Author Topic: amplifier wpc and power consumption  (Read 1722 times)

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Offline luis

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amplifier wpc and power consumption
« on: Sep 08, 2016 at 09:29 AM »
good morning sirs / gurus.

i noticed there are amps that wpc is not commensurate on power consumption.

marantz pm6006 60 wpc/4 ohms vs power consumption of 395 watts
cayin h100 100 wpc (whether 8 or 4 ohms) vs power consumption of 400 watts

as suppose to

marantz pm7005 wpc 80/4 ohms vs power consumption of 170 watts
nad375bee 150 wpc (whether 8 or 4 ohms) vs power consumption of 290 watts

ano po ang paliwanag dun sa dalawang modelo sa taas?  di kaya understated yung declared wpc?  if i may say, they are more of the exceptions than the rule.

feedbacks will be highly educational and appreciated.

 ;D

Offline edison

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #1 on: Sep 08, 2016 at 10:50 AM »
Hi current amps that can easily drive difficult speaker load like 4 ohms are those amp you classified in group 1, I guess..(because those 4 ohms speaker can go as low as 2 ohms in actual operation depending on the program material...ex. music with heavy bass)

Offline jjlovemusic

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #2 on: Sep 08, 2016 at 11:12 AM »
Hi bro, I'm no an expert but I guess different components/build/circuitry defined the max power consumption of those amps. Parang mga PC build, unless there are power-saving components used on it.

Nagmamarunong,
JJ  ;D
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Offline rascal101

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #3 on: Sep 08, 2016 at 11:23 AM »
60Wpc, 100Wpc etc relates to the output power.

Power consumption relates to the input power.

Due to losses, the input power does not match the output power. For amplifiers using linear power supply, there is quite a big gap between the input power and output power due to inefficiency of linear power supplies - typically in the 40+% to 50+%. This means for an input power of 100W it can only deliver 50W to the actual amplifier section or circuitry of the amplifier. Then, adding losses on the amplifier section efficiency can go down further.

These losses typically translate to heat with more inefficient amplifiers being hotter or having much more massive heatsinks to properly dissipate heat.

good morning sirs / gurus.

i noticed there are amps that wpc is not commensurate on power consumption.

marantz pm6006 60 wpc/4 ohms vs power consumption of 395 watts
cayin h100 100 wpc (whether 8 or 4 ohms) vs power consumption of 400 watts

as suppose to

marantz pm7005 wpc 80/4 ohms vs power consumption of 170 watts
nad375bee 150 wpc (whether 8 or 4 ohms) vs power consumption of 290 watts

ano po ang paliwanag dun sa dalawang modelo sa taas?  di kaya understated yung declared wpc?  if i may say, they are more of the exceptions than the rule.

feedbacks will be highly educational and appreciated.

 ;D
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2016 at 11:25 AM by rascal101 »

Offline synchro_01

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #4 on: Sep 08, 2016 at 12:55 PM »
I once had amps that required 1.5kw of input power to deliver 500watts per side@8 ohms, doubles at 4 ohm and again doubles at 2ohms. The manual states that it should be used on its own dedicated 20amp line to safely operate when driven hard. Resembling the attache cases of Darth Vader you can say that its of the Prehistoric design...just like how I want it.

On the other hand though the maturity of digital amp design and assuming that the trailblazers of the audio manufacturing world pursue this path and extract every iota of performance from it, we will see amps that consume a minuscule amount of input power  but can deliver a whole lot of power output. To this day though sound qualitywise I have yet to be swayed towards that direction but thats just me I guess.

Like what was mentioned on this thread...it depends on the design.

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Offline tony

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #5 on: Sep 08, 2016 at 04:32 PM »
Quote
it depends on the design.

yes.....

classA have efficiencies of not more than 50%, meaning for every 50 watt of power output, 100 watts of input is required,
so the other 50 watt is wasted in the form of heat...
class AB at around 65% so that for an output of 65 watts, 100 watts of input is required, the other 35% wasted in form of heat...
class D otoh, has and efficiency of about 90%, so that for a 90 watt output, 100watt power input is required, only 10watts is wasted as heat....

now all the above is just the output stage, what about the power supply? it adds to to total power input....

and what about tubes?

i have seen a single ended tube amp draw 90 watts for a mere output of 3 watts per channel..
i have seen pp amps that has a power consumption of 210 watts for a power output of about 30 watts per channel....

but not to despair, listening to music wherein you are not using more that 10 watts even at high volume levels, things will not be so bad....

we have done full power FTC testing of a 1kw ss amp using sine waves and dummy loads, and when we tested the same amp using a speaker load, we found that a 200 watt level is already very painfull to the ears and hard on the chest...

if you want to find out your actual power consumption, you can get one of this:

in the picture is my diy power monitor, the amp being tested is a 6c33 OTL amp, as the reading indicates,
heaters alone draws 210 watts.....filaments pa lang yan....
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2016 at 04:36 PM by tony »
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline tony

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #6 on: Sep 08, 2016 at 04:34 PM »
good morning sirs / gurus.

i noticed there are amps that wpc is not commensurate on power consumption.

marantz pm6006 60 wpc/4 ohms vs power consumption of 395 watts
cayin h100 100 wpc (whether 8 or 4 ohms) vs power consumption of 400 watts

as suppose to

marantz pm7005 wpc 80/4 ohms vs power consumption of 170 watts
nad375bee 150 wpc (whether 8 or 4 ohms) vs power consumption of 290 watts

ano po ang paliwanag dun sa dalawang modelo sa taas?  di kaya understated yung declared wpc?  if i may say, they are more of the exceptions than the rule.

feedbacks will be highly educational and appreciated.

 ;D

everyday listening will never take those power from meralco, so you can rest easy....
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....

Offline junji

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #7 on: Sep 16, 2016 at 11:22 AM »
yes.....

classA have efficiencies of not more than 50%, meaning for every 50 watt of power output, 100 watts of input is required,
so the other 50 watt is wasted in the form of heat...
class AB at around 65% so that for an output of 65 watts, 100 watts of input is required, the other 35% wasted in form of heat...
class D otoh, has and efficiency of about 90%, so that for a 90 watt output, 100watt power input is required, only 10watts is wasted as heat....

now all the above is just the output stage, what about the power supply? it adds to to total power input....

and what about tubes?

i have seen a single ended tube amp draw 90 watts for a mere output of 3 watts per channel..
i have seen pp amps that has a power consumption of 210 watts for a power output of about 30 watts per channel....

but not to despair, listening to music wherein you are not using more that 10 watts even at high volume levels, things will not be so bad....

we have done full power FTC testing of a 1kw ss amp using sine waves and dummy loads, and when we tested the same amp using a speaker load, we found that a 200 watt level is already very painfull to the ears and hard on the chest...

if you want to find out your actual power consumption, you can get one of this:

in the picture is my diy power monitor, the amp being tested is a 6c33 OTL amp, as the reading indicates,
heaters alone draws 210 watts.....filaments pa lang yan....


Thanks for the knowledge Sir Tony.

Offline tony

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Re: amplifier wpc and power consumption
« Reply #8 on: Sep 16, 2016 at 11:55 AM »
Thanks for the knowledge Sir Tony.

no problem, end users worry a lot of things when they should just be enjoying the music........;)
how do we defend our freedom? by the truth when it is assaulted by Marcos lies....