Author Topic: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?  (Read 11914 times)

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Offline shrek7

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Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« on: Jul 03, 2015 at 12:25 PM »
Is laptop better than PC or the other way around when playing music via USB? May difference ba? How to maximize your laptop or pc as audio source? Any brand recommendation?

Offline Courage

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #1 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 12:36 PM »
Is laptop better than PC or the other way around when playing music via USB? May difference ba? How to maximize your laptop or pc as audio source? Any brand recommendation?

I have both as source, Dell SFF PC with i5 8 gig ram and Dell Laptop i5 8 gig ram. Both running on windows 7 only and no other apps installed. I see no difference with regards to SQ..
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Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #2 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 12:42 PM »
PC for me, fanless if possible. Masyadong cramped ang loob ng laptop and most parts are spaced too tight from each other. Aside from heat, jammed switching parts will create electrical noise & jitter.

Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #3 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 05:43 PM »
Thank you for your replies mga sir's, Iam just very curious, I have an HP notebook that I use for foobar 2k and spotify to play music via USB going thru my DAC. I am pretty satisfied already by the sound it produces. But curiosity kicked in, I tried a newer HP laptop with I7 processor which I use for office duties and there is a significant difference on SQ, giving a clearer presentation onf music, blacker backgrounds, better separation of instruments etc. so I was thinking if a better PC with separate fanless power supply would give a better SQ compared to a laptop. Is there someone here who have tried a PC with ultra linear power supply? I have read that it gives a better SQ than PC's with ATx smps power supply.

Offline Superman

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #4 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 06:23 PM »
Mini PC (ex. Intel NUC) and/or Mac Mini
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Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #5 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 06:40 PM »
Power supply is one part you shouldn't scrimp on, a fanless linear PSU will definitely improve its performance. But when I say fanless what I mean is not just the PSU but also the cooling fans for the CPU.

Fans are the main source of noise in the PC, although there are silent fans available in the market those will still produce noise and will only worsen in time due to wear & tear. Plus I read somewhere that the air coming from the end of the fan blades creates electrical ripples due to turbulence inside the case, I'm not sure it if there's scientific basis behind it but I read it on the internet so it must be true  ;D >:D

There are passive cooled cases specifically designed for HTPCs & audio PCs, google Streacom & HDPlex for starters. If you want a built unit google "CAPS PC". My advice; if you are serious in wanting to use a PC as your main audio transport, those off the shelf consumer PCs won't cut it. 


Thank you for your replies mga sir's, Iam just very curious, I have an HP notebook that I use for foobar 2k and spotify to play music via USB going thru my DAC. I am pretty satisfied already by the sound it produces. But curiosity kicked in, I tried a newer HP laptop with I7 processor which I use for office duties and there is a significant difference on SQ, giving a clearer presentation onf music, blacker backgrounds, better separation of instruments etc. so I was thinking if a better PC with separate fanless power supply would give a better SQ compared to a laptop. Is there someone here who have tried a PC with ultra linear power supply? I have read that it gives a better SQ than PC's with ATx smps power supply.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2015 at 06:47 PM by deist »

Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #6 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 06:49 PM »
BTW, JoeyGS is using CAPS PC for audio pc and it sounds really good, he said it is available locally thru Victor Sow. Sonically, it is simply miles ahead of my MBP which we used in head to head test and I'm pretty sure it sounds better than my DIY built i7 PC.
« Last Edit: Jul 03, 2015 at 06:50 PM by deist »

Offline Superman

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #7 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 06:51 PM »
BTW, JoeyGS is using CAPS ZUMA for audio pc and it sounds really good, he said it is available locally thru Victor Sow. Sonically, it is simply miles ahead of my MBP which we used in head to head test and I'm pretty sure it sounds better than my DIY built i7 PC.

Agree!

As what deist mentioned here, the power supply plays a key role...I recommend a linear power supply for make it "quieter"...
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Offline larokulit

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #8 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 07:03 PM »
Power supply is one part you shouldn't scrimp on, a fanless linear PSU will definitely improve its performance. But when I say fanless what I mean is not just the PSU but also the cooling fans for the CPU.

Fans are the main source of noise in the PC, although there are silent fans available in the market those will still produce noise and will only worsen in time due to wear & tear. Plus I read somewhere that the air coming from the end of the fan blades creates electrical ripples due to turbulence inside the case, I'm not sure it if there's scientific basis behind it but I read it on the internet so it must be true  ;D >:D

There are passive cooled cases specifically designed for HTPCs & audio PCs, google Streacom & HDPlex for starters. If you want a built unit google "CAPS PC". My advice; if you are serious in wanting to use a PC as your main audio transport, those off the shelf consumer PCs won't cut it. 




Lol!
I don't think it's the air but the motor since it's an inductive device. Plus, electromagnets are either electric generator or electric consumer.

Having said this, I would assume those smart coolers that change speed depending on temperature generate some electrical noise when slowing down, similar to regenerative braking in hybrid cars.
DIY fan...

Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #9 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 07:10 PM »
Great! we now have someone with technical background to enlighten us....

And your suggestion sir?


Lol!
I don't think it's the air but the motor since it's an inductive device. Plus, electromagnets are either electric generator or electric consumer.

Having said this, I would assume those smart coolers that change speed depending on temperature generate some electrical noise when slowing down, similar to regenerative braking in hybrid cars.

Offline tony

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #10 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 08:03 PM »
fans are noisy no matter what....
the best solution is water cooling,
the system can be put out of the way....
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Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #11 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 08:44 PM »
Water cooling is another option but there are 2 types:

1. With fan/s.


2. Without fan/s or radiator type




My only apprehension in this is reliability. Somewhere in your head there's the thought that there will come a time when the liquid seeps through the cpu.



Another option is passive cooling radiator, the best around is the Nofan CR-95c


The downside is it will require a big casing with very good convection cooling, look at how massive CR-95c is:

Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #12 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 08:54 PM »
While this is the Streacom fanless FC5 case:




Inside the FC5






Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #13 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 08:58 PM »
How Streacom's passive cooling works(from Anandtech):

The cooling solution consists of two components, the fins on the chassis and the heat pipes to take the heat away from the processor surface:



The chassis fins contribute to the cooling through convection by natural airflow. The heat pipes contribute through cooling by phase change, i.e, liquid water in the heat pipes close to the processor evaporates and moves towards the chassis fins where it condenses and gets transported back closer to the processor.


Offline larokulit

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #14 on: Jul 03, 2015 at 09:51 PM »
Great! we now have someone with technical background to enlighten us....

And your suggestion sir?


Nothing really.

Although OT, can we somehow utilize the tech being used in smartphones or tablets?
I mean... those devices can be as powerful as a PC or laptop but can survive without the need of a mechanical cooling mechanism.
DIY fan...

Offline dm1179

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #15 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 10:16 AM »
Fanless notebook would make a quiet dedicated music source. Example: MSI S120 to be released this July 2015.

11.6 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel TN display
Intel Atom Z3735F Bay Trail processor
2GB of RAM
32GB or 64GB of NAND flash storage
2MP front-facing camera
802.11b/g/n WiFi
Bluetooth 4.0
2 USB 2.0 ports
microSDHC card slot
mini HDMI port and headset jack
5200 mAh battery

http://liliputing.com/2015/06/msi-s120-is-a-small-fanless-notebook.html

There are other fanless notebooks but are more expensive. Example: Acer TravelMate B115P and Samsung ATIV Book 9.

Expect more devices to be fanless with recent release of Intel Core M processors with 4.5W Max TDP.
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Offline jh@meeh

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #16 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 10:50 AM »
Biggest problem with PC and Laptop is JITTER. Better invest on Asynchronous USB DAC with very low Clock Jitter and Regen Amber or SOTM tX-USBexp or JCAT USB Card. Much better too, if you use OS Windows Server 2012 R2 with Audiophile Optimizer.

http://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/tx-usbexp/
http://jplay.eu/jcat/
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 2015 at 10:58 AM by jh@meeh »
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Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #17 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 10:59 AM »
How Streacom's passive cooling works(from Anandtech):

The cooling solution consists of two components, the fins on the chassis and the heat pipes to take the heat away from the processor surface:



The chassis fins contribute to the cooling through convection by natural airflow. The heat pipes contribute through cooling by phase change, i.e, liquid water in the heat pipes close to the processor evaporates and moves towards the chassis fins where it condenses and gets transported back closer to the processor.


wow!! Ang ganda naman nito!!! Very sleek looking!!

Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #18 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:03 AM »
Biggest problem with PC and Laptop is JITTER. Better invest on Asynchronous USB DAC with very low Clock Jitter and Regen Amber or SOTM tX-USBexp or JCAT USB Card. Much better too, if you use OS Windows Server 2012 R2 with Audiophile Optimizer.

http://www.highend-audiopc.com/audiophile-optimizer
http://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/tx-usbexp/
http://jplay.eu/jcat/
I am already planning to buy the uptone regen amber, thanks for the links sir! So if PC's and laptop's problem is the jitter, would a regular laptop with regen amber and audiophile optimizer be enough/ better Compared to a thousand $$$ PC's with separate power supplies?
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:30 AM by shrek7 »

Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #19 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:39 AM »
Anong DAC mo sir? Asynchronous USB na ba? that's where you should start first.

I am already planning to buy the uptone regen amber, thanks for the links sir! So if PC's and laptop's problem is the jitter, would a regular laptop with regen amber and audiophile optimizer be enough/ better Compared to a thousand $$$ PC's with separate power supplies?

Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #20 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:44 AM »
Yes, i'm planning to DIY build one  ;)

wow!! Ang ganda naman nito!!! Very sleek looking!!

Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #21 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:48 AM »
Naku, di pa asynchronous usb DAC yung sa akin? What are the benefits po ba ng asynchronous dac?

Offline deist

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #22 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:55 AM »
Best in jitter reduction when using USB. Look for a DAC with XMOS chip, karamihan sa naglalabasang DAC ngayon yan na ang gamit na data transfer chip. Arguably the best in the market today.

Naku, di pa asynchronous usb DAC yung sa akin? What are the benefits po ba ng asynchronous dac?
« Last Edit: Jul 04, 2015 at 11:56 AM by deist »

Offline Gino

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #23 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 12:15 PM »
I use an old HP Mini 210 netbook. It has no fan. Expectedly, it runs hot. I've put cork legs in front. Along with the battery bump at the back, this lifts the netbook.

It is mainly used for Foobar 2000. It is my most revealing source right now. However my experience is limited by my modest equipment (ODAC). No claims here. It is just fan-less.

When it comes to processing music, the beefier the pc specs, the better. All resources should be dedicated to processing music. That said, my netbook is not ideal. But for simple cd rips, it does a very good job. Very clean sound heard from my iems and headphones.

Offline jh@meeh

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #24 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 01:56 PM »
I am already planning to buy the uptone regen amber, thanks for the links sir! So if PC's and laptop's problem is the jitter, would a regular laptop with regen amber and audiophile optimizer be enough/ better Compared to a thousand $$$ PC's with separate power supplies?

Most audiophiles considered everything in the chain as weakest link. I cannot say that regular laptop with amber regen/optimizer will be the end. Currently i'm using CAPS Zuma V3 with Paul Hynes LPSU, my Exasound DAC has LPSU too. Every part of the chain is really important.
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Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #25 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 04:36 PM »
Most audiophiles considered everything in the chain as weakest link. I cannot say that regular laptop with amber regen/optimizer will be the end. Currently i'm using CAPS Zuma V3 with Paul Hynes LPSU, my Exasound DAC has LPSU too. Every part of the chain is really important.
wow!!! Ganda!
I might go for regen amber, audiophile optimizer then will slowly upgrade computer/laptop hardware!

Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #26 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 04:41 PM »
Fanless notebook would make a quiet dedicated music source. Example: MSI S120 to be released this July 2015.

11.6 inch, 1366 x 768 pixel TN display
Intel Atom Z3735F Bay Trail processor
2GB of RAM
32GB or 64GB of NAND flash storage
2MP front-facing camera
802.11b/g/n WiFi
Bluetooth 4.0
2 USB 2.0 ports
microSDHC card slot
mini HDMI port and headset jack
5200 mAh battery

http://liliputing.com/2015/06/msi-s120-is-a-small-fanless-notebook.html

There are other fanless notebooks but are more expensive. Example: Acer TravelMate B115P and Samsung ATIV Book 9.

Expect more devices to be fanless with recent release of Intel Core M processors with 4.5W Max TDP.
thank you for the list of fanless laptops, this is a huge help for those planning to build their Audio Pc set up

Offline tony

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #27 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 04:45 PM »
i still keep my Creative Sound Blaster sound card.......:D
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Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #28 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 04:46 PM »
I use an old HP Mini 210 netbook. It has no fan. Expectedly, it runs hot. I've put cork legs in front. Along with the battery bump at the back, this lifts the netbook.

It is mainly used for Foobar 2000. It is my most revealing source right now. However my experience is limited by my modest equipment (ODAC). No claims here. It is just fan-less.

When it comes to processing music, the beefier the pc specs, the better. All resources should be dedicated to processing music. That said, my netbook is not ideal. But for simple cd rips, it does a very good job. Very clean sound heard from my iems and headphones.
mukha ngang this is the simplest way to go for people who are not techie enough to build their own server, specially for me!!!

Offline shrek7

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Re: Which is better??? Laptop or PC as audio source?
« Reply #29 on: Jul 04, 2015 at 04:51 PM »
fans are noisy no matter what....
the best solution is water cooling,
the system can be put out of the way....
mukhang fanless talaga ang kailangan sa system ko...