Topic: MarkAudio Extended Full Range drivers - Post your build here

[Gino]

RXV, kamusta ang headroom with the APPJ? Maybe it's time for my 2nd project 

[deist]

Ayos! An issue I found with the Alpairs (if you will call it an "issue" at all  ); it is not forgiving to badly recorded materials.

Btw, were you referring to the Alpairs when you raised this question about soundstage?
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,199801.0.html

 

When rxv brought his speakers im my home, we played bromo, daft punk and focal test disc.  Im also curious to see how it performs on extreme frequencies.  My findings-  it is abundant!  Hehehe

[JoeyGS]

Tapat lang naman ang mga Alpairs..... garbage in, garbage out

Ayos! An issue I found with the Alpairs (if you will call it an "issue" at all  ); it is not forgiving to badly recorded materials.

Btw, were you referring to the Alpairs when you raised this question about soundstage?
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,199801.0.html

 

[cyberdraven]

Ayos! An issue I found with the Alpairs (if you will call it an "issue" at all  ); it is not forgiving to badly recorded materials.

Btw, were you referring to the Alpairs when you raised this question about soundstage?
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,199801.0.html

 

Nope.  If the alpair sounded bad on crappy recordings, that's actually a good trait.  it shows the speaker is revealing!

[deist]

Sounds like you really liked the Alpair's sound. Are we going to see here your build soon? 

Nope.  If the alpair sounded bad on crappy recordings, that's actually a good trait.  it shows the speaker is revealing!

[deist]

Honest to goodness 

Tapat lang naman ang mga Alpairs..... garbage in, garbage out

[RXV]

thanks,FWIW, i discussed the mark audio with moderators at diyaudio,
and almost all of then prefer the alpairs over the audio nirvanas.....
they just smiled at me when i told them that over here, the audio nirvanas were  hot...
many of them have used the audio nirvanas and said it was a decent speaker,
though they liked mark audio speakers better....

For me sir Tony, it still really depends on your listening preference. Being unbiased, I've heard Audio Nirvanas and I also like them e, but again I also like my MA's, I think it depends on the genre and style of listening. If I had a choice I would have them both haha

[cyberdraven]

Sounds like you really liked the Alpair's sound. Are we going to see here your build soon? 

naku pare.  wala akong tyaga dyan.  masaya nakong nakakakinig ng magagandang system.  balang araw, pag 20 nako at kumpleto na buhok, magkaka audio system din ako.  hahaha!

[RXV]

RXV, kamusta ang headroom with the APPJ? Maybe it's time for my 2nd project 

If you want headroom, of course I still suggest getting bigger tube amps if you're into dynamics.

But for me kasi, the APPJ is sufficient na in my 4x3 sq.m. room e, and that fact that it just consumes 38 watts and sounds so good (and a tube roller's delight having only 1 signal tube), nakatago na lang din 12 watter tube amp ko :p

[RXV]

Ayos! An issue I found with the Alpairs (if you will call it an "issue" at all  ); it is not forgiving to badly recorded materials.

Btw, were you referring to the Alpairs when you raised this question about soundstage?
http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,199801.0.html

 

For me, this is true, based on my experience.

But the thing I like about the Alpair 10P is that since it has a smoother signature, it is a "little more" forgiving to badly recorded music.

Yung Alpair 7.3, naku, yun talaga nagrereveal ng bad system recordings. Sobrang analytic e.

[deist]

thanks,FWIW, i discussed the mark audio with moderators at diyaudio,
and almost all of then prefer the alpairs over the audio nirvanas.....
they just smiled at me when i told them that over here, the audio nirvanas were  hot...
many of them have used the audio nirvanas and said it was a decent speaker,
though they liked mark audio speakers better....

Sa diyaudio hindi talaga well regarded ang ANs, from what I've read most of them say that the box plans provided by the manufacturer isn't optimized for the drivers. And the others who simulated & designed boxes on their own ended up with underwhelming speakers, the reason: discrepancies in the T/S parameters. To design an enclosure you need the correct T/S parameters of the drivers, and they say that some of the numbers provided by the manufacturer are wrong.

I'm not dissing ANs, in fact I would like to try one since walang malaking drivers ang MAs. But i'm also skeptical because if a simple and honest T/S parameters can't be provided by the manufacturer, then you have to question the integrity of the designer.

[RXV]

The weird thing that I experienced with my Alpair 7.3 is that I realized that it is a very neutral speaker.

Since it has a metal cone composite material, it doesn't literally need tweeters anymore, the highs are all there, yes for me up to 20khz range (when I connected it to my APPJ mini tube amp before). So some would think that it is a slightly bright sounding speaker. For me, it is not, but rather because it is a very detailed driver.

When I installed it in the dashboard of my car, it sounded like a British speaker: rich, warm, and very inviting, but with naturally recessed highs, I wondered why. I realized now that it was just revealing the sonic signature of my Alpine amp, which is known to produce warm sounding signature. Yun lang nga medyo nagroll-off ang highs, which is lacking for my personal taste. For a metal-cone driver, it is sure warm sounding when connected to a certain "warm" amp.

Now either to experiment with a different car amp, or use the Alpair7 for home use and make another DIY box hahaha. Huwag na muna :p

[RXV]

Sa diyaudio hindi talaga well regarded ang ANs, from what I've read most of them say that the box plans provided by the manufacturer isn't optimized for the drivers. And the others who simulated & designed boxes on their own ended up with underwhelming speakers, the reason: discrepancies in the T/S parameters. To design an enclosure you need the correct T/S parameters of the drivers, and they say that some of the numbers provided by the manufacturer are wrong.

I'm not dissing ANs, in fact I would like to try one since walang malaking drivers ang MAs. But i'm also skeptical because if a simple and honest T/S parameters can't be provided by the manufacturer, then you have to question the integrity of the designer.

+1 on the driver size. This is one reason why I like to try AN's, they normally have bigger displacement models which means more bass output for certain genres.

Although, I have to admit, when I heard a REL subwoofer perform before, grabe iba talaga ang quality and depth of lows, and it just "vanishes". A dedicated music sub still can't be beat.

Makes me wonder now if I can make a DIY version of a high quality musical sub haha.

[cyberdraven]

The weird thing that I experienced with my Alpair 7.3 is that I realized that it is a very neutral speaker.

Since it has a metal cone composite material, it doesn't literally need tweeters anymore, the highs are all there, yes for me up to 20khz range (when I connected it to my APPJ mini tube amp before). So some would think that it is a slightly bright sounding speaker. For me, it is not, but rather because it is a very detailed driver.

When I installed it in the dashboard of my car, it sounded like a British speaker: rich, warm, and very inviting, but with naturally recessed highs, I wondered why. I realized now that it was just revealing the sonic signature of my Alpine amp, which is known to produce warm sounding signature. Yun lang nga medyo nagroll-off ang highs, which is lacking for my personal taste. For a metal-cone driver, it is sure warm sounding when connected to a certain "warm" amp.

Now either to experiment with a different car amp, or use the Alpair7 for home use and make another DIY box hahaha. Huwag na muna :p

naku pare, ibang animales ang oto.  hahaha.  cabin gain and reflections comes into play na.  its easy to make it sound full of bass and its very difficult to have a coherent midrange and well-imaging highs.

[Gino]

Car audio was a big mess in my audio past. Spent the most money on a final system that is nowhere near as good as my dedicated room system. That's not bragging. My dedicated room is terribly flawed acoustically. My car is now empty. Has speakers lang he he. Amp, HU, and sub cabinets.

[cyberdraven]

Car audio was a big mess in my audio past. Spent the most money on a final system that is nowhere near as good as my dedicated room system. That's not bragging. My dedicated room is terribly flawed acoustically. My car is now empty. As speakers lang he he. Amp, HU, and sub cabinets.

I hear you brother.  Amen!  hahaha!

[JoeyGS]

To diy a musical sub, you may want to consider getting a Rythmik sub Kit and build your own box.

This has been done by our fellow member which he published in the following forum:

http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=25235

+1 on the driver size. This is one reason why I like to try AN's, they normally have bigger displacement models which means more bass output for certain genres.

Although, I have to admit, when I heard a REL subwoofer perform before, grabe iba talaga ang quality and depth of lows, and it just "vanishes". A dedicated music sub still can't be beat.

Makes me wonder now if I can make a DIY version of a high quality musical sub haha.

[Superman]

Agree on the Rythmik. Thanks!

[RXV]

To diy a musical sub, you may want to consider getting a Rythmik sub Kit and build your own box.

This has been done by our fellow member which he published in the following forum:

http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=25235

Sorry for the OT, but what other subwoofer drivers strictly for audio use would you recommend for a musical sub? An affordable one kahit na car audio sub. 10" or 12" siguro, basta mabilis humabol sa fast punch ng MA's

Para bumagay sa roll-off lows ng MA's (para hindi na OT haha)

[deist]

RXV - go with the subs bro. Dual is much preferred. No need to use bigger FR drivers to handle the mids & highs, in fact in my research the recommended FR size for F.A.S.T. is 3" to 4" para wide ang dispersion. Small drivers will always handle the highs better, that's physics. Relieving the Alpairs off of its low level duties will give you better transient response for mids & highs.

[RXV]

RXV - go with the subs bro. Dual is much preferred. No need to use bigger FR drivers to handle the mids & highs, in fact in my research the recommended FR size for F.A.S.T. is 3" to 4" para wide ang dispersion. Small drivers will always handle the highs better, that's physics. Relieving the Alpairs off of its low level duties will give you better transient response for mids & highs.

Yun na nga naisip ko e. That's why Mark Felon created the Alpair 7P (paper) along with a special separate midbass driver (paper) for a F.A.S.T. system. I haven't seen any reviews of it though.

Anyway, ganun din naman sa car audio ko, Alpair 7.3 is high-passed starting at 160hz, and the rest goes to the dedicated midbass and subwoofer na (lows).

[tony]

Sa diyaudio hindi talaga well regarded ang ANs, from what I've read most of them say that the box plans provided by the manufacturer isn't optimized for the drivers. And the others who simulated & designed boxes on their own ended up with underwhelming speakers, the reason: discrepancies in the T/S parameters. To design an enclosure you need the correct T/S parameters of the drivers, and they say that some of the numbers provided by the manufacturer are wrong.

I'm not dissing ANs, in fact I would like to try one since walang malaking drivers ang MAs. But i'm also skeptical because if a simple and honest T/S parameters can't be provided by the manufacturer, then you have to question the integrity of the designer.

sinabi mo pa.....david dicks was banned there...pero i had no hand in that, hindi pa ako moderator ng mga panahong yon.....

[RXV]

My initial impressions on using the egg-crate acoustic foam absorber for both my
Markaudio Alpair 10P and Alpair 7.3 enclosures:



VERDICT: Try it! You might regret not to, it's just a couple of hundred bucks anyway. The permanent sonic improvements for me are well worth it.

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,200549.msg2273286.html#msg2273288

[cyberdraven]

You could opt to use car audio subs but get the dual vc 4ohms para you could wire it at 8ohms.  I once tried the seas leroy and i find it very musical.  Also those JL and image dynamics subs.  Me nakita ako dati that uses the seas leroy with bash plate amp for home.

[JojoD818]

para saan ba yan T/S parameters na yan? 

swerte na ngayon may mga plans na at most importantly may internet/Google na... back in the late 80's lapis at papel gamit ko for computing Thiele/Small parameters. nun nagkaroon ako ng first pc ko Basic/Qbasic program para mas madali ang computation. ngayon nagkalat na ang simulators na pwede gamitin...

back then, we really relied on the specs given by the driver manufacturer, it's the only thing we have to go on unless gusto maging suntok sa buwan ang box design.

[deist]

^ Hindi ko nga rin maintindihan brader Jo, at this day & age sa dami ng tools available, T/S parameters di pa maibigay ng tama?  You're a manufacturer for heaven's sake, ano man lang gastusan mo yung tool to measure it. Ang tingin ko it's for marketing, para maging "attractive" ang specs they did some padding.

If it's the frequency response graph maintindihan ko pa kung may discrepancies since ang daming variables dyan. The anechoic chamber alone iba't ibang level ang quality & the measurement tools like the calibrated microphone, price ranges from tens of $ to hundred thousand 

[JojoD818]

^ Hindi ko nga rin maintindihan brader Jo, at this day & age sa dami ng tools available, T/S parameters di pa maibigay ng tama?  You're a manufacturer for heaven's sake, ano man lang gastusan mo yung tool to measure it. Ang tingin ko it's for marketing, para maging "attractive" ang specs they did some padding.

If it's the frequency response graph maintindihan ko pa kung may discrepancies since ang daming variables dyan. The anechoic chamber alone iba't ibang level ang quality & the measurement tools like the calibrated microphone, price ranges from tens of $ to hundred thousand 

Brader, I believe today's manufacturers need not invest in test equipments anymore because there are institutions who offer these tests. And because it's a separate entity who does the actual testing, the results are more viable to the consumer.

Siyempre pag in-house mas forgiving yan, but with today's DIYers naman, mabubuking ka din pag nag padding ka.

[JoeyGS]

The next driver in mind is JL Audio but its expensive and you still have to design or build the crossover network plus the amplifier.  With the Rythmik sub, when you buy the kit, it includes the driver, crossover and amplifier, designed to perform together.

Sorry for the OT, but what other subwoofer drivers strictly for audio use would you recommend for a musical sub? An affordable one kahit na car audio sub. 10" or 12" siguro, basta mabilis humabol sa fast punch ng MA's

Para bumagay sa roll-off lows ng MA's (para hindi na OT haha)

[deist]

A new MarkAudio venture:




System tuning by Dr. Scott Lindgren, same designer of Pensil enclosures for MarkAudio drivers 

Here's the link to the website:
http://www.markaudio-sota.com/

[JoeyGS]

WOW

any idea on the price?

...and nasa hong kong lang......