Author Topic: DVD Audio/SACD  (Read 15444 times)

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Offline levi

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #60 on: May 12, 2005 at 02:23 AM »
I was informed that there might be a craze... a sale of DVDA, XRCD, SACD and some audiophile CD's for a real bargain price. Watch out for it!  Lets hope this pushes through!

Offline odyopayl

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2005 at 05:02 PM »
Insert Quote
I was informed that there might be a craze... a sale of DVDA, XRCD, SACD and some audiophile CD's for a real bargain price. Watch out for it!  Lets hope this pushes through!

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Sir Levi can you post where & When? MAybe PM me hehehe! Thanks for the info!
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Offline Jairus

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #62 on: Jun 01, 2005 at 02:54 PM »
I'm using a Sony DVP NS915 which can play DVD-R/RW, SACD.  I've several SACD titles but haven't tried DVD-A.  I'm not sure if this can play DVD-A though ???
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Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #63 on: Jun 01, 2005 at 02:58 PM »
I've well considered this model in the past to complement my DVD player that can play DVD-A, but not SACD.  It's not a universal player.  It can play SACD but not DVD-A.
« Last Edit: Jun 01, 2005 at 03:00 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline JT

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #64 on: Jun 01, 2005 at 03:28 PM »
I'm using a Sony DVP NS915 which can play DVD-R/RW, SACD.  I've several SACD titles but haven't tried DVD-A.  I'm not sure if this can play DVD-A though ???

You'll be able to play only the dolby digital audio track of the DVD-A.

Offline MAtZTER

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #65 on: Aug 24, 2005 at 11:50 AM »
I'm using a Sony DVP NS915 which can play DVD-R/RW, SACD.  I've several SACD titles but haven't tried DVD-A.  I'm not sure if this can play DVD-A though ???

I just read last night from a HT mag that Sony & Philips developed SACD. So their products dont support the competing DVDa format. I was wondering about this when I was looking at both these brand's SACD/DVDa capabilities.

Question guys, is SACD/DVDa better than going into tubes? I have begun to like audio listening lately so I am contemplating on a better audio setup. This week, I was thinking of having a dedicated CDP for better sound but thought "Why not just go into DVDa/SACD? Maybe the sound is better (?) "

TIA
« Last Edit: Aug 24, 2005 at 11:53 AM by MAtZTER »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #66 on: Aug 24, 2005 at 02:38 PM »
Technically speaking both SACD and DVD-A formats are superior to any redbook CD.

BUT....

Home playback is so much a slave to how good the recorded information was made.    It all boils down to how good the recording engineer did his job at capturing the performance then optimizing it for his medium of choice.  Regardless of the media - whether LP, CD, SACD or DVD-A.

At about the time CD made its debut, LP recordings had reached its summit in terms of maximizing the potential of the medium, however flawed and susceptible to all the vagaries of analog encryption.  Recording eingeers have long mastered the analog process for decades so that audiophile LP pressings made excellent sonic playback, with some still having no equal up to now.  Some of the best analog recordings at the time were rarely duplicated in digital format.

It took another 5 years for recording engineers to maximize the potential of redbook CD.  Many of the earlest CDs sounded aweful because their remastering engineers didn't know any better than to literally transcribe 70 microsecond equalized LP masters directly into CD.  The result was shrill and bass-anemic CD titles - precisely how the LP sounded without the de-equalization done by phono preamps.  Over-eager with the clinical cleanliness of the CD sound, engineers tried unsuccessfully to remaster old recordings with tape hiss by filtering out the hiss, in the process taking out the high frequency harmonics that made LP records more airy precisely because of these.  The result - clean recordings without much realism or life.  But they learned that the potential of the CD lies not in transcrbing old masters that already sounded excellent in LPs(though the later efforts proved quite successful especially in the new 24 bit remastering), but in capturing the performance digitally to begin with.   These days, some of the finest recordings are there on CDs because the reoording engineers have learned over the years how to optimize the CD master.

And at about the same time the CD is reaching its maturity, we now get a new format called DVD-A and SACD which are technically superior in terms of resolving power.  But there are titles that are no better than their CD titles.  That's because transcribing a 16-bit 44.1khz digital master (often on tape)  into 24-bit 192khz DVD-A will really not improve the sonics by any mathematical stretch.  For the new format to achieve its potential, you have to start with capturing the performance at 24/192.  Not just transcribing previous masters into higher resolution.  Same with SACD.  There is no way a 16-bit master remastered into SACD or DVD-A can sound superior.  (however, remastering from 2-channel to 5.1 channel is another thing.  Done correctly, it may not sound better, but more engaging and more detailed.)

There's another caveat here.  No matter how powerful the resolving power of the recording, if the recording engineer is a nitwit, you still end up with a lousy recording. In whatever format.   ;D

So personally, if you come across a truly excellent recording.  Get it.  If it's on LP. then get the finest turntable you can get.  IF its a CD, then get the best CD player you can get.  If it's a DVD-A or SACD, then get the best universal player or separate you can get.  Lemons exist in all formats.  As well as real gems.  It would be a shame if you missed a great recording on one format because you prefer one over another.  Having said that, I myself have cast my lots on digital.  I have had 5 years of LP prior to my switch to digital.  That's enough.  There are so many titles on CDs that sound great by any standard.  OTH, there are so few titles on DVD-A and SACD that my plans for a really great universal player can wait.  I will certainly miss some of the great recordings on LP.  But that's more a decision based on convenience.  And in the hope that there will be new artists who will record those great classical performances in LP with better digital sonics in the future done by golden eared recording enigneers.

With all the titles in CD, you can never go wrong with a great dedicated CD player.  But with the advances and refinements  in DVD home playback systems that get in every year, the finest universal players for DVD-A and SACD can also sound great playing CDs.  Online reviews talk about some Denon or Yamaha flagship universals that can shame some of  the most expensive CD players like the Theta brand(which is said to be just a Pioneer Cd player rebadged and re-housed actually).  Thanks to technology (and your wallet), you sometimes don't have to choose as you can have the best of all worlds in one neat package.   ;D
« Last Edit: Aug 24, 2005 at 03:10 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline aHobbit

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #67 on: Aug 24, 2005 at 03:28 PM »

So personally, if you come across a truly excellent recording.  Get it.  If it's on LP. then get the finest turntable you can get.  IF its a CD, then get the best CD player you can get.  If it's a DVD-A or SACD, then get the best universal player or separate you can get.  Lemons exist in all formats.  As well as real gems.  It would be a shame if you missed a great recording on one format because you prefer one over another. 


I just thought that in fact this should be the mode of audiophile really serious in listening to contents and reproduction. Some people try to put in a box altogether the LP in one box, the CD in one box, and then label each box as a whole. The loser is the person that did so, failing to capture the possibility of gems in whatever format. Of course, some people, for other reasons rather than sonics, decided just to maintain a single format.
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Offline vision_of_love

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #68 on: Sep 14, 2005 at 03:29 AM »
iba ba yung AUDIO DVD na nagagawa ng Audio DVD Creator(an application)(software) SA dvd-aUDIO?




Offline odyopayl

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #69 on: Sep 14, 2005 at 08:14 AM »
iba ba yung AUDIO DVD na nagagawa ng Audio DVD Creator(an application)(software) SA dvd-aUDIO?


DVD-A software are the result of recording Engineer mixing in terms of multi-channel playback every channel is a discrete recording. DVD-A playback usually plays a resolution of 24/192 in 2 channel playback.

Any software transfering an Audio signal to DVD format in our computer doesn't guarantee better playback. (mine)

« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2005 at 08:15 AM by odyopayl »
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Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #70 on: Sep 14, 2005 at 09:44 AM »
iba ba yung AUDIO DVD na nagagawa ng Audio DVD Creator(an application)(software) SA dvd-aUDIO?





Yup.  Magkaiba.  Ibang-iba.

DVD-Audio cannot be hacked. Yet.  Many audio dvd software out there simply rips the DVD's DD audio files into 2-channel stereo in wav, wma or mp3 formats whichever you set it.  If you check the DVD file directory on a PC, these audio files are in the video-TS directory folder, multiplexed with the video files.  Having a similar software, I think Audio DVD Creator simply creates video files (without the video part) containing multiplxed audio LPCM or DD files in the video_ts folder of a DVD.

There's another folder called the audio_TS folder which is empty in DVD-videos.  That's where the real high resolution MLP-based DVD-Audio files are stored in DVD-Audio discs.  No software can as yet rip these or create them in the audio_TS directory of a DVD medium.  At least none that I know of for now.
« Last Edit: Sep 14, 2005 at 10:18 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline jerix

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #71 on: Sep 15, 2005 at 12:32 PM »
Bro Av_phile1,

Considering your statement may I solicit your insight about the copy of the LES BROWN DVD-A i have with me, courtesy of a friend who is into this hobby of copying original CDs and DVDs.

The display of my player indicate the disc as DVD-AUDIO.  The menu bares different audio options that includes DTS 5.1, DD 5.1 and MLP 5.1. These 3 audio options incredibly work fine in this disk, especially the MLP 5.1. the way i find it, as compared with the DTS and DD, the MLP has better signal separation and to my ears sounds more realistic and crispy. I made several backup copies of the disc but m wondering that the MLP 5.1 does not work.    ::)
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Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #72 on: Sep 15, 2005 at 02:04 PM »
I don't really think you can back-up a DVD-A's MLP files.  That's the same as ripping it.  Perhaps there's a way.  The Audio_TS folder in a DVD-A is just a directory.  It can be copied.  I'm just not sure if the copy will play.  I'll  try copying the Audio-TS folder one of these days and see what happens. 
« Last Edit: Sep 15, 2005 at 02:09 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline jerix

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #73 on: Sep 16, 2005 at 06:40 AM »
Thks for the reply bro -- whatever it is maybe, whether what im hearing is the real MLP or a fake one, that doesnt matter at all because im enjoyin it - this time i agree that innocence is bliss  ;D
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Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #74 on: Sep 17, 2005 at 12:38 PM »
I don't really think you can back-up a DVD-A's MLP files.  That's the same as ripping it.  Perhaps there's a way.  The Audio_TS folder in a DVD-A is just a directory.  It can be copied.  I'm just not sure if the copy will play.  I'll  try copying the Audio-TS folder one of these days and see what happens. 

Tried copying the Audio_TS folder to my hard disk.  Some files can be copied, the AOB files refuse to be copied.   So there.

Offline kt

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #75 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 02:26 PM »
hi guys! can u help me how i can setup my dvd player (pioneer dv686a) & avr (marantz sr4500) for the dvd-a n sacds like connections n settings? tnx  ???

Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #76 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 03:04 PM »
hi guys! can u help me how i can setup my dvd player (pioneer dv686a) & avr (marantz sr4500) for the dvd-a n sacds like connections n settings? tnx  ???

Simply connect the DVD player's multichannel ANALOG 5.1 output to the receiver's multichanel ANALOG input (7.1 in the Marantz 4500 but just leave its 2 back channels empty).   Use three pairs of well constructed RCA cables. 

I think no additional setting is needed on the receiver.  Just select Multichannel from among your sources when playing SACD or DVD-A. 

On the DVD player,  I believe it can automatically detect DVD-A or SACD.  There may be settings in the AUDIO section in the onscreen menu to do this.  Just refer to the manual.


Offline kt

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #77 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 04:17 PM »
sir av tnx! so wud that be 3 pairs of 2ended rcas or the 3ended? wud it matter if i use reg rcas intead of DIY coax like for the SW cable?

Offline bumblebee

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #78 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 04:26 PM »
Not Sir AV...3 "2ended" pro pede rin yata yung "3ended" though this is used more for component video. Coax (pede rin ata) is usually used for digital connections. DVD-A and SACD outputs are analog in nature.

Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #79 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 04:40 PM »
sir av tnx! so wud that be 3 pairs of 2ended rcas or the 3ended? wud it matter if i use reg rcas intead of DIY coax like for the SW cable?

Doesn't matter to me.  2-ended or 3 ended (you mean those for component vedeo).  75-ohm Coax or ordinary RCA, provided they're well constructed and terminated.  75-ohm coax cables will work fine in audio.
« Last Edit: Sep 21, 2005 at 05:03 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline kt

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #80 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 05:37 PM »
bro bee n sir av tnx agn!

i meant yung reg rca cables with the 3colors po not the compo cables... basta i wud need 6 ends all in all ryt?

sir av yup wud there be a big difference if i use just reg rca VS the 75Ohm coax?

Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #81 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 05:46 PM »
bro bee n sir av tnx agn!

i meant yung reg rca cables with the 3colors po not the compo cables... basta i wud need 6 ends all in all ryt?

sir av yup wud there be a big difference if i use just reg rca VS the 75Ohm coax?

Technically, sonically, none. 

Offline kt

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #82 on: Sep 21, 2005 at 05:53 PM »
sir av tnx! ayan mas makakatipid pa! hehe

btw guys wat po ba difference ng dvd-a sa sacd? from wat i understood the dvd-a also has dts & dd ryt? while the sacd comes in the multichanel n the hybrid wc plays just like a cd format ryt? well...if ur gna choose among the 2 wc is better? tnx  ???

Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #83 on: Sep 22, 2005 at 12:09 PM »
I suggest you google search the terms SACD and DVD-Audio.  There are many interesting sites on the net that can explain the two formats in varying detail.   

Suffice it to say that these two formats are competing to be the de fact standard meant to replace CD.  But it appears more than 5 years down the road, neither is catching on to achieve that objective and could very well co-exists together and with the CD as a high-end option for the small upscale audiophile market. 

SACD comes in two flavours, one hybrid SACD which has a CD layer playable in any CD (plays the CD layer), while the other flavour doesn't and can only be played in a universal or SACD player. 

DVD-Audio discs normally has DD and/or DTS tracks that any DVD player can play.   But it's high resolution MLP tracks that define it as a DVD-Audio require special decoding circuits and require a universal player or a DVD-A player.

As to which is better, technically, it's debatable and sonically, subjective.  Both formats promise the same degree of high fidelity with features that go beyond the redbook CD, often beyond the hearing abilities of ordinary humans.  Bottomline, it still depends on the recording engineer on how well he optimized the recording technologies to max out the promise of the medium.   There are great recordings and lousy ones in any media, LP, CD, Tapes, same with DVD-A and SACD.   IMO, it is not the medium that matters, it's the recording.   

Not all titles are released in SACD or DVD-A.  Right now, there are old titles no longer available in CD but released and remixed for multichannel sound in SACD and DVD-A. T hat's the nice thing about having a universal player, just get the title you want in whatevever format it becomes available.
« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2005 at 12:12 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline kt

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #84 on: Sep 22, 2005 at 01:16 PM »
sir av tnx agn! n yup thats wat i saw there are limited titles to choose from n not to mention most of them are the "classics"...

Offline av_phile1

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #85 on: Sep 22, 2005 at 03:04 PM »
Most SACD titles I've seen are of the classical and jazz genre, especially at Montage.  Some are DSD remixes of old analog and PCM titles but there's a growing list of original DSD recordings.   But the DVD-A of Warner are a mix of classics, fusion jazz, pop, rock and R&B, mostly old analog and PCM titles remixed for multi-channel.  Very few original recordings in the 96/24 resolution. 
« Last Edit: Sep 22, 2005 at 03:06 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline kt

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Re: DVD Audio/SACD
« Reply #86 on: Sep 22, 2005 at 03:29 PM »
tnx sir av! hope they release more titles here soon.. ;D