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Author Topic: Surplus amps  (Read 375878 times)

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Offline akyatbundok

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Surplus amps
« on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:01 PM »
I was at the port area this weekend to help a friend shop for a good integrated amp.   He was planning to setup a 2ch system because the wifey wasn't gonna let him spend double digits on a 5ch HT.  So he went AWOL that day and dragged me along, since i had a bit of experience buying surplus stuff.  The plan was to buy a surplus integrated amp & a bnew speaker for less than 9k.  With that budget, he doesnt have too many choices for speakers.  I recommended that he get a wharfedale diamond 8.1.

For the amp, he had alot more to choose from.  In one of my recent scouting trips, i listed down the brands/models of amps that are still in good condition so that i could get more info from the net when i get back to the office.  There was a Sony ES, a few of Onkyo Integras, and alot of silver Pioneers & Technics.  There were also obscure brands like Trio & Lo-D, which turned out to be Kenwood & Hitachi respectively.  Anyway, since he didn't have the speakers yet, I ended up comparing these 3 brands at home.

1) Onkyo Integra A-819RS (1983) and A-817XX (1987) - 105W x 2


The amp that i'm currently using to power my fronts is an Onkyo Integra w/c i bought for 3.5k.  It sounds more detailed and more powerful than my 5ch Denon receiver, w/c i bought bnew for 21k.  This is an "RS" model which came out in 1983.  The ones we saw at the pier were "XX" models which went out at around 1987 but had a lower model number (A-817).  One thing you will notice at the pier is that the power ratings for all the amps are measured in power consumption, not power output.  So the higher the consumption, the higher the price.  The Onkyos consume 210W so that would place the output to somewhere around 105W per ch.  These amps are HEAVY, with a huge power supply and 2 large caps.

2) Sony TA-F333ESX (1986) - 105W x 2


There were 4 Sony 333ES amps in different conditions that were selling for around 4-5k.  The one in best condition still had the wood side panel and was selling for 5.5k.  We were able to haggle down to 4.9k.  The ES product line from Sony is their high-end stuff, w/c is similar to Onkyo's Integra and Pioneer's Elite.  I knew that the 333ES was going to be good because i saw it in a list of top-rated amps from a Japanese site.  This is even bigger and heavier than the Onkyo, with a bigger power supply and 4 large caps hidden under the heatsink.  My friend said he almost had a slipped disk carrying the thing (19kg).  The sound was hard to distinguish from the Onkyo; both amps were clean & detailed.  The Sony "probably" sounded warmer, with slightly more bass, but I have to confirm that with a second listen.

3) Luxman LV-103 (1984) - 60W x 2, hybrid tube + solid state


And finally, I couldn't resist buying on the spot the Luxman amp even though i wasn't really shopping for an amp.  The 2 tubes peeking out from a small window was what caught my attention.  I couldn't hide my excitement w/c was a bad mistake on my part bcoz the storeowner decided to ask 4.5k for it even though this wasn't as powerful as the other amps.  We were able to haggle down to 4k.  I assume its a hybrid amp with a tubed pre-amp stage, or at least it may be a line buffer similar to the Musical Fidelity X10-D.  Either way, it made my CD player sound like an X10-D was connected.  This amp sounded better than the Onkyo or Sony on vocal & acoustic music at moderate levels.  The highs were tamed and there was definitely more "body" in the bass as if an equalizer was used.  Unfortunately, it doesn't sound as good when you turn up the volume.  Too bad it doesn't have pre-outs, I think its only weakness is the power output stage.  You can tell that from its small power supply and small capacitors.  In fairness, i was auditioning it on 3-way floorstanders with 10-inch woofers.  I'll do a 2nd round of listening test with a small 2-way bookshelf and see how they compare.  But i have a feeling that this is the amp that i will put permanently in my planned bedroom audio system.

I went there just to accompany a friend buy an Onkyo because he liked mine.  I went home with 2 additional amps.  Geez... when will i ever stop.  he he

Offline johndoe

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #1 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:11 PM »
sir how much ung sony es amps dun?mas ok cguro if i buy exactly 3 stereo amps,and connect it to my dvd player..1 for the fronts,1 for the surrounds,and one for the center and a passive sub..? maganda kaya tong idea ko ;D ;D,it will look really nice kasi..iba iba contols for the fronts,center,sub,and surround..meron din ako active sub na nakakabit ngayon sa player..kaso i would like to add one more 10 inch passive one...

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #2 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:20 PM »
johndoe, dalawang klase ng sony ES ang nandun... yung 333ESX saka 222ESJ.  di ko natanong yung price ng 222ES pero yung 333ES ay nasa 4k ang price pagkatapos ng tawad.  naisip ko na rin gawin yung 3-amps dahil mukhang weak link ang receiver ko, pero mukhang inconvenient dahil wala kang master volume control.  mahirap parati mag adjust manually ng tatlong amps.  tsaka todas ka sa electric bills pre, 650W total nung tatlong amps hehe.

Offline johndoe

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #3 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:23 PM »
maybe a lower wattage amp/amps? ::)

Offline Qman

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #4 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:25 PM »
akyat,
ayos iyong nakuha mong luxman hybrid, marami ka bang nakitang ganoon doon?

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #5 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:41 PM »
rare find yata yung luxman pre, dahil madalas ako dun sa pier pero first time ako nakakita ng tubo doon.  last week lang wala yun dun eh.  dalawang brands ang mahirap hanapin - luxman & accuphase.  kung makakita ako nun bili agad, approve without thinking.  ang impression ko kasi sa luxman at accuphase ay ka-level niya ang nakamichi.  yung mga amps nila ay usually isang dangkal ang taas dahil super laki ng power supply.  medyo exception nga lang yung nabili ko dahil mahina.  pero sa sound quality patok.

Offline Superman

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #6 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 08:49 PM »
sent you a pm, bro. roger...thanks! ;D
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Offline levi

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #7 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 09:40 PM »
good find. You might want to bring it to Hyperaudio for some fine tuning. Matagal naka stock yan.

Offline john5479

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #8 on: Aug 17, 2003 at 11:04 PM »
rare find yata yung luxman pre, dahil madalas ako dun sa pier pero first time ako nakakita ng tubo doon.  last week lang wala yun dun eh.  dalawang brands ang mahirap hanapin - luxman & accuphase.  kung makakita ako nun bili agad, approve without thinking.  ang impression ko kasi sa luxman at accuphase ay ka-level niya ang nakamichi.  yung mga amps nila ay usually isang dangkal ang taas dahil super laki ng power supply.  medyo exception nga lang yung nabili ko dahil mahina.  pero sa sound quality patok.

actually accuphase is of a higher level than nakamichi, the luxman amps sound a little bit better as well, especially if you can find the champagne colored ones with wood side panels  ;) The tube hybrid you got is a bargain maybe changing the tubes will improve the sound, especially at higher volumes...baka luma na yung tubes inside and near the end of its lifespan. or maybe just a little cleaning if the insides and checking of any loose solder should do the trick.

Those integras and sony es's you saw are those that are released only in japan and are the top of the line at the time, you are right in your opinion that these amps sound much better than the amps on entry level receivers. Plus they are heavy too due to the large trannies and caps inside. ;D

Offline Audioboy

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #9 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 08:55 AM »
akyatbundok,

sent you a pm.

Offline shine

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #10 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 09:23 AM »
marami nga rin akong nakitang Integra dun...planning to get one also. Try ko mag-setup nang pang music lang.

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #11 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 11:54 AM »
meron akong listahan ng amps na "approve without thinking" w/c is a result of my research before going to pier.  share ko na lang para mabili agad ng iba, otherwise mauubusan nanaman ako ng pera kung makita ko ito:

kenwood L-series: L-01A, L-02A, etc.
these were kenwood's top-of-the-line muscle amps in the late 70's and 80's.  some of them were priced at half a million yen, and that was before inflation.

sansui au-907x
this is one of the best amps built by sansui.  manufactured in the mid-70's during the company's prime, before quality went down in the mid-80's.  there are a few 3rd generation 607F that can be found at the pier but the 607 is not as good as the 907.
(see the internals and be amazed: http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/au-d907x-h.jpg)

pioneer sa-9900
also from the mid-70's the top-of-the-line model during pioneer's "silver age".  lower models can be found at the pier but ill reserve my purchasing until i found one of these.  distinguishing features are the handles at the back, and the speaker/RCA connections at the sides.
(internals: http://www.classic-audio.com/pioneer/pics/fxfthumb/i_sa9900.jpg.jpg)

pioneer a-717, a-838, a-636
these are pioneer's dual mono designs from the 80's during the "black age".  my friend and i saw a 636 at the pier selling for 4k but unfortunately one of the knobs was broken.  nevertheless it was sold when i came back to check.  neither one of us was able to carry it alone.  they weigh between 20kg to 30kg.
(internals:http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/a-717-in2.jpg)

kenwood trio ka-9900, ka-9300, ka-8300 & ka-7300
these amps have similar dual mono design.  separate power supplies and caps for both channels.  they look very outdated so u may be able to get them cheap for 2.5k.  very rare to find dual toroidal power supplies in an integrated amp.
(internals: http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/ka-9300-in.jpg)

any luxman & accuphase amp
just an observation while i was working there.  luxman & accuphase were always very visible whenever a recommended list was published in the stereo mags, and always in the hi-end bracket.

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #12 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 12:28 PM »
levi & john5479, thanks for the suggestion on the luxman tubes.  tama ka john, availability was japan only thats why there's hardly any info on them.  kung meron man, nihonggo pa.

Offline shine

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #13 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 12:34 PM »
akyatbundok,

how about those onkyo and yamaha sa pier? wala ka bang reviews sa mga ito? may mga models din ba silang maganda ang reviews?

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #14 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 01:13 PM »
45mm, these are the onkyo & yamaha models i would be interested in:

Onkyo Integra A-817XX, A-819RS, A-820GT
Most integras at the pier are in this category.  They basically have the same 205W - 210W power consumption so their output power is probably 100wpc and above.  The 820GT is rated 110W/ch.  Model numbers that i've seen are 817 and 819.  The last 2 letters indicate the year of manufacture, where "XX" are the latest models (1987).

Onkyo Integra A-2001
This is a black 1987 model rated at 150W/ch.  It can deliver 490W per channel on 2 ohms.  It also has built-in DACs so you can connect your CD/DVD player thru optical or coax digital cable.  Definitely, approve without thinking.

Yamaha A-8, A-9 & AX-2000A
By all means get the 1990 model AX-2000A rated at 150W/ch RMS.  It delivers 600W per channel on a 1 ohm load.  The A-8 and A-9 are 1979-1981 models that are rated 120W-150W/ch.  Very high SN ratio at 120db.


Offline BuLLeT

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #15 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 01:22 PM »
akyat,

Congratulations on your new found gems above ;D.

Your findings and reviews are very helpful.

I hope you can share more listening experience with your amps.

More power to your hunting expedition.

In due time, I will also explore the jungles of Pier for those GEMS.

Patience is a virtue ;).

Offline iceman90a

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #16 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 02:55 PM »

Onkyo Integra A-2001
This is a black 1987 model rated at 150W/ch.  It can deliver 490W per channel on 2 ohms.  It also has built-in DACs so you can connect your CD/DVD player thru optical or coax digital cable.  Definitely, approve without thinking.


bossing - pa pm naman or post kung saan mo nakita ito

thanks!
money is best spent

Offline av_phile

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #17 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 03:07 PM »
Hi akyatbundok,

I notice most of the amps you mentioned are integrateds.  Did you see any separate stereo or multi-channel power amps and preamps at the pier?  Thanks.

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #18 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 03:22 PM »
thanks bullet, good luck sa forthcoming expedition.

iceman, eto link sa onkyo a-2001.  sori ha japanese site eto eh.  original price daw was 280,000yen roughly 120k pesos.  hindi ko pa nakikita ito sa pier pero one time may nakita akong onkyo model na may digital input selector katulad nito.  di ko nakuha yung modelo that time kasi wala pa yung kati, tv ang hanap ko nun eh.
http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/a-2001.htm

av_phile, meron akong nakitang yamaha stereo pre-amp 3weeks ago na mukhang bago pa dahil anodized aluminum yung casing.  kaso nabili agad eh.  im also on the lookout for separates esp. power amps but haven't found one yet.  meron Sony AV amp na multi-channel kaso integrated dolby prologic lang.

Offline shine

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #19 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 04:32 PM »
laking tulong nito akyatbundok, sigurado dala ko na ang listahan nang mga ito pag nag hunting ako sa pier. Thanks 'pre...

Offline Onion Skin

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #20 on: Aug 18, 2003 at 07:48 PM »
levi & john5479, thanks for the suggestion on the luxman tubes.  tama ka john, availability was japan only thats why there's hardly any info on them.  kung meron man, nihonggo pa.

If you can find info on the internet which are japanese, you can easily convert them to english by simply clicking cut-and-paste and use this language converter tool at:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

Offline Audiosyndrome

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #21 on: Aug 20, 2003 at 04:22 PM »
akyatbundok,

are there marantz available in pier? can you suggest any model of this amp? tnx.

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #22 on: Aug 20, 2003 at 07:52 PM »
i didnt see too many marantz amps there except for one that's hidden at the back of tatang's shop.  he said its defective so i didnt insist.  but i did notice it was one of those thick amps with gold plated jacks.  i wasnt able to list down the model number.

but this one would be a good buy if u can find it: marantz pm-94.

http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/pm-94.htm

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps shootout part 2
« Reply #23 on: Aug 20, 2003 at 09:15 PM »
I did more listening tests on the 3 amps, this time in my bedroom using small detailed bookshelf speakers (mordaunt short ms-902).

The onkyo integra is more suited to speakers with a laid back tweeter.  I remember hearing improved definition when i still had my AE speakers.  One of the problems i had with the Aegis One was the rolled off high frequency.  They did not match too well on my Denon receiver w/c was warm sounding.  The result was that it sounded dull on movies (though magnificent on music).  But on onkyo the AE speakers had better detail.  When i switched to the brighter mordaunt speakers, the HT experience improved on the Denon receiver.  But on the onkyo there was a bit more sibilance than usual and the midrange became laid back.

The sony ES seems to have better balance on these speakers, with less sibilance and more voice.  Bass is about the same as onkyo.  On the onkyo, i turn the volume knob up to 10 o'clock only.  With the sony, its 11 o'clock.  I dunno if this is an indication of power reserve, but if it is, it would seem that onkyo can go louder.

The luxman had more defined midrange & midbass.  This is my preferred amp for vocal & acoustic music because it sounds more natural as long as you dont turn up the volume too much.  I fried one of the tweeters while testing the luxman on hard rock at loud volume.  Dunno if its the amp's fault or the speaker's fault.  Good thing the speaker is still under warranty, it shoudnt have conked at that volume.

More listening tests:

Back to my floorstanders in the living room.  I tested the luxman for a while, and im convinced it will stay in my private audio setup.  I wanted to hear how it sounds with an X10-D connected to my DVD player, and found some over-emphasis on the midrange & midbass.  Seems it doesnt like any help on the signal, except maybe for music that sounds thin.

Its now a contest between the Onkyo Integra & Sony ES to power my floorstanders (ms-908), since the luxman couldnt drive them at loud volume.  The onkyo is better balanced this time, with less of the sibilance i heard on the bookshelf speakers.  The problem now is i couldnt tell which amp is better.  Everytime i switch to the other amp, i tell myself "this sounds better".  Is there such a thing as an amp switch for A/B testing 2 amps on 1 set of speakers?

Offline instinct311

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #24 on: Aug 21, 2003 at 03:43 PM »
meron din ba sa pier na dts receiver?

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #25 on: Aug 22, 2003 at 04:06 PM »
sori bro, there are no dd/dts receivers at the pier, only pro-logic or stereo integrated amps.  they're useful only if you intend to setup a really cheap dedicated audio system that sounds really good for its price.  most of them are in bad condition, but once in a while a real gem turns up.   i usually dont expect to buy anything when i pass by the pier, but i bring my usual budget just in case.  like BuLLet said, patience is a virtue.

after buying a wharfedale diamond 8.1 yesterday, my friend's system is now complete.  he spent a total of 8.8k for the amp & speakers.  he also finally admitted to his wife where the money went.. he he.

latest sighting:

http://www.niji.or.jp/home/k-nisi/ax-z911.htm

found this integrated amp selling for 4.5k but i didnt buy it (hav enough trouble choosing between my amps).  its a 1987 model rated 110W + 110W at 6ohms, 0.0035% THD.  like the onkyo a-2001 posted above, it has a built-in D/A converter but its only the usual 16-bit 4x oversampling.  if your cheap dvd player sounds awful on cd playback, the manufacturer probably skimped on the quality of the DAC.  if thats the case you may want to check this out.

Offline john5479

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #26 on: Aug 23, 2003 at 12:28 AM »
Here's what babelfish translated..quite a mouthful  ;D

Victor AX - Z911
DIGITAL BASIC INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER
XXYEN 89 and 800
The pre- main amplifier where Victor sells in 1987. Victor first D/with A converter built-in amplifier, simple
It was the labored work which throws the amplifier technology and digital technology of the Victor tradition in future design. Especially, the D/A converter
- It was 1 unit which sets forth the feature, A class operation with the signal prediction circuit which is utilized.

As for "digital pure A" and this circuit which is named, when it will be compatible pure A class operation and high power, control of the power circuit
Being something which adds the device only of digital technology, by building in the D/A converter to the amplifier, デジタ
The ル signal being direct input possible, being something which utilizes the merit that memory is produced that digital signal to the storage cell,
It did. The digital signal which is input was distributed by the usual amplifier circuit and the signal prediction circuit, entered into the amplifier circuit
The brief difference, where the digital signal which becomes main instant is remembered in the time based processor, barely 150ms
After eating, it was designed in such a way that it is sent out to the D/A converter. And, already the preceding digital signal of one side
To be sent by the signal prediction circuit, to decide the size of the input signal promptly, simultaneously, main signal level after the D/A converting, ボリ
Analyzing the gain of �…ーム, to form the prediction signal, receiving that prediction signal, idling electric current of the power step change
It had become the mechanism that the power circuit supplies the voltage which it corresponds to the せ and the input signal. Because of this, wastefulness
Among high efficiency to make pure A class operation possible without consuming electric current, in pure A class 120W + 120W (6 Ω)
With the large output which is said was actualized. Furthermore, with usual input, had become A class operation to 20W.

In the D/A converter 16 bit multiple bit type which adopts 4 time over sampling digital filter
It was on-board. The D, by the fact that/A converter it is built in it becomes problem, the audio section of the digital section and the power source section
In order to hold down interference, the seal to do the digital signal processing section with the plate, the large-sized heat sink in boundary every baseplate ア
Separate is done the structure which had been taken the ナログ signal processing unit and the digital signal processing section.

 

Light 1, to equip the digital input of 3 systems of same axis 2 as the amplifier which can input the digital signal that way, furthermore the circuit
Shortly distance simple conversion of signal route in inside was assured. The speaker terminal is designated simply as 1 system when also
Without drawing around the input signal to the front operation panel, to be able to change, in order, relay and the electronic switch were used.
With this, the digital input time, with DAC direct switch ON, signal route only 0. 5m (the same company, past
Machine 2. 7m), the reduction simple conversion which contact point several 1 (the same company until recently machine 10) with signal routes are thorough actualized. Plate
Remote control operation of the volume operation with the change and electromotive volume of input to become possible, at that time pre- main un
As プ it became unusual remote control equipment. Even at the time of analog input in the baseplate arranging the terminals in shortest distance, the signal
The reduction of route was assured. In addition, it corresponded to also MC cartridge, built in MC head amplifier.

Like above, AX - as for Z911, Victor which it tries probably to utilize the merit of DAC built-in positively as a digital corresponding amplifier
It was the enthusiastic work. Victor it seems, it had the sound of the smooth feeling brightly. And next year, AX - to Z921 モデ
ルチェンジ it was done, this unique design was taken over, being to be strengthened, did.
 
 

Below, portion of the catalog of that time is introduced.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Worldwide beginning and signal prediction circuit
Digital pure A loading.
Pure A class 120W + 120W
You can experience
Digital BASIC amplifier
"エスパノーツ" appearance.
It manages digital,
It was thorough pure & simple idea
Digital amplifier of new generation,
It calls エスパノーツ.
Simply the DA converter
It built in just is not.
Freely used digital the signal prediction circuit which
You bear, pure A class 120W + 120W
Like silk smooth sound,
It had the energy of the not yet experience.

* Quality of the digital source is pulled out to full
Digital BASIC amplifier.
* Ideal of amplifier, pure A class operation.
* Digital signal prediction circuit "digital pure A"
It actualized, large output of pure A class 120W + 120W.
* 4 time over sampling digital filter
D of adoption/A converter.
* The D/A separated construction which removes internal interference.
* It is short with distance of optical digital input + signal route
Pursuing pure transmission.
* Operativity and the treble quality which are superior are actualized
Pre- main first remote control equipment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 
Victor AX - Z921
DIGITAL BASIC INTEGRATED AMPLIFIER
XXYEN 99 and 800
The pre- main amplifier where Victor sells in 1988. AX which is sold in the preceding year - it strengthened Z911 substantially, was complete
It was the D/A converter built-in type amplifier which has contents. Especially, the D/A converter section focusing on strengthening is assured,
It increased.

As for the largest modification point, input section clogging to immediately before the D of the digital data which is sent from outside/A converter
It was in loading the "K2 interface".At the time of waveform transmission of the digital signal, jitter (the differential time strain) and
Ripple (the waveform distortion) and the like it is made big problem that disturbance noise is added to the ripple mark. "K2 inter-
The face "converting waveform transmission to mark transmission, raises the purity of the signal ripple mark by the fact that it removes just the mark outside component
It was technology. Concretely, detecting just the mark information of the digital input signal with the high-speed switching of the semiconductor,
It creates by doing, the new digital ripple mark on the basis of mark information, in regard to another block, influence of jitter and the like
Without receiving, it was the technology that it is possible to maintain the precision of conversion output high. Because of that, PLL circuit two loading
While to do, the 1stPLL circuit, following to the fluctuation of the input digital signal quickly, timing is caught, the clock data
Sending, furthermore the 2ndPLL circuit, to make the synchronization signal which is stabilized on the basis of this data, as a master clock departure
It had become the mechanism which swing is done. Adjusting to this master clock, to be formed once more, "K2 インターフェー
The ス "empty as for the digital data which is output, the question which becomes the pure signal ripple mark where disturbance noise is excluded as a result
They were う ones.

Also the D/A converter AX - is largely strengthened from those of 16 bit 4 time over sampling type of Z911,
It increased. To adopt those of 8 time over sampling to the digital filter, in the D/A converter, subordinate position
The bit was separated, the superior bit and electric current 18 bits L which are added R independent combination 4DAC was loaded.

"Digital pure A" is taken over as type �U the digital signal which is input enters into the D/A converter, direct
Before, predicting the size of the signal instantaneously, besides the fact that idling electric current it was designed in such a way that it is set to optimum level
Vis-a-vis the analog input signal, way relationship of output current between operating current becomes always optimum, in the optical bias circuit system
It was designed in such a way that it is managed. Also output was raised 130W + 130W (1kHz 6 Ω).
Also the power source section is strengthened, corresponding to the output of 130W, the balance coil, is low core size of impedance structure クラ
It had become ス largest ones. As for this power transformer, in order to hold down the influence with the vibration, in periodic damping quality superior
The れ it is it was mounted in the high rigid plate of dimple structure.

With DAC direct switch ON, signal route only 0. 5m, reduction thin signal route of contact point several 1 is thorough
While taking over pulling conversion, speaker output to become 2 systems of independent 2 relay system, corresponding to also the bi- wiring
It was.

Like above, AX - as for Z921, AX - as the 2nd generation model where improvement is administered to the section on the basis of Z911, this and
Victor it seems, it had smooth sound brightly, it was the capability machine whose cost performance is high.
 
 

Below, portion of the catalog of that time is introduced.
 

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You yearn purely.
The sound which does not become dirty is led
We want pure power.
* It reappears to the space and the air impression, K2 interface.
* Resolving power of the level may disappear, was raised,
8fs & full-time 18 bits DAC.
* Takaide power of A class 130W + 130W is borne
Digital pure A type �U.
* Class maximum. The balance coil, it is low impedance structure
Large-sized trance.
* Effective D/in the A separation design, removing internal interference.
* With shortest distance of optical digital input and signal route
Pursuing pure transmission.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Main specification -

- Overall characteristic -
(CD, LINE1, LINE2 and LINE3 (only Z921), DAT1/TAPE1, DAT2/TAPE2)
 AX - Z911 AX - Z921
Rated output 120W + 120W
(6 Ω, 1kHz and distortion factor 0.0007%)
110W + 110W
(6 Ω, 20 - 20, 000Hz and distortion factor 0.0035%) 130W + 130W
(6 Ω, 20 - 20, 000Hz and distortion factor 0.005%)
110W + 110W
(8 Ω, 20 - 20, 000Hz and distortion factor 0.004%)
Total height harmonic wave distortion factor 0.0035% (8 Ω, 20 - 20, at the time of 000Hz and rated output) 0.004% (8 Ω, 20 - 20, at the time of 000Hz and rated output)
Output bandwidth 7 - 60, 000Hz (8 Ω, both ch operation and distortion factor 0.02%) 5 - 100, 000Hz (8 Ω, both ch operation and distortion factor 0.1%)
Frequency characteristic DC - 200, 000Hz (+ 0 dB, - 3 dB) 5 - 100, 000Hz (+ 1 dB, - 3 dB)
Damping factor 200 (1kHz, 8 &#937;) <-
Input sensitivity/impedance
(1kHz)  400mV/30k &#937; 300mV/30k &#937;
Signal-noise ratio 86 dB (EIAJ), 112 dB (IHF short circuit) 83 dB (EIAJ), 113 dB (IHF short circuit)
Bus control 0 - + 5 dB
(50Hz and MASTER LEVEL - 30 dB) <-
&#12501;&#12457;&#12494; RIAA deviation ± 0.2 dB (20 - 20, 000Hz, MM and MC) <-


- D/A converter -




Corresponding sampling frequency 32KHz, 44. 1kHz and 48kHz (automatic operation change) <-
Total height harmonic wave distortion factor 0.0035% (1kHz and EIAJ) <-
Signal-noise ratio 102 dB (EIAJ) 107 dB (EIAJ)
Dynamic range 97 dB (EIAJ) 98 dB (EIAJ)
Input DIGITAL1 (optical) - 23 - - 14 dB m
DIGITAL2 (&#12467;&#12450;&#12461;&#12471;&#12515;&#12523;) 0. 5V p-p/75 &#937;
DAT PLAY (&#12467;&#12450;&#12461;&#12471;&#12515;&#12523;) 0. 5V p-p/75 &#937; <-
Output DAT REC (&#12467;&#12450;&#12461;&#12471;&#12515;&#12523;) 0. 5V p-p/75 &#937;  

- Power source in addition -




Power supply voltage AC100V (50, 60Hz common use) <-
Electric power consumption 200W (electric supplies control method standard) 225W (electric supplies control method standard)
Power source electrical outlet Power switch non-linkage 1 (maximum 200W) Power switch non-linkage 2 (maximum 200W)
Maximum external size 435W × 166H × 442D mm 435W × 173H × 459D mm
Weight 19. 0kg 18 0kg
Accessory Remote control transmitter (RA - SA911) 1 Remote control transmitter (RA - SA921) 1

* AX which is published to this page - Z911 and AX - as for the photograph and the specification chart etc. of Z921 1987 December,
Being something which is excerpted from the catalog of 1988 November Victor, at the Nippon Victor corporation
There is a copyright. Therefore, these photographs and the like with no permission reprinting quotation and the like as for doing
Being to be prohibited with law, please note.
 

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #27 on: Aug 23, 2003 at 05:25 PM »
john5479, thanks for the japoks english translation.. hehe  ;D

its hard to decipher the babelfish translation but it seems to have these neat features:
- virtual class A operation at high 120wpc thru signal prediction
- short 0.5m signal path from digital signal to speakers
- digital & analog circuits are completely isolated from each other

if i understand it correctly, it simulates class A mode at 120wpc by predicting the signal at the D/A converter and then switching to class A (???) when needed.  anyway, the japanese just dig high-tech stuff thats why their marketing materials always contain technical info.

Offline john5479

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #28 on: Aug 23, 2003 at 11:41 PM »
How does this amp work ?

to put it simply...you connect your cd via digital out (optical) to the digital in of the amp (optical) and then it converts the signal to analog then gets amplified  ;) I doubt the class A thing though, but still wonder how these amps perform.

Offline akyatbundok

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Re:Surplus amps
« Reply #29 on: Aug 25, 2003 at 01:20 PM »
onga sir, sabi sa literature "pure class A" at 120wpc. that sounds too good to be true.  i guess in a way they're like the speaker cable companies using technical jargon for marketing.  di ba jofkevski?  ;) nga pala bro, how about a review of ur A10 amp, that one is also a keeper.

to be safe, i would just think of the victor ax-z911 as simply an amp w/ a built-in DAC.  my friend was planning to use his pioneer 535 dvd player for music playback thats why i became interested in this amp.  he bought that player from me.  i remember when i first heard the older 525 play music cd's -- i regretted selling my cd player.  so before he kicks my butt i would tip him on getting an amp w/ DAC.  ;D ;D ;D