Author Topic: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech  (Read 22095 times)

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Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #60 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 09:59 AM »
when you mock a religious person - its freedom of speech
when you mock a homosexual - its bigotry, its discrimination, its bullying :)

when you disagree to the idea of religions - its wisdom, matalino ka and civilized and intiligent
when you disagree to the idea of homosexuality - you're an idiot, uncivilized and ignorant

when you stage a protest inside worship place - freedom of speech and expression
when you stage a protest during pride/gay day - you're homophobic, hater etc...

grabe ang pag-abuso sa salitang "freedom of speech" ... as long as it will serve their own agenda they will always cry for "freedom of speech and expression"...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline jjjeronimo

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #61 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 10:02 AM »
People use freedom of speech as an excuse to mock, criticize or insult.  The problem with this world is intolerance.  Just because your belief systems are different doesn't give you the right to mock/criticize/insult those who think otherwise. 

I'm sick and tired of people who are saying that religion is the cause of the world's problems.  It goes beyond that, as this world will be a much more peaceful world if we can accept that the opinion of others may be different from ours. 

You wish to sway the opinion of others?  Fine.  But try to convince them without disrespecting their current set of beliefs, please.

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #62 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 10:19 AM »
Also ok lang sana that you have your own views and disagree about other people's belief. I would respect that. But you would use mockery and ridicule to disrespect that religion...... But then nagsisimba ka pa rin naman kada linggo kasama parents mo right Klaus?

Offline ABCmotorparts

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #63 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 10:24 AM »
And we wonder why walang WORLD PEACE,..?  ;D

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #64 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 12:45 PM »
NR pero kung extremist ka, patayan na.  We are all made to be different, with different views and different reactions.

The problem lies with the extremists, not the critics. Jesus is mocked on a regular basis in South Park and Family Guy. Hell, in the Broadway show The Book of Mormon, there's an ENTIRE song about saying F-you to God. But no one has shot Seth MacFarlane, Trey Parker or Matt Stone (all either atheists or agnostics). I don't think anyone here would advocate that.

If you're offended by something, you counter it by expressing yourself through peaceful means, not through violence.

Offline comet

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #65 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 12:46 PM »
you can not say that to everybody

Offline CMac

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #66 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 12:53 PM »
that's what you get for watching too many movies. you try to absorb too many ideals that you've forgotten your own.

Offline WanLu

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #67 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 05:08 PM »
The problem lies with the extremists, not the critics. Jesus is mocked on a regular basis in South Park and Family Guy. Hell, in the Broadway show The Book of Mormon, there's an ENTIRE song about saying F-you to God. But no one has shot Seth MacFarlane, Trey Parker or Matt Stone (all either atheists or agnostics). I don't think anyone here would advocate that.

If you're offended by something, you counter it by expressing yourself through peaceful means, not through violence.

Advocate? Of course not. Pero pag may nangyari sa kanila I would just take it na consequence yun ng actions nila.

Diff bet the Celdran incident and things you mentioned, I can always turn off the TV/radio or change channels if I dont like what's on. Si Celdran tried to force presenting his ideas when he made that protest sa church.

Again to quote the Pope... "It's true that we can't react violently, but, for example if Dr. Gasbarri here, a great friend of mine, says a curse word against my mother, then a punch awaits him,"

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #68 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 11:25 PM »
that's what you get for watching too many movies. you try to absorb too many ideals that you've forgotten your own.

What do you know about my "ideals"? You don't know me. Much of what I say do not come from movies but rather by reading books and listening to my professors in college.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #69 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 11:35 PM »
Bukod diyan, feeling ko KULANG KA SA PAGMAMAHAL nung maliit ka pa. WALANG pumapansin sa iyo. Baka hindi ka nakatikim ng LOVING HUGS & KISSES nung maliit ka dpogs.

hmmm... much more "i feel violated during my younger years"...

kaya humanda ang mga umabuso sa akin at nagviolate ng mura kong pag-iisp... nasa akin ang huling halakhak... ipapamukha ko sa kanila ang aking galit... ipapamukha ko sa kanila ang kawalanghiyaang ginawa nila sa akin... ipapamukha ko sa kanila na ang mga ginagawa nila ay mali ....
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #70 on: Jan 16, 2015 at 11:50 PM »
when you mock a religious person - its freedom of speech
when you mock a homosexual - its bigotry, its discrimination, its bullying :)

when you disagree to the idea of religions - its wisdom, matalino ka and civilized and intiligent
when you disagree to the idea of homosexuality - you're an idiot, uncivilized and ignorant


Masyado na ang pang-aapi ng mga yan sa atin. Here's a classic example:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/petitions/reinstate-kelvin-cochran

Gusto nila sila lang ang may karapatan. Tayong Hindi lgbt, tinatanggal sa trabaho. Masyado na tayong inaapi. Dapat di tayo pumapayag ng ginaganito tayo.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #71 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 12:10 AM »
at merong pang pagbabanta... ang sinuman na hindi sang ayon sa ideals ng lgbt... they will threaten you and your company to close down seems simliar sa ginawa nila para lang mawala sa list ng mga mental disorder ang homosexuality - harassment... tsk...

freedom of speech ... freedom of expression... may mga tao talanga mahilig umabuso... may mga tao talagang sobra ang pagka rebelde in nature...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline ABCmotorparts

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #72 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 12:20 AM »
hmmm... much more "i feel violated during my younger years"...

kaya humanda ang mga umabuso sa akin at nagviolate ng mura kong pag-iisp... nasa akin ang huling halakhak... ipapamukha ko sa kanila ang aking galit... ipapamukha ko sa kanila ang kawalanghiyaang ginawa nila sa akin... ipapamukha ko sa kanila na ang mga ginagawa nila ay mali ....

Sir pupulutin sila sa kangkungan ulit,..?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #73 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 12:28 AM »
Sir pupulutin sila sa kangkungan ulit,..?

nooo... i am a peace loving member of society...

i'll just call them idiots, ignorant, bigots.. then i will mock their gods, call their leader and members an idiot, will protest inside their church at sisihin ko ang simbahan sa lahat na mali na nangyayari sa bansa... and then wrs case scenario... call the attention of all people who shares my idea to boycott their products/business etc...

:):):)
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #74 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 12:37 AM »

Gusto nila sila lang ang may karapatan. Tayong Hindi lgbt, tinatanggal sa trabaho. Masyado na tayong inaapi. Dapat di tayo pumapayag ng ginaganito tayo.

A lot of Christians have persecution complex. How many LGBT's have been killed, bullied, kicked out of their houses and been discriminated against because of being LGBT? Getting criticism or paying the consequences (which is nowhere NEAR the level of the persecution Christians have inflicted on the LGBT's) for discriminating against gays, iyak na kaagad kayo.




Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #75 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 12:55 AM »
paghihiganti - main objective

they're not looking for equality... they want revenge actually...

so... they will use all means to advance their agenda... pati freedom of speech and expression gagamitin ng mga 'radical' na ito... hindi para sa pakinabang ng nakakarami kungdi para sa pansarili nilang interes...

walang pinagkaiba sa mga radical extremist believer ng mga religion... gagawin ang lahat maisulong lang ang kanilang paniniwala...
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2015 at 01:11 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline greatauror28

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #76 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 01:20 AM »
Nice read first thing in the morning drinking coffee sitting on my chair facing my workstation.

Clearly, somebody must me fun at parties.
50P400 BP120 PS3 RTiA7 A1

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #77 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 07:56 AM »
A lot of Christians have persecution complex. How many LGBT's have been killed, bullied, kicked out of their houses and been discriminated against because of being LGBT? Getting criticism or paying the consequences (which is nowhere NEAR the level of the persecution Christians have inflicted on the LGBT's) for discriminating against gays, iyak na kaagad kayo.


Look who's talking now.  ;)

let's try to rephrase your statement for you to read:

A lot of LGBTs have persecution complex. How many people have been killed, bullied, kicked out of their houses and been discriminated w/o any reason? Getting criticism or paying the consequences (which is nowhere NEAR the level of the persecution LGBT's have inflicted on the other people) for discriminating against personal beliefs, iyak na kaagad kayo.
« Last Edit: Jan 17, 2015 at 07:59 AM by Nelson de Leon »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #78 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 07:56 AM »
Nice read first thing in the morning drinking coffee sitting on my chair facing my workstation.

Clearly, somebody must me fun at parties.

Ako din, i'm having my coffee and toasted bread.

Offline ABCmotorparts

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #79 on: Jan 17, 2015 at 11:36 PM »
So tutoo nga,..! If you are not with me, you are against me,...

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #80 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 12:10 AM »
Following the Pope's example where you say he is wrong...... if someone says your mother is an idiot for raising a son like you whose disregard even for her own religion simply reflects the kind of mother she is.... you would be ok with that?

No, I wouldn't be okay with that, but I don't know about you, but the thought of killing the person who says that will never enter my head.. I could ignore him or curse him out or yell at him but killing? I think not.

I think a lot of posters here are either deliberately misconstruing my words, twisting it out around, playing dumb or don't read what I write. I never said that people should be okay with people verbally abusing them, I never said people should be okay if they felt offended or insulted by someone. I never said that. All I said was: Free speech should NEVER be legally curtailed and killing/violence is never justified for any reason whatsoever.

I say the Pope is wrong because once you start saying things like "well, you shouldn't insult a person's faith, etc." that sort of gives the murderers a justification for their actions. Yes, I know that may not be his intention but it's sort of like saying it's the rape victim's fault for getting raped because she wore something provocative.

I'm also not saying if you are offended or were insulted by someone, that you should just shut up and grin and bear it. By all means, write angry letters, organize protests and boycotts, write something insulting back, ask their boss to fire them, sue them etc. Because that's YOUR right to free expression. What I object to is demanding that the government close down the publication/banning it/censoring it, imprisoning the people involved and of course MURDERING them. To me, that is where I draw the line.

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #81 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 12:56 AM »
No, I wouldn't be okay with that, but I don't know about you, but the thought of killing the person who says that will never enter my head.. I could ignore him or curse him out or yell at him but killing? I think not.

I think a lot of posters here are either deliberately misconstruing my words, twisting it out around, playing dumb or don't read what I write. I never said that people should be okay with people verbally abusing them, I never said people should be okay if they felt offended or insulted by someone. I never said that. All I said was: Free speech should NEVER be legally curtailed and killing/violence is never justified for any reason whatsoever.

I say the Pope is wrong because once you start saying things like "well, you shouldn't insult a person's faith, etc." that sort of gives the murderers a justification for their actions. Yes, I know that may not be his intention but it's sort of like saying it's the rape victim's fault for getting raped because she wore something provocative.

I'm also not saying if you are offended or were insulted by someone, that you should just shut up and grin and bear it. By all means, write angry letters, organize protests and boycotts, write something insulting back, ask their boss to fire them, sue them etc. Because that's YOUR right to free expression. What I object to is demanding that the government close down the publication/banning it/censoring it, imprisoning the people involved and of course MURDERING them. To me, that is where I draw the line.


So you can freely mock and ridicule a LGBT and if he/she consequently commits suicide, then that's ok.  Because you were just expressing your absolute free speech to mock and ridicule?  This happens in real life and several cases were posted by you.  Oh by the way, the Filipino Muslims you called idiots in the link you posted did just what you suggested..... they "organize protests and boycotts".  But you still call them idiots right?
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015 at 01:13 AM by DVD_Freak »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #82 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 03:06 AM »
So you can freely mock and ridicule a LGBT and if he/she consequently commits suicide, then that's ok.  Because you were just expressing your absolute free speech to mock and ridicule?  This happens in real life and several cases were posted by you.  Oh by the way, the Filipino Muslims you called idiots in the link you posted did just what you suggested..... they "organize protests and boycotts".  But you still call them idiots right?

You don't seem to be reading what I write nor even COMPREHENDING what I write. I can't help you anymore. Perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension. Either that or you ARE being deliberately obtuse and dense just to troll me.


Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #83 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 08:00 AM »
You don't seem to be reading what I write nor even COMPREHENDING what I write. I can't help you anymore. Perhaps you should brush up on your reading comprehension. Either that or you ARE being deliberately obtuse and dense just to troll me.



My reading comprehension is fine thank you.  Perhaps you should just simply answer the question point blank. It is not my comprehension that is the problem. But you obviously skirting around the issue at hand. The post is very direct and concise without mockery or ridicule. Can't say the same about your reply. The question also falls within the parameters you yourself set.

Why is it people typically resort to insult when they can't answer the question?  Anyway, see you at Sunday mass with your parents. 
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015 at 08:05 AM by DVD_Freak »

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #84 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 08:24 AM »
dahil sa hirap na dinanas ko nang maliit pa ako at sa mga nagbully sa akin... gusto kong gantihan ang mga hindi sang-ayon sa aking pananaw...

dahil sa minolestiya ako ng religion na nakilala ko nang maliit pa ako... i will mock them and ridicule them when i grow up...

 >:( >:( >:(
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #85 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 09:46 AM »
My reading comprehension is fine thank you.  Perhaps you should just simply answer the question point blank. It is not my comprehension that is the problem. But you obviously skirting around the issue at hand. The post is very direct and concise without mockery or ridicule. Can't say the same about your reply. The question also falls within the parameters you yourself set.

Once more:

I never said it was always okay to mock or ridicule anyone. I never said that people just be grin and bear it when they get insulted or offended. I never said that we shouldn't be responsible for our words. My only words are: It's never okay to murder someone for saying something you find offensive and it's never for the GOVERNMENT to step in and try to curb freedom of expression and freedom of speech whether it's by censorship, imprisonment or killing people.

That does not mean to say I don't think people should be responsible or be held responsible for abuse of free speech. They should be. BUT THAT'S NOT GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO REGULATE THAT. In order for society and democracy to be truly free, freedom of speech should be absolute, free from any government interference. And when I say that, I don't mean to say people should say anything they want without consequences and people shouldn't have to be responsible. NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT. It's to private individuals to regulate the parameters of their freedom of speech and to call out others on what they see as their own abuse of freedom of speech.

Am I making myself clear now? 

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #86 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 10:28 AM »
Then let me quote the very words you used on your post.

Once more:

I never said it was always okay to mock or ridicule anyone.
What is "rude" and what is "decent" is very subjective.

Can it go too far? Sure.   

Like you said, what is rude and what is decent is subjective.  If you have absolute free speech, for some it is okay to always mock or ridicule someone.  They may not know where to draw the line and ceratinly it will go too far.

I never said that people just be grin and bear it when they get insulted or offended.
I'm talking about a different matter.  Each person reacts differently when ridiculed or mocked.  Some resort to insult.  Some to violence.  Some ignore it.  And some resort to taking one's life.  I'm talking about the latter.

I never said that we shouldn't be responsible for our words. My only words are: It's never okay to murder someone for saying something you find offensive and it's never for the GOVERNMENT to step in and try to curb freedom of expression and freedom of speech whether it's by censorship, imprisonment or killing people.

That does not mean to say I don't think people should be responsible or be held responsible for abuse of free speech. They should be. BUT THAT'S NOT GOVERNMENT'S JOB TO REGULATE THAT. In order for society and democracy to be truly free, freedom of speech should be absolute, free from any government interference. And when I say that, I don't mean to say people should say anything they want without consequences and people shouldn't have to be responsible. NO, THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT. It's to private individuals to regulate the parameters of their freedom of speech and to call out others on what they see as their own abuse of freedom of speech.

Am I making myself clear now? 

Well then that contradicts your earlier posts....
You say, "Well, there should be limits". I would argue, no there shouldn't be limits. As long as you're not hurting anyone, damaging other people's property or encroaching on other people's civil liberties, you should be free to express anything you like, no matter how offensive.

Well those criteria you mentioned allows ridiculing and mocking LGBT as ok even if in some cases, they resort to committing suicide.
1.  Mocking and ridiculing LGBT are not hurting anyone.
2.  Mocking and ridiculing LGBT are not damaging other people's property
3.  Mocking and ridiculing LGBT are not encroaching on other people's civil liberties

Am I making myself clear now? 

No....you muddled it even more because of contradictory posts.   ;D
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015 at 10:46 AM by DVD_Freak »

Offline dodie

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #87 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 11:16 AM »
sabi senyo mga bossing incurable na ito eh. hopeless case ika nga. isispin mong mang degrade ka ng tao pero ayaw nilang  masaktan o ma threat ang buhay nila. pero pag sila ang na degrade mo verbally, ipapaboycott yung hanapbuhay mo o kya papaalisan ka ng trabaho. eh di ba indirectly your killing the person too,  tinatangalan  mo ng kabuhayan yung isang tao eh, eh di para mo na din syang pinapatay! susmayosep!!!

pag sila naman ang ginawan mo ng pangiipit sa kanilang kabuhayan dahil sa kanilang verbal tirade, sisigaw naman sila ng persecusion!!!

ours is a simple case of damn if you do, damn if you dont! were screwed either way! >:(

mas malinaw pa ang kape ng starbuck..........
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015 at 11:42 AM by Dodie »
WCH CM U?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #88 on: Jan 18, 2015 at 12:16 PM »
they will do it peacefully naman daw...

they will peacefully make your life/business miserable...


There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline jackryan

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