Author Topic: High end Sound Card or Low end DAC (Read 9376 times)

gutierrez · « **on:** May 04, 2015 at 06:32 PM »

I need your expert advise and help. I'd like to get your recommendation for PC audio use, is it more appropriate to get a high-end sound card like to one below or a low end DAC (the likes of super pro, smsl, etc.)?

The Asus Essence STX is at 6500, I think I can get a decent low end DAC at the same price or even lower.

Asus Essence STX

http://www.asus.com/Essence_HiFi_Audio/Xonar_Essence_STX/

Thanks!

xbase · « **Reply #1 on:** May 04, 2015 at 07:32 PM »

Quote from: gutierrez on May 04, 2015 at 06:32 PM

I need your expert advise and help. I'd like to get your recommendation for PC audio use, is it more appropriate to get a high-end sound card like to one below or a low end DAC (the likes of super pro, smsl, etc.)?

what kind of setup are you trying to accomplish? for headphone? for amp/stereo? it will be easier if you can elaborate...

rascal101 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 04, 2015 at 07:39 PM »

For me I would go with an external DAC using a linear power supply. This way the Digital to Analog conversion is external to the PC. And with the linear power supply you will have a rather "clean" DC signal (output ripple voltage is very low).

Using a sound card/DAC will mean input power to this device will be coming from the PC power supply which is switching type. Switching type power supplies excel with regulation and efficiency but output ripple voltage is a bit high. This is not as clean as the output voltage from a linear power supply even with a steep filter. This output ripple voltage from switching power supply has 2 components - output ripple from (1) AC line frequency and (2) switching frequency. Comparing to the linear power supply, it only has output ripple voltage from AC line frequency.

From the perspective of tweaking as it is not always easy to get what you are looking for, there are also more options with an external DAC eg external power supply, low jitter clock etc.

jcfernandez · « **Reply #3 on:** May 04, 2015 at 08:18 PM »

Im using the asus essence stx for three years now, been using it as a bridge to the rega dac (spdif) and very pleased with the sound. i have other external dac but i prefer the essence stx: clean, detailed, more musical

RXV · « **Reply #4 on:** May 04, 2015 at 08:26 PM »

Quote from: jcfernandez on May 04, 2015 at 08:18 PM

Im using the asus essence stx for three years now, been using it as a bridge to the rega dac (spdif) and very pleased with the sound. i have other external dac but i prefer the essence stx: clean, detailed, more musical

Sir, can you elaborate more? You have the Essence STX, but it is still connected to an external DAC (Rega DAC). So in other words, it is just bypassing the DAC of the internal soundcard (Essence)?

jcfernandez · « **Reply #5 on:** May 04, 2015 at 08:47 PM »

Yes. using it as a bridge -- to use the spdif of rega dac. Bought it three years ago for P7300, including shipping cost.Back then , i was using powered speaker and maganda na siyang tumunog. Honestly, i would always go for asus stx if digital setup, but thats just me

gutierrez · « **Reply #6 on:** May 04, 2015 at 10:38 PM »

Quote from: xbase on May 04, 2015 at 07:32 PM

what kind of setup are you trying to accomplish? for headphone? for amp/stereo? it will be easier if you can elaborate...

Amp to rca out of soundcard

gutierrez · « **Reply #7 on:** May 04, 2015 at 10:42 PM »

Quote from: jcfernandez on May 04, 2015 at 08:47 PM

Yes. using it as a bridge -- to use the spdif of rega dac. Bought it three years ago for P7300, including shipping cost.Back then , i was using powered speaker and maganda na siyang tumunog. Honestly, i would always go for asus stx if digital setup, but thats just me

Sir so bale optical out of rega to optical in of soundcard? So parang ma dosoble ang conversion, tama po ba?

rascal101 · « **Reply #8 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:21 PM »

I think he is referring to the SPDIF out from the sound card going into the external Rega DAC.

I do not think it is possible to perform double conversion unless you have an A/D converter or ADC. Normally DAC or sound cards do not have this. Test measurement equipment have this to be able to process analog signal and convert it to signal for use as readout in an LED or LCD display.

gutierrez · « **Reply #9 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:23 PM »

Quote from: rascal101 on May 04, 2015 at 11:21 PM

I think he is referring to the SPDIF out from the sound card going into the external Rega DAC.

Ok so if that's the case double conversion nga

rascal101 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:27 PM »

No SIr.

Multiple conversion will mean

D/A -> A/D -> D/A

Digital to digital processing is not conversion. It is just a form of encoding.

rascal101 · « **Reply #11 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:41 PM »

Quote from: jcfernandez on May 04, 2015 at 08:47 PM

Yes. using it as a bridge -- to use the spdif of rega dac. Bought it three years ago for P7300, including shipping cost.Back then , i was using powered speaker and maganda na siyang tumunog. Honestly, i would always go for asus stx if digital setup, but thats just me

My set-up here is

PC USB -> Musiland Monitor 01 -> Heavily modified SMSL SD-1955 (DAC)

gutierrez · « **Reply #12 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:44 PM »

So what kind of processing happens in the external dac if conversion occurs on the soundcard?

gutierrez · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:47 PM »

Quote from: rascal101 on May 04, 2015 at 11:41 PM

My set-up here is

PC USB -> Musiland Monitor 01 -> Heavily modified SMSL SD-1955 (DAC)

Diba musiland 01 is a dac as well? What made you decide to use another dac? Why not just the smsl directly to the pc via usb?

rascal101 · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:52 PM »

Conversion is not happening in the sound card because he is just using the sound card as a bridge. He is using the SPDIF out of the sound card going into the Rega DAC which accepts the SPDIF signal.

This is similar with using USB signal then using the Musiland Monitor for processing then going into a DAC. The Musiland Monitor is used to process digital signal that the DAC can process.

gutierrez · « **Reply #15 on:** May 04, 2015 at 11:59 PM »

How do you configure a soundcard to act as a bridge? Is it automatic when you use the optical out of the soundcard?

I have a similar setup before and there's a difference on sq when i connect an amp with built in dac directly to the pc via usb versus optical connection via sound card

gutierrez · « **Reply #16 on:** May 05, 2015 at 12:02 AM »

I apologize but i think im kind of confused. Since there are 2 dacs in the system (may it be both external or a combination of internal and external) how will you identify and control which of the dacs process the digital to anlog conversion?

rascal101 · « **Reply #17 on:** May 05, 2015 at 12:29 AM »

Sent you PM.

jjohnc · « **Reply #18 on:** May 05, 2015 at 01:57 AM »

DAC..

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #19 on:** May 05, 2015 at 01:59 AM »

Disadvantage of using an internal soundcard is that you have to run a long rca wire to your amp unless magkatabi lang siya. Shorter analog wires are preferred. If you plan to use an external DAC like Musiland

, you can run a long USB wire from your PC para shorter ang rca wire mo.

Plus it would also depend din on your preference kung ano ang better sounding for you.

jcfernandez · « **Reply #20 on:** May 05, 2015 at 10:13 AM »

Sorry for late response: marami na pala nagpost, sorry sa confusion.
My setup is: PC (asus stx soundcard) > Rega Dac > amp. I use the digtal out (spdif) of the stx soundcard to connect to the Rega Dac.
Comparing it with asus vivo pc (without the stx soundcard but with spdif out) connected to Rega Dac. And to my ears, the desktop pc with stx soundcard convincingly wins, the sound was fuller, more detailed, immediately noticeable is mas malakas tumunog stx soundcard. I compared it again to same Desktop PC (with stx soundcard) this time using a USB Dac and my verdict stays.
Again, my main DAC is Rega, its just a question of which PC has the cleaner, refined source. All I know is that the stx soundcard really complements my system. Pasensya na, hindi ko talaga alam yong mga conversion terms

jambam · « **Reply #21 on:** May 05, 2015 at 12:52 PM »

I see that your using the STX as a bridge from the PC to a dac..

There are other options should you wish to try, e.g. a usb async converter to spdif or to make it simpler as renderer where you can use a Arm based micro PC to act as your source w/ digital music to drive the Rega

JoeyGS · « **Reply #22 on:** May 05, 2015 at 04:22 PM »

The soundcard is just a means to direct the digital stream from the PC into the SPDIF output jack of the soundcard. It's still digital to digital. And the external dac who recieves the digital stream from the soundcard via SPDIF (coaxial connection) is the one that makes the digital to analogue conversion.

gutierrez · « **Reply #23 on:** May 05, 2015 at 07:12 PM »

Quote from: JoeyGS on May 05, 2015 at 04:22 PM

The soundcard is just a means to direct the digital stream from the PC into the SPDIF output jack of the soundcard. It's still digital to digital. And the external dac who recieves the digital stream from the soundcard via SPDIF (coaxial connection) is the one that makes the digital to analogue conversion.

So even if the soundcard has a DAC, there's no conversion from digital to analogue signal? What's the purpose of its DAC? So for the type of connection below the soundcard just passes through the digital signal to the external DAC?

PC (soundcard) -> Toslink connection -> External DAC - > Amp

Thanks!

Bemermeister · « **Reply #24 on:** May 06, 2015 at 11:35 AM »

I am also using an xonar essence stx soundcard as my dac.

Since you are using toslink, you are bypassing the dac function of the xonar and using the rega as dac.

You may want to compare the stx dac vs rega dac as to which one sounds better to you. I have compared the stx vs the fiio x5 as DAC and found the stx better with a wider soundstage and a warmer sound.

Please post results of better DAC

xbase · « **Reply #25 on:** May 06, 2015 at 12:12 PM »

Quote from: jcfernandez on May 04, 2015 at 08:18 PM

Im using the asus essence stx for three years now, been using it as a bridge to the rega dac (spdif) and very pleased with the sound. i have other external dac but i prefer the essence stx: clean, detailed, more musical

Sir, did u try between the coaxial and the toslink as output of stx to your rega? How does sound?

jcfernandez · « **Reply #26 on:** May 06, 2015 at 01:52 PM »

No. haven't tried yet the coaxial, only the spdif. I suppose all of the four dgital inputs of Rega have better sq than the usb as what the manual says. So , I want to know, based on the the resources at hand, what would be the best transport using the spdif in of Rega. The three subjects of comparison are 1) Asus Vivo PC which has spdif out but doesnt have stx 2) a desktop pc which has asus stx soundcard and 3) same desktop pc with (2) but the spdif out now is a USB dac (costlier than stx).

jcfernandez · « **Reply #27 on:** May 06, 2015 at 01:59 PM »

@Bemermeister
of course, the rega wins, iba na yon pricepoint ng Rega..
The three PC I have used have i5 and 4gb

jh@meeh · « **Reply #28 on:** May 06, 2015 at 02:34 PM »

http://www.sotm.sonore.us/SOtM3.html

Kung may USB DAC ka, eto magandang gamiting PC audio card.

Bemermeister · « **Reply #29 on:** May 07, 2015 at 08:17 AM »

How much of a difference can you hear between the tstx and the rega?

Is it easily discernable when you switch betweem DACs?