Topic: PROVING GOD WITHOUT THE BIBLE

[barrister]

Hindi na kaya OT tayong lahat? Haha!

Sa akin ok lang pag medyo malamig na ang thread.

Kasi pag malamig na, it's either allow some OT, or watch the thread die.

[majoe]

Sa akin ok lang pag medyo malamig na ang thread.

Kasi pag malamig na, it's either allow some OT, or watch the thread die.

ok, my take sa topic na ito...

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[majoe]

Ah, narinig ko rin yon.

Parang ang sabi niya, 4th day lang ginawa ang sun and moon, so 4th day lang nagkaroon ng 24-hour day.

Therefore, days 1 to 3, hindi 24-hour days.  Hindi natin alam ang durations, pero puwedeng years, thousands of years, millions of years, etc. 

ganyan ba kay brod eli?

ang paniniwala ko kasi, 1st day ang sun, 4th day ang moon/visible stars.
ang 1 day sa creation is equivalent to 742million years. based on my calculation.

[Quitacet]

ganyan ba kay brod eli?

ang paniniwala ko kasi, 1st day ang sun, 4th day ang moon/visible stars.
ang 1 day sa creation is equivalent to 742million years. based on my calculation.

sa fourth day po kasi ito:

"God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars."

[barrister]

ganyan ba kay brod eli?

ang paniniwala ko kasi, 1st day ang sun, 4th day ang moon/visible stars.
ang 1 day sa creation is equivalent to 742million years. based on my calculation.

Yon ang naaalala ko kay Brod Eli.  Baka mali, hintay tayo ng member niya na magpaliwanag.

In the meantime, tignan natin ang Genesis:

First day:

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (Gen. 1:3-5)

Fourth day:

16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day. (Gen. 1:16-19)

On the 4th day, God made two great lights.  The greater light to govern the day.  That's the sun, of course.

Kung meron nang sun sa 1st day, dapat moon na lang ang ginawa sa 4th day.  Bakit sa 4th day, gumawa pa uli ng sun?

Walang sun sa 1st day.  Ano yung light sa 1st day kung hindi sun?

E di light na hindi sun... 

That's the only reasonable explanation.   On the first day, God created a temporary light that will exist until He creates the sun.  When God created the sun on the fourth day, the temporary light ceased to exist.

[bumblebee]

ganyan ba kay brod eli?

ang paniniwala ko kasi, 1st day ang sun, 4th day ang moon/visible stars.
ang 1 day sa creation is equivalent to 742million years. based on my calculation.

Curious, how did you get 742 million?

[barrister]

Before the end of this year, many significant events are predicted.  The great world economic collapse which leads to ONE WORLD CURRENCY and financial market system.  And the contact (even possible war) with aliens,  the coming of the alien God (matutuwa si dpogs dito) which is the agenda for project bluebeam, Jade Helm, HAARP, Chemtrails,  CERN, and Vatican's lucifer telescope paving the way for ONE WORLD RELIGION. All under the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just believing everything the bible says.

Ngayon ko lang nakita ito.
 
"Before the end of this year," ha.
 
Ipaalala n'yo sa akin, mga kapatid --- babalikan ko ang post na ito sa Jan. 1, 2016! 

[rulesmeister]

I'm putting this into closure today for my final argument of proving God without the bible. Mankind has been lied by the respected scientific community and has controlled everything, replacing the truth by their so called theories.
WE HAVE BEEN LIED BY U.N, NASA,VATICAN and every TOP LEADERS of the world!!! THEY HAVE HIDDEN GOD FROM THE PEOPLE !!!
What would you do if you found out that the earth is not a GLOBE but a VAULTED DOME? NOT A BALL BUT A FLAT EARTH. This alone proves that there is a God. And the truth can be found in the bible.

When you posted that you're "putting into closure" or simply put it, your "final argument", you were really convinced of your "scientific truth" of a flat earth.  And this scientific "truth" somehow leads up to proving god's existence without even using a single verse from the bible.

1st statement pa lang of a flat earth ndi mo nga ma-establish as a scientifically-sound theory, let alone conclude based on  your flat earth theory of god's existence.

Im no smart bulb, I guess you are. Now try using your car's GPS (works via muliple sattelite triangulaton based on a ROUND-EARTH principle). If it works accurately, then flat earth theory is merely a myth. If your car doesnt have GPS, then use your smart phone. In a flat earth, GPS might still work, but youre off by several hundreds of kilometers or even thousands of kilometers.

Lets say  NASA is lying & photoshopped pictures of round earth coming from them. Now, have you ever wondered INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION photos of earth are faked as well (International meaning not owned by US or NASA)?

Japanese unmanned spacecraft KONOTORI 5 docking at ISS, picture taken by a japanese astronaut Kimiya Yui. (hindi taga NASA).



Karen Nyberg, immediately tweeting via internet photo of Haiyan (Yolanda) the moment ISS passed over the super-typhoon.




Is the political opponent of US - the Russians involved in this elaborate hoax too? photo of Russian MIR before it pluges back to earth (remember Russia and US were of opposing viewpoint, wouldn't it be Russia's advantage to expose the hoax of their opponent?)
 

Or photo of Austrian daredevil Felix Baumgartner during his world record jump from space (hes' no astronaut, he's an adrenaline junkie.)
 

Ang dami nating pinagdaanan para magaging edukado: sometimes we're bullied, minsan walang pamasahe at naglalakad nalang pauwi, minsan walang baon, walang papel, minsan ndi pinapansin ng crush, walang pambayad sa tuition etc. Yet after all these decades we finally became Engrs, lawyers, doctors, seamen, bankers, businessmen etc. Then out of a sudden, while watching a 3-minute youtube video, we finally became convinced of some craziness and throw out our reasoning, our logic, our education just to prove something?

[ninjababez®]

Ang dami nating pinagdaanan para magaging edukado: sometimes we're bullied, minsan walang pamasahe at naglalakad nalang pauwi, minsan walang baon, walang papel, minsan ndi pinapansin ng crush, walang pambayad sa tuition etc. Yet after all these decades we finally became Engrs, lawyers, doctors, seamen, bankers, businessmen etc. Then out of a sudden, while watching a 3-minute youtube video, we finally became convinced of some craziness and throw out our reasoning, our logic, our education just to prove something?

yan ang nagagawa ng faith bro

[barrister]

I believe God exists, but I don't believe it's possible to prove God exists.  Therefore, my belief in the existence of God is based on faith, not evidence.

The better way to approach this is by way of probability logic.  Intelligent design theory points us to the possibility or probability of the existence of an intelligent designer.

However, this merely shows the possibility/probability of the existence of an intelligent designer.  It still does not prove the existence of God.

http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/

[dpogs]

I believe God exists, but I don't believe it's possible to prove God exists.  Therefore, my belief is based on faith, not evidence.

The better way to approach this is by way of probability logic.  Intelligent design theory points us to the possibility or probability of the existence of an intelligent designer.

However, this merely shows the possibility/probability of the existence of an intelligent designer.  It still does not prove the existence of God.

http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/

The TS just shows us the proof: by showing to us that the earth is flat.

What would you do if you found out that the earth is not a GLOBE but a VAULTED DOME? NOT A BALL BUT A FLAT EARTH. This alone proves that there is a God. And the truth can be found in the bible.

It is a major lie, NO BIG BANG, NO EVOLUTION.  THERE IS A GOD!

but then again, in reference to the Bible

[JT]

Good day to everyone.
 
I am inspired to prepare a course entitled "Proving God Without The Bible". Got an idea a very old outline and I would like to update it. But I need your help to comment or discuss regarding every outline that will be posting weekly starting today.

So here it goes...

Ok first and foremost, I apologize for the confusion made by this thread. Like I said, started when I got an old outline regarding this topic.   I got curious with it and hope to update or add relevant data through brainstorming using this forum.   I never said I'd be proving or I am able to prove but I do hope there are smart people here to help out and we be able to come up with something.

Of course,  part of the  outline is the intelligent design.  It seems a good argument but being refuted by science by their theories and so-called evidences.  Which leads me to research further and found these 3 controversial subject,
1). Earth does not spin
2). Earth is flat 
3). Earth has a firmament (layer/dome/vault) in the sky

In any research or brainstorming, we need to think out of the box and set aside any presets in order to discover something new.  So I'd like to encourage you to look into this compiled arguments vs the current theories with an open mind:

http://www.atlanteanconspiracy.com/2015/08/200-proofs-earth-is-not-spinning-ball.html

I think it is worth looking into this as there are accusations of NASA's hoaxes.  There are also growing support on this.  Recently, it has been brought up in the NZ parliament.

I hope you read the article before reverting back comments.

[JT]

I believe God exists, but I don't believe it's possible to prove God exists.  Therefore, my belief in the existence of God is based on faith, not evidence.

The better way to approach this is by way of probability logic.  Intelligent design theory points us to the possibility or probability of the existence of an intelligent designer.

However, this merely shows the possibility/probability of the existence of an intelligent designer.  It still does not prove the existence of God.

http://time.com/77676/why-science-does-not-disprove-god/

But if it can't be proven without the bible then we got an excuse. 

Romans 1:20  "20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE"

And this is what I hope this thread would achieve, trying to eliminate that excuse.  I'm not giving up on these people who do not believe.

[JT]

Very easy.

When Satan entered Judas, the plot to kill Jesus was already set by the Jewish leaders beforehand, and they were determined to carry it out.

There's no stopping the plot now, no matter what Satan does. 

If the course of events can no longer be changed, then anything Satan does afterwards will be an act of facilitating the inevitable, not an act that causes the course of events to be produced.
Judas was the treasurer of the apostles.  Judas loved money, and he was already stealing from the funds in his charge even before Satan entered him:

6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it. (John 12:6)
Therefore, Judas did not immediately turn bad only when he sold Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.  He was already bad even before the incident when Satan entered him.  The guy was so greedy, he just wanted more money...     

This is very unlikely sir.  Went thru these passages, Matthew 26:1-5; Mark 14:1-2; Luke 22:1-3 and John 11:45-57  and it seems Pharisees doesnt have a way to arrest Jesus  especially  in public.  Then Satan to made a way by using Judas so that they can arrest Jesus privately.  And I think it's not Judas plan from the very beginning,  then he would have plan the betrayal ahead and also have not thrown away the money if completely motivated by greed.  So there is much stronger influence that made him betray and that I believe when Satan entered him.

Hindi na kaya OT tayong lahat? Haha!

Not completely OT.  Out of the conversations here, many thoughts came up to me.  For example, on why Satan will wage war are even knowing it will end as defeat.

Here are my thoughts on this:
Lucifer (later becomes Satan) was created as very wise and very beautiful being says Ezekiel 28:11-12  "11 Moreover the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 12 “Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “You were the seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty."

But then in v15&17, that wisdom & perfection got corrupted by iniquity and pride. Ezekiel 28:15  "15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you." Ezekiel 28:17  "17 “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground,I laid you before kings,That they might gaze at you."

So when Lucifer becomes Satan, He may still be an intelligent being but no longer wise. We know there is a difference between intelligence and wisdom.  Satan knows the prophecy but makes unwise decisions and foolish actions. 

The truth is, you may have memorize and know all the verses in the bible yet you can still be outwit  by someone who knows little or with just few verses but with the wisdom of God.

For a long time,  we have been looking at convincing unbeliever's with the Intelligent Design or Designer. And it has not been very effective.  Why did I say that? Atheist are growing in numbers.  For those who evangelize, how many atheist you are able to lead to believe Jesus? I only got 2 out of many.

I had to travel to Auckland last Friday and came back last night only so I only manage to post today and think this through.  I got some new thoughts on this just now.  Its going to be the difference between Intelligent Design vs Wisdom of the Design ... but I'm still working on it.

[dpogs]

Creation already eliminated that excuse.

If atheist doesnt believe in God even though they know the possibility that there is Creator behind the creation, then they got no excuse.

We dont need to prove God's existence. The Creation took care of that already. Its up to us/them whether to believe it or not.

Kahit maipakita mo pa kung ano ang hugis ng mundo, kung umiikot ba ang mundo, if they dont believe in God maghahanap lang ulit sila ng ibang reason to deny God.

Kaya nga kailangan natin ng BIble, kasi kahit andyan na ang creation people will never recognize the Creator/God. Kaya nga may mga anito/anita/animal god kasi nakikita nila sa creation that there is a powerful God behind all things.


Romans 1:20-25 KJV

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


God reveals Himself through His creation and the Bible, if they cant believe God through His creaton and through the Bible, then the best thing you can do is pray that God touched their heart and lead them to salvation.

[bumblebee]

God reveals Himself through His creation and the Bible, if they cant believe God through His creaton and through the Bible, then the best thing you can do is pray that God touched their heart and lead them to salvation.

Parang kinawawa mo naman ang atheists/people belonging to non-Christian religions.

[DVD_Freak]

Parang kinawawa mo naman ang atheists/people belong to non-Christian religions.

Hindi ganun ang pagintindi ko.  Praying that God touch their hearts and lead them to salvation ay hindi naman pang aapi.  It's the same kind of prayer you give to people you care about who have strayed or lost their way.  Papano mo nasabing kinakawawa sila?

[dpogs]

Ok first and foremost, I apologize for the confusion made by this thread. Like I said, started when I got an old outline regarding this topic.   I got curious with it and hope to update or add relevant data through brainstorming using this forum.   I never said I'd be proving or I am able to prove but I do hope there are smart people here to help out and we be able to come up with something.

You should change the thread title if you're not proving God without the Bible or if you think you can't prove God without the Bible. The creation took care of that already.

Bakit di mo gawing thread title ang "How to introduce God without the Bible"

[barrister]

But if it can't be proven without the bible then we got an excuse. 

Romans 1:20  "20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, SO THAT THEY ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE"

Romans 1:20 is not saying that the things we see in nature are evidence for God's existence:

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Rom. 1:20)

This verse is not talking about the evidence for the existence of God.  It is talking about understanding God's invisible qualities.

In this verse, the existence of God is a given.  The existence of God is already known by the people who are "without excuse."

What have they clearly seen by way of understanding?  God's invisible qualities.  Not God's existence, which they already believe beforehand.  How did they understand God's invisible qualities?  They understood that from what has been made by God. 

Why say, "from what has been made"?  Why not say, "from what we see in nature, which may have been made or may have spontaneously existed"? Because they already believe there is a maker and the maker is God.  It's not a question of whether a creator exists; that is already the given premise for those people.

Those people, who already believe God exists, and already believe that God made everything, also clearly understood that God has eternal power and divine nature.

That is why the next verses start with the premise that those people already knew God:

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. (Rom. 1:21-23)

Why are they without excuse?

Because those people who already believe God exists, and already believe God made everything, who also already clearly understood that God has eternal power and divine nature, neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to Him; instead, they exchanged the glory of God for images.

They are without excuse for not believing in the existence of God?  No, pakahulugan lang ng pastor mo yon.  They are without excuse for exchanging the glory of God for images.


 
=========================================


 
Hebrews 11:6 says:

6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

The verse requires that we should have faith for two things:  (a) To believe God exists; and (b) To believe God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

If it were possible to prove God exists by way of evidence, then faith would not be required.  Yet the verse says we need faith to believe in the existence of God. 

Therefore, it is not possible to prove the existence of God by way of evidence, because if it were possible to do so, then we would not need faith to believe in God's existence. 

That is why Hebrews 11:3 says:

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

By faith we understand.

What do we understand by faith?  That the universe was formed at God's command.

Does it say "by evidence we prove"?  No, it says "by faith we understand."

Why would you need faith if that can be proven?  That is not correct.  You need faith because it cannot be proven.

That is why Hebrews 11:1 says:

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Faith is assurance about what we do not see.  That includes assurance in what we cannot prove.  For example:

Do we know that Jose Rizal existed?  Yes.  How do you know if you did not see or witness the events that happened before you were born?  Because they can be proven by evidence.  Do you need faith to believe that Jose Rizal existed?  No, all you need is evidence.

The bible says we need faith to believe God exists.  Why do we need faith?  Because God's existence cannot be proved.

[rulesmeister]

+4TB Sir Barrister, very well said.

[sirhc]

Bookmarking. (In case another flat earth theory and disproving round earth through discrediting momentum shows up)   

Just to chime in, the speed at which the earth spins is nothing to the speed our whole solar system, whole galaxy even, is hurtling through the universe.



Ano na lang kaya mangyayari satin if Newton's Laws of Motion were not in effect?
(I missed it by that much  )

[pTrader]

Romans 1:20 is not saying that the things we see in nature are evidence for God's existence:

20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. (Rom. 1:20)

This verse is not talking about the evidence for the existence of God.  It is talking about understanding God's invisible qualities.

In this verse, the existence of God is a given.  The existence of God is already known by the people who are "without excuse."

What have they clearly seen by way of understanding?  God's invisible qualities.  Not God's existence, which they already believe beforehand.  How did they understand God's invisible qualities?  They understood that from what has been made by God. 

Why say, "from what has been made"?  Why not say, "from what we see in nature, which may have been made or may have spontaneously existed"? Because they already believe there is a maker and the maker is God.  It's not a question of whether a creator exists; that is already the given premise for those people.

Those people, who already believe God exists, and already believe that God made everything, also clearly understood that God has eternal power and divine nature.

That is why the next verses start with the premise that those people already knew God:

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles. (Rom. 1:21-23)

Why are they without excuse?

Because those people who already believe God exists, and already believe God made everything, who also already clearly understood that God has eternal power and divine nature, neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to Him; instead, they exchanged the glory of God for images.

They are without excuse for not believing in the existence of God?  No, pakahulugan lang ng pastor mo yon.  They are without excuse for exchanging the glory of God for images.


 
=========================================


 
Hebrews 11:6 says:

6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

The verse requires that we should have faith for two things:  (a) To believe God exists; and (b) To believe God rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

If it were possible to prove God exists by way of evidence, then faith would not be required.  Yet the verse says we need faith to believe in the existence of God. 

Therefore, it is not possible to prove the existence of God by way of evidence, because if it were possible to do so, then we would not need faith to believe in God's existence. 

That is why Hebrews 11:3 says:

3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.

By faith we understand.

What do we understand by faith?  That the universe was formed at God's command.

Does it say "by evidence we prove"?  No, it says "by faith we understand."

Why would you need faith if that can be proven?  That is not correct.  You need faith because it cannot be proven.

That is why Hebrews 11:1 says:

1 Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see.

Faith is assurance about what we do not see.  That includes assurance in what we cannot prove.  For example:

Do we know that Jose Rizal existed?  Yes.  How do you know if you did not see or witness the events that happened before you were born?  Because they can be proven by evidence.  Do you need faith to believe that Jose Rizal existed?  No, all you need is evidence.

The bible says we need faith to believe God exists.  Why do we need faith?  Because God's existence cannot be proved.

Prang  may kulang sa  Heb 11  explanation mo.. paki  revisit at paki basa  uli yung post mo sir..

[barrister]

Depende sa taong kausap ko.  Kahit anong linaw ng explanation ko, laging may kulang yan para sa kanila.

Inaasahan ko na yon sir.  Tuwing may ipapaliwanag ako sa bible, laging may nagagalit...

OK lang yon, kanya-kanya tayo ng paniniwala.

[dpogs]

Depende sa taong kausap ko.  Kahit anong linaw ng explanation ko, laging may kulang yan para sa kanila.

Inaasahan ko na yon sir.  Tuwing may ipapaliwanag ako sa bible, laging may nagagalit...

OK lang yon, kanya-kanya tayo ng paniniwala.

di pa sanay sa iyo si sir ptrader

[barrister]

 

Dapat mabasa niya yung old posts ko.  Sabi ko, bakit ko pa ipipilit yung akin, hindi ka naman maniniwala.  Ganon din sa akin, bakit mo pa ipipilit yung sa yo, alam mo rin na hindi ako maniniwala sa yo...

It works both ways. One of us has to be wrong. 

But we honestly believed we were right.  Puro pagod nga ang inabot natin kakaintindi ng ng bible, pero in good fatih, mali pala ang intindi nang hindi naman sinasadya.  Sisisihin ba tayo ng Diyos?  I don't think so.

[pTrader]

Depende sa taong kausap ko.  Kahit anong linaw ng explanation ko, laging may kulang yan para sa kanila.

Inaasahan ko na yon sir.  Tuwing may ipapaliwanag ako sa bible, laging may nagagalit...

OK lang yon, kanya-kanya tayo ng paniniwala.

masama bang  ipareview  uli  sa iyo   yung post mo?

[barrister]

Before the end of this year, many significant events are predicted.  The great world economic collapse which leads to ONE WORLD CURRENCY and financial market system.  And the contact (even possible war) with aliens,  the coming of the alien God (matutuwa si dpogs dito) which is the agenda for project bluebeam, Jade Helm, HAARP, Chemtrails,  CERN, and Vatican's lucifer telescope paving the way for ONE WORLD RELIGION. All under the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, just believing everything the bible says.

Ngayon ko lang nakita ito.
 
"Before the end of this year," ha.
 
Ipaalala n'yo sa akin, mga kapatid --- babalikan ko ang post na ito sa Jan. 1, 2016! 

Before the end of this year.

Hindi ko pa nakakalimutan ito.... 

[rulesmeister]

^hehehe, walang kaibahan yang hula na yan sa Philippine economic collapse na sa Oct 15, 2015 daw dapat mangyayari. Ang tao nga naman... Ang daming manghuhula ng kong ano anong event. Sa Jan 2 '16 ko pa yan mababalikan, kasi ang hula ko may hangover pa ako sa Jan 1, 2016...

[dpogs]

One thins is for sure... maybe not this year but soon...

All under the ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT.

[pTrader]

Ang alam ko One World Of Nescafe ni Zsa Zsa Padilla..