Author Topic: AVR or AVR/integrated amp combo to listen to music? (Read 9093 times)

speed_kills · « **on:** Mar 14, 2015 at 02:36 PM »

I was reading some online articles about "HT bypass" feature of some integrated music amps.

I'm curious, for both music and movie fans who have a home theatre system in a single room, how did you set it up for audio?

1. Use the AVR for both movies and music listening via the entire 5.1 system?

2. Listen to music via a separate integrated amp that powers your front 2 speakers and with that amp connected to your AVR's preouts via "HT bypass" feature?

3. Or, have a completely separate 2-channel speaker and integrated amp independent from your 5.1 system side by side?

I'm curious if #2 is more practical because that means you can invest in a really good speaker system that you can maximize for both movies or music.

Thanks!

meat_eater · « **Reply #1 on:** Mar 14, 2015 at 02:43 PM »

You can use your fronts with another amp+preamp combo/Integrated amp and just switch banana plugs, or use a dedicated amp switcher.

I suggest dedicated sources as well, so CDP/DAC/TT for audio connected to your pre amp or integrated.

BDP/Gaming console/sat box connected to your AVR.

That way, you have 2 good systems utilizing the same fronts.

Since you will be using the same fronts, make sure you get a GOOD one to start with.

Cheers

Courage · « **Reply #2 on:** Mar 14, 2015 at 02:48 PM »

Quote from: speed_kills on Mar 14, 2015 at 02:36 PM

I was reading some online articles about "HT bypass" feature of some integrated music amps.

I'm curious, for both music and movie fans who have a home theatre system in a single room, how did you set it up for audio?

1. Use the AVR for both movies and music listening via the entire 5.1 system?

2. Listen to music via a separate integrated amp that powers your front 2 speakers and with that amp connected to your AVR's preouts via "HT bypass" feature?

3. Or, have a completely separate 2-channel speaker and integrated amp independent from your 5.1 system side by side?

I'm curious if #2 is more practical because that means you can invest in a really good speaker system that you can maximize for both movies or music.

Thanks!

I combined my HT and Audio to my Sala because i gave up on the PJ setup due to room limitations

I have a separate speakers and sub up front for HT and Audio. I also have a separate Amp/Pre-Amp and source for Audio, Receiver and player for HT.

Then i decided to use the Audio speakers for HT because it's better than my HT speakers. I bought a center that is same line of my Audio speakers. Now my HT and Audio is sharing Front speakers but still separate amp/pre-amp and receiver. I just manually switch speaker cables when listening to audio and HT.

For music application, mas maganda ang SQ ng dedicated AMp/Pre-amp and Sub for music kesa using the Receiver and the sub connected to it. You can really hear the difference. I guess malaking factor yung Amp/Pre-amp and sub nung Audio setup kasi i'm using same speakers na except sub..

zram18 · « **Reply #3 on:** Mar 14, 2015 at 02:54 PM »

check first your needs, are you a music person or HT person. if budget permits, have a separate setup for music and and separate setup for HT because its definitely better (if you really want complete satisfaction).

tonedeaf · « **Reply #4 on:** Mar 14, 2015 at 05:57 PM »

My quandary as well =)

Stagea · « **Reply #5 on:** Mar 15, 2015 at 02:32 PM »

If you choose #1:

Steinway Lyngdorf makes compelling home theater gear capable of competing with fairly lofty hi-fi gear. Pricing kind of reflects the capability of their products though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKkJi3pe-pI
http://steinwaylyngdorf.com

Lyngdorf Audio's been making excellent direct digital gear for sometime now. It's great that their high end brand (Steinway Lyngdorf) is bringing this technology to the home theater.

dm1179 · « **Reply #6 on:** Mar 15, 2015 at 03:07 PM »

Quote from: speed_kills on Mar 14, 2015 at 02:36 PM

I was reading some online articles about "HT bypass" feature of some integrated music amps.

I'm curious, for both music and movie fans who have a home theatre system in a single room, how did you set it up for audio?

1. Use the AVR for both movies and music listening via the entire 5.1 system?

2. Listen to music via a separate integrated amp that powers your front 2 speakers and with that amp connected to your AVR's preouts via "HT bypass" feature?

3. Or, have a completely separate 2-channel speaker and integrated amp independent from your 5.1 system side by side?

I'm curious if #2 is more practical because that means you can invest in a really good speaker system that you can maximize for both movies or music.

Thanks!

#1 lang ang setup ko. One AVR and same speakers for music and movies. The number of speakers that will output sound depends on your source naman eh.

Kung 2-channel audio ang source (CD), by default the 2 front speakers lang ang tutunog, plus the subwoofer if you enable it. Pwede mo rin palabasin ang output to all speakers using Virtual Surround or Party mode.

Kung 5.1-channel audio ang source (Bluray), by default gagana lahat ng speakers. Though may option ka rin to output to just the 2 front speaker using Stereo mode.

Lahat naman yan are discussed in the User Manual of your AVR.

If you have budget and room for more gears, then you can setup #2 and #3.

speed_kills · « **Reply #7 on:** Mar 15, 2015 at 03:43 PM »

Thanks sa mga replies sirs!

I'm still in the planning stages and although budget is not yet definite, I hope to have something good from the start for both movies and music in my small den

I'm thinking if I go for #2, I can invest in a very good matching front and center speakers for movies. Then use the stereo amp to power the L&R for audio listening only.

I've visited a few hifi shops recently and very noticeable pala yung difference when the same speakers are powered by a receiver compared to a dedicated stereo amp.

I also wonder if this setup will help the AV receiver's load since it needs to power less speakers (center and surrounds lang). Maybe I can just get a basic receiver with pre-outs especially it seems receivers get obsolete fast.

Anyway, it's just an idea and will be listening to more feedback from the experts.

dm1179 · « **Reply #8 on:** Mar 15, 2015 at 06:05 PM »

In addition to using setup #1, when listening to music I set my AVR to PURE DIRECT mode. According to the User Manual, what it does are:

- Provides a direct input-to-output path with minimal audio processing, bypassing any unnecessary stages for purest sound, and disabling additional stages that might possibly have an affect on sound quality.
- Front panel display and its driver circuitry are shut down.
- Analog video input/output switcher and processor is disabled.

dm1179 · « **Reply #9 on:** Mar 15, 2015 at 06:09 PM »

Quote from: speed_kills on Mar 15, 2015 at 03:43 PM

I've visited a few hifi shops recently and very noticeable pala yung difference when the same speakers are powered by a receiver compared to a dedicated stereo amp.

Same brand ba yung receiver at stereo amp na pinakinggan mo? Naka-PURE DIRECT mode ba yung receiver?
Noticeable talaga ang difference kung different brands of equipment. Tapos kung naka-ON pa ang DSP ng receiver, maiiba rin ang sound signature.

Oldboyracer · « **Reply #10 on:** Mar 16, 2015 at 09:34 AM »

Quote from: speed_kills on Mar 14, 2015 at 02:36 PM

I was reading some online articles about "HT bypass" feature of some integrated music amps.

I'm curious, for both music and movie fans who have a home theatre system in a single room, how did you set it up for audio?

1. Use the AVR for both movies and music listening via the entire 5.1 system?

2. Listen to music via a separate integrated amp that powers your front 2 speakers and with that amp connected to your AVR's preouts via "HT bypass" feature?

3. Or, have a completely separate 2-channel speaker and integrated amp independent from your 5.1 system side by side?

I'm curious if #2 is more practical because that means you can invest in a really good speaker system that you can maximize for both movies or music.

Thanks!

The ideal situation is 3 + a separate room as the acoustic treatment will be different for audio & HT.
2 will give you the best of both worlds but any acoustic treatment would have to be more carefully decided on. Back in the UK I built my HT system around my audio system, pre out from the AVR to drive the main fronts when switched to HT input, CD, TT & Music Server connected to the pre amp. If you go down this route with either an integrated or pre/amp separates make sure there enough inputs for your gears +1 for the AVR. This way only the DVD player will be inputted to the AVR & you will not have to worry about 'HT bypass' or 'pure direct' etc.

Blackstar · « **Reply #11 on:** Mar 26, 2015 at 05:39 PM »

can i run two speaker cables to my fronts? one connected to my integrated amp (for music) and the other connected to my a/v reciever (for HT) without using an amp/speaker switcher?

zram18 · « **Reply #12 on:** Mar 26, 2015 at 07:37 PM »

sir, with due respect, i think your question is not related to the topic anymore which is: AVR or AVR/integ amp combo to listen to music.

maybe its better if you start or make a new thread out of your question. just my suggestion po

Courage · « **Reply #13 on:** Mar 26, 2015 at 08:55 PM »

Quote from: Blackstar on Mar 26, 2015 at 05:39 PM

can i run two speaker cables to my fronts? one connected to my integrated amp (for music) and the other connected to my a/v reciever (for HT) without using an amp/speaker switcher?

Brader.. delikado ata yan... Kaya ako, manual na pag move ng cables. Tanggal kabit when switching to Audio Setup and HT setup..

pchin · « **Reply #14 on:** Mar 27, 2015 at 04:16 PM »

Quote from: Blackstar on Mar 26, 2015 at 05:39 PM

can i run two speaker cables to my fronts? one connected to my integrated amp (for music) and the other connected to my a/v reciever (for HT) without using an amp/speaker switcher?

As bro Courage mentioned, you will have to do it manually which is very inconvenient. Using an amp/speaker switcher will solve all your hassle. Currently I'm using one.

Quote from: meat_eater on Mar 14, 2015 at 02:43 PM

You can use your fronts with another amp+preamp combo/Integrated amp and just switch banana plugs, or use a dedicated amp switcher.

I suggest dedicated sources as well, so CDP/DAC/TT for audio connected to your pre amp or integrated.

BDP/Gaming console/sat box connected to your AVR.

That way, you have 2 good systems utilizing the same fronts.

Since you will be using the same fronts, make sure you get a GOOD one to start with.

My setup is similar to that. Integrated amp + AV receiver > Amplifier switcher > Front speakers.

cm8 · « **Reply #15 on:** Mar 27, 2015 at 05:25 PM »

Quote from: Blackstar on Mar 26, 2015 at 05:39 PM

can i run two speaker cables to my fronts? one connected to my integrated amp (for music) and the other connected to my a/v reciever (for HT) without using an amp/speaker switcher?

I did this in the past. Just make sure that only one amp (AVR OR Integrated) is powered on at any time. I've read somewhere in this forum that having two amps powered on while connected to a single pair of speakers will result in equipment failure, to say the least. Needless to say this is not recommended.

Although, like I said, I did this in the past. With Wharfe Diamonds as fronts, I wired my AVR to the LF binding posts and my Integrated to the HF binding posts. I then left the jumpers attached to the speaker posts. Depending on my mood, I would simply just turn on the amp that I was gonna use.

My fail safe at that time was that my power strip outlets were enough for all my gears except for one. So that when I'm listening, one component is always left unplugged. All my sources were "permanently" plugged in. I would then just alternate the AVR and Integrated plugs on one outlet. If my AVR is plugged in, the Integrated is unplugged, and vice versa.

Hope this helps.

On the TS' topic:

This is what I did in the past. I still have just one pair of speakers both for HT and Music. My video sources are connected to the AVR, then AVR pre-out's to an Integrated amp. Although, my pure music sources are connected directly to the Integrated. If HT, I switch on both amps. I just choose the input wherein my HT pre-outs are connected. When listening to music, AVR is off. Only the Integrated is powered on.

markcrenz · « **Reply #16 on:** Mar 27, 2015 at 07:25 PM »

All are good options. Your choice will depend heavily on how much you want to and can spend for audio quality.

1. Use the AVR for both movies and music listening via the entire 5.1 system?

2. Listen to music via a separate integrated amp that powers your front 2 speakers and with that amp connected to your AVR's preouts via "HT bypass" feature?

3. Or, have a completely separate 2-channel speaker and integrated amp independent from your 5.1 system side by side?

4. Dedicated stereo rig in a dedicated room.

5. Your own studio or concert hall that can accommodate bands and singers. <<-- Nelsondeleon's setup

markcrenz · « **Reply #17 on:** Mar 27, 2015 at 07:28 PM »

Quote from: pchin on Mar 27, 2015 at 04:16 PM

As bro Courage mentioned, you will have to do it manually which is very inconvenient. Using an amp/speaker switcher will solve all your hassle. Currently I'm using one.

My setup is similar to that. Integrated amp + AV receiver > Amplifier switcher > Front speakers.

Great idea! Where can I get that switcher?

Courage · « **Reply #18 on:** Mar 27, 2015 at 10:57 PM »

Quote from: markcrenz on Mar 27, 2015 at 07:28 PM

Great idea! Where can I get that switcher?

I know a very great guy whi makes them he he he..

Blackstar · « **Reply #19 on:** Mar 28, 2015 at 04:02 AM »

Thanks for all the inputs/insights on this concern guys! This is what makes this community awesome. There's always someone ready to lend a helping hand. Right now I'm leaning towards bro cmagalona's approach:

Quote from: cmagalona on Mar 27, 2015 at 05:25 PM

This is what I did in the past. I still have just one pair of speakers both for HT and Music. My video sources are connected to the AVR, then AVR pre-out's to an Integrated amp. Although, my pure music sources are connected directly to the Integrated. If HT, I switch on both amps. I just choose the input wherein my HT pre-outs are connected. When listening to music, AVR is off. Only the Integrated is powered on.

Apologies to the TS if this has been OT. Just thought it was still somewhat related (in my opinion at least.)

bhenard · « **Reply #20 on:** Mar 29, 2015 at 08:31 AM »

3. Or, have a completely separate 2-channel speaker and integrated amp independent from your 5.1 system side by side

separate speaker and Integ amp(for music) to HT set up but of same acoustic treatment,..wala pambili ng isa pang room eh.

PSB T6 tower speaker ang pang music ko,the rest..for HT na.(yung pang rear ko nasa harap din $:-\$ )

kranoz · « **Reply #21 on:** Mar 29, 2015 at 09:39 AM »

^nice setup sir

zram18 · « **Reply #22 on:** Mar 29, 2015 at 01:47 PM »

parang nasa harap na yata lahat sir.

based on the reflections sa tv though medyo malabo, parang may space pa sa likod for the rear speakers.

tonedeaf · « **Reply #23 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 06:33 AM »

Can you guys explain why it's better to have a separate amp for music, instead of just using an AVR?

1. Isn't the purpose of an amp merely to power speakers? Wouldn't that be solved if one just buys mid to high end AVR instead of entry level?
2. Di ba the stereo amps don't have room correction (like audyssey)? Also, they don't have DSPs, just "pure direct"? Why is this a good thing? Isn't it better to make full use of Audyssey and just use" music" mode when listening to music via an AVR?

sientobente · « **Reply #24 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 07:28 AM »

^ An AVR's 100wpc rating won't ever match the strength of a dedicated stereo amp's 100wpc. You would notice it specially in hard-to-drive speakers. Just an example, using my PSB T6, my 50wpc NAD integrated amp outperforms my 100wpc Onkyo AVR in music in almost all aspects. NAD sounded more powerful, balanced and musical, while the Onkyo amp sounded artificial.

Using an AVR's preamp section isn't really the way to go. The preamp is really important because in my experience, it influences majority of the sonic character of your equipment. Doing direct mode does not help much, because it leaves you again with that measly current coming from the AVR and it forces your player to be the preamp.

In response to #2, if the genre you listen to are contemporary music like RnB , One Direction or Justin Beiber, playing off music through the AVR should suffice. For critical listening, the image should always be infront because the singer should always be there not going around the room unless the image being projected was a cabaret or a gentleman's club in Cubao. Proper toe-in and optimizing the speaker distance takes care of that time alignment "feature" Audyssey gives you. We also play music true to the way how it is recorded, having a DSP, just colors the sound. It has to be played as is, which actually made a lot of amp manufacturers skip tone controls. Still got something to say but I got a mental block from the lack of sleep I got A/B-ing DACs hehe...

markcrenz · « **Reply #25 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 08:09 AM »

Porsche for you, minivan for your family

tonedeaf · « **Reply #26 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 09:29 AM »

Thanks sientobente.

I've been on the fence about this for a while now. Everytime I say that I will buy a stereo amp, I keep ending up thinking I should just get a nicer AVR so my set up does not have to be complicated.

Courage · « **Reply #27 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 09:39 AM »

Quote from: tonedeaf on Jun 07, 2015 at 09:29 AM

Thanks sientobente.

I've been on the fence about this for a while now. Everytime I say that I will buy a stereo amp, I keep ending up thinking I should just get a nicer AVR so my set up does not have to be complicated.

In my setup, i have compared so many times my AVR vs my dedicated Stereo setup using same speakers/same source/same content/ both calibrated to match SPL. Kahit ano gawin ko changes sa AVR, mas natural and mas maganda ang tunog sa dedicated stereo when it comes to music. I felt the AVR's output too processed even in pure direct. Even with the Addition of power amp to the AVR which makes it a amp/preamp setup to match the amp-preamp of the stereo, iba pa rin talaga tunog ng Stereo setup ko..

I'm not sure maybe its because iba talaga tunog ng Yamaha AVR vs NAD. Siguro kung NAD din ang AVR ko to match the NAD stereo setup mas maganda ang comparison and mas malalaman talaga kung totoo nga na mas maganda ang dedicated vs AVR for stereo music listening..

ndotcom · « **Reply #28 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 09:56 AM »

What if the other way around, use a stereo preamp tube or solidstate connected to AVR? Basically using the AVR as power amp is this possible, am outdated na kasi sa mga AVRs.

Courage · « **Reply #29 on:** Jun 07, 2015 at 10:07 AM »

Quote from: ndotcom on Jun 07, 2015 at 09:56 AM

What if the other way around, use a stereo preamp tube or solidstate connected to AVR? Basically using the AVR as power amp is this possible, am outdated na kasi sa mga AVRs.

I guess talagang sa Pre-Amp section magkakatalo right? Mas noticeable ang diff pag magpalit ng pre-amp right?

i guess one good thing to try is try to use my NAD Pre-amp and make my AVR as power amp only... Hmmmmm.. Isang magandang testing to pag walang magawa.. he he he maybe one of these days..