Author Topic: Another videoke question (Read 101699 times)

denber · « **on:** May 30, 2015 at 10:37 AM »

I started another thread na lang kaysa mag dugtong ako sa ibang videoke thread since ang question ko baka might be similar to others but not the same

My wife has been asking me kung pwede ba daw nya connect ang magic sing namin sa 2.1 hifi system ko but i told her na its a no-no daw na gawing videoke ang hifi. But I've read din naman dito sa pdvd na pwede naman mag videoke basta in moderation lang. Pwede kaya na bili na lang ako ng pang videoke speakers like konzert or crown and swap ko na lang speakers ko pag nag videoke na? instead of buying another amp+speakers for videoke. Any advice? tia

JojoD818 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 30, 2015 at 11:36 AM »

You can use your existing 2.1 hifi system but it might pain you to hear your system when someone's tries to hit some high notes or when the mic is having a bad day like being dropped and having feedback hehehe...

If budget permits, a separate konzert/crown/sakura amp+speaker setup would be best, but this takes space and all that but at least your 2.1 hifi system is safe from the tortures of videoke. The things you can do for a videoke setup is limitless but for a simple one, a cheap amp+speaker unit is a good alternative.

My kids love to sing, so I also made a videoke setup. I use a separate Phonic mic/line mixer, a 100-preset delay processor (I don't use the mic input and echo of my T40+ videoke player), a 3-band EQ, and a separate compressor/expander. The results are, if I may say so, excellent. Sa ganda ng kinalabasan madalas maghapon sila kung kumanta. :-P

nogo · « **Reply #2 on:** May 30, 2015 at 10:13 PM »

Quote from: JojoD818 on May 30, 2015 at 11:36 AM

You can use your existing 2.1 hifi system but it might pain you to hear your system when someone's tries to hit some high notes or when the mic is having a bad day like being dropped and having feedback hehehe...

If budget permits, a separate konzert/crown/sakura amp+speaker setup would be best, but this takes space and all that but at least your 2.1 hifi system is safe from the tortures of videoke. The things you can do for a videoke setup is limitless but for a simple one, a cheap amp+speaker unit is a good alternative.

My kids love to sing, so I also made a videoke setup. I use a separate Phonic mic/line mixer, a 100-preset delay processor (I don't use the mic input and echo of my T40+ videoke player), a 3-band EQ, and a separate compressor/expander. The results are, if I may say so, excellent. Sa ganda ng kinalabasan madalas maghapon sila kung kumanta. :-P

Hmmmm. Sir jojoD magkano aabutin kung magpagawa ng gear na yan? Hehehe

ti · « **Reply #3 on:** May 30, 2015 at 11:28 PM »

mga sir, since halos same kami ng dilema ni TS, and setup ko naman ay video player -> onkyo avr->AN Speaker.

naisip ko lang kung pwede o meron PA Speaker lang wherein yung mic ko doon naka plug.

At yung background music sa AVR lang. naisip ko para yung vocals s PA speaker lang po ?

oks din kaya yung ganon?

TIA

JojoD818 · « **Reply #4 on:** May 30, 2015 at 11:36 PM »

Quote from: nogo on May 30, 2015 at 10:13 PM

Hmmmm. Sir jojoD magkano aabutin kung magpagawa ng gear na yan? Hehehe

Kung yun videoke source ang kakabitan ng mic at may echo/reverb na then amp/speakers na lang invest niya. Eto kasi ginawa ko para sa mga anak ko ito, I put as much as I can to make their videoke experience enjoyable and maganda talaga boses... priceless mga yan hehehe.

Ang problema lang, kapag nasa labas sila ayaw kumanta sa mga videoke machines, naghahanap ng magandang mic/system. :-P

JojoD818 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 30, 2015 at 11:37 PM »

Quote from: ti on May 30, 2015 at 11:28 PM

mga sir, since halos same kami ng dilema ni TS, and setup ko naman ay video player -> onkyo avr->AN Speaker.

naisip ko lang kung pwede o meron PA Speaker lang wherein yung mic ko doon naka plug.

At yung background music sa AVR lang. naisip ko para yung vocals s PA speaker lang po ?

oks din kaya yung ganon?

TIA

Pwede, meron mga powered speakers sir na may mic input na direct. Ang nakikita ko lang naman problema dun wala ka delay processor at baka localized ang tunog pero nasa placement lang naman yan.

ti · « **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2015 at 12:06 AM »

Quote

Pwede, meron mga powered speakers sir na may mic input na direct. Ang nakikita ko lang naman problema dun wala ka delay processor at baka localized ang tunog pero nasa placement lang naman yan.

Salamar po sir. pero pwede po sana pa explain yung "delay processor at localized", ano po impact noon sa ganong setup.

Ang personal na pagkakaintindi ay yung sounds ng videoke sa AV lalabas then yung vocals ko sa PA. kung sa mga 12sqm na sala lang. Let say yung PA sa gitna lng Tower speaker na mga 3M apart. ano po kaya ang sound effect noon po.

Salamat.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2015 at 12:23 AM »

Quote from: ti on May 31, 2015 at 12:06 AM

Salamar po sir. pero pwede po sana pa explain yung "delay processor at localized", ano po impact noon sa ganong setup.

Ang personal na pagkakaintindi ay yung sounds ng videoke sa AV lalabas then yung vocals ko sa PA. kung sa mga 12sqm na sala lang. Let say yung PA sa gitna lng Tower speaker na mga 3M apart. ano po kaya ang sound effect noon po.

Salamat.

What I mean is wala ka magiging echo/reverb kung sa mga powered speakers ka magkakabit ng mic mo sir. Localized is you know the vocals would be coming from that speakers only, unless you do some arranging the music accompaniment coming from the AV may not blend well with the vocals coming from the powered speaker.

Sa studio at concert gigs ginagawa din po yan para sa monitors ng artists kung saan vocals lang ang lalabas pero may mixdown pa din sa main mix papunta sa distribution speakers.

ti · « **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2015 at 12:27 AM »

Quote

What I mean is wala ka magiging echo/reverb kung sa mga powered speakers ka magkakabit ng mic mo sir. Localized is you know the vocals would be coming from that speakers only, unless you do some arranging the music accompaniment coming from the AV may not blend well with the vocals coming from the powered speaker.

Sa studio at concert gigs ginagawa din po yan para sa monitors ng artists kung saan vocals lang ang lalabas pero may mixdown pa din sa main mix papunta sa distribution speakers.

Maraming salamat sir, naliwanagan na po ako. hehehe

denber · « **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2015 at 07:54 AM »

thanks sir jojod818. I'll buy a separate amp+speaker na lang. Parang di rin kakayanin siguro ng budget ko yung videoke setup nyo

I saw sa konzert amp+speaker worth 11k and ok din sa wifey ang price hehehehe

JojoD818 · « **Reply #10 on:** Jun 01, 2015 at 02:28 PM »

Quote from: denber on May 31, 2015 at 07:54 AM

thanks sir jojod818. I'll buy a separate amp+speaker na lang. Parang di rin kakayanin siguro ng budget ko yung videoke setup nyo I saw sa konzert amp+speaker worth 11k and ok din sa wifey ang price hehehehe

you're welcome sir, checkout the amps from sakura and concert, they also have matching speakers available. do stay away from sakura's av200t, hindi ok pang videoke yan umuusok. yun mga 7-series nila or those used inside for rent videoke machines are the best choice. tama mga 11K sir sawa ka na maghapon diyan kantahan.

kaya mo naman yun sir unti-unti lang kagaya ng ginawa ko, iba ang experience kapag naka mixer with individual mic EQs and compressors. ang problema lang baka hindi ka na kumanta sa ibang bahay.

since you are into the hobby of singing, another thing you should pay attention to is the microphone. cheap ones from Kevler and Trident can be had for less than 1K, stay away from those Yamaha, Shure, Audio Technica clones, walang kwenta yan.

if you have additional budget, get a Shure SM58, it's about 4K yata sa Audiophile... wag mo lang pagagamit pag nakainom na baka mabagsak lang.

TinkerTailor · « **Reply #11 on:** Jun 01, 2015 at 08:12 PM »

Sarap siguro kumanta sa videoke setup nyo sir JojoD818.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #12 on:** Jun 02, 2015 at 08:20 PM »

Quote from: bongkadi on Jun 01, 2015 at 08:12 PM

Sarap siguro kumanta sa videoke setup nyo sir JojoD818.

Sarap sir sa kumakanta, ewan lang dun sa nakikinig hahaha!

ti · « **Reply #13 on:** Jun 02, 2015 at 10:06 PM »

napadaan ulit....

Dati may konzert + Konzert Speaker na din ako. ayos talaga , mga 5 years ko din na nagamit.

then a classmate introduce me the world of tube amps and better speakers.

naengganyo ako so i end up buying AVR, tube amp at FS.

yung Konzert setup binigay ko n lang sa bayaw ko.

Pag nagka budget, baka bumili na lang ako ng PA speaker for vocal.

@Sir JojoD818

pero parang interesting yan mixer + equalizer setup nyo po.

Kung pwede po sana mabigyan nyo po kami ng reference or sample layout ng interconnection nyan para ma integrate sa katulad namin na may existing amp+speaker setup.

wala po ako talaga ako idea basta ang alam ko pa lang ay dapat ko protektahan yung FS kaya naisip yung PA for vocals but kung yung equalizer + mixer setup ay maliit lang naman yung footprint at kung possible mawala na sa picture yung PA speaker , mukhang oks nga yan

TIA

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #14 on:** Jun 02, 2015 at 10:33 PM »

Quote from: JojoD818 on Jun 01, 2015 at 02:28 PM

you're welcome sir, checkout the amps from sakura and concert, they also have matching speakers available. do stay away from sakura's av200t, hindi ok pang videoke yan umuusok. yun mga 7-series nila or those used inside for rent videoke machines are the best choice. tama mga 11K sir sawa ka na maghapon diyan kantahan.

kaya mo naman yun sir unti-unti lang kagaya ng ginawa ko, iba ang experience kapag naka mixer with individual mic EQs and compressors. ang problema lang baka hindi ka na kumanta sa ibang bahay.

since you are into the hobby of singing, another thing you should pay attention to is the microphone. cheap ones from Kevler and Trident can be had for less than 1K, stay away from those Yamaha, Shure, Audio Technica clones, walang kwenta yan.

if you have additional budget, get a Shure SM58, it's about 4K yata sa Audiophile... wag mo lang pagagamit pag nakainom na baka mabagsak lang.

May bagong labas ang Shure, mga PM series, may below P2k.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #15 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 06:53 AM »

Quote from: Nelson de Leon on Jun 02, 2015 at 10:33 PM

May bagong labas ang Shure, mga PM series, may below P2k.

Yup, but between the PM and SM series sa SM pa din ako that's why it's what I recommend. Well worth the extra cost. Kung mag PM series mas matipid pa mag Trident, same sensitivity and dynamic bandwidth lang halos.

Yun sukli may pambili ng upgraded disc ng videoke player.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #16 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 07:11 AM »

Quote from: ti on Jun 02, 2015 at 10:06 PM

napadaan ulit....

Dati may konzert + Konzert Speaker na din ako. ayos talaga , mga 5 years ko din na nagamit.

then a classmate introduce me the world of tube amps and better speakers.

naengganyo ako so i end up buying AVR, tube amp at FS.

yung Konzert setup binigay ko n lang sa bayaw ko.

Pag nagka budget, baka bumili na lang ako ng PA speaker for vocal.

@Sir JojoD818

pero parang interesting yan mixer + equalizer setup nyo po.

Kung pwede po sana mabigyan nyo po kami ng reference or sample layout ng interconnection nyan para ma integrate sa katulad namin na may existing amp+speaker setup.

wala po ako talaga ako idea basta ang alam ko pa lang ay dapat ko protektahan yung FS kaya naisip yung PA for vocals but kung yung equalizer + mixer setup ay maliit lang naman yung footprint at kung possible mawala na sa picture yung PA speaker , mukhang oks nga yan

TIA

This is what I use po...

It has a pad which you can use for low/high output mics, although it has phantom power I never use it since puro dynamic mics lang meron ako. There is a British type 3-band eq for the highs/mids/lows, a British type tone eq is a full-cut type eq where you can change the contour of each band or even fully cut it without varying the adjacent band.

There is also a 100-preset voice processor effects which I use instead of the built-in echo in the videoke player. My videoke player is connected as a line input that goes through a dedicated compressor, minsan kasi hindi pantay-pantay ang accompaniment, meron kanta na malakas ang background meron mahina, the compressor takes care of this.

The mixer has a send/return section for outboard effects, I use it to send the mics to a compander (compressor/expander) so that the mics are gated, pag mahina ang boses it compensates, kapag napalakas naman it compresses, so it doesn't make those nasty distortion sound. The blending is adjustable, it's up to you whether you like it wet or dry, the mixer has separate send/return settings for each mic inputs.

This is what I use for that... aside from the compression and expansion I was also able to squeeze in a BBE sonic maximizer inside.

Yun output ng mixer goes to a diy amp and blasts a diy'd MTM floorstander.

Hope this helps.

ti · « **Reply #17 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 08:25 AM »

Salamat sir.

pag aaralan ko po yan.

praktikal · « **Reply #18 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 06:16 PM »

on karaoke speakers naman:

kung ang room size is 14-20 sqm ano ang mas ok, 10" 2-way, 91dB or 12" 3-way, 94dB?

may mga nagsasabing overkill ang 12" sa ganung size kasi malakas nga daw pero hindi ba mas maganda sa karaoke kung may midrange?

para sa akin mas pipiliin ko ang mas malaki kung kaya din lang naman ng amp then hinaan ko na lang ang volume, at least sakaling gamitin sa mas malaking room o outdoor e hindi bitin.

ano nga ba?

zram18 · « **Reply #19 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 06:55 PM »

sir for me, choose the 12". i tested 10" and 12" karaoke speakers for so many times already.

yung 10", garalgal na ang tunog pag nilakasan at 3/4 volume unlike yung 12", mas maganda at suwabe pati yung kalabog. kayang kaya pa nya kahit sumisigaw na yung singer, or yung mga songs na need mo sumigaw para maabot ang tono. you cannot do that sa 10" because if you do it, distorted na po ang sound.thats based on my experience, i just dont know kung paano kayo kumanta basta ako meron songs talaga na need ko sumigaw para maabot yung tono,hehe. sa 10", laging pabulong ang kanta mo.

as a matter of fact, all commercial videoke uses 12" size woofers -not 10.

need mo nga lang mas malaking space because of its huge size.and just lower the volume.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #20 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 07:01 PM »

Quote from: praktikal on Jun 03, 2015 at 06:16 PM

on karaoke speakers naman:

kung ang room size is 14-20 sqm ano ang mas ok, 10" 2-way, 91dB or 12" 3-way, 94dB?

para sa akin mas pipiliin ko ang mas malaki kung kaya din lang naman ng amp then hinaan ko na lang ang volume, at least sakaling gamitin sa mas malaking room o outdoor e hindi bitin.

ano nga ba?

Hhmmm... ako gamit ko diy lang na D'apolito inspired MTM (midbass-tweeter-midbass). Believe it or not the midbass is just 6.5"

Quote

may mga nagsasabing overkill ang 12" sa ganung size kasi malakas nga daw pero hindi ba mas maganda sa karaoke kung may midrange?

Not necessarily. Yun naman 2-way ang cutoff ng crossover is different from the 3-way. So a physical midrange driver doesn't necessarily mean na mas ok ang mids nun.

JojoD818 · « **Reply #21 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 07:04 PM »

Quote from: zram18 on Jun 03, 2015 at 06:55 PM

sir for me, choose the 12". i tested 10" and 12" karaoke speakers for so many times already.

yung 10", garalgal na ang tunog pag nilakasan at 3/4 volume unlike yung 12", mas maganda at suwabe pati yung kalabog. kayang kaya pa nya kahit sumisigaw na yung singer, or yung mga songs na need mo sumigaw para maabot ang tono. you cannot do that sa 10" because if you do it, distorted na po ang sound.thats based on my experience, i just dont know kung paano kayo kumanta basta ako meron songs talaga na need ko sumigaw para maabot yung tono,hehe. sa 10", laging pabulong ang kanta mo.

as a matter of fact, all commercial videoke uses 12" size woofers -not 10.

need mo nga lang mas malaking space because of its huge size.and just lower the volume.

naku 6.5" lang drivers ko eh... pano na yun? baka mabasa ito ng anak ko ah...

praktikal · « **Reply #22 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 07:17 PM »

^ lalo na ako, 4.25" lang

Nelson de Leon · « **Reply #23 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 07:20 PM »

Quote from: JojoD818 on Jun 03, 2015 at 07:01 PM

Hhmmm... ako gamit ko diy lang na D'apolito inspired MTM (midbass-tweeter-midbass). Believe it or not the midbass is just 6.5"

Not necessarily. Yun naman 2-way ang cutoff ng crossover is different from the 3-way. So a physical midrange driver doesn't necessarily mean na mas ok ang mids nun.

Correct ka diyan tukayo. Proper implementation ang kailangan.

praktikal · « **Reply #24 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 07:32 PM »

Quote from: zram18 on Jun 03, 2015 at 06:55 PM

sir for me, choose the 12". i tested 10" and 12" karaoke speakers for so many times already.

yung 10", garalgal na ang tunog pag nilakasan at 3/4 volume unlike yung 12", mas maganda at suwabe pati yung kalabog. kayang kaya pa nya kahit sumisigaw na yung singer, or yung mga songs na need mo sumigaw para maabot ang tono. you cannot do that sa 10" because if you do it, distorted na po ang sound.thats based on my experience, i just dont know kung paano kayo kumanta basta ako meron songs talaga na need ko sumigaw para maabot yung tono,hehe. sa 10", laging pabulong ang kanta mo.

as a matter of fact, all commercial videoke uses 12" size woofers -not 10.

need mo nga lang mas malaking space because of its huge size.and just lower the volume.

pwedeng malaman ang mga brands pati ng amp?

zram18 · « **Reply #25 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 09:29 PM »

sir, usual videoke speakers with 12" used in the market today:

Konzert amp-Konzert speakers, or Sakura amp-Crown speakers. yan ang madalas nasa loob ng videoke machines na nakikita ko sa ngayon.

meron din Db Audio, BMB and Daichi, etc pero yung naunang dalawa daw ang mabenta.

shoktongxxx · « **Reply #26 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 09:32 PM »

ako sa videoke set up ko nung una yung X-10plus then rekta sa Konzert 502 amp and speakers ko is 10" na Konzert din..medyo sabog tunog.Then sinubukan ko isingit yung pre amp ko na Parasound sa set-up, KA-BOOM kahit anak ko natuwa sa SQ..sana magka budget para ma upgrade naman player sa Kumyoung.

praktikal · « **Reply #27 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 10:01 PM »

Quote from: zram18 on Jun 03, 2015 at 09:29 PM

sir, usual videoke speakers with 12" used in the market today:

Konzert amp-Konzert speakers, or Sakura amp-Crown speakers. yan ang madalas nasa loob ng videoke machines na nakikita ko sa ngayon.

meron din Db Audio, BMB and Daichi, etc pero yung naunang dalawa daw ang mabenta.

hindi dahil mabenta ay maganda. ang mga yan walang crossover. ang daiichi lang yata ang meron.

try mo yung kay anthony. gusto ko ring mapakinggan/

JojoD818 · « **Reply #28 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 11:10 PM »

Quote from: praktikal on Jun 03, 2015 at 07:17 PM

^ lalo na ako, 4.25" lang

Malamang tweeter pa lang yan?!

JojoD818 · « **Reply #29 on:** Jun 03, 2015 at 11:14 PM »

Quote from: zram18 on Jun 03, 2015 at 09:29 PM

sir, usual videoke speakers with 12" used in the market today:

Konzert amp-Konzert speakers, or Sakura amp-Crown speakers. yan ang madalas nasa loob ng videoke machines na nakikita ko sa ngayon.

meron din Db Audio, BMB and Daichi, etc pero yung naunang dalawa daw ang mabenta.

Yes I know sir, ang dahilan lang naman kasi kaya mabenta ang 12" kaysa sa 10" eh saktong sakto ang sukat ng 12" sa kaha ng mga commercial videoke machines. Ang tao kaso pakitaan mo ng machine na may 10" at 12" ang pipiliin niyan yun mas malaki ang drivers, kahit sino po puwesto yan ang sasabihin.

Pero tama din naman, kung kasya naman ang 12" at maganda ang kakalabasan ayos na yun.