pops once and for all, just use Direct Sound output. Seriously.

I can't hear the difference between DS and WASAPI anyway. At least in foobar2000.  ;D

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #49 on: Jun 23, 2012 at 07:19 PM »
yup.. you're right.. i can't distinguish which sounds better.. hehe..  ;D
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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #50 on: Jan 16, 2013 at 06:28 PM »
Any users of Cambridge Audio DAC Magic Plus or 100? Any impressions? :)

I've had CA 740C.

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #51 on: Jan 21, 2013 at 09:49 AM »
Nice piece of hardware boss nelson! iniisip ko nga rin ung CDP w/ DAC...kasi konti lang difference sa price, may CDP na :)

I've had CA 740C.

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #52 on: Jan 21, 2013 at 03:07 PM »
Dedicated DAC VS CD player with DAC

Would a CD Player with DAC perform as well as a dedicated DAC?

The Audiolab M-DAC is $1070.  for $300 more, i can get the Audiolab 8200CD CDPlayer w/ DAC instead  :-\

Thanks! :)




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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #53 on: Jan 21, 2013 at 03:09 PM »
Dedicated DAC VS CD player with DAC

Would a CD Player with DAC perform as well as a dedicated DAC?

The Audiolab M-DAC is $1070.  for $300 more, i can get the Audiolab 8200CD CDPlayer w/ DAC instead  :-\

Thanks! :)




what are your needs?
if you preffered orig CD then ill go with cdp
you may also buy both or
you may purchase DAC and buy cheap cdp for transport
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #54 on: Jan 21, 2013 at 04:10 PM »
may konting CD collections ako...For now, ang gusto ko talaga to hook up my pc and iphone/ipod. Ganun na nga lang cguro, next time na ung cdp. Medyo nang hinayang kasi ako $300 na lang, may cdp na.

Anyway, wla ring headphone jack ung 8000cd ung 8000cdQ meron, kaso $600 more. Thanks!

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #55 on: Jan 21, 2013 at 04:18 PM »
may konting CD collections ako...For now, ang gusto ko talaga to hook up my pc and iphone/ipod. Ganun na nga lang cguro, next time na ung cdp. Medyo nang hinayang kasi ako $300 na lang, may cdp na.

Anyway, wla ring headphone jack ung 8000cd ung 8000cdQ meron, kaso $600 more. Thanks!
on your needs you need DAC ....
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #56 on: Jan 21, 2013 at 09:19 PM »
Thanks sir! :)

on your needs you need DAC ....

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #57 on: Feb 08, 2013 at 10:53 PM »
For a budget of around 20-30K, what DAC would you recommend that is the most analog sounding?
And has optical/coax inputs and also capable of 24bit/192KHz files...
USB connectivity is not necessary coz I will use my cd player and music streamer as sources...

Thanks :)

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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #58 on: Feb 08, 2013 at 11:33 PM »
Rega and mf m1 hihihi
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Re: Recommendations for DAC
« Reply #59 on: Feb 08, 2013 at 11:54 PM »
Rega and mf m1 hihihi

Nasa listahan ko yan sis...
Ok din kaya yung Schit saka CA Dac Magic Plus?