Author Topic: Projector Screen : Recommendations please (Read 36781 times)

maldita · « **on:** Feb 08, 2002 at 03:39 AM »

hi guys! I've been looking for that cloth that is best used for a projection screen but can't seem to find it! Actually I remember its what Neo used in the screen during the last Pinoydvd party...I think its called a Blackout cloth or something. It's used behind curtains to absorb the light and all that. Anyone know where to find this?

levi · « **Reply #1 on:** Feb 08, 2002 at 09:05 AM »

How about Shell Canvass or in Kamuning.

neo · « **Reply #2 on:** Feb 09, 2002 at 06:24 AM »

maldita,

Yup, it is called Blockout Fabric (used for lining drapes) and Shell Canvas Kamuning has it in stock. They also have a branch in Glorietta (not sure where) but they don't stock it there so it has to be pre-ordered.

The fabric comes in widths of 54 inches (max) and I believe the price is P300 or P500 per yard (can't remember eh...just call them na lang). And when you buy the fabric, make sure they roll carefully it as it creases very easily.

Let me know when you're ready to build the screen. I'll tell you how you (este si joeypogi pala

) can make the frame for it...unless of course you just want to "duct tape" it to the wall like we did during the 2nd Marathon

.

Cheers - Neo

alfred · « **Reply #3 on:** Feb 10, 2002 at 08:14 AM »

Quote

maldita,

Yup, it is called Blockout Fabric (used for lining drapes) and Shell Canvas Kamuning has it in stock. They also have a branch in Glorietta (not sure where) but they don't stock it there so it has to be pre-ordered.

The fabric comes in widths of 54 inches (max) and I believe the price is P300 or P500 per yard (can't remember eh...just call them na lang). And when you buy the fabric, make sure they roll carefully it as it creases very easily.

Let me know when you're ready to build the screen. I'll tell you how you (este si joeypogi pala ) can make the frame for it...unless of course you just want to "duct tape" it to the wall like we did during the 2nd Marathon .

Cheers - Neo

Neo,

Is it Kamuning Q. C. ? Saan malapit? I been looking for this blackout cloth sa Divisoria pero sa Larry's Curtain at Parañaque nila ako tinuturo.
Thanks

neo · « **Reply #4 on:** Feb 10, 2002 at 11:04 AM »

Quote

Neo,

Is it Kamuning Q. C. ? Saan malapit? I been looking for this blackout cloth sa Divisoria pero sa Larry's Curtain at Parañaque nila ako tinuturo.
Thanks

alfred,

Shell Canvas is not exactly in Kamuning. It's actually along EDSA near Kamuning/Kamias. Coming from Cubao, it should be a few shops before you reach the EDSA-Kamuning/Kamias corner where the 7-11 Store is situated...kahanay nang Wendy's and the FF Cruz Bldg.

- Neo

levi · « **Reply #5 on:** Feb 10, 2002 at 11:09 AM »

There is also a Shell Canvass at East service road near Makro paranaque.

alfred · « **Reply #6 on:** Feb 22, 2002 at 07:56 AM »

Quote

alfred,

Shell Canvas is not exactly in Kamuning. It's actually along EDSA near Kamuning/Kamias. Coming from Cubao, it should be a few shops before you reach the EDSA-Kamuning/Kamias corner where the 7-11 Store is situated...kahanay nang Wendy's and the FF Cruz Bldg.

- Neo

Neo,

Ok thanks nakita ko na. Kaya lang where do I park? Sige diskarte lang yan. Thanks again.

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 21, 2002 at 05:43 PM »

Neo - can you share info or link on how to make a cheap FPTV screen. I just bought a 16:9 (WSVGA only)LCD FPTV from Panasonic and I don't want to break the bank to buy the screen just yet. BTW, do you visit avsforum?

neo · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 26, 2002 at 10:32 PM »

Yo striderhiryu1,

I once found a website where someone documented his DIY screen project with very clear, simple and easy to follow procedures. Unfortunately, the website does not exist anymore.

However, I managed to save the particular web page on my computer and I can email it to you if you wish, including the pics. Just PM your email address to me if you're interested.

BTW, what Panasonic projector are you using? Is it the PT-AE100? Where did you buy it and for how much?

Cheers - Neo 8)

P.S. Yup, I'm also a member of the AVS Forum.

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 27, 2002 at 12:44 PM »

Yes, its the PT-AE100 (though the Japanese version is called TH-AE100). I bought it locally in Japan for Jpy168,000 + 5% tax. Looks great temporarily projected on a white cloth. I've been reading some of the stuff in screens forum of avs but looks like I will need a real screen eventually.

You can order the pj directly from pricejapan.com but local customs charges might be prohibitive.

I'm current using a Athlon XP 1700 + Radeon 7500 to play dvds and the AE-100 looks amazing for the price.

pls. email at [email protected].

Thanks in advance!

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 31, 2002 at 10:51 PM »

Neo - thanks a lot! I received the DIY screen pics. I'll see if I can make them myself (I'm such a poor craftsman when it comes to this stuff). My wife already approved purchase of a true screen but I have to wait a few months more....

http://members.shaw.ca/danhanson/Theater/screen/screenproject.htm

And to Daniel, sorry I could not reply directly, I have tried using a Progressive scan DVD only (Pioneer DV-737) with the AE-100 and its acceptable but the picture really sings with the Radeon HTPC and so I'm dealing the complexities of an HTPC (I'm also using dscaler for other NTSC stuff so the HTPC is well worth it).

My only other experience is with the Sony W11HT (extensive viewing in a HT environment) and I must say that AE100 + HTPC (with FL-W filter, still trying to find the FL-D) is at least equal to PS dvd + 11HT (with CC30R filter). Of course with HDTV, the Sony beat the AE-100 hands down.

Good luck

neo · « **Reply #11 on:** Apr 01, 2002 at 09:51 AM »

striderhiryu1,

Looks like you found the actual link to the website I was referring to...I had it bookmarked before but the address was different then.

Anyway, good luck on your screen project. If what you need is just a temporary screen, you can mount the fabric directly to the wall using duct tape and just use styrofoam strips (painted black or wrapped in black felt paper) for your border. This is exactly what we did for the 2nd Marathon and it worked perfectly.

As for your purchase of a standard screen, you're very lucky to have a very understanding wife (he-he-he).

Keep in touch.

Cheers - Neo

arcam · « **Reply #12 on:** Apr 03, 2002 at 12:12 AM »

strider,

using the pioneer 737 dvd player with component inputs into the ae-100, would the picture be better than say a toshiba rptv?

would there be more screendoor effect using the pioneer 737 with component inputs as compared to the htpc?

how many % improvement would you say the htpc picture was over the pioneer 737 and component inputs into the ae-100.

sorry to bug you with all these questions but i'm seriously considering buying the ae100 from pricejapan without demo-ing.

thanks

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #13 on:** Apr 04, 2002 at 05:44 PM »

arcam - I'm not sure if any LCD projector can be compared to a properly calibrated Toshiba RPTV (i.e. the ones with 7" CRT/ 16:9 display), the only advantage of the AE100 is the picture size.

What I can only confirm is that the AE100 combined with a Radeon HTPC will give other FPTV a run for their money (picture quality wise).

Some people have reported favorable results with the Panasonic RP-91 or RP-56 progressive scan dvd players but I think in theory, the dvd players with VGA out (i.e. Skyworth 1050p or the Nintaus - all availaible in www.hivizone.com) will give more favorable results.

The screendoor is there regardless of what source you use but a slight defocus makes it negligible (almost unnoticeable in actual viewing). The FL-D or FL-W filter also helps reduce screen door while removing the greencast inherent in the AE-100 (due to UHM lamp).

I'll be concerned with buying from overseas since you might end up with dead pixels and this is annoying esp. if you know where it is (my first AE-100 have about 3 grouped stuck on blue pixel and the shop where I bought it from replaced the unit). My current AE-100 has no more dead pixel.

In terms of % improvement, I think HTPC is about 10-15% better (noticeable in SW TPM, American Beauty, Moulin Rouge) plus you can tweak the HTPC picture more (I'm using zoom player 2.5). The improvements are better blacks and punchier colors.

Oh and the lamps are super cheap compared to 11HT (around 20,000 yen compared to 50,000 yen for the Sony Lamp). Good value if the 5000 hour in economy mode is true. I hope to buy a 3-chip DLP after the AE-100 (o baka kasing presyo na lang ng AE-1000 young Sharp 9000 by that time). Hehehe. Sana may trabaho pa ako nun.

arcam · « **Reply #14 on:** Apr 07, 2002 at 01:13 AM »

strider,

sent u a pm

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #15 on:** Apr 09, 2002 at 06:42 PM »

arcam - did not receive your pm (I think I have it disabled)- can you just post here or in another thread if you have a particular question. or just e-mail me and I can respond in this thread.

regards,
strider

arcam · « **Reply #16 on:** Apr 15, 2002 at 12:18 AM »

strider,

the AE-100 is sold locally pala. i managed to get a demo in my place last week. since i didnt have a screen, the demo people were kind enough to bring a 60 X 60 tripod screen.

we used my pioneer 535 interlaced dvd player with component inputs into the AE-100. i also demo-ed the Plus Piano HE-3100 dlp projector on the same day using the same dvd player and component inputs also.

my observations with the AE-100 based on the above:
- colors were rich
- dark scenes were not very good. a lot of detail is lost
- i can see screen door at 12 ft away and the screen width was 75 inches. however, on the 2nd demo (after switching projectors), it was much less visible. i'm not sure if it was accidentally defocused.

compared to the Plus Piano:
- AE-100 colors were less sharp although i would be very happy with the AE-100 colors as it is.
- AE-100 dark scenes were too malayo from the detail available on the Plus Piano. i think i would not be able to live with this projector because of it's limitations on this area.

HOWEVER.....

i've been following the AVS Forum and apparently, the potential of the AE-100 will be unlocked by using the VGA input and setting to WIDE mode. please correct me if i am wrong....

questions:
- if i use something like a DVDO Iscan the use a VGA cable from the ISCAN into the AE-100 to get to the WIDE mode, will the detail and blacks on the dark scenes improve significantly?
- will the screendoor decrease if i use the above?
- any other tweaks to get the most out of the AE-100?

i'm trying to get the most out of the AE-100 because it's cheaper and has a longer lamp life than the Plus.

regards,

arcam

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #17 on:** Apr 15, 2002 at 12:22 AM »

Have not tried the iscan but if its performance is closer to a HTPC (using wide480) you'll get a much better picture. My experience with standalone dvd player was similar to what you observed (washed out colors). How much was the local price for the Plus Piano and AE-100 and where.

BTW, you also must have total light control and and FL-D filter (or similar) to get better blacks/minimize screendoor further.

If deeper blacks are your main concern, the Plus might be a better buy.

jojitb · « **Reply #18 on:** Apr 15, 2002 at 11:19 AM »

arcam
like striderhiryu1 I would like to ask what is the local pricing for the AE100? Is it cheaper than the USD$1400 as quoted in pricejapan?

arcam · « **Reply #19 on:** Apr 16, 2002 at 12:21 AM »

strider,

deep blacks are important but not the primary deciding factor. however, even if i did not look at the Plus, i would still not be happy with the blacks on the AE-100 as per last week's demo.

what is the FL-D filter? where do i get it and how much is it?

on the "defocusing" to reduce screen door.... how do i do this? if you adjust the zoom lens on the AE-100, doesn't it effectively reduce or enlarge the picture? how do i defocus it properly?

you do not get washed out blacks anymore using your HTPC?

strider, jojitb,
the AE-100 is available from a company called EPMC. they're selling it for 98,000 pesos. i think that is the SRP from Panasonic Philippines. the Plus Piano is 190,000 from Listening in Style.

jojitb · « **Reply #20 on:** Apr 16, 2002 at 03:02 PM »

PHP98,000 Wow ang mahal pala niyan dito! Bakit kaya ganun mayayaman na nga ang Hapon mura pa sa kanila ang gamit...

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #21 on:** Apr 16, 2002 at 10:48 PM »

The FL-D means flourescent to daylight filter (its a color compensating filter). The UHM lamp in AE100 (as with other LCD or DLP projector) lacks the red color (or put another way have excess green and blue). Without an FL-D filter a typical R-G-B setting for AE-100 is (+)10 for red,
(-)6 for green and (-)4 for blue. To get a more dynamic image, you must be able to crank up green and blue - but this will give you a greenish/bluish picture (kasi nga kulang na sa red ang lamp).

The FL-D filter removes most of green and blue but allows most of the red color to pass allowing you to crank up the green and blue color without imparting a greenish/bluish tint.

I'm also new to this and but you can find lots of info in AVS on filters (this link should get you started).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=918d8804a29158355de691212be7c252&threadid=108699&highlight=panasonic+filters
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=918d8804a29158355de691212be7c252&threadid=116406&highlight=ae100

I'm not sure if camera shops in RP have this. The 55mm glass filters available here in Japan cost about $10-15. If you can't find one and decide to buy a digital projector, let me know because I'll be on a one week vacation sa 'Pinas and maybe I can bring an extra FL-D filter (last week of April-1st week of May)

Mukhang MSRP ang presyong ibinigay sa iyo. I don't think the extra Php92,000 is worth it for the Plus Piano. Better wait for the next generation of DLPs to come.

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #22 on:** Apr 16, 2002 at 10:54 PM »

Quote from: arcam on Apr 16, 2002 at 12:21 AM

strider,

on the "defocusing" to reduce screen door.... how do i do this? if you adjust the zoom lens on the AE-100, doesn't it effectively reduce or enlarge the picture? how do i defocus it properly?

you do not get washed out blacks anymore using your HTPC?

De-focusing will not enlarge or reduce the picture. There is a separate thread for zoom.

I have a separate 16:9 CRT HDTV (Sony 36HDF9) and I'm also pretty sensitve to black level but the HTPC and AE-100 + filter definitely gives acceptable blacks (I only use the projector in a completely light controlled room)

arcam · « **Reply #23 on:** Apr 17, 2002 at 11:53 PM »

strider,

thanks for the settings tips on the AE-100. i'll definitely try them out on the next demo. if i end up buying the AE-100, i'll ask for your help if i cant get the FL-D filter

actually the Plus Piano is being sold to me for 190,000 without tawad pa but i think the price will not deviate far.
the AE-100 is 98,000 naman.

arcam

arcam · « **Reply #24 on:** Apr 23, 2002 at 11:41 PM »

strider,

neo was kind enough to bring his lt150 and iscan to my place and help me choose projectors. i was very impressed with his lt150 + iscan. the only thing is, i see rainbows very easily.

we also ran my interlaced dvd player into his iscan and used vga into the AE-100. neo calibrated the ae-100 and the blacks were better than when i demo-ed the ae-100 before. whereas before i could not live with the blacks, now i very much can. the only problem now is the screendoor. we were sitting 13ft away (which is too far already considering the room size) and using a 85 inch wide screen. distance is roughly 1.8x. if the picture has any "sky" in it, i can readily see the screendoor. defocusing decreases it slightly although the skies still look dirty because of the screendoor. if there is a screen with 3/4 of the screen filled with a building and 1/4 of the screen filled with sky, i would not see the screendoor on the building but would readily see it on the sky.

how have you managed the screendoor effect on your ae-100? how wide is your screen and how far away do you sit?

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #25 on:** Apr 24, 2002 at 06:08 PM »

LT-150 is a great projector. I heard from avs that further modification of the LT-150 caan increase contrast ratio by a whopping 1500:1 (AE-100 is 500:1 at best).

Have you tried the FL-D filter? This somewhat minimizes screen door (though minimized brightness a bit). I assume you set-up the AE-100 to wide480 after connecting the iscan. I have a 2 meter wide screen and I sit about 12 ft away and screendoor is negligible in my set-up.

If after slight defocus, FL-D , iscan (make sure you recalibrate) and you're still not satisfied with the screendoor, the next best thing might be an HTPC (you can try wide720P - significantly reduces screendoor but slighly softer picture).

neo · « **Reply #26 on:** Apr 24, 2002 at 08:42 PM »

strider,

Yup, arcam and I were running the AE-100 at the 480wide setting when we hooked it up to the iScan. I personally think the AE-100 is a great projector, especially for it's price. Once properly calibrated and fed a progressive signal, color saturation was excellent, the image was artifact free and the blacks were quite acceptable...although contrast could probably be improved further by using the FL-D filter and minimizing ambient light reflections (too bad arcam has some really nice looking pastel colored wall paper

).

Screen door was not noticeable during dark and color saturated scenes but was quite evident (but not objectionable) during bright scenes. We were using a DIY blockout fabric screen and I was wondering if using another type of screen would help minimize this effect.

As for the FL-D filter, would you know if this could improve the blacks of the LT-150? I haven't been following the recent threads at AVS so I really don't know if this projector/filter combo has been tried by the other members. Please give me your feedback...I might request you to buy one for me if this filter could improve the LT150's blacks. Also, how is the filter mounted to the projector's lens? Are you using a special mount?

Regarding the LT-150 mods you mentioned, are these add-ons or physical modifications? I'm not sure I have the smarts to tamper with the color wheel or input a new gamma curve. And shipping my pj to the AVS whiz kids for an overhaul is out of the question

.

Cheers - Neo

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #27 on:** Apr 25, 2002 at 12:10 AM »

Definitely try the FL-D filter for your LT-150 since as I've said previously, this trick will allow you to crank up your Green and Blue settings and will result in a more dynamic picture/improve contrast ratio.

I will be home only only for 1 wk and leaving tomorrow so baka hindi na ako makadaan sa camera shop. Ano ang thread size ng LT-150. The closest for the AE-100 was 55 mm so kung kasya eto, 'yun na lang dalhin ko.

neo · « **Reply #28 on:** Apr 25, 2002 at 12:55 AM »

strider,

Are you saying that you mounted the filter directly to the front of the lens of the AE-100 (as in a UV filter for an SLR camera)? The LT-150 doesn't have a threaded lens so this kind of attachment won't work.

The only solution would probably be to use the filter as a glass cap for the lens port of a hushbox. I was intending to build one but the project got sidetracked. At any rate, I will probably need a filter diameter larger than 55mm.

Anyway, thank you na lang. Hanap muna ako dito sa Manila (not sure if Cokin has an FL-D filter). Kung wala, maybe on your next trip na lang.

Cheers - Neo

P.S. Where are you staying here? Kung may time, baka pwede tayo magkitakita nila Arcam.

striderhiryu1 · « **Reply #29 on:** Apr 25, 2002 at 10:55 PM »

Mukhang hectic ako but usually tambay lang ako around Shang-rila Mall and Glorietta. 6 hours na lang nasa airport na ako. Mukhang ma-shock na naman ako sa humidity sa atin (spring ngayun sa Japan)

Yes! Cokin also makes filters/accessories so dapat meron sila. The filter is the same ones you use for SLRs thats why its such a cheap tweak. My impression from reading avs is that almost all LT-150 users use FL-D (brand is Hoya)

Some put it directly in front of LT-150 and angled a bit to minimize reflection going back into the LT-150 lens. Make sure you get the multicoated version since they allow more light to pass hence

You can find the profile of FL-D here
http://www.newportglass.com/hoycat.htm

and more info in this thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=918d8804a29158355de691212be7c252&threadid=116406&highlight=ae100

I'll join one of your Pinoydvd EBs maybe by December kasi mas mahaba ang vacation ko.

Most of them order their filter in this on-line store
http://www.2filter.net/