Author Topic: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech  (Read 22019 times)

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Offline dodie

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #90 on: Jan 19, 2015 at 12:08 AM »
How about this one?
http://www.pep.ph/news/47577/marlene-aguilar-attacks-pope-francis-in-facebook-posts-netizens-react

oo nga sir, grabe! natawa lang ako sa isang comment calling his son(jason ivler) a murderer. nagrply ba naman si marlene ng i will sue you for calling my son a murderer! hahahahaha napikon!!
WCH CM U?

Offline tenderfender

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #91 on: Jan 19, 2015 at 10:20 AM »
I am marlene aguilar
I can say what I want to say about your pope
But I WILL SUE YOU if you call my son a MURDERER!

Yes to freedom of speech! Yes to blasphemy
But don't insult  my son!

(Katol pa, teh!)  ;D ::) :o
« Last Edit: Jan 19, 2015 at 10:22 AM by tenderfender »
"Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions"

Offline barrister

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #92 on: Jan 19, 2015 at 04:07 PM »
Magandang example yan. 

Pag sinabi mo sa Facebook na "kampon ng dilim" si Pope, that is not a violation of Art. 133 of the Revised Penal Code, freedom of speech yon.

Yung ginawa ni Celdran, violation of Art. 133 yon.  Ano difference?

Art. 133. Offending the religious feelings. — The penalty of arresto mayor in its maximum period to prision correccional in its minimum period shall be imposed upon anyone who, in a place devoted to religious worship or during the celebration of any religious ceremony shall perform acts notoriously offensive to the feelings of the faithful.

Note the phrase, "in a place devoted to religious worship or during the celebration of any religious ceremony."  Big difference.

Offline frootloops

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #93 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 11:32 AM »
If we aren't aiming to build people up and just wanna spout hatred, let's use another right. The right to remain silent.

Just because we can eat a shoe doesn't mean we should.

Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #94 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 03:28 PM »
for them - freethinkers kuno - absolutue freedom of speech/expression is beneficial para sa kanilang self-interest... magawa lang ang gusto nilang gawin kahit hindi naman kailangan...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #95 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 05:10 PM »
If we aren't aiming to build people up and just wanna spout hatred, let's use another right. The right to remain silent.

Just because we can eat a shoe doesn't mean we should.

Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial.

The thing about "rights" is that you can CHOOSE to exercise them or not. I'm not disagreeing with you. My quibble of course is that free speech should NOT be curbed by government period. Free speech should be self-regulated by individuals and communities without government interference or any criminal liability within reason. This is to guarantee you will have no fear of being fined, imprisoned or even killed if write or say something radical or unfavorable to the government.

Can anyone cite me a past case in history where censorship of a work of art or the killing of a writer or someone who says offensive things turned out to be the right thing to do and society was all the better for it?

Offline heisenbergman

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #96 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 06:13 PM »
for them - freethinkers kuno - absolutue freedom of speech/expression is beneficial para sa kanilang self-interest... magawa lang ang gusto nilang gawin kahit hindi naman kailangan...

;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filipino_Freethinkers

http://filipinofreethinkers.org

"...positions regarding truth should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, or other dogmas..."

Sali na!
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2015 at 06:13 PM by heisenbergman »

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #97 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 06:49 PM »
Ah so self-regulation lang. Meaning kanya-kanyang definition of what line not to cross.  But if somebody crosses that line, pasensyahan na lang.   :D

Offline rexFi

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #98 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 07:17 PM »
With the recent conviction of Carlos Celdran and the shooting of cartoonists in the satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, I would like to ask the board, where do they stand on blasphemy laws and whether or not they should exist in a free and democratic country that guarantees free speech.

Of course, it comes to no surprise that I think they should not exist. No one should HAVE to fear imprisonment if they criticize, mock or ridicule any idea or any person up to and including religion and God especially not in a democracy that guarantees freedom of speech.

I dunno if its been mentioned, but what Carlos did was very different from the Charlie Hebdo cartoons if we are talking about disrupting a Mass with a placard. Medyo bastos nga and the priests have the right na magdemanda.

ngayon sir may morals ka na! saan nakabase yung morals mo sir?

how about having sex sith the same gender? iis it morally right for you to do it?
how about the mocking someone's religious belief? is it morally right for you to do it?
how about calling other people idiot if their opinion is not in parallel with yours? is it morally right  for you to do it?

you've just made my day :D :D :D

Nalimutan mo Incest. (adults consenting (with contraception))

but that's another story.
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2015 at 07:24 PM by rexFi »

Offline barrister

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #99 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 09:58 PM »
Ah so self-regulation lang. Meaning kanya-kanyang definition of what line not to cross.  But if somebody crosses that line, pasensyahan na lang.   :D

 
Magandang punto yan sir.
 
During the gathering for the papal mass, 3 people were arrested for joking about possessing a bomb and 2 guns.
 
Violation of PD 1727, or freedom of speech?
 
Siyempre pag tinanong mo yung tatlong engot, sasabihin nila freedom of speech yon...  :D


 
Philippine police arrest three for bomb joke during papal mass
By Afp Published: 06:54 GMT, 20 January 2015
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2917847/Philippine-police-arrest-three-bomb-joke-papal-mass.html
 

Freedom of speech is actually a complicated constitutional law topic.  Hindi basta absolute free speech lang, ok na.   
« Last Edit: Jan 20, 2015 at 11:19 PM by barrister »

Offline DVD_Freak

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #100 on: Jan 20, 2015 at 11:22 PM »

Magandang punto yan sir.
 
During the gathering for the papal mass, 3 people were arrested for joking about possessing a bomb and 2 guns.
 
Violation of PD 1727, or freedom of speech?
 
Siyempre pag tinanong mo yung tatlong engot, sasabihin nila freedom of speech yon...  :D


 
Philippine police arrest three for bomb joke during papal mass
By Afp Published: 06:54 GMT, 20 January 2015
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-2917847/Philippine-police-arrest-three-bomb-joke-papal-mass.html
 

Akala ni sir Klaus absolute free speech lang ok na.  Freedom of speech is actually a complicated constitutional law topic.   

Magandang link yan Atty.  So if I understabnd Klaus' point of contention, dapat hindi sila parusahan ng batas.  Self-regulation lang.  Para dun sa tatlo kasi biro biro lang yun.  Para sa iba naman, crossing the line na yan.  Since dapat without government interference.... eh pasensyahan na lang lalo na if nagkapanic at stampede sa Luneta Grandstand.   ;D

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #101 on: Jan 21, 2015 at 06:54 PM »

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #102 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 06:18 PM »

Offline dodie

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #103 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 07:30 PM »
Here's a great article.

what's great in something that says that insult and mockery are okay?
WCH CM U?

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #104 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 08:08 PM »

what's great in something that says that insult and mockery are okay?

if you're homosexual then it is okay to insult and mock anyone, you're just expressing yourself and exercising free speech...

but if you're heterosexual and you insult and mock a homosexual then it is not okay anymore, its discrimination and bullying...

:):):)

:):):)
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #105 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 10:30 PM »

what's great in something that says that insult and mockery are okay?

Didn't you read the article? It says insults and mockery are not okay but that people shouldn't kill or imprison anyone because of it.

Do you think a public official is justified in killing/imprisoning a journalist if he or she writes an article that is critical of him? That is the result of what will happen if we start to try and define what is "offensive" and "insulting" because it's subjective. That public official will find that article offensive and insulting so by you're okay with him imprisoning the reporter?

For me, having to deal with vulgar, offensive non-sense is a small price to pay to prevent that from ever happening.


Offline oReOsHaKe

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #106 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 11:12 PM »
Ah so self-regulation lang. Meaning kanya-kanyang definition of what line not to cross.  But if somebody crosses that line, pasensyahan na lang.   :D

This is what happened to Charlie.  They crossed the line of the Islamic radicals..
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Offline dodie

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #107 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 11:48 PM »
Quote
Klaus Weasley
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Re: Willie Revillame: WHY???
« Reply #721 on: May 30, 2013 at 10:15 PM »
Quote
Quote from: anya618 on May 30, 2013 at 07:15 PM
Willie charged with child abuse over ‘dancing boy’

Good.

Filipinos have a strange, borderline offensive sense of humor. Our humor is almost free of sarcasm, irony and wit. It is instead filled with corniness if not corny, overly vulgar/offensive.

pag si wiiie pwedeng idemanda kse offensive yung ginawa nya, akala nya siguro madaming matutuwa! and this is just a nasty humor, not comparable sa attacks on morality and your own religious view na mas maselang issue. and yet you think that filing a case was a good move.... pero pag ikaw ang gagawa ng offensive ,vulgar tirade hindi ka pwedeng idemanda! ano yon selective justice? pag ibang tao, okay kyo, pag kayo na, hindi pwede! susmayosep!
WCH CM U?

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #108 on: Jan 28, 2015 at 11:59 PM »
pag si wiiie pwedeng idemanda kse offensive yung ginawa nya, akala nya siguro madaming matutuwa! and this is just a nasty humor, not comparable sa attacks on morality and your own religious view na mas maselang issue. and yet you think that filing a case was a good move.... pero pag ikaw ang gagawa ng offensive ,vulgar tirade hindi ka pwedeng idemanda! ano yon selective justice? pag ibang tao, okay kyo, pag kayo na, hindi pwede! susmayosep!

What he did traumatized a child. I support filing a CIVIL suit against him. Willie Revillame is an embarrassing, vulgar, reprehensible human being but I don't support killing or imprisoning him.

Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #109 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 12:07 AM »
insulting and mocking a homosexual then is okay to you?

are you saying that any person can mock and insult a homosexual without worrying na baka makulong siya o mapatay siya?
« Last Edit: Jan 29, 2015 at 12:25 AM by dpogs »
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Offline dodie

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #110 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 12:32 AM »
What he did traumatized a child. I support filing a CIVIL suit against him. Willie Revillame is an embarrassing, vulgar, reprehensible human being but I don't support killing or imprisoning him.

so pabor ka sa restriction for those vulgar and embarassing people! pero pag kyo na ang gumagawa ng embarassment dapat walang restriction. and you dont find yourself offensive, vulgar and embarrasing even lots of people think otherwise. so kung si willie gusto nyo may restriction dahil vulgar, kme gusto din namin may restriction kayo kse vulgar din kayo at embarassing! your in the same boat my dear!
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Offline newwaveboy

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #111 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 12:52 AM »
This thread feels eerily similar to the "legalization of marijuana" thread.


Offline dpogs

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #112 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 01:06 AM »
i agree that we must exercise freedom of speech and as long as it is not against our constitution then no one should be imprisoned...

but

i beleve that there is a limit on how, when or where we exercise our freedom of speech... in order to maintain/promote peace and harmony with each other...

i have the right to mock and insult anyone but i choose not to do so since it will just promote violence, anger, discomfort and likes...

i believe that those who promote "absolute" freedom of speech is a total idiot (original: a$shole)...
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #113 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 11:01 AM »
insulting and mocking a homosexual then is okay to you?

are you saying that any person can mock and insult a homosexual without worrying na baka makulong siya o mapatay siya?

No, it is NOT okay by me.

JUST BECAUSE I DON'T SUPPORT YOU GETTING IMPRISONED OR KILLED FOR IT, IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S OKAY. CAN YOU READ? CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?[/u][/i]

When I say absolute freedom of speech, I mean absolute freedom from getting killed or getting imprisoned. Not absolute freedom from consequences and responsibility. If you say "F-you" to your boss, he has every right to fire you but he has no right to kill or imprison you.

Quote
i have the right to mock and insult anyone but i choose not to do so since it will just promote violence, anger, discomfort and likes...

Yes, you are correct. But the key word here is "CHOOSE". YOU choose. NOT the government. It's not the government's job to police what is offensive and what is not.

Your right to insult and mock anyone without fear of death or prison is the same right that protects the journalist who will write a critical article about a corrupt government official or the scientist and philosopher who has a new radical and progressive idea that could change the world that other people might be uncomfortable with.


Offline heisenbergman

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #114 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 12:51 PM »
Just as a show of support, go Klaus Weasley! :D Fight the good fight :)

Offline majoe

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #115 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 01:21 PM »


Your right to insult and mock anyone without fear of death or prison is the same right that protects the journalist who will write a critical article about a corrupt government official or the scientist and philosopher who has a new radical and progressive idea that could change the world that other people might be uncomfortable with.



criticism is different from insult or mockery.
   

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #116 on: Jan 29, 2015 at 01:43 PM »
criticism is different from insult or mockery.
   

Maraming Pinoy balat-sibuyas, they wouldn't know the difference. They will take offense to any criticism whatsoever and read it as personal insults. Why do you think marami ang napapatay na journalists dito?

That's why when the government decides to crack down on trying to define what is "insulting" and "offensive", it's a slippery slope because it becomes subjective.

Will I like it someone mocks me, insults my mother or craps on my beliefs? No. But I wouldn't ask for the people who do that to be killed or go to jail. It doesn't mean that I'm okay with it. It means they have the right to say what they want to say. I can ignore them, insult them back or sue them. I do not have the right to kill them or ask the government to imprison them for offending me.

That for me is a small price to pay to live in a society where a journalist can write an article critical of the government freely or where a person can practice and express an unpopular religion or religious belief or where scientists/philosophers can express new/radical/progressive ideas that might be uncomfortable to deal with at first.


Offline speed_kills

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #117 on: Jan 30, 2015 at 10:05 AM »
Speaking of free speech, this is an interesting conversation between a comedian and muslim ladies...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYETmi9lNA

Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #118 on: Jan 30, 2015 at 11:38 AM »
Speaking of free speech, this is an interesting conversation between a comedian and muslim ladies...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryYETmi9lNA

The comedian is 100% right.

Offline comet

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Re: Blasphemy Laws and Free Speech
« Reply #119 on: Jan 30, 2015 at 12:26 PM »
I think the comedian's motto is "make a statement, life is short, make few people happy as insults are funny and make a lot of enemies because everything here's a joke"