Author Topic: PBA Season 38  (Read 109396 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline mattia

  • Trade Count: (+165)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #60 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 01:41 PM »
probably because most of the time its all brawn and not brain, mas madali nalalaspag ang mga baguhang player  dahil di pa maingat sa mga galaw nila,some 10 years ago, parang bihirang bihira yata ang nagka ACL.

in previous post, i bravely said di sisikat si abueva sa pba, well im eating my words obviously, but not to mean harm, pag di sya mag iingat at mag pace ng sarili ng tama, baka ang tamang prediction is baka di sya mag tagal, yung mga tulad nya eh very prone to injury

I've seen Abueva play in the NCAA. I hated him a lot, being a Red Lion.  But I said as a basketball fan, this guy is exactly what the PBA needs.  He carries with him the old "gladiator" persona of the PBA of old -- the days of Jawo, Ginebra, Tanduay.  The days when we thoroughly enjoyed the PBA.  In the NCAA, you will definitely hate Abueva if you're from the opposing school.  He mocks you with his game.  And he loves playing against a hostile crowd.  But you will love him if he plays for your team.  Parang Jaworski.  Rarely does a player have this persona.  And I think the PBA realizes this that's why notice how they tremendously hype the Beast.  Just tune in to an Alaska game and all you hear is "Abueva this, Abueva that.  Beast here and Beast there..."

As for injury, I think Abueva is a smart player.  He can leap but he doesn't do kamikaze moves.  Hindi naman sya mataas tumalon talaga magaling lang pumuwesto.  At napakagulang!!  If he has one achilles heel, it's his propensity to play dirty.  But in the PBA, I guess he has tempered a lot which is good actually.  But mind you, Abueva IS a dirty player.  Go ask San Beda players like Sudan, Pascual, Hermida. Ilang siko, suntok at sipa sa $%#$ ang inabot nila kay the Beast >:D

Offline Onkyo606

  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,965
  • It's SVS or Nothing
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #61 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 01:48 PM »
^ how about Louie Alas?
SVS PB13 Ultra and SB13 PLus

Offline mattia

  • Trade Count: (+165)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #62 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 02:17 PM »
^ how about Louie Alas?

Louie Alas the coach of Letran?  What about him?  He's the assistant coach of Alaska now together with San Sebastian Coach Topex Robinson mainly to TAME THE BEAST.  And both are doing well.

Or are you referring to Alas' son Kevin?

Offline boredfilmmaker

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,019
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #63 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 02:21 PM »
kasi sila ang todo bigay kung maglaro. wala pang masyadong gulang kaya napupwersa. yung mga beterano di na gigil na gigil maglaro.

I don't think that's it.. I think it's more of their conditioning.. if you look at the veteran stars now, those who've played for over 10 years, they've already made a name for themselves before they succumbed to a major injury.. Ildefonso and Seigle already won multiple individual awards and championships before they got injured.. same with Mark Caguioa and Helterbrand.. and these guys played all-out during their rookie days..

the last 3 ROY winners have had major surgery already before even finishing their 2nd year.. Paul Lee was becoming the face of RoS but now, when you talk about RoS, you think Jeff Chan.. Maierhofer was going to be one of the main frontline guys for then B-Meg but he got injured and lost his spot.. same with Al-Hussaini.. the PBA these days isn't even that physical and yet young guys are dropping like flies..

Offline boredfilmmaker

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,019
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #64 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 02:27 PM »
Abueva looks really good because he has great teammates.. he doesn't turn the ball over too much because he has good PGs orchestrating for him.. he doesn't go one-on-one too much because he has slashers around him.. he's also surrounded by shooters kaya hindi niya pinipilit mga tira niya.. with that kind of team around him, he can just do what he's really good at--- hustle. if he played for Air21, Global or Barako, you would have seen the same guy from the NCAA.. still great but totally out of control..
« Last Edit: Nov 05, 2012 at 02:28 PM by boredfilmmaker »

Offline newwaveboy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 357
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #65 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 03:48 PM »
I don't think that's it.. I think it's more of their conditioning.. if you look at the veteran stars now, those who've played for over 10 years, they've already made a name for themselves before they succumbed to a major injury.. Ildefonso and Seigle already won multiple individual awards and championships before they got injured.. same with Mark Caguioa and Helterbrand.. and these guys played all-out during their rookie days..

the last 3 ROY winners have had major surgery already before even finishing their 2nd year.. Paul Lee was becoming the face of RoS but now, when you talk about RoS, you think Jeff Chan.. Maierhofer was going to be one of the main frontline guys for then B-Meg but he got injured and lost his spot.. same with Al-Hussaini.. the PBA these days isn't even that physical and yet young guys are dropping like flies..

I think it's a combination of a few things ..... bad luck, the physical nature of today's PBA (it wasn't so just a few years ago) plus the propensity of younger players to play hyper - except for Al-Hussaini, the guy is a lazy-boy.  O0

One more thing I can think of ..... the lack of a full-calendar amateur league (PBL) might have something to do with the injuries to the younger set.

The PBL was a close approximation of the PBA, since they have a full calendar ...... plus the the league had no restrictions on players - meaning everyone from newbies to old veterans play.

The PBA D-League pales in comparison to the PBL ...... only players below 27 can play, which guarantees no grizzled vets to simulate the PBA's atmosphere. 

Plus, there are no draft rules here - which results in a parity gap greater than the PBA (NLEX rules, even if it fields only it's starting five).

« Last Edit: Nov 05, 2012 at 03:54 PM by newwaveboy »

Offline Onkyo606

  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,965
  • It's SVS or Nothing
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #66 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 04:46 PM »
Louie Alas the coach of Letran?  What about him?  He's the assistant coach of Alaska now together with San Sebastian Coach Topex Robinson mainly to TAME THE BEAST.  And both are doing well.

Or are you referring to Alas' son Kevin?

i mean can louie alas be an option to coach ginebra?
SVS PB13 Ultra and SB13 PLus

Offline hotrod

  • Trade Count: (+3)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 207
  • Yippie-kay-yay!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #67 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 05:09 PM »
Mike Cortez to Air 21 looms as 3-team trade with Ginebra, Petron in the works

http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/mike-cortez-to-air-21-looms-as-3-team-trade-with-ginebra-petron-in-the-works

Cortez to Air 21, Denok to Ginebra, Taha or Sena to Petron? Guard pa ren sa ginebra? hehe

Offline rukawakaide1721

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 686
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #68 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 05:26 PM »
as per alvares....

“Kailangan ng guard ng Ginebra while yung Petron naman, malaki ang kailangan nila dahil injured si (June Mar) Fajardo and (Danny) Ildefonso,” said Alvarez.

so why Ginebra will send Mike Cortez? ei guard na naman si MC.... ;D ;D ;D
Happiness is a choice....

Offline brainwashed

  • Trade Count: (+25)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 876
  • Brainwashed by our teachers and all their rules!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #69 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 07:42 PM »
as per alvares....

“Kailangan ng guard ng Ginebra while yung Petron naman, malaki ang kailangan nila dahil injured si (June Mar) Fajardo and (Danny) Ildefonso,” said Alvarez.

so why Ginebra will send Mike Cortez? ei guard na naman si MC.... ;D ;D ;D

kung direct trade na Cortez for Taha or Sena magkakaroon ng isang pang malaki ang Ginebra e hindi naman na nila kailangan ng malaki. hindi naman nila pwedeng i-trade sa Petron ng diretsahan si Taha or Sena kasi sister teams sila. e kailangan ng Petron ng malaki kasi injured nga si Fajardo at si Ildefonso. So si Taha or Sena ay itetrade kay Miranda tapos si Miranda ay itetrade kay Cortez. Baka...

Offline rukawakaide1721

  • Trade Count: (+2)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 686
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #70 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 07:52 PM »
kung direct trade na Cortez for Taha or Sena magkakaroon ng isang pang malaki ang Ginebra e hindi naman na nila kailangan ng malaki. hindi naman nila pwedeng i-trade sa Petron ng diretsahan si Taha or Sena kasi sister teams sila. e kailangan ng Petron ng malaki kasi injured nga si Fajardo at si Ildefonso. So si Taha or Sena ay itetrade kay Miranda tapos si Miranda ay itetrade kay Cortez. Baka...

the point is guard parin makukuha ng ginebra....at yung sinasabi ni alvarez na kailangan ng Ginebra ng guard ei parang hindi akma....buti sana kung ang ililipat ng Ginebra ay si Mamaril, Mairhofer or kung sino man na bigman nila....maaring may sense ang sinabi niyang kailangan ng Barangay ng Guard...

I am a Ginebra fan at basketball player (kanto kanto hahaha) at coach din (kanto kanto din hahaha) ang kailangan ng Barangay ay Coach at Coaching staff na kayang mag motivate ng players....sabi nga nila sa taas kumpletos rekados ang line-up sobra pa nga ei...proper man rotation ang kailangan gawin ng Coach ay siguradong makakapanalo sila...

Happiness is a choice....

Offline brainwashed

  • Trade Count: (+25)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 876
  • Brainwashed by our teachers and all their rules!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #71 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 08:00 PM »
the point is guard parin makukuha ng ginebra....at yung sinasabi ni alvarez na kailangan ng Ginebra ng guard ei parang hindi akma....buti sana kung ang ililipat ng Ginebra ay si Mamaril, Mairhofer or kung sino man na bigman nila....maaring may sense ang sinabi niyang kailangan ng Barangay ng Guard...

I am a Ginebra fan at basketball player (kanto kanto hahaha) at coach din (kanto kanto din hahaha) ang kailangan ng Barangay ay Coach at Coaching staff na kayang mag motivate ng players....sabi nga nila sa taas kumpletos rekados ang line-up sobra pa nga ei...proper man rotation ang kailangan gawin ng Coach ay siguradong makakapanalo sila...



Syempre palusot na lang yun para ma-justify yung inclusion ng Petron sa trade. Pwede namang direct trade for  Cortez kung gusto nila talagang makuha si Cortez.

Dapat na sila talagang magpalit ng coach. Yung hindi matatakot na mambangko ng player kung di maganda ang laro.

Offline mattia

  • Trade Count: (+165)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #72 on: Nov 05, 2012 at 10:05 PM »
i mean can louie alas be an option to coach ginebra?

Oh sorry I thought it was still with the Abueva thread.  Anyway, Louie is a good and scientific coach.  He can be an option but will Alaska let him? 

Offline boredfilmmaker

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,019
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #73 on: Nov 06, 2012 at 08:02 PM »
Cortez to Air21, Taha to Ginebra

Good trade for Ginebra.. Taha's a promising big man.. masipag at matapang.. raw but definitely lots of potential.. if Ginebra gets the 1st pick next year, they'll have a formidable young frontline of Maierhofer, Taha and Slaughter.. this trade is going to be good for Cortez as well.. he's not getting that much minutes in Ginebra anyway..
« Last Edit: Nov 06, 2012 at 08:06 PM by boredfilmmaker »

Offline steelcrazy

  • Trade Count: (+112)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,255
  • I'm the Love Guru.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #74 on: Nov 06, 2012 at 09:48 PM »
i mean can louie alas be an option to coach ginebra?

i predict it's gona be Alfrancis Chua taking over Ginebra as head coach in the very near future.
Gee yoU aRe yoU!

Offline Onkyo606

  • Trade Count: (+44)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,965
  • It's SVS or Nothing
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #75 on: Nov 06, 2012 at 09:59 PM »
i predict it's gona be Alfrancis Chua taking over Ginebra as head coach in the very near future.

mas maganda siguro sir maiba naman, nakakasawa ng makita sa bench si tanquincen or si uichico, nagpalit palit ng coach pero sila sila din naman, ok si chua para may katapat na ulit si guiao sa init ng ulo
SVS PB13 Ultra and SB13 PLus

Offline steelcrazy

  • Trade Count: (+112)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,255
  • I'm the Love Guru.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #76 on: Nov 06, 2012 at 10:02 PM »
mas maganda siguro sir maiba naman, nakakasawa ng makita sa bench si tanquincen or si uichico, nagpalit palit ng coach pero sila sila din naman, ok si chua para may katapat na ulit si guiao sa init ng ulo


Run and gun ang style ni Coach Al and that will benefit Ginebra's depth in the guard position.
Gee yoU aRe yoU!

Offline ♡ lvcdg23™ ✌

  • Trade Count: (+120)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,048
  • Provides ALL your BASS needs...NOTHING comes close
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 119
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #77 on: Nov 06, 2012 at 11:32 PM »
Natawa ako dito sa article na to...
But during their time eto ang matibay na line up ng Ginebra  :D

http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/photo-meme-five-game-losing-streak-maybe-its-time-for-ginebra-to-call-for-backup

Offline -sniper-

  • Trade Count: (+50)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,006
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #78 on: Nov 07, 2012 at 09:25 AM »
http://www.interaksyon.com/interaktv/mike-cortez-to-air-21-yousef-taha-to-ginebra-trade-sealed

i feel bad that cortez is going out. however, i agree with sir boredfilmmaker that this trade will be good for cortez. he will get the playing time he deserves.

i don't know who Taha is. can anybody feed me on him? initial reactions in acquiring him are good.
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

Offline newwaveboy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 357
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #79 on: Nov 07, 2012 at 10:50 AM »
Taha is 6-8 tall, good mobility & has decent hands ...... surprisingly, has shown passion during his first few PBA games (IMO the guy was laidback during his lone stint with MAPUA).

However, Taha is extremely raw ...... has limited offensive skills and can be rattled easily when in the paint.

The BGK crowd should be extremely patient with Taha ...... he's a prospect, who might turn out the be a good rotation player or a complete dud (e.g. Mike Holper).

=====================================================================

Good for Mike Cortez that he finally get's to play good minutes with his old coach.

Franz Pumaren is desperate these days ...... he needs to start winning and getting his old lead PG might be a good start.


N.B. Just have to say this ...... funny that AIR21 traded for Mike Cortez, when they already had him before.

Back in 2010, AIR21 traded Cabagnot to SMB for Cortez ...... 3 months later, AIR21 trades Cortez to BGK for Mamaril ....... another 3 months later, AIR21 trades Mamaril back to BGK for a draft pick.

Bert "Pimp Daddy" Lina & Lito "The Trade B*tch" Alvarez at their best.
  O0

Offline -sniper-

  • Trade Count: (+50)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,006
  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uwOL4rB-go
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #80 on: Nov 07, 2012 at 11:08 AM »
thanks, sir.

i guess BGSM wanted a young gun for a center. or maybe other teams are not willing to let go of their bigs. this is a gamble -- letting go of a veteran in exchange for a rookie. they really need a big man, anyway, and there still is an abundance of players in their guard spot. i just hope that Taha does not turn out to be a lemon. otherwise, sayang ang pagbitaw nila kay Cortez.
sa nakinabang at humakot sa ht at audio set-up ko na ipinundar ko MAG-ISA, may balik yan......

Offline newwaveboy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 357
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #81 on: Nov 07, 2012 at 12:05 PM »
thanks, sir.

i guess BGSM wanted a young gun for a center. or maybe other teams are not willing to let go of their bigs. this is a gamble -- letting go of a veteran in exchange for a rookie. they really need a big man, anyway, and there still is an abundance of players in their guard spot. i just hope that Taha does not turn out to be a lemon. otherwise, sayang ang pagbitaw nila kay Cortez.

Well at least Taha has decent hands, which is very essential for bigs ..... if Taha gets his head straight and plays to his strengths e.g. crashing the boards, putbacks, etc, he should be fine.

Like I said, the big thing that should worry BGK fans .... Taha has very limited offensive skills. He is very raw in most aspects of the game.

The BGK crowd should be very patient with him ..... he's far from being a bluechip rookie.


Offline mattia

  • Trade Count: (+165)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,421
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #82 on: Nov 07, 2012 at 05:25 PM »
It's Alaska vs ROS now playing. 

The Beast vs. "Extra Rice" Belga!! >:D

Offline steelcrazy

  • Trade Count: (+112)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,255
  • I'm the Love Guru.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #83 on: Nov 07, 2012 at 09:15 PM »
Despite all the players movements, SMC teams suck!
Much better we just cheer for Alaska with Abueva and Casio instead.
Alaska vs TNT nlng agad sa Finals.
Gee yoU aRe yoU!

Offline siriusblack

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 524
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #84 on: Nov 08, 2012 at 07:25 AM »
Despite all the players movements, SMC teams suck!
Much better we just cheer for Alaska with Abueva and Casio instead.
Alaska vs TNT nlng agad sa Finals.

not all SMC teams... SanMig seems to be doing okay... parang sila ang favorite child ngayon ng SMC. Excellent frontline, great backcourt.
Lord, help me prove that winning the lottery won't spoil me !!

Offline newwaveboy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 357
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #85 on: Nov 08, 2012 at 07:49 AM »
not all SMC teams... SanMig seems to be doing okay... parang sila ang favorite child ngayon ng SMC. Excellent frontline, great backcourt.

Yup, San Mig Coffee has been doing great.

San Mig Coffee is loaded ..... just as BGK and PETRON are loaded.

The one big difference is Tim Cone.

Siot seems to have worn out his welcome in BGK ..... while PETRON's Racela is too raw for a PBA head-coaching gig - but hey, talent almost always win in the PBA.

Offline steelcrazy

  • Trade Count: (+112)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,255
  • I'm the Love Guru.
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #86 on: Nov 09, 2012 at 09:11 AM »
Yup, San Mig Coffee has been doing great.

San Mig Coffee is loaded ..... just as BGK and PETRON are loaded.

The one big difference is Tim Cone.

Siot seems to have worn out his welcome in BGK ..... while PETRON's Racela is too raw for a PBA head-coaching gig - but hey, talent almost always win in the PBA.


Perhaps Tim Cone has the final with regards to the composition of his line up unlike at Petron and Ginebra where the coaches are just like puppets at sunud sunuran lng sa management.
Gee yoU aRe yoU!

Offline newwaveboy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 357
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #87 on: Nov 09, 2012 at 09:57 AM »
Perhaps Tim Cone has the final with regards to the composition of his line up unlike at Petron and Ginebra where the coaches are just like puppets at sunud sunuran lng sa management.

IMO all 3 of the SMC head coaches enjoy the luxury of a loaded lineup (illegally paid though IMO) and the leeway to have a draft & free-agent wishlist.

However, I do agree that Tanquincen & Racela/Agustin kowtow's to SMC management & the pressures from their fandom ...... resulting in the high mortality rate of players, screwed-up rotations, poor draft choices, imbalanced lineups, poor chemistry, etc.

Tim Cone's abilities and accomplishments are legendary ...... no one will dare bypass him on how to run his team.

Example ..... for the past conferences, Rajko Toroman was responsible for selecting imports for both PETRON & BGK - poor finishes for both teams, including the disastrous Jackson Vroman.

Tim Cone meanwhile selects imports for BMEG ..... he chose Denzel Bowles & Marcus Blakely - got himself a championship & a runner-up finish.


Offline boredfilmmaker

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,019
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #88 on: Nov 09, 2012 at 07:37 PM »
watching Mike Cortez earlier playing for Franz Pumaren felt like it was UAAP all over again.. 24pts, 6rebs, 6asts, 5stls for the Cool Cat.. he scored 5 straight to lead Air21 to the win, 86-85.. on another news, Rico Villanueva looked like he injured his knee.. and it looked bad.. just when he was getting his confidence back.. hope it's nothing serious..

Offline newwaveboy

  • Trade Count: (+18)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,680
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 357
Re: PBA Season 38
« Reply #89 on: Nov 09, 2012 at 08:31 PM »
Enrico's latest injury does look serious ..... the way his knee buckled; it didn't look good.

I've seen much "softer" landings on other recent injuries - and they all turned out to be ACL's & MCL's.

A pity, since Enrico has resurrected his career somewhat this season ..... hope that Enrico avoids the recent ACL/MCL bug.