Author Topic: T-amp Discussion Thread  (Read 292861 times)

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Offline Speaker Doctor

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #30 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 01:32 PM »
sirs,

tanong ko lang po kung saan pwedeng makabili ng IC (2024) na nakalagay sa Sonic T-Amp or yung halos katulad na IC nun ?  Balak ko kasing mag assemble na tulad ng T-Amp but with the modifications. 

Thanks.

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #31 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 02:48 PM »
If you're planning to use 2 sonic t-amps with one PSU, around 4 amps will do pag 8 ohms yung load or 6 amperes pag 4 ohms ang load.

Offline maynard

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #32 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 03:21 PM »
What does "starts to attenuate bass at 100hz" reaaly means?
Yes, its all in the mind.

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #33 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 06:03 PM »
If you're planning to use 2 sonic t-amps with one PSU, around 4 amps will do pag 8 ohms yung load or 6 amperes pag 4 ohms ang load.
thanx alot sir DOHbert!!! :)

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #34 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 06:50 PM »
Attenuate means bumababa na ang db output from 100hz. Thus kung makinig ka ng music na may double bass or yung mga mababa ang tunog ng instrumento, mahina na ang output ng amp with respect to 100hz and frequencies below that. The sonic t-amp is down 10db at 20hz.  Ang "bass" na nadidinig mo from stock unit is not as "low" and impactful as that after tweaking the input cap. Maynard PMed me on what tweaks I did and what parts i used. Basically, they are as follows (in order of preference, ie, biggest difference sonically):
1) Increase the power filter caps from the stock. It's that capacitor stacked in between the 4 inductor filters. Nilagyan ko ata ng 1800uf 35 volt panasonic caps. (effect of bigger filter cap is bigger reserve pag biglang nangaylangan ng lakas yung amp from the PSU, generally, the bigger the better, pero if its too big, bass will seem to slow down a bit ... daw)
2) Changed R4 and R5 to 20kohms (or 22kohms) para ang gain is set to 12v, but what I did was solder the resistor directly to legs #10&11 and #14&15 of the amp, the shortest connection to the chip the better ( I used 1% metallized resistors here, 1/4 watt ata)
3) Changed input caps from default value of .33uf to 2.2uf and soldered this directly from output of volume pot to R1 and R2 (walang pambili ng auricaps, used polypropelene's instead, still better sounding than the stock, highs are not as matinis, mas malambing tumunog and details are mas litaw)
- explanation lang kung bakit kailangan yung tweaks #2 and #3, the capacitor together with the resistors form a high pass filter, and the cutoff frequency is measured as follows: F=1(2*pi*R*C). Thus, Cutoff=1(2*3.14*20000*.0000022), which results to 3.619hz ang cutoff (ideally cutoff freq is at least 2 octaves lower than the lowest frequency expected, thus kung 20hz and lowest expected na tumunog out of the amp, 20hz-10hz is the 1st octave, 10hz to 5hz is the 2nd octave, so yung 3.619 natin is more than 2 octaves lower pa nga). But with the stock .33uf na input cap, cutoff is around 24.154hz, so ang attenuation (reduction) ng output ng bass is 100hz (db reduction) kasi 2 octaves above 24.154 is around 96-100hz. Hope you get the idea. Caveat pala, after increasing input cap, you will definitely hear a turn-on thump na di mo madidinig before with the small .33uf caps, wag lang mabibigla. :)
- regarding the Rfeedback, ginawa kong 22kohm (or 20kohm), basta same measurement as RIn (R1 and R2) para ma set yung gain ng amp to 12v ata. Effect: Parang mas mahina yung output kaya the need to increase the volume output via volume pot, pero ang maganda dito, hindi sya madaling ma over-drive ng input mo.
4) Changed all the wirings inside using cat5, read somewhere the lower resistance the better for the t-amp or digital amp in general
5) Changed volume pot to Alps
6) Used gold plated speaker binding posts and rca inputs
7) Nilagay sa maliit na lalagyan
8) Pagnagsawa, bumili ng Amp3 or Amp6 from 41hz.com. Way way better than a tweaked sonic impact t-amp. Kala ko malinaw na yung t-amp, pero nung pinatugtog ko yung amp6, meron akong nadinig na di ko nadinig sa t-amp.  :o
« Last Edit: Feb 08, 2006 at 06:54 PM by D0Hbert »

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #35 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 07:23 PM »
yeah dami nga websites for t-amp tweaks at tweaked t-amps...
re-boxing muna ako for now kasi i'm happy using t-amp with acoustic research tds202 (AR tds202)
great combination!!! ;D

Offline maynard

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #36 on: Feb 08, 2006 at 10:25 PM »
Big thanks to the T-amp master.
Yes, its all in the mind.

Offline ding45

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #37 on: Feb 09, 2006 at 07:36 AM »
DOHbert,   have u tried the Charlize from a certain Yeo?  Do you know anyone selling it here? TIA

Offline ding45

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #38 on: Feb 09, 2006 at 07:49 AM »
oweidah,    In case you want to try biamping, I forgot to mention that in my biamp setup the reverb seemed to have increased a bit... I still find the sound OK but I dont know if that would be acceptable to your ears. If you are using a different set of speakers maybe you will not experience this...

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #39 on: Feb 09, 2006 at 07:59 AM »
ding45 thanx for info. flexible t-amps, dami pwede tweaks at configuration...

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #40 on: Feb 09, 2006 at 08:07 AM »
Sorry ding, I'm using a amp6 from 41hz. They use the same ta2020 chip, much cheaper than Yeo's Charlize, and according to Nuuk and the guy that maintains the www.michael.mardis.com site, both amps are very much similar in sound. Nice thing with the amp6, on board na yung power regulation. Just assemble and add a step down A/C trafo, ok ka na. :) Yung site ni Yeo is www.diyparadise.com. You can place your orders there then have them shipped, based sya sa malaysia. Another option are the UCD amps, check http://www.hypex.nl/main.htm. They are still so-called digital amps, but much much more powerful, required if you have low efficiency speakers and play loud a lot.
« Last Edit: Feb 09, 2006 at 08:29 AM by D0Hbert »

Offline ding45

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #41 on: Feb 09, 2006 at 08:35 AM »
OK, thanks for the infos DOHbert...

Offline m0b1u5

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #42 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 05:31 PM »
Is it safe to use the 13.8V 6A DC regulated power supply to the T-amp or this is really 12V meron lang 15% attenuation?  these are just the ones I saw in Ace hardware.  The 12V are battery chargers, can they also be used to power the amp?

thank you very much.
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2006 at 06:18 PM by dennispm »
Know Thyself!

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #43 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 06:48 PM »
If you're going to use the 13.8volts for the t-amp, wag mo nang subukan, its risking a burnout of the chip. But if you're a bit adventurous and want to try it anyways, make sure may heat sink yung chip mo, para makatulong sa dissipation ng heat, and make sure 1% tolerance yan. Yung 12volts na battery charger ok na yun, basta make sure at least 2amperes sya, tapos maganda ang regulation. No such thing as 15% attenuation, regulated PSU na yan, pero given the tolerances of the parts used, pag di gumamit ng 1% tolerance na resistors for voltage adjustment sa PSU, yang 13.8volts mo may +/- na 1.387 volts (assuming 10% tolerance which regulated PSU makers usually use), thus pwedeng bumaba ng 12volts pero pwede din tumaas ng 15.1 volts, and with that voltage, sure ako, less than a few seconds, putok yung amp.

Offline m0b1u5

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #44 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 07:02 PM »
oh ohh...  :(

thanks for the tip sir D0Hbert...
Know Thyself!

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #45 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 07:24 PM »
Sir dennis, the Tripath TA2024 datasheet says the maximum rated supply voltage should not exceed 13.2 VDC. check this link http://www.tripath.com/downloads/TA2024.pdf. The more adventurous modders did increase voltage supply to 13volts, mas maganda daw tumunog compared to 12v, pero ang tolerance dapat is 1% lang. Ako nanigurado, stuck with 12volts, at least di ka kinakabahan na pumutok amp mo. I suggest you try the tweaks first, they have a much bigger impact on sound quality.

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #46 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 08:41 PM »
sirs.....ive been using Zebra regulated power supply 13.8volts 6amperes. so far ok naman siya at hindi umiinit ang t-amp  ;D
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2006 at 08:43 PM by oweidah »

Offline ding45

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #47 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 08:57 PM »
oweidah, I also have a 13.8v power supply but I did not use...sayang pwede pala, nakatipid sana ko......thanks for the info

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #48 on: Feb 10, 2006 at 09:08 PM »
ive also tried t-amp with a big & heavy Knight 13.8v reg.powersupply of sir Handyman - used the 10amps and 7amps terminals. drove his diy fostex fe167 94db and diy Rosa floorstanding speakers ... ;D
« Last Edit: Feb 10, 2006 at 09:14 PM by oweidah »

Offline maynard

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #49 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 12:24 AM »
Ako rin 13.8 Zebra thru lighter jack. So far hindi pa naman sumasabog, medyo mainit nga lang.

Okay ba yung stealth mode. compared sa ibang tweaks?
Yes, its all in the mind.

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #50 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 07:43 AM »
So far, yung stealth mode ang pinaka madaling gawin, may tatanggalin ka lang 2 resistors, 2 input caps sa board tatanggalin, tapos i-short yung connection nila, then i-attach mo na yung bagong 2.2uf na caps sa hilera ng saksakan ng cable.

Offline ding45

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #51 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 07:49 AM »
DOHbert,  what would be the effect on the sound of the T amp if stealth mod is done?

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #52 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 10:45 AM »
Better bass response, please read my post on 8 Feb.

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #53 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 11:03 AM »
stock sonic impact t-amp @ home in its new crib built by sir handyman... atop is the acoustic research tds202 sound enhancer
« Last Edit: Mar 10, 2006 at 05:57 PM by oweidah »

Offline m0b1u5

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #54 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 08:39 PM »
     I bought na lang the Zebra DC Regulated 13.8V 3A in Raon this afternoon for 550 bucks.  This goes for I think Php 799 in Ace hardware.  The 6A goes for 850 bucks while this costs more or less 1.2K  in Ace.  I've been searching for the regulated 12V but to no avail, all I saw were 12V AC-DC converters and when I tested them, average Voltmeter reading was 15V!  :o :o :o
     Anyway, when I went to Ace and tested the Zebra 13.8V 6A, the reading was a little over 13V, maybe 13.2 to 13.3. Analog lang tester nila eh...  ;D  ::).
     BTW, this will be my set-up for bedroom use...
      Onkyo C-200 CD Player
      Sony MDS-JB920 MD Deck / Sharp portable MD
      Tono Pre-Amp (stock)
      AR TDS202
      SI T-amp (stock)
      B&W DM303

I hope kayanin yung speakers ko (88 db sensitivity)  ::) ...

thanks.
Know Thyself!

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #55 on: Feb 11, 2006 at 11:07 PM »
     I bought na lang the Zebra DC Regulated 13.8V 3A in Raon this afternoon for 550 bucks.  This goes for I think Php 799 in Ace hardware.  The 6A goes for 850 bucks while this costs more or less 1.2K  in Ace.  I've been searching for the regulated 12V but to no avail, all I saw were 12V AC-DC converters and when I tested them, average Voltmeter reading was 15V!  :o :o :o
     Anyway, when I went to Ace and tested the Zebra 13.8V 6A, the reading was a little over 13V, maybe 13.2 to 13.3. Analog lang tester nila eh...  ;D  ::).
     BTW, this will be my set-up for bedroom use...
      Onkyo C-200 CD Player
      Sony MDS-JB920 MD Deck / Sharp portable MD
      Tono Pre-Amp (stock)
      AR TDS202
      SI T-amp (stock)
      B&W DM303
I hope kayanin yung speakers ko (88 db sensitivity)  ::) ...
thanks.
of course, raon! andelnes?
kaya yan b&wdm303! my t-amp/artds202/yammy avr as preamp/processor is driving b&w601s2 88db din. mas ideal nga setup mo kasi tube preamp. ganda nyan!

Offline maynard

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #56 on: Feb 13, 2006 at 12:05 AM »
@ DOHbert

May tip ka ba sa pag-alis ng dalawang resistor at sa pag-bridge? Parang mahirap eh, anliit masyado.
Yes, its all in the mind.

Offline D0Hbert

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #57 on: Feb 13, 2006 at 07:56 AM »
Suggest ko sir gumamit ng soldering iron na gamit ng pang repair ng cellphones, dapat talagang mapayat and matulis  ;D I have a soldering and hot air station since dati nag rerepair ako cellphones. So kung wala kang ganun, and may kakilala kang nag rerepair ng cellphones, sa kanila mo nalang patanggal yung r01 and r02 ba yun, tapos ipa short mo yung c1 and c2 ata yun. Kung malakas loob mo, suggest ko kanito sa pagtanngal, use 2 soldering irons, place both tips at both ends of 1 SMD resistor, then sabay pitik or buhatin palayo ng board. Wag pwepwersahin ang pag tanggal or masisira yung contact sa board. Ingat lang and wag madaliin.  :D

Offline ding45

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #58 on: Feb 13, 2006 at 11:04 AM »
oweidah,  nice box for your T amp..... mas maganda siguro kung si Charlize Theron ang nasa loob.....

Offline oweidah

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Re: Class D/Sonic Impact Tweaks
« Reply #59 on: Feb 13, 2006 at 01:14 PM »
thanx ding45...'onga charlizeT but hindi muna ni-risk retoke k dra.vikiB baka maaksidente walang pamalit. later siguro sa next t-amp. maganda rin may pang reference before & after retoke para makumpara. rite now, maganda ang synergy ng stock t-amp with ar tds202 - esp. for extended LEISURE listening- no ear fatigue whether audio or HT ;D  ;D  ;D
« Last Edit: Feb 14, 2006 at 08:48 AM by oweidah »