Author Topic: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)  (Read 14646 times)

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Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #30 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 05:50 AM »
GMRC na lang kasi dapat, wala nang relihiyon. ;D

(It's both a joke and serious opinion)

agree tayo jan, and john lennon to me makes more sense than pat robertson....

jim jones was one such devil bible toting more than 700 members to their death in guyana...
david koresh led his members to the inferno end in waco texas...
in the catholic church are embezzlers, pedophiles and what have you,
walang nakapagtataka doon, tao lang din naman sila...
yung mga taga iglesia ni soriano, inaakusahan ang mga taga iglesia ni manalo ng
mga krimen laban sa mga kasapi at di kasapi, pero kung susuriin ang kasaysayan,
wala yon sa kalingkingan ng ginawang mga krimen ng simbahang katoliko....
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:30 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline rascal101

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #31 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 08:40 AM »
It's true na kailangan natin ang kapwa. It doesn't follow though na kailangan natin ang religion para mamuhay ng matawasay at mapayapa kasama ng kapwa. Opposite pa nga eh. Yan ang point ni John Lennon.



May punto ko diyan ngunit ang relihiyon ang nagbibigay ng gabay sapagkat sa relihiyon may simbahan at ang simbahan ay samahan ng sumasamba sa Diyos. Sa ibang matatalino sa mundo, marahil hindi angkop sa kanila ang mga sinasabi ng iba't ibang relihiyon kung kaya't iniiba nila ang kanilang daanan (kalsada) angkop sa kanilang paniniwala. Ang masasabi ko lang doon ay, wala naman perpektong relihiyon dahil ang tagapangasiwa ay tao lamang na kumukuha ng inspirasyon sa Diyos. Pero kahit ganun pa man hindi rin maikakait na maraming nagagawang mabuti ang relihiyon. Nasa sa tao na iyon kung iiral ang pagtingin niya sa kabutihan na nagawa ng relihiyon o maling gawain ng mga tagapangasiwa.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #32 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 08:43 AM »
agree tayo jan, and john lennon to me makes more sense that pat robertson....

jim jones was one such devil bible toting more than 700 members to their death in guyana...
david koresh led his members to the inferno end in waco texas...
in the catholic church are embezzlers, pedophiles and what have you,
walang nakapagtataka doon, tao lang din naman sila...
yung mga taga iglesia ni soriano, inaakusahan ang mga taga iglesia ni manalo ng
mga krimen laban sa mga kasapi at di kasapi, pero kung susuriin ang kasaysayan,
wala yon sa kalingkingan ng ginawang mga krimen ng simbahang katoliko....

Dami kasi Katoliko kaya marami ring nagawa hindi tama. Pero ano ba dapat nating tignan ang ginawang kasamahan ng mga taong nasa Katolikong simbahan o iyung mga tamang turo ng Katolikong simbahan?

Offline leomarley

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #33 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 08:57 AM »
I can't follow a church that hasn't even paid for their crimes against humanity.

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #34 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 11:55 AM »
Dami kasi Katoliko kaya marami ring nagawa hindi tama. Pero ano ba dapat nating tignan ang ginawang kasamahan ng mga taong nasa Katolikong simbahan o iyung mga tamang turo ng Katolikong simbahan?

kung makikita mo na ang mga kagawad at namumuno ng
anu mang simbahan ay mga tao lamang at hindi mga santo,
madaling maunawaan ang mga nangyari......

si Kristo lamang ang dapat tignan...
yung mga kabuktutan ng mga taong simbahan napag-uusapan lang, hindi na dapat tularan...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #35 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 11:57 AM »
I can't follow a church that hasn't even paid for their crimes against humanity.

yes, i don't even recall if the catholic church ever apologized for the murder of our hero Dr, Jose Rizal...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline rascal101

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #36 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 02:49 PM »
yes, i don't even recall if the catholic church ever apologized for the murder of our hero Dr, Jose Rizal...

Hindi kasalanan ng Katolikong simbahan iyun. Kasalanan ng mga prayle na ginagamit ang simbahan para sa kanilang personal na kapakanan.

Bakit mo naman idinugtong na kasalanan ng Katolikong simbahan ito? Kung ganito rin lang eh di puwede nating sabihin na masama ang Amerika tutal sinakop tayo at kasalukuyang sinasakop sa ngalan ng negosyo. Eh paano naman pala mga Intsik na sinasamantala ang Pilipinas? Masama din sila. Huwag na tayong makipag negosyo dahil masama sila. Idawit na natin lahat ng Intsik.

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #37 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 02:56 PM »
Hindi kasalanan ng Katolikong simbahan iyun. Kasalanan ng mga prayle na ginagamit ang simbahan para sa kanilang personal na kapakanan.

Bakit mo naman idinugtong na kasalanan ng Katolikong simbahan ito? Kung ganito rin lang eh di puwede nating sabihin na masama ang Amerika tutal sinakop tayo at kasalukuyang sinasakop sa ngalan ng negosyo. Eh paano naman pala mga Intsik na sinasamantala ang Pilipinas? Masama din sila. Huwag na tayong makipag negosyo dahil masama sila. Idawit na natin lahat ng Intsik.

let me remind you that before the Americans colonized us,
the catholic church also exercised political powers...
again let me remind you that we are merely discussing history,
not for me to pass judgement on things past...
just to know that things happened in the past that young people today may never appreciate...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline leomarley

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #38 on: Aug 26, 2015 at 10:50 PM »
Hindi kasalanan ng Katolikong simbahan iyun. Kasalanan ng mga prayle na ginagamit ang simbahan para sa kanilang personal na kapakanan.


so the killing and persecution of scientists centuries ago were done for personal reasons and not mandated by the Catholic Church? ever heard of the Catholic Inquisition?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #39 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 07:00 AM »
so the killing and persecution of scientists centuries ago were done for personal reasons and not mandated by the Catholic Church? ever heard of the Catholic Inquisition?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

no, it was never the church itself, it was how the people in the church interpreted
what ought to be done at the time, those people held so much power that they
went mad by the powers that they had.....
thus, the things we see today happening in the INC for example is the result
of having too much money and power in their hands, what are they in power for?

remove the money and they will become meek as lambs...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline leomarley

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #40 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:02 AM »
But it still doesn't change the fact that it had the approval and endorsement  of the church.

"The Inquisition is[1] a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy."

It's not separate from the Catholic Church. It was an institution within the Catholic Church specifically tasked to combat heresy.

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #41 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:08 AM »
Hindi lang approval as in acceptance of what is already existing.  With official authorization pa, as in officially granting powers before the act is performed.

In the 13th century, the Pope himself issued a papal bull authorizing torture to extract confessions from heretics.

Official practice ang torture noon.  Hindi yan gawa lang ng mga masigasig na church members.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:12 AM by barrister »

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #42 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 10:23 AM »
But it still doesn't change the fact that it had the approval and endorsement  of the church.

"The Inquisition is[1] a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy."

It's not separate from the Catholic Church. It was an institution within the Catholic Church specifically tasked to combat heresy.

Yan nga ang sinasabi ko na the Catholic Church also preaches exclusivity in salvation.

Otherwise bakit nila ipepersecute ang kino-consider nila na heretics (Christians din who have different set of beliefs than RC) kung in the end pare-parehas din palang maliligtas?

ang problema lang sa marami, akala nila hindi ganyan ang doktrina sa RC kaya pag nakakita ng ibang exclusivity doctrine sa ibang faith, sinosolo daw ang salvation.


Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #43 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:16 AM »
But it still doesn't change the fact that it had the approval and endorsement  of the church.

"The Inquisition is[1] a group of institutions within the judicial system of the Roman Catholic Church whose aim was to combat heresy."

It's not separate from the Catholic Church. It was an institution within the Catholic Church specifically tasked to combat heresy.

yes, anything that the leaders of the church did back then is also the act of the Church...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #44 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:20 AM »
Yan nga ang sinasabi ko na the Catholic Church also preaches exclusivity in salvation.

ang exclusivity sa RC ay sa paniniwala na, "si Kristo ang daan sa Ama...." yung yon,
hindi ang pagsapi sa simbahan ng RC...

Otherwise bakit nila ipepersecute ang kino-consider nila na heretics (Christians din who have different set of beliefs than RC) kung in the end pare-parehas din palang maliligtas?

ang problema lang sa marami, akala nila hindi ganyan ang doktrina sa RC kaya pag nakakita ng ibang exclusivity doctrine sa ibang faith, sinosolo daw ang salvation.



kasi naman hindi na kailangan sabihin ng RC yan, sadyang napakaraming members na,
i remember na inutusan ni brother mike ang mga kasapi ng EL Shadai na maghakot ng at least 2 new member ang bawat kasapi....

ang persecution ay pakana ng mga namumuno....hindi aral ng simbahan yan...
wala sa kanila ang pangaral ni Jesus na ibigin ang kapwa...

eh yung Iglesia ni Soriano nga tatakutin ka rin, sasabihan kang hindi marunong makaintindi ng bible,
kulang na lang sabihan ka na bobo ka pag hindi ka umanib sa kanila...
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:35 AM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #45 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:29 AM »
Hindi lang approval as in acceptance of what is already existing.  With official authorization pa, as in officially granting powers before the act is performed.

In the 13th century, the Pope himself issued a papal bull authorizing torture to extract confessions from heretics.

Official practice ang torture noon.  Hindi yan gawa lang ng mga masigasig na church members.

dahil noong mga panahon na yon, merong political powers ang RC,
ngayon nila gawin yon, me kakalagyan sila...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline leomarley

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Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #46 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:32 AM »
Kasi self sustaining na ang CC kaya di na kailangan gawin yung style nila INS and El Shadai. Everyday may pinapanganak na bata after a few months binyag. Kaya ako pag nagkaanak di ko binyagan habang baby pa. I'll let him decide if he wants to join a religion or not pag malaki na siya. Binyag while infant or anything less than an adolescent is nothing short of child indoctrination.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:34 AM by leomarley »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #47 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 11:37 AM »
^kaya nga money making, KBL tiyak yan....
parang mineral water lang, meron at merong bibile...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #48 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 01:00 PM »
ang exclusivity sa RC ay sa paniniwala na, "si Kristo ang daan sa Ama...." yung yon,
hindi ang pagsapi sa simbahan ng RC...

Hindi official Catholic doctrine ang sinasabi mo na yan sir.

Mas maniniwala ako sa awtoridad Katolika kaysa sa opinyon ng miyembro.

Ang official Catholic Doctrine ay extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside of the church there is no salvation).

Eto ang paliwanag ng mga papa:

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 01:09 PM by barrister »

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #49 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 01:02 PM »
kasi naman mga lasing sa kapangyarihan ang mga otoridad na yan....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline barrister

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #50 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 01:08 PM »
Official Catholic doctrine pa rin hanggang ngayon ang extra ecclesiam nulla salus.




Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #51 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 01:11 PM »
masamang modelo ng religion ang RC,
ginagaya ng iba, hindi dapat pinaamarisan...

alam na nga nlang mali susunod pa..... >:(
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 04:44 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #52 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 01:36 PM »
Hindi official Catholic doctrine ang sinasabi mo na yan sir.

Mas maniniwala ako sa awtoridad Katolika kaysa sa opinyon ng miyembro.

Ang official Catholic Doctrine ay extra ecclesiam nulla salus (outside of the church there is no salvation).

Eto ang paliwanag ng mga papa:

“There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)

“We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)

"The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

This is correct.

ang problema, hindi alam ng myembro kaya pag nakakita ng ibang sekta na ganyan din ang belief, akala nila hindi ganyan ang sa kanila.


Offline rascal101

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #53 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 02:44 PM »
so the killing and persecution of scientists centuries ago were done for personal reasons and not mandated by the Catholic Church? ever heard of the Catholic Inquisition?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Under the circumstances and prevalent mentality at the time, I believe it was the "right" decision by the Catholic hierarchy. Good decision making I believe is not necessarily about being "right" but being tenable, being able to live with it and being able to implement it.
« Last Edit: Aug 27, 2015 at 02:46 PM by rascal101 »

Offline leomarley

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #54 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 02:46 PM »
Right para sa kanila. Bad for humanity.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #55 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 02:47 PM »
You are right. This is how the world works.

Offline majoe

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #56 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 03:49 PM »
Official Catholic doctrine pa rin hanggang ngayon ang extra ecclesiam nulla salus.





di pa ba superceded yan sa mga bagong pronouncement ng pope?

Offline Quitacet

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #57 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 03:57 PM »
di pa ba superceded yan sa mga bagong pronouncement ng pope?

"Necessary for Salvation

As we have seen, God introduced salvation to the world through his chosen people, the Jews. God’s revelation to the Jews found its fulfillment in Christ, the Messiah, who established the Catholic Church. The grace necessary for salvation continues to come from Christ, through his Church. Those who innocently do not know and embrace this might still attain salvation but those who knowingly and willingly choose to reject it, reject salvation on God’s terms.

The Catechism (once again quoting Lumen Gentium) summarizes all this as follows:

    Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. (CCC 846)"

http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/what-no-salvation-outside-the-church-means


exactly how other sects teach their own exclusivity doctrine.

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #58 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 04:43 PM »
di pa ba superceded yan sa mga bagong pronouncement ng pope?

never in recent memory have i heard anyone from the RC church mention that only catholics will be saved..
in all the masses i have been to, it was never mentioned....
if you are attending masses, you will know the doctrine of the church being recited in the mass itself...

whoever wrote that only catholics will be saved must be lunatics....
salvation is open to all that recognized Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour,
the Messiah that is the only true path to our Father in Heaven...
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: Televangelists (Airplanes and $$$)
« Reply #59 on: Aug 27, 2015 at 04:46 PM »
Right para sa kanila. Bad for humanity.

wrong is wrong no matter what time.....
very clear from Moses' commandments, "thou shall not kill"....
that is unforgivable......mananagot sila sa Diyos....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....