Author Topic: Is the Church Above The Law? Church Double Standards (Read 49072 times)

BusyChild · « **Reply #30 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 04:35 PM »

Quote from: leomarley on Sep 01, 2011 at 04:33 PM

oo sir pareho tayo ng iniisip hehehe... and hindi lang naman sa kasong ito kinukupara yung Church kundi sa iba pang kaso ng abuse by Church priests as pointed out by Sir Rusty.

Hmmmm... bakit sa post ni rusty (http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2007/03_04/2007_04_17_Sipe_InternationalTraffic.htm), halos puro "fled to the Philippines" yung mga accused???

Anong meron sa Philippines?!? Yung isa umamin na, naging monsignor pa... wow! Tsk tsk...

Klaus Weasley · « **Reply #31 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 04:43 PM »

Where is bass_nut, rascal101, AVPhile and GC? I'd like to hear what they think.

leomarley · « **Reply #32 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 04:45 PM »

i just opened the link provided by sir rusty. grabe, ganung kadami pala ang itinago ng Church.

rusty · « **Reply #33 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 04:47 PM »

Quote from: BusyChild on Sep 01, 2011 at 04:35 PM

Hmmmm... bakit sa post ni rusty (http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2007/03_04/2007_04_17_Sipe_InternationalTraffic.htm), halos puro "fled to the Philippines" yung mga accused???

Anong meron sa Philippines?!? Yung isa umamin na, naging monsignor pa... wow! Tsk tsk...

Hindi ko kasi pi-naste yung buong article. Pinili ko lang yung kasong may koneksyon sa Philippines. Masyado kasing marami e.

Si monsignor naman, mukhang active pa yata

https://secure.flickr.com/photos/arnoldcarl/4993344566/

barrister · « **Reply #34 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 04:59 PM »

Quote from: BusyChild on Sep 01, 2011 at 04:35 PM

Hmmmm... bakit sa post ni rusty (http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2007/03_04/2007_04_17_Sipe_InternationalTraffic.htm), halos puro "fled to the Philippines" yung mga accused???

Anong meron sa Philippines?!? Yung isa umamin na, naging monsignor pa... wow! Tsk tsk...

Gandang article yon a.

Pero hindi naman puro fled to the Philippines. Mas marami ang Ireland and Mexico.

Ayaw ko munang husgahan si Fr. Cabonce. Mahirap kasi, baka hindi totoo ang akusasyon.

Pero itong si Msgr. Cristobal Garcia, ibang klase pala talaga:

Priest Accused of Rapes Finds Prominence
Filipino church leaders welcome Garcia despite incidents with altar boys
By Brooks Egerton
Dallas Morning News
March 16, 2005

... Monsignor Garcia, in an interview at his religious compound, acknowledged having sex with Mr. Corral and another Los Angeles altar boy when they were in their early teens.

One of them "not only seduced me, he also raped me," the priest said.

http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news/2005_03_16_Egerton_PriestAccused.htm

indie boi · « **Reply #35 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 05:51 PM »

The bigger issue here is that the Church is hiding the suspect. Kahit pa sabihing inosente sya. Pwede bang gawin 'to ng karaniwang tao ng walang legal repercussions? May provision ba sa Revised Penal Code na pag sinabi ng suspect na inosente sya pwede syang hindi ibigay sa autoridad?

FrancisD · « **Reply #36 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 06:00 PM »

Well: one thing to remember is everyone is human.

For the Catholic Church, we know our history right? Rizal? Gomburza? Watch the Borgias, this one even downplays the things the church did in the renaissance era...

But also look at other religions. Muslim faith (9/11) / Terrorisms, Cults (Cults in the US / other areas raping women and children). Look at whats happening to our OFW, conservatively 20% are raped / sexually abused.

Go to QC / Mkti - women are being raped by society for money becuase few options are available for survival. And we are Christians, right? The Politicians and their lawyers are Christians too???

We are the biggest non-practicing Christians likely in Asia.

In this kind of society-we expect priests to be magically saints? that priesthood changes human nature for all priests somehow, not just priests but leaders of other religions as well?

Dan · « **Reply #37 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 06:07 PM »

Rape suspects are human -- be they priests, persons of other faiths or hoodlums. They must be given due process just like every other human under the law. No one is supposed to be special.

barrister · « **Reply #38 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 06:36 PM »

Quote from: indie boi on Sep 01, 2011 at 05:51 PM

The bigger issue here is that the Church is hiding the suspect. Kahit pa sabihing inosente sya. Pwede bang gawin 'to ng karaniwang tao ng walang legal repercussions? May provision ba sa Revised Penal Code na pag sinabi ng suspect na inosente sya pwede syang hindi ibigay sa autoridad?

I wouldn't say the Church is hiding the respondent. Not yet, at least.

Any respondent has the right to ignore the prosecutor's office during the preliminary investigation stage. If the respondent refuses to appear and does not submit counter-affidavits, the investigating officer shall resolve the complaint based on the evidence presented by the complainant.

After issuance of a resolution finding probable cause, the case goes to the judiciary and the judge issues a warrant for the arrest of the accused. Once a warrant is issued, it is only then that the accused must surrender, after which he may post bail for his temporary liberty.

As of now, the respondent has no obligation to surrender or appear anywhere, since the investigating prosecutor has not yet resolved the case. In fact, preliminary investigation hearings have not even commenced.

RU9 · « **Reply #39 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 07:52 PM »

Links:

Gabriela wants Bishop Pueblos to surrender priest accused of rape
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/230935/regions/gabriela-wants-bishop-pueblos-to-surrender-priest-accused-of-rape

Gabriela calls on Butuan Bishop to stop coddling priest charged with rape of minor
http://bulatlat.com/main/2011/08/30/gabriela-calls-on-butuan-bishop-to-stop-coddling-priest-charged-with-rape-of-minor/

Priest accused of rape to face church panel
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/regions/08/30/11/priest-accused-rape-face-church-panel

Bishop confirms he has custody of priest accused of rape
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/48857/bishop-confirms-he-has-custody-of-priest-accused-of-rape

rascal101 · « **Reply #40 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 11:36 PM »

Quote from: indie boi on Sep 01, 2011 at 10:42 AM

For me a warrant is beside the point. The fact that the church leaders didn't bring him to the police and that he was just reassigned should be a cause for concern for anyone who is truly concerned about justice.

I think people are innocent until proven guilty. Everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt.

What if it turns out that the priest is really innocent. What then?

indie boi · « **Reply #41 on:** Sep 01, 2011 at 11:52 PM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Sep 01, 2011 at 11:36 PM

I think people are innocent until proven guilty. Everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt.

What if it turns out that the priest is really innocent. What then?

So dapat may due process?

Klaus Weasley · « **Reply #42 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 01:30 AM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Sep 01, 2011 at 11:36 PM

I think people are innocent until proven guilty. Everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt.

What if it turns out that the priest is really innocent. What then?

Absolutely. The Church MUST surrender him to the civil authorities and his crimes be tried in a CIVILIAN court. His status as a priest must not subject him to a special treatment. He should be tried like anyone else. If he's truly innocent, then he shouldn't hide under the Church's protection and he should face the civilian courts like any person accused of a crime.

dpogs · « **Reply #43 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 01:57 AM »

ulitin ko lang nabanggit ni sir barrister...

wala pang warrant of arrest... kaya hindi puwedeng tawaging nagtatago ang paring ito... o kinakanlungan ng simbahang katoliko...

kapag may pinalabas na warrant of arrest tapos hindi pa lumabas at dumepensa ang simbahang katoliko.. saka na nating sabihin na may proteksiyon ang simbahang katoliko...

huwag padadala sa init ng ulo o emosyon...

ang paring ito ay hindi pa napapatunayang nagkasala... inaakusahan pa lang siya ng biktima... akusado pero hindi sentinsyado... inakusahan pero hindi pa maysala.

Verbl Kint · « **Reply #44 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 05:41 AM »

I'd also like to point out that defending a rape suspect is an enormous challenge for any lawyer, lalo na sa pilipinas.

indie boi · « **Reply #45 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 07:06 AM »

Quote from: dpogs on Sep 02, 2011 at 01:57 AM

huwag padadala sa init ng ulo o emosyon...

If only this could be applied to ALL SITUATIONS then walang problema. Kaya lang selective pa din. Dito sa thread na to dapat huminahon muna tayong lahat, "pagbigyan muna natin." Dun sa isang thread, "naargabyado kami dapat may aksyon agad, sagasaan na ang dapat sagasaan."

Double Standards.

jerix · « **Reply #46 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 07:46 AM »

In this rape case if there is really one, is not a case against the catholic church. This is a crime committed by an individual against the state. If a case has been filed against this priest, then what we just have to ascertain is whether or not the processes of the law are done regularly. If the rudiments of the law are carefully observed, there is actually no reason for us to cry foul. if the law could not reach the accused priest because he is harbored by some of his colleagues in the church then there is a case called harboring a criminal.

I think the case of the church being above the law happens when the established reason of the state in not going after the priest despite the law, is because he is a member or official of the church. In that case the majesty of the law is obviously subordinated by the reason of his membership to the church.

I agree that the catholic church is guilty of being an AC/DC or exercising double standards in terms of issues of morality. So many look up to them because of their role in the community. But you know I think this is just an illusion. Because for me the Catholic Church is just like an ordinary organization who professes in reality nothing besides its best human interests. I doubt if GOD knows this as a church who is supposed to be propagating his pure Christian doctrines.

leomarley · « **Reply #47 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 08:02 AM »

Quote from: rascal101 on Sep 01, 2011 at 11:36 PM

I think people are innocent until proven guilty. Everyone should be given the benefit of the doubt.

What if it turns out that the priest is really innocent. What then?

as we have pointed out, it's not only in this case but in other cases as well. look at the link that sir rusty has posted on the earlier page. when a member of the Church is accused of rape/abuse they ship the priest out to another country/diocese. the problem is not only this one but many others as well.

Issue here is double standards of the Church and it seems some Catholics also has double standards.

Mr. Hankey · « **Reply #48 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 09:04 AM »

The amount of religious intolerance here at PinoyDVD is very eye opening.

RU9 · « **Reply #49 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 09:17 AM »

Quote from: Mr. Hankey on Sep 02, 2011 at 09:04 AM

The amount of religious intolerance here at PinoyDVD is very eye opening.

No , it is not about religious intolerance. Just the basic right or wrong discussion.

manuelbuencamino's Q & A.

Question: What is worse than Mideo Cruz sticking a penis on Christ’s face?

Answer: A Catholic priest sticking his penis into an unwilling minor.

Question: What could be worse than that?

Answer: A bishop sticks his nose in and offers protection to the erring priest. (No pun intended.)

Mr. Hankey · « **Reply #50 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 09:24 AM »

No, read the other comments on the thread. Many are based on complete and utter intolerance.

Not every Catholic offended and/or outraged by Mideo's art is stupid enough to defend priests who commit heinous crimes. But that's the tone and implication of many posts on this thread. And if you don't see it, then you're either extremely naive or are intentionally playing dumb.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not personally offended by the intolerance. I just find it to be very eye opening.

dindop · « **Reply #51 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 10:08 AM »

Quote from: indie boi on Sep 01, 2011 at 05:51 PM

The bigger issue here is that the Church is hiding the suspect. Kahit pa sabihing inosente sya. Pwede bang gawin 'to ng karaniwang tao ng walang legal repercussions? May provision ba sa Revised Penal Code na pag sinabi ng suspect na inosente sya pwede syang hindi ibigay sa autoridad?

Am not exactly sure if "the Church is hiding the suspect" from the law. If they've made it known that the suspect is within their custody, for the time being, they might just be protecting the suspect from being lynched by a mob, or the victim's kamaganak inc. - or something to that effect. It's possible that the Church wants the suspect to get due process, arrive in court, alive.

I can't imagine if i was the father of the victim. Somebody'd better hide that bugger from me fast, i mean really, really fast.

Battousai · « **Reply #52 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 10:18 AM »

Ewan ko ba sa inyo, pero para sa akin, mas nakaka-alarma yung situwasyon na pag naririnig o nababasa ko itong mga ganitong istorya e parang wala lang. Kasi hindi na bago to para sa akin. Yun bang "what else is new?" attitude ko tungkol sa ganitong pangyayari e natural na. Hindi na ko nagre-react na "ano ba yan?! pari pa naman sya!"

Innocent sila until proven guilty. Given na yan. Yung "tao lang naman sila" e hindi rason yan. Ano yan, escape clause nila para gumawa ng kalokohan?

indie boi · « **Reply #53 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 10:24 AM »

Nothing illustrates double standards more than this cartoon:

By the way, I'm not an atheist, neither am I a Catholic (anymore).

rusty · « **Reply #54 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 10:44 AM »

Para sa akin hindi pa 'religious intolerance' ang mga comments dito at sa kabilang thread.

Religious intolerance def via wikipedia - is when a group (e.g., a society, religious group, non-religious group) specifically refuses to tolerate practices, persons or beliefs on religious grounds (i.e., intolerance in practice).

Hindi naman tayo intolerant ng mga paniniwalang kristyano o sa mga taong kristyano, kundi ay nag-e-express lang naman tayo ng outrage sa double standards ng ating lipunan. Hindi naman tayo intolerant sa mga religious practices ng mga katoliko, pwera na lang kung matatawag mong religious practice yung 'coddling a criminal' o kaya 'raping a minor'.

Siguro pag may nag-vandalize sa atin ng ating lokal na parokya, katulad ng pangvavandalize nila sa exhibit ni Mideo, religious intolerance na yun.

RU9 · « **Reply #55 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 06:44 PM »

Quote from: Mr. Hankey on Sep 02, 2011 at 09:24 AM

But that's the tone and implication of many posts on this thread.

So just the tone and implications of the posts is religious intolerance to you.

Religious intolerance is prejudice against individuals or groups based on religious convictions, affiliations or practices. This prejudice can manifest as violent action and/or intimidation, with the intent to deny the right to practice religion freely or to deny basic human rights.
http://fightingreligiousintolerance.org/user-guide/what-is-intolerance

Other Definitions of Religious Intolerance

“Not respecting the fundamental human right of other people to hold religious beliefs that are different from your own.” ~Religioustolerance.org

“Religious intolerance is the refusing to acknowledge and support the right of individuals to have their own beliefs and related legitimate practices and the unwillingness to have one’s own beliefs and related practices critically evaluated.” ~Sexual Assault Centre of Brant

“The practice of keeping others from acting in accordance with their religious beliefs.” ~Stanford’s Encyclopedia of Philosophy

FrancisD · « **Reply #56 on:** Sep 02, 2011 at 10:45 PM »

I think in the case of the religious the standards are different. We deserve and expect better.

For civilians, we are after the judicial process. But with people of faith, we are after more than that - we are after the truth! Meaning we can go beyond the minimum of the judicial process and rights. We should not expect technicalities to get in the way. If not, then what are the religious preaching moral values for?

I think the Church sometimes forget that the catholics are part of the Church too and must be safeguarded as well.

Klaus Weasley · « **Reply #57 on:** Sep 09, 2011 at 01:50 AM »

Here's an interesting article.

I can't help but wonder how many Filipino children were raped by Catholic priests in the Philippines. The Catholic Church is still a very powerful presence here and can easily, EASILY cover it up because our politicians and public officials will be too scared to do anything against the Church.

sharkey360 · « **Reply #58 on:** Sep 09, 2011 at 04:03 PM »

Watch this documentary about the Inquisition

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC6NwsjqyKY

leomarley · « **Reply #59 on:** Sep 09, 2011 at 04:26 PM »

Quote from: Klaus Weasley on Sep 09, 2011 at 01:50 AM

Here's an interesting article.

I can't help but wonder how many Filipino children were raped by Catholic priests in the Philippines. The Catholic Church is still a very powerful presence here and can easily, EASILY cover it up because our politicians and public officials will be too scared to do anything against the Church.

i read this earlier. nakaka-awa yung bata na in-abuse nung mga pari at nung teacher. how can these people do these kinds of things? talk about double standards. these people are hypocrites. kung makapag-interfere sila sa politics ganun-ganun lang dahil immoral daw pero yung immorality within the Church tinatago nila.