Author Topic: Question on the Holy Trinity  (Read 54689 times)

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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #30 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 09:32 AM »
Frankly there are many events and characters in the Bible both in the OT and NT that requires investigation, not only the Trinity.

From my point of view, the Bible has no contradictory statements from the beginning till the end. But of course I fully respect your opinion sir.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #31 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 09:37 AM »
From my point of view, the Bible has no contradictory statements from the beginning till the end. But of course I fully respect your opinion sir.

As I do yours, sir.

Offline SiCkBoY

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Re: Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #32 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 09:45 AM »
From my point of view, the Bible has no contradictory statements from the beginning till the end. But of course I fully respect your opinion sir.
It's a hodgepodge of different books written in different eras. Add the fact that most, if not all, passages are subject to interpretation, you can find anything you want in the Bible--whether it be contradiction or explanation/confirmation.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #33 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 09:48 AM »
Can we change the subject of this thread to BIBLE QUESTIONS or QUESTIONS ABOUT THE BIBLE instead?

Offline dodie

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #34 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 10:01 AM »
From my point of view, the Bible has no contradictory statements from the beginning till the end. But of course I fully respect your opinion sir.

From my point of view, the Bible has no contradictory statements from the beginning till the end. But of course I fully respect your opinion sir.

+100 master

if we believe that the guide and basis of our faith is the holy bible, questioning it will also undermine our faith. it is the book in which almost all mainstream religions are based. it was interpreted the way the founders of every religion wanted it to be understood to favor their advancement and hopefully convince the faithful thet theirs is the ONE. here we go full circle, if we belive the holiness and the iffalability of the scriptures, then we believe that holy spirit,which is sent by god to guide the apostles in teachings and writing his words, is one with the father and the son.....
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Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #35 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 12:18 PM »
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.


Will this be a good law in the Philippines?

Offline fattyacid

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #36 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 12:55 PM »
I read that not all rules in the OT should be followed in the NT or even in the current times.
Be better than the Theater.

Offline dodie

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #37 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 01:19 PM »
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.


Will this be a good law in the Philippines?

hahahahaha. malamang makarami si cedric lee nya bossing. ;D ;D ;D bka ako tatlo! ;D ;D ;D
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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #38 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 01:20 PM »
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Will this be a good law in the Philippines?

That verse is true sir. And it applies to God's people, the israelites. The command was given to them, not to us gentiles. And in my opinion, it will not be a good law here.

I read that not all rules in the OT should be followed in the NT or even in the current times.

Good question sir. Can you site a specific law that you think should not be followed?
« Last Edit: Jul 30, 2014 at 01:22 PM by Nelson de Leon »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #39 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:03 PM »
It's a hodgepodge of different books written in different eras. Add the fact that most, if not all, passages are subject to interpretation, you can find anything you want in the Bible--whether it be contradiction or explanation/confirmation.

That is true sir from your point of view. The way i see it naman, it's also a compilation of different events, prophesies and prophesy fulfillment. Hindi din po ako theologian kaya hirap din ako minsan so I always pray to God before reading the Bible for enlightenment. the Bible is "God-breathe".

Quote
2 Timothy 3:16-17New International Version (NIV)

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Hence it should not be contradicting. The interpretations should glorify God. For me sir, Christianity is supposedly not a religion. It's a personal relationship with God our creator.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #40 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:25 PM »
My aunt explained this to me when I asked her about it, simply add the word AS as part of the Holy Trinity:

God as the Father
God as the Son
and, God as the Holy Spirit

Just as I am
M as the son of my parents
M as the husband of my wife
M as the father of my child
M as the brother of my siblings
M as the friend of my friends
Etc etc..

3 persons in 1 being. I am one person but a different person to many. Just as at times we relate to God as our Father, or sometimes as our Friend and Brother, and so on.

I believe that it truly is a mystery and these are the things that I believe not by sight, but with my faith which is what I hold dear the most. The way I see it, God has always been God since He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning, end, and everything in between and beyond. Just as I was a child to my parents in the beginning, I was already a brother to my siblings, a friend to many, and now, a husband and a father to my family which is now my present, and how it will be with my end. 

But M as a son cannot be the M as the father also of the same person. You (a father) cannot beget a son (who is you also).

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #41 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:33 PM »
Quote
From NIV:

Quote
Genesis 1:26 New International Version (NIV)

26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

Sino ang kausap dito?

God might be referring to angels as it would contradict with other scriptures such as this:

KJV
Isaiah 45:5  I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

There is nothing in Genesis 1:26 about three persons in God.

Just to add sir. If we consider angels, I think it's impossible for angels to create man. The word used is "Let Us" meaning gumawa tayo. God cannot co-create man with angels because only God can create man.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #42 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:38 PM »
^That's why in verse 27, "27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

not they

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #43 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:45 PM »
^That's why in verse 27, "27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

not they

Yes sir. Exactly sir. Verse 26 was a conversation. verse 27 was the act of creation. So yun kausap niya sa verse 26 is also a God who can create. But if you will ask me, bakit siya lang nag-create kung may kausap din siya? I cannot answer that because for me, mystery na yan.  ;D So dun sa 2 verses na yun, assuming na you would accept na hindi angel ang kausap niya based on my explanation above, we can see the plurality of God, but singularity sa creation.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #44 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:50 PM »
Yes sir. Exactly sir. Verse 26 was a conversation. verse 27 was the act of creation. So yun kausap niya sa verse 26 is also a God who can create. But if you will ask me, bakit siya lang nag-create kung may kausap din siya? I cannot answer that because for me, mystery na yan.  ;D So dun sa 2 verses na yun, assuming na you would accept na hindi angel ang kausap niya based on my explanation above, we can see the plurality of God, but singularity sa creation.

In Colossians, Jesus was panganay sa lahat ng nilalang so nilalang din siya. A God created another god who can create?

So there are more than one God, is this what you are saying?

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #45 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:54 PM »
In Colossians, Jesus was panganay sa lahat ng nilalang so nilalang din siya. A God created another god who can create?

So there are more than one God, is this what you are saying?

Can you site the specific verse sir sa Colossians?

There is 1 God in 3 persona sir. That is what i'm saying.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #46 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 02:56 PM »
Can you site the specific verse sir sa Colossians?

There is 1 God in 3 persona sir. That is what i'm saying.

Forgive me but I can't accept plurality in one, unless we are talking of multiple personalities but even so refer to one single entity still.


Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #47 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 03:23 PM »
Forgive me but I can't accept plurality in one, unless we are talking of multiple personalities but even so refer to one single entity still.

No worries sir! There are a lot of things like me and you, as mere mortals, cannot comprehend. After all we are not God so we all cannot think like a God, otherwise, hindi na siya Diyos if we can think like Him. Ang important for us is we can share our beliefs with respect and without hatred, and let the readers decide for themselves. Afterall, we also respect this forum where ang dami natin nakilala and natutunan.

Sabi nga sa ABS-CBN, To God be the Glory!

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #48 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 03:28 PM »
No worries sir! There are a lot of things like me and you, as mere mortals, cannot comprehend. After all we are not God so we all cannot think like a God, otherwise, hindi na siya Diyos if we can think like Him. Ang important for us is we can share our beliefs with respect and without hatred, and let the readers decide for themselves. Afterall, we also respect this forum where ang dami natin nakilala and natutunan.

Sabi nga sa ABS-CBN, To God be the Glory!

Thanks, sir. It's nice to find another person and a thread where discussions don't go beyond the topic and sooner or later go to attacks on persons and personalities.

After all a benevolent God would probably understand how limited our way of thinking is even on matters concerning Him.

In fact I believe that God (if He exists) would even pity the Atheists (not that they want it) because he would understand that their disbelief is based on evidence that they couldn't find.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #49 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 03:39 PM »
Thanks, sir. It's nice to find another person and a thread where discussions don't go beyond the topic and sooner or later go to attacks on persons and personalities.

After all a benevolent God would probably understand how limited our way of thinking is even on matters concerning Him.

In fact I believe that God (if He exists) would even pity the Atheists (not that they want it) because he would understand that their disbelief is based on evidence that they couldn't find.

Amen sir. It's up for God to judge the atheists and not for us. It's only up to us to fulfill The Great Commission. May mga guidelines din naman ang mga christians as to how to evangelize, love and respect non-believers. I believe it is contained in one of the letters of Paul. nakalimutan ko lang which one specifically. hehe!

Offline saro

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #50 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 03:49 PM »
share ko lang po..
Colossians 1:15- the firstborn of all creation
gen 1:26,27-god is talking to jesus..-since he is the firstborn of all creation..and in
1 cor 8:6 -there is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him

proverbs 8:30-tells us that jesus is master worker,-he never laid claim to the title of co-Creator
mathew 19:4-only god is the creator

Offline dodie

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #51 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 03:54 PM »
Yes sir. Exactly sir. Verse 26 was a conversation. verse 27 was the act of creation. So yun kausap niya sa verse 26 is also a God who can create. But if you will ask me, bakit siya lang nag-create kung may kausap din siya? I cannot answer that because for me, mystery na yan.  ;D So dun sa 2 verses na yun, assuming na you would accept na hindi angel ang kausap niya based on my explanation above, we can see the plurality of God, but singularity sa creation.

i believe boss na when the lord talks about creation, jesus was already in heaven before his birth on earth. when god say us, he myt be talking with jesus. we just speculate but definitely he was there already.

John 6:38-40
For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me; and this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one who sees the Son and believes in him should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Can you site the specific verse sir sa Colossians?

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
John 8:58
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

This verses blatantly say that he is before all things.


John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was god.
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only,[ 1:14 Or the Only Begotten] who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

So Jesus was with God in the beginning. the existence of jesus in human form is the culmination of the prophecy. from the very beginning GOD knew that he will be sending his son to save his creation.




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Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #52 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:05 PM »
i believe boss na when the lord talks about creation, jesus was already in heaven before his birth on earth. when god say us, he myt be talking with jesus. we just speculate but definitely he was there already.



I believe Jesus was just a plan at that time and the plan came to fruition when he was born.

The only justification for God in creating Adam and Eve knowing they would commit sin is the fact that he has jesus in mind even before creating anything thus "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created"

I believe he was created too and distinct from God.

Jesus proved what Adam can not, man is created by God to live in his holiness and not in sin.

If Jesus came from the Father, then he is distinct from him from whom he came from.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #53 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:24 PM »
I believe Jesus was just a plan at that time and the plan came to fruition when he was born.

The only justification for God in creating Adam and Eve knowing they would commit sin is the fact that he has jesus in mind even before creating anything thus "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For in him all things were created"

I believe he was created too and distinct from God.

Jesus proved what Adam can not, man is created by God to live in his holiness and not in sin.

If Jesus came from the Father, then he is distinct from him from whom he came from.

This would contradict this:

Quote
John 8:58 New International Version (NIV)

58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Offline AppleMan

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #54 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:27 PM »
Buhat pa ng walang PASIMULA sya (Jesus Christ) ay nailabas o nailuwal na sa sinapupunan ng Ama sa langit....
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Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #55 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:27 PM »
This would contradict this:


That could be interpreted differently as I see nothing wrong with Jesus as planned before Abraham was.

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #56 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:28 PM »
Buhat pa ng walang PASIMULA sya (Jesus Christ) ay nailabas o nailuwal na sa sinapupunan ng Ama sa langit....

Again this proves he is distinct from the one whom he came from. I agree that's why he is called the Son of God but the Son is not the Father. They are distinct from each other.

Offline dodie

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #57 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:38 PM »

if Jesus came from the Father, then he is distinct from him from whom he came from.

yes sir.   There is only one God - so even as we talk about the three persons of the trinity we are talking about one God. All three persons of the trinity are God. If you want to look at some verses, you could look at Deuteronomy 6:4, Galatians 1:1, John 1:1-18, and Matthew 28:19.

 There is relationship in the trinity - the Son (Jesus) is obedient to the Father (Luke 22:42); the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son (John 16:15ff).

So the three persons of the trinity are the same God, but they are each distinct. They have different roles, but each action any member of the trinity might do is God’s action, regardless of who did it.

We see this distinction / unity when Jesus identifies himself with the Father, saying that he and the Father ‘are one’ (John 10:38, 17:11,21), and that he is in the Father and vice versa (John 14:11). Jesus does not say that he IS the Father, or that he and the Father are the SAME, but that they are ONE. So they are distinct, yet unified.

ang gulo gulo..... but im a believer  :) :)
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Offline Quitacet

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #58 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:41 PM »
Ang gulo-gulo nga, hahahahahaha

Anyway, I respect your reasons for believing what you believe.


Offline dodie

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Re: Question on the Holy Trinity
« Reply #59 on: Jul 30, 2014 at 04:56 PM »
Ang gulo-gulo nga, hahahahahaha

Anyway, I respect your reasons for believing what you believe.

thse verses show the distinction of father and son but considered as one:
john 10:38 "But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father"
John 17:11" I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you.Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one."
Matthew 28:19" go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

pitstop muna ako mga bossings. nakakasakit ng ulo! ayos na lang muna gallery para relax! ;D ;D
« Last Edit: Jul 30, 2014 at 05:03 PM by dodie »
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