Author Topic: Non-Catholic  (Read 71341 times)

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Offline rascal101

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #360 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:08 PM »
Maraming salamat sa pagsagot mo Atty.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #361 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:11 PM »
On the pag-aasawa topic:

1 Timoteo 4:1

1Nguni't hayag na sinasabi ng Espiritu, na sa mga huling panahon ang iba'y magsisitalikod sa pananampalataya, at mangakikinig sa mga espiritung mapanghikayat at sa mga aral ng mga demonio,

1 Timoteo 4:3

3Na ipinagbabawal ang pagaasawa, at ipinaguutos na lumayo sa mga lamangkati, na nilalang ng Dios upang tanggapin na may pagpapasalamat ng mga nagsisisampalataya at nangakakaalam ng katotohanan.

« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:11 PM by Quitacet »

Offline jerix

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #362 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:13 PM »
Actually granting that the kaligtasan is exclusive to the INC, I could not fathom the reason why God is allowing the division in the church in this point when the supposed judgment is just a minute away. The battle between the direct descendants of the "sugo"versus the church administrators is actually eroding the credibility of the church.
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Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #363 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:22 PM »
Actually granting that the kaligtasan is exclusive to the INC, I could not fathom the reason why God is allowing the division in the church in this point when the supposed judgment is just a minute away. The battle between the direct descendants of the "sugo"versus the church administrators is actually eroding the credibility of the church.

The Church is founded on doctrines not on men. Men can be corrupted. Doctrines must not change.

Should I judged Jesus' organization when Judas betrayed him? Or when Peter denied him three times in spite of the belief by many (The INC do not believe this) that Peter was the rock upon which Jesus' Church will be built?  No, we follow the Bible not because of what men did with God's words but in spite of what men did.

We can ask a lot of questions whose answers can be difficult to obtain:

1. Why did God and Christ allow John the Baptist to be decapitated and killed?
2. Why did Christ allow many of his believers in the Church to be under apostasy?

Cliche, but "maybe God really works in mysterious ways"

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #364 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:54 PM »
Ever since exclusive ang nations of God. Sa Israel before, sa Christianity later. But exclusivity is not Kami. period.

Even Christ is exclusive in the sense na one should believe Him, so out na ang other religions dyan na nakapakinig ng aral. Exclusivity as reflected in practices of religions of our time is different than exclusivity ng una. pero in various ways, exclusivity pa din, otherwise, what's the point of Christ establishing his Church kung ililigtas din naman pala niya ang Buddhists, Taoists, and pagan believer of their own gods and goddesses. 

Hmmm mukhang hindi tayo nagtugma doon sa exclusivity... Jesus said whosever believeth in Me... Salvation is offered to everyone not just to a single church ... No church or religion can say na kapag di ka kaanib ng aming iglesia di ka maliligtas ... The Bible says Jesus is the way... No man cometh to the Father but by Me... Jesus said. Hindi niya sinabi na ang sinumang hindi kaanib ay di maliligtas.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline barrister

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #365 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:54 PM »
Atty, care to expound? This is a very sensitive topic lalo na sa panahon ngayon. Would do well if we could gain insights about this.  :)

Yes, sensitive topic yan sa panahon ngayon.
 
Iba talaga ang pang-mundo sa pang-bibliya:
 
19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:19)
 
 
==================================
 
 
Dahil mahaba talagang explanation ang kailangan, bibigyan na lang kita ng intro.
 
Si Adan ang unang nilikha.  Ano ang relevance non?
 
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” (Gen. 2:18)

The first human needed a helper.  That's why the second human was created --- to be the helper of the first.

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (1 Tim. 2:11-12)

Therefore the human who was created second was created with the purpose of becoming helper to the first. Not the first as helper to the second.  Yan ang significance ng sinasabing "for Adam was formed first, then Eve."

In the Old Testament covenant, Israel and God were spiritually married, with God as the husband and israel as the wife.

14 “Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. (Jer. 3:14)

Who should be in submission, God or Israel?

In the New Testament, the church is the bride of the Lamb, which is Christ:
 
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” (Rev. 21:9)
 
Who should be in submission, the church or Christ? 

The church should be in submission to the head of the church, which is Christ:
 
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
 
 
==================================
 
 
In summary, the husband is the head of the wife, just as Adam is the head of Eve, just as God was the head of ancient Israel in the Old Testament, just as Christ is the head of the church in the New Testament.
 
Hindi puwedeng pantay lang ang husband and wife, at hindi rin puwedeng pantay lang si Adan kay Eba, ang Diyos at ang Israel, at si Kristo at ang Kristiyano.
 
Ganyang kalalim ang relationship ng husband and wife --- tumatagos hanggang sa Diyos at Israel, hanggang kay Kristo at ang Christian church.
 
At yan na rin ang hindi maarok ng mga pro-Same Sex Marriage.  Akala nila simpleng kasal lang yon ng dalawang tao.
 
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 02:00 PM by barrister »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #366 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 01:59 PM »

Yes, sensitive topic yan sa panahon ngayon.
 
Iba talaga ang pang-mundo sa pang-bibliya:
 
19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:19)
 
 
==================================
 
 
Dahil mahaba talagang explanation ang kailangan, bibigyan na lang kita ng intro.
 
Si Adan ang unang nilikha.  Ano ang relevance non?
 
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” (Gen. 2:18)

The first human needed a helper.  That's why the second human was created --- to be the helper of the first.

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (1 Tim. 2:11-12)

Therefore the human who was created second was created with the purpose of becoming helper to the first. Not the first as helper to the second.

Yan ang significance ng sinasabing "for Adam was formed first, then Eve."

In the Old Testament covenant, Israel and God were spiritually married, with God as the husband and israel as the wife.

14 “Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. (Jer. 3:14)

Who should be in submission, God or Israel?

In the New Testament, the church is the bride of the Lamb, which is Christ:
 
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” (Rev. 21:9)
 
Who should be in submission, the church or Christ? 

The church should be in submission to the head of the church, which is Christ:
 
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
 
 
==================================
 
 
In summary, the husband is the head of the wife, just as Adam is the head of Eve, just as God was the head of ancient Israel in the Old Testament, just as Christ is the head of the church in the New Testament.
 
Hindi puwedeng pantay lang ang husband and wife, at hindi rin puwedeng pantay lang si Adan kay Eba, ang Diyos at ang Israel, at si Kristo at ang Kristiyano.
 
Ganyang kalalim ang relationship ng husband and wife --- tumatagos hanggang sa Diyos at Israel, hanggang kay Kristo at ang Christian church.
 
At yan na rin ang hindi maarok ng mga pro-Same Sex Marriage.  Akala nila simpleng kasal lang yon ng dalawang tao.
 

Super Agree.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline luis

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #367 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 02:42 PM »

Yes, sensitive topic yan sa panahon ngayon.
 
Iba talaga ang pang-mundo sa pang-bibliya:
 
19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. (John 15:19)
 
 
==================================
 
 
Dahil mahaba talagang explanation ang kailangan, bibigyan na lang kita ng intro.
 
Si Adan ang unang nilikha.  Ano ang relevance non?
 
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.” (Gen. 2:18)

The first human needed a helper.  That's why the second human was created --- to be the helper of the first.

11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. (1 Tim. 2:11-12)

Therefore the human who was created second was created with the purpose of becoming helper to the first. Not the first as helper to the second.  Yan ang significance ng sinasabing "for Adam was formed first, then Eve."

In the Old Testament covenant, Israel and God were spiritually married, with God as the husband and israel as the wife.

14 “Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. (Jer. 3:14)

Who should be in submission, God or Israel?

In the New Testament, the church is the bride of the Lamb, which is Christ:
 
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” (Rev. 21:9)
 
Who should be in submission, the church or Christ? 

The church should be in submission to the head of the church, which is Christ:
 
22 Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24 Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
 
 
==================================
 
 
In summary, the husband is the head of the wife, just as Adam is the head of Eve, just as God was the head of ancient Israel in the Old Testament, just as Christ is the head of the church in the New Testament.
 
Hindi puwedeng pantay lang ang husband and wife, at hindi rin puwedeng pantay lang si Adan kay Eba, ang Diyos at ang Israel, at si Kristo at ang Kristiyano.
 
Ganyang kalalim ang relationship ng husband and wife --- tumatagos hanggang sa Diyos at Israel, hanggang kay Kristo at ang Christian church.
 
At yan na rin ang hindi maarok ng mga pro-Same Sex Marriage.  Akala nila simpleng kasal lang yon ng dalawang tao.
 

husay sir!   ;D

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #368 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 02:46 PM »
Hmmm mukhang hindi tayo nagtugma doon sa exclusivity... Jesus said whosever believeth in Me... Salvation is offered to everyone not just to a single church ... No church or religion can say na kapag di ka kaanib ng aming iglesia di ka maliligtas ... The Bible says Jesus is the way... No man cometh to the Father but by Me... Jesus said. Hindi niya sinabi na ang sinumang hindi kaanib ay di maliligtas.

That's why I said exclusivity in various ways. When he founded His Church, he founded an exclusive Church that whosoever believeth in Him should be part of His Church. Hindi kasama dito ang mamabait na pagano

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #369 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 02:55 PM »
That's why I said exclusivity in various ways. When he founded His Church, he founded an exclusive Church that whosoever believeth in Him should be part of His Church. Hindi kasama dito ang mamabait na pagano

The Church compose of people that believed not necesarily a person member of a particular church/sect/religion...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #370 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 03:01 PM »
The Church compose of people that believed not necesarily a person member of a particular church/sect/religion...

Whatever definition you put into it, there will still be exclusivity, meaning if you are not part of that church or in that group of people who believe in "that something", then you are not part of what that group offers.

Example, a Buddhist who hears a preaching of an apostle but did not believe Jesus but he's a good man and he worships his God in his own way in his own belief, will he be saved by Jesus Christ?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #371 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 03:35 PM »
Whatever definition you put into it, there will still be exclusivity, meaning if you are not part of that church or in that group of people who believe in "that something", then you are not part of what that group offers.

Example, a Buddhist who hears a preaching of an apostle but did not believe Jesus but he's a good man and he worships his God in his own way in his own belief, will he be saved by Jesus Christ?

Salvation through Jesus christ is not exclusivity since salvation is offered to everyone...

Iba ang "kapag di ka kaanib di ka maliligtas"  sa "kapag di ka naniwala di ka maliligtas"

Kasi kahit di ka nagpamiyembro basta naniniwala ka maliligtas ka.. Wala sinabi sa Bibliya na "maniwala ka at umanib ka sa aming iglesia"...

For example, based on sir barrister testimony and how he declares his faith on Jesus, i can say that ligtas siya kahit na di siya kaanib ng anumang relihiyon o simbahan.

A person na kaanib ng isang iglesia pero hindi naniniwala o hindsi tunay ang kanyang pananampalataya ay hindi maliligtas.

Salvation is not exclusive in the sense that it is offered to all/everyone.


The budhist may be not save but the salvation was offered to him/her. Kung exclusive ang salvatiom eh di sana nung malaman na budhist hindi na sana inoffered ang salvation.

Last, ang iglesia, ang religion, ang simbahan, ang kapilya, ang grupo ay hindi nakakaligtas... Si Jesus lang ang tanging daan, ang katotohanan at ang buhay.
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline sirhc

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #372 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 03:52 PM »

Yes, sensitive topic yan sa panahon ngayon.

Iba talaga ang pang-mundo sa pang-bibliya:
 

Thanks for the enlightenment atty. The essence of those scriptures is really a good way for husbands and wives to live by.
Never stop learning.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #373 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 03:57 PM »
Whatever definition you put into it, there will still be exclusivity, meaning if you are not part of that church or in that group of people who believe in "that something", then you are not part of what that group offers.

Question: for example sa INC, iyong mga member na natiwalag ng 'sangunian' ligtas ba sila o hindi?
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline sirhc

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #374 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 04:05 PM »
Most if not all sects/religious organizations embrace the exclusivity doctrine, otherwise there's no point in missions or conversion one group does not espouses exclusivity.

As atty barrister pointed out many pages earlier, even the Catholic Church espouses the same exclusivity doctrine, otherwise there will be no point in persecuting the Protestants in history.

Pardon if I'm poorly informed, but isn't the persecution of protestants rooted on their disagreement on certain doctrines? What's the point in raising the persecution of protestants on the discussion of exclusivity and salvation?

Regarding people outside of the Church because of location and or time elements, they of course will be saved according to their conscience for God is Just. They will not be judged according to the writtel letter of the law because technically they did not hear the law or there was nobody to tell the gospel to them (pointed out also by atty earlier in reference to my no law, no sin principle post)

Hmmm. Okay, I get your point above. But still with the exclusivity of the INC, so let's say with in comparison with RC to INC, RC's believe that Jesus is God made flesh, but INC's believe otherwise, but both INC's and RC's lived a full christian life. So that would mean by INC standard that RC's would perish in hell just because RC's believed that Jesus was one with God?

Sorry if I may sound shallow, I'm just starting to be keenly interested on understanding these things.

Never stop learning.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #375 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 04:55 PM »
^ The point I am driving at is there are levels and ways exclusivity is adopted and practice.

1. Exclusivity by having a different set of beliefs. Salvation is offered to everyone in Christianity. By that same standard, exclusivity lies in Christianity and other beliefs are outside of the scope of this salvation.

2. Exclusivity by having a different set of beliefs within Christianity. Say INC, RC, Protestant, etc. As clearly pointed out by atty barrister before, even the RC believes in its exclusivity. Many people might not know it but it's part of their doctrines. Maybe they changed it now, but it doesn't mean RC did not believe in it.

As to the Protestant persecution, that is exactly my point, why would RC persecute the Protestants if they are also Christians who believe in God and Jesus Christ? Isn't the point of inclusivity (if there is such a term) as opposed to exclusivity is that they are all under the same Christian beliefs?

Now if the Protestants are not Christians for having espouse different dogmas compared to RC, then it would mean RC is the only group of people that will be saved because every other sect disagrees with one or more doctrines of RC. And if RC says no, Protestants are Christians too and they are included in the salvation process, then why persecute them? after all the differences in doctrines does not hamper the other's salvation.

The fact remains, there is exclusivity, because you can only cast away exclusivity if there is no condition on inclusivity.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 04:58 PM by Quitacet »

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #376 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 05:29 PM »
Salvation through Jesus christ is not exclusivity since salvation is offered to everyone...

Iba ang "kapag di ka kaanib di ka maliligtas"  sa "kapag di ka naniwala di ka maliligtas"

Kasi kahit di ka nagpamiyembro basta naniniwala ka maliligtas ka.. Wala sinabi sa Bibliya na "maniwala ka at umanib ka sa aming iglesia"...

For example, based on sir barrister testimony and how he declares his faith on Jesus, i can say that ligtas siya kahit na di siya kaanib ng anumang relihiyon o simbahan.

A person na kaanib ng isang iglesia pero hindi naniniwala o hindsi tunay ang kanyang pananampalataya ay hindi maliligtas.

Salvation is not exclusive in the sense that it is offered to all/everyone.


The budhist may be not save but the salvation was offered to him/her. Kung exclusive ang salvatiom eh di sana nung malaman na budhist hindi na sana inoffered ang salvation.

Last, ang iglesia, ang religion, ang simbahan, ang kapilya, ang grupo ay hindi nakakaligtas... Si Jesus lang ang tanging daan, ang katotohanan at ang buhay.

That's why all religious organization has missions: to offer salvation to everyone who'd hear it's doctrines. Salvation is offered to everyone, yes. Lahat pwedeng maligtas. Pero lahat ba ay maliligtas?

in the same way that you say "lahat ng maniwala kay Hesus" ay maliligtas regardless of your religious org, many religious orgs adopt that to a microcosm of their organization by upholding that their org has the right doctrines may they be RC, INC, ADD, etc. and the offering of salvation is done via religious preaching of each's own denomination.

so in that sense the parallelism is:

Christianity lang maliligtas (covered by law of the gospels)- exclusive ito dahil wala nang puwang ang ibang naniniwala sa Dios sa sarili nilang pamamaraan at pananampalataya

say INC lang ang maliligtas (covered by law of the gospels as believed by the organization that Christ build a Church with defined doctrines) - exclusive ito pero nagooffer pa rin kahit sino ka pa basta sumampalataya ka sa aral nito which in turn joining the organization. You can replace INC here with other religious group and the point will still be the same.

The fundamental problem lies not in exclusivity issues but definition of Christ's Church. Is it a defined church with a stricy set of doctrines with specific members, or does it include anybody even if they have different sets of doctrines and different interpretations of the bible, just as long as they can be categorized as Christians.

In both arguments, etsapwera pa din ang nakinig ng aral ng Biblia pero gusto pa ring sumamba sa Dios sa paraan at pananampalatayang gusto nya outside of the Bible.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 05:31 PM by Quitacet »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #377 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 08:18 PM »
@sir Quintacet

I think it would good if you explain and show to others the biblical verses that support the doctrine of INC re exclusivity if you don't mind. Alam ko kasi meron itong verses sa bible specially the far east part.

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #378 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 08:24 PM »
So everybody believes that it is their religion that would be save.  So it means GOD will actually save mankind. I think this is just awesome?  ;D
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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #379 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 08:41 PM »
^ The point I am driving at is there are levels and ways exclusivity is adopted and practice.

1. Exclusivity by having a different set of beliefs. Salvation is offered to everyone in Christianity. By that same standard, exclusivity lies in Christianity and other beliefs are outside of the scope of this salvation.

2. Exclusivity by having a different set of beliefs within Christianity. Say INC, RC, Protestant, etc. As clearly pointed out by atty barrister before, even the RC believes in its exclusivity. Many people might not know it but it's part of their doctrines. Maybe they changed it now, but it doesn't mean RC did not believe in it.

As to the Protestant persecution, that is exactly my point, why would RC persecute the Protestants if they are also Christians who believe in God and Jesus Christ? Isn't the point of inclusivity (if there is such a term) as opposed to exclusivity is that they are all under the same Christian beliefs?

Now if the Protestants are not Christians for having espouse different dogmas compared to RC, then it would mean RC is the only group of people that will be saved because every other sect disagrees with one or more doctrines of RC. And if RC says no, Protestants are Christians too and they are included in the salvation process, then why persecute them? after all the differences in doctrines does not hamper the other's salvation.

The fact remains, there is exclusivity, because you can only cast away exclusivity if there is no condition on inclusivity.

So in your belief... sino lang ba ang maliligtas?
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Offline majoe

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #380 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 08:44 PM »
thanks atty. di naman pala unsual ang sagot :)

ini expect ko na unsual ay kinuha sya ng Diyos na parang kagaya ng alien abductions eh, hehe.

   

 
 
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. (Gen. 5:7)
 
Mahiwaga talaga ang sitas na yan.
 
The common interpretation?  Enoch was taken up to heaven by God.  Hindi ganon ang intindi ko.
 
 
Pinaliwanag sa sitas na ito:
 
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb. 11:5)
 
Maliwanag na?  Hindi.  Malabo pa rin...  ;)
 
 
==================================
 
 
Sabi sa Gen. 5:7, "he was not."  Meaning, nawala si Enoch.  Bakit? God took him.
 
Took him to heaven?  Walang sinasabing took him to heaven.  Basta ang sabi, God took him.
 
Sabi sa Heb. 11:5, he did not see death.  Ibig sabihin he did not die?  No, namatay pa rin siya.
 
Ano ang ebidensiya na namatay din siya?  Dahil nasa Heb. 11:5 yon, ituloy lang natin sa Heb. 11:13:
 
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. (Heb. 11:13)
 
E di namatay din nga silang lahat, kasama si Enoch. 
 
Heb. 11 is called the "faith chapter," kasi puro by faith, by faith, by faith ang umpisa.
 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews+11
 
Ang haba ng listahan, by faith by faith, by faith.  Ang ending, "These all died in faith."  E di namatay nga lahat.
 
Pangalawang ebidensiya:
 
Hindi maaaring nakarating si Enoch sa langit. 
 
Bakit?  Kung nakarating si Enoch sa langit noong Old Testament times, bakit ang sabi ni Kristo noong New Testament times wala pa raw nakakarating sa langit?
 
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (John 3:13)
 
Talagang wala pang nakakarating sa langit, kasi sabay-sabay tayong pupunta sa langit.  Hindi una-una yon.
 
Kaya nga ang sabi sa Heb. 11:
 
39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. (Heb. 11:39-40)

They (kasama si Enoch) received not the promise. God provided something better --- yun na nga ang langit.  That they without us should not be made perfect --- sabay-sabay tayo, hindi puwedeng una si Enoch.
 
 
==================================

 
Hindi nakarating ng langit si Enoch.  Saan pala siya napunta?  Sa lupa rin.  Ewan kung saan sa lupa, wala ngang nakakalam, e ("he was not found").  Basta hindi sa langit.   :D  Tinago lang siya ng Diyos dito sa mundo.
 
Ang sabi sa Hebreo:
 
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. (Heb. 11:5)
 
Ang wika, he was translated.  Ano yung "translated"?  E di inilipat lang sa ibang lugar, pero namatay din. 
 
Greek interlinear: http://biblehub.com/interlinear/hebrews/11.htm
 
"Translated" --- In Greek, the word used was "metetethē."  Meaning: to transfer.
 
Wala nang nakaalam kung nasaan siya, kasi Diyos ang naglipat sa kanya sa ibang lugar.  Isa lang ang sigurado -- Hindi siya napunta sa langit, at hanggang ngayon, wala pa rin siya sa langit.
 

Offline majoe

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #381 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:01 PM »
Ang sabi, a bishop must be the husband of one wife.  E di puwede ngang mag-asawa ang bishop.
 
..


hmm... e yung di naman mga bishops, pwede ba mag asawa ng more than 1?

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #382 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:07 PM »
Siyempre hindi.

Nasa ibang verses naman yon.  Pero hindi na kailangang i-discuss, masyadong madali, matagal na nating alam ang sagot.

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #383 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:08 PM »
@sir Quintacet

I think it would good if you explain and show to others the biblical verses that support the doctrine of INC re exclusivity if you don't mind. Alam ko kasi meron itong verses sa bible specially the far east part.

nagbago na kaya doctrine ng INC?
naalala ko kasi yung dating officemate ko na INC na medyo may posisyon sa church nila.
lagi ako kinukulit na magpa doktrina.
sabi nya kapag wala daw sa katawan, di daw maliligtas.
tapos kahit anong paliwanag sakin, di talaga ako makumbinsi na si Felix Manalo ay anghel tapos si Hesus ay tao lang. dami nyang binabasa na verses to support their claim.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:18 PM by majoe »

Offline majoe

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #384 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:23 PM »
My replies in blue/red letters...


Enoch is not the first... God took him away, experience death spirtually but not physical death...

Enoch walked with God tapos namatay spiritually???

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #385 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:30 PM »
nagbago na kaya doctrine ng INC?
naalala ko kasi yung dating officemate ko na INC na medyo may posisyon sa church nila.
lagi ako kinukulit na magpa doktrina.
sabi nya kapag wala daw sa katawan, di daw maliligtas.
tapos kahit anong paliwanag sakin, di talaga ako makumbinsi na si Felix Manalo ay anghel tapos si Hesus ay tao lang. dami nyang binabasa na verses to support their claim.


Ang naririnig ko, si kapatid na Felix daw ay hindi anghel na heavenly being, kundi anghel na "messenger of God," na tao rin.

Tama naman na puwedeng tawaging angel ang isang tao, kung siya ay isang tao na messenger ng Diyos. http://biblehub.com/greek/32.htm

Siya ang huling sugo, o ang huling messenger of God sa sikatan ng araw.

Official doctrine nila yan, tama?

Offline majoe

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #386 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 09:39 PM »

Ang naririnig ko, si kapatid na Felix daw ay hindi anghel na heavenly being, kundi anghel na "messenger of God," na tao rin.

Tama naman na puwedeng tawaging angel ang isang tao, kung siya ay isang tao na messenger ng Diyos. http://biblehub.com/greek/32.htm

Siya ang huling sugo, o ang huling messenger of God sa sikatan ng araw.

Official doctrine nila yan, tama?


kasama nga yan sa paliwanag nila. ang di ako makumbinsi, ay sya nga ba talaga yung anghel na yun sa far east.

Offline majoe

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #387 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:01 PM »
Hindi ba't may hula na ipagkakanulo si Jesus?

may hula pero di pa rin ibig sabihin na walang free will si judas.
choice pa rin nya yun kahit sabihin pa nating may nang dedemonyo sa kanya.
si peter nga, akala nya di nya madedeny si Hesus pero na deny pa rin.
ibig sabihin lang, kapag dumating sa isang tao ang pagsubok, lalabas talaga ang natural tendency nya. 
greed sa case ni judas at self preservation naman kay peter. yun ang nangibabaw at choice naman nila yun.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:08 PM by majoe »

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #388 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:08 PM »
kasama nga yan sa paliwanag nila. ang di ako makumbinsi, ay sya nga ba talaga yung anghel na yun sa far east.

Iba ang paniniwala ko sa kanila.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:09 PM by barrister »

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Re: Non-Catholic
« Reply #389 on: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:19 PM »
Enoch walked with God tapos namatay spiritually???

Oh... di ko lang nahati ng maayos ang words arrangement...

All including enoch experienced 1 type of death - spiritual death
But not all experienced or some will not experience the other type of death - physical death

Luke 9:60 "Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

1. Enoch - when he was born he is already dead spiritually, he was born again by faith but never experienced physical death
2. Jesus - was born without sin and experienced physical death
3. Believers before rapture - experienced both spiritual and physical death
4. Believers during rapture - experienced spiritual death but will not experience physical death like enoch

Enoch and all believers experienced two type of birth - spiritual and physical birth
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2015 at 10:22 PM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.