Author Topic: Newbie and Not-so Noob Thread: Questions (FAQ) on anything Tubes  (Read 97523 times)

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Offline levi

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My present audio set up utilizes a 50 watt per channel Sonic Frontier power amplifier, a Conrad Johnson pre-ampifier, an Enlightened Audio CD Player, a pair of B&W DM 602 S3 speakers. I am using big, branded interconnect and speaker cables as well. The sound is superb and really live especially on a dedicated listening room specially designed for the joint home theater and audio room. Lately, however, I notice humming and hissing sounds occasionally coming out of from playing vocals, and heavly bassed musical instruments.  Is the trouble coming out of my tubes? Or my cables? or defective CDs? It is not consistent in all CDs I play. Please advise.



Offline levi

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I saw them in a shop in Park Square in Makati.  It is somewhere in between Upscale Audio and Sound Dimensions.  The tube amps look pretty impressive and expensive and big.  The front panel is black and says "Audio Tube", the back says "Made In Metro Manila" or something like that.  There are two models, one is 50wpc and the other is 100wpc.

The rear has a switch to select 4 ohms or 8ohms.  It also has another switch to select pentode or triode.

They also have a version of the power amp with one line level input, meaning you can only connect it to one component and it has two volume controls, one per channel.

They seem to be reasonable priced, the 50wpc going for P16,000, and if you get the one with the volume control (which is probably more like a passive pre-amp) then you have sort of like an-all tube integrated amp.

Has anyone seen them or tried them?  I would want opinions!  Thanks.

Jovi




Offline levi

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I have heard 3 different types of these amps. that are all made here in M.M. Thet were the S.E.T. types anf I must say that they are good efforts at Tube Jobs. Only one produced good sound. I will not mention the names of the amps. to avoid controversy kilala ko kasi lahat yung gumawa most of these jobs were the 300Bs and the 2A3s. One comment though these amps. lack the power supply heft and parts quality e.g. MIT caps, Roderstein resistors, Cerafine electrolytics etc. etc. but this is me speaking.

the best thing that you could do is to audition the amps. and do a close inspection on them. At those prices pwede na but be careful.



Offline levi

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I have heard 3 different types of these amps. that are all made here in M.M. Thet were the S.E.T. types anf I must say that they are good efforts at Tube Jobs. Only one produced good sound. I will not mention the names of the amps. to avoid controversy kilala ko kasi lahat yung gumawa most of these jobs were the 300Bs and the 2A3s. One comment though these amps. lack the power supply heft and parts quality e.g. MIT caps, Roderstein resistors, Cerafine electrolytics etc. etc. but this is me speaking.

the best thing that you could do is to audition the amps. and do a close inspection on them. At those prices pwede na but be careful.


When you say only one amp produced "good sound", what exactly do you mean by that?  Also, what was the sonic characteristic of most of these amps that made them sound deficient for you?  Did they lack detail?  Bass?  Clarity? Warmth?  Do you think it would be possible to buy a tweaked version of this amp with high-quality parts?

Also, for the price, do you get the "tube sound" already, or would a cheap restored tube integrated/receiver be better for the first foray to tubes?  I have no tube experience pa kasi but I am really intrigued on trying one out sometime in the future.

Jovi




Offline levi

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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D.  Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.  

Offline arnoldc

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hey levi, congrats!

i myself have recently moved to tube gear (as originally planned) as i now have Anthem Pre-1L and Anthem Amp-1 driving my pair of Infinity Kappa 200.

si andrewsj is going tubes na din ah...

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D.  Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.  

hi levi!

sabihin mo lang sa akin kung kailan mo itatapon sa bintana yung Yamaha mo para maka-abang ako... ha ha!

anyways, please send me a PM on how much you got them and some of the amps' specs, if you can.

tuff

Offline Blade

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hi levi!

anyways, please send me a PM on how much you got them and some of the amps' specs, if you can.



sayang! i was there last tue at hyper's place, saw your scott kaya lang wed mo pa ata kukunin. nauna lang ako ng isang araw sana naki-audition na rin ako sa inyo. ;)
am still undecided kasi if i'll upgrade my AVR or just buy an integrated amp (tubes or solid) for my listening pleasures. 8)


thanks.

Blade. 8)

Offline jay_cee_em

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Hey levi  ;)

Heard the news from hyperaudio  :)

Congratulations on your new toy and welcome to the wonderful world of tubes :)

Please do let us know of your listening discoveries with your new tube gear  :)

Enjoy !

Offline levi

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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D.  Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.  

hi levi!

sabihin mo lang sa akin kung kailan mo itatapon sa bintana yung Yamaha mo para maka-abang ako... ha ha!

anyways, please send me a PM on how much you got them and some of the amps' specs, if you can.

tuff


    Hyper gave me a good price. It is hard to compare the prices because, your dealing with second hand items. It will be case to case basis. I just told Hyperaudio my budget and to inform me whenever he finds a good amp that would fit. Ilang weeks ko din binalikbalikan pero sulit naman. Actually I even tag along my Dad to help me audition. Another thing I also considered is after sales service and no problem naman kay hyper.

Blade,

    Medyo nawala nga interest ko sa receiver upgrade after getting the Scott.  Delay ko na muna expenses sa HT lipat ko muna sa audio. Sabi nga ni Toobs mas magastos ang audio. There is still one more Scott kay Hyper, I think naka post ngayon sa Assorted B&S but I got the lower wattage lang. More than enough na sa requirement ko.

Thanks  Arnoldc and Jong.

Offline Toobs

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Hi Levi,

Glad to hear that you are now into tube audio.  Like I told you,  this is just the start of this expensive hobby.

The best part of using tube equipment is the possibility of using different brand/make of tubes.  Every brand of tube have their own sonic flavor.  Each time you plug in a different brand of tube makes you listen to a different amp.  Unlike using SS,  you need to replace the whole equipment to get the needed improvement.

Tube rolling is the fun part in using tube equipment.

So your next quest is to find other tubes whether brand new or used to try out in your Scott amp.  Don't get hung up with popular brands,  get a set of each brand you can find and it will also serve as your backup.  Also,  do not overlook used tubes.  As long as it tests good it will surely give you plenty of service.

Enjoy,
Toobs

Offline dondon

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naku di ko na nafofollow up kay mr. Rene yung pinapa-repair ko na scott 299d , bigla ko naalala :)

levi, what output tubes you're using? do you know anyone here in manila who has a quad 7591 NOS? or even a used one?

Offline levi

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Thanks toobs.

   I have to know more before changing the tubes.

Dondon,

  Im not sure if it is the output tube Philips EL84. Sorry but Im not yet  familiar with the tubes.

Offline Blade

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Blade,

    Medyo nawala nga interest ko sa receiver upgrade after getting the Scott.  I got the lower wattage lang. More than enough na sa requirement ko.

 

bro levi

ako din baka dina muna magupgrade ng AVR ilalagay ko na lang sa budget ko for an integrated amp (tubes will do ;D ;D) ilang watts ba yung Scott mo? will try to sell either my dm303 or mission702e pangdagdag sa budget. hyper already gave me quote for the other Scott. how is the Scott's performance when used with your 602S3s?

thanks........


Blade. 8)







Offline levi

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Blade,

      My Scott is only 20wpc according to Hyper. It was able to drive the 805 and the 601 of Rene easily. It can also drive and bring out the best from my 303. My 602 is for my HT but I tried testing it also.  I prefer the Scott with the 602 because the music has more body, but its too bulky for my stands. Another thing is, it does not blend well with the furnitures unlike the 303. I will wait for a next project nalang so I can upgrade my AVR. Its not a priority anymore, I dont use it na nga because happy ako with my new toy at mura lang.
        I think the other Scott is more powerful but more expensive. Okay na sa akin ito, beginner palang naman ako. I will upgrade soon and i can use this for my room.


Levi

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Tubeys,

If you want a more powerful Scott integrated, look for the Scott 299D.  Its a bit more expensive though.

Offline Blade

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Thanks for your replies and comments bro levi & M_Shoe
Will look into the Scott & ST-70, and if budget permits might opt for the STs (preamps will follow na lang).
Will definitely pay His Airness Hyper a visit for an audition and a few rounds of beer. ;D ;D


Blade. 8)

Offline hyperaudio

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now playing: all-chrome, souped-up dynakit stereo 70.
here's a rundown of upgrades/highlights involved:
power supply:
1. elna cerafine (bypassed with rtx multicap), sprague atom and panasonic filter capacitors to really clean the high voltage supply and tighten up the bass of the system.
2. metal oxide dropping resistors.
3. souped up power transformer for power reserve to drive inefficient speakers.
4. ultra-fast diode (with snubber) on bias supply for stable bias even on high transient signals.
5. iec sockets to let you optimize power cord choice.
signal and output circuits:
1. rtx multicap coupling capacitors.
2. allen-bradley carbon comp resistors used throughout for dynamics, dynamic bloom and liquidity.
3. 5% polypropylene capacitors on feedback and filter circuits for signal accuracy.
4. triode/ultralinear switching.
tubes used:
1. el-34, nos siemens quad.
2. 7199, nos rca pair.
3. 5ar4/gz34, amperex (made by mullard, great britain).
hardware:
1. gold-plated inputs (rca jacks) and outputs (5-way binding posts).
2. gold-plated ceramic tube sockets for driver and output tubes.
3. silver plated copper wiring and silvered solder used throughout.
« Last Edit: Nov 16, 2002 at 08:27 AM by hyperaudio »

Offline ambel

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Rene,

       St-70 pa rin yan hindi ka na ba nagsasawa diyan.
Si Erik to sa LA iba naman after 13 years iyan parin.
Marami na rin akong binaklas na ST-70 buti naibebenta
ko kahit na nawalang hiya. Mas gusto ko iyong version ng Hico o yung ST-35 mayroon nga yung kaibigan kong
Italyano na Hi-co na EL-84 mas maganda ang tunog sa
CJ Premiere One. Single Ended Amp naman pag nasanay
ka sa tunog ng Western Electric 300B lahat ng tubo ay
pangit ang tunog.

Offline hyperaudio

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pareng erik,
kahit nakasubok/nakagawa na ko ng iba-ibang klaseng 300B, 2A3, 45, vt-25, vt-52 atbpang single-ended amps, babalik at babalik ka pa rin sa st-70. may magic ito, pare. iba ang lagkit ng tunog. tapos iparis mo sa ls-3/5a
at preamp na pas-3 or foreplay, tapos na ang kuwento.
correction pare; 20 years na tayong tubero.
p.s. padalhan mo ko ng st-35 kung mayroon.
regards,
rene

Offline ambel

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Rene,

        Mayroon Hi-co na mono blocks yung kaibigan ko na
EL-84 PP puede natin mahila yon kung interesado ka. Ito
ang mga amps niya na balak ibenta Mac Mc-30, MC-60,
maraming scott tuner 350B, kung gusto mo yung CJ na
Premiere One for sale din at yung CAT SL-1 pre-amp pati
yung CAT ko available din tagal kong naloko nitong pre-amp na ito.
        Mahirap nang bumalik sa PP huling amp ko ay PP
na 300B gawa ni Kevin Kennedy pero nung SET ako binenta ko kaagad. Pag natikman mo ang original WE300B from 1960's, 50's, 40's and specially yung ukit
version at full range na JBL L300 with 15" woofer lahat
ng speakers unano ang tunog hindi namimili ng tunog
ma full scale orchestra o accapella tulo ang laway mo.
Sa SET 300B lang ang gusto ko the rest nang mga triode
ay joker na lang. Mayrooon akong 10Y/VT-25 amp ginagamit ko para sa Altec VOT Flamenco speakers
pero hindi magustuhan ang tunog ewan ko bakit
gustong gusto nila ang Altec speakers. Mayroon din akong 604E, 605A ganoon din ang tunog ang lakas nang
influensia nang Altec dominant ang tunog at nagriring pa
at beams parang flashlight.
Mayroon akong kaibigan na may freight co. dito si Ogie
pero base siya Manila pero andito siya. Shipper ni JR
at gusto niyang idispatsa yung CJ MV-125 at PV-12
niya pag-uwi next year patatwagin ko siya sa iyo.

Erik,

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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hello ambe/erik,

Mukang good ol' tube stuff yang mga yan ah.  :)

Offline dondon

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mga bro.

help naman, may kilala ba kayo na nagbebenta ng 7591 tubes? oks na pala scott ko gawa na, ang di lang okey yung 4 na output tubes, bumibigay na daw sabi mr. rene.
7591 electro harmonix daw, dikit na dikit masyado sa output, pati yung sa torres engineering and sovtek ganun din malaki ng konti ang diameter 35 mm. yung scott 299D ko kasi early version s#215080, malaki and output transformer.

also check out e-bay there is a scott 299D (early version), same as what i have. looks okey. :)

Offline ambel

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M_SHOE_MAKER,

Istambay din ako nung araw sa mga Audio shop sa
Maynila 10 years ago. Ito ang mga hang out ko kay
Rene, Mang JB sa MCS, Reference sa QUAD and Greenhills, and Listening Room ni JR.
Ito ang mga barkada ko noon Lito Manalo, Bert Dimayuga, Aries, paminsan minsan sina Nonong Espiritu,
si Joseph Esmilla nakasama namin kay Mang JB.
Karamihan ng mangbubulok dito sa LA ay kilala ko
mga Koreano at Insik. Maganda pa rin ang ST-70
kung stock aplitan lang ang coupling at filter caps.
Halos lahat ng vintage amp ay nasubukan ko na
TMW too much work ang pika gusto ko sa vintage ay
ang Marantz 8B at MAC 30 okey din ang Ei-co ST-70.
Okey lang ang mga ito pag naka bookshelf speakers
once you go full range ito na ang flabby and loose
bass nawawala. So kailangan mo ng modern PP amps
pero nagtutunog SS naman. Ang tagal ko ring papalit
palit ng tube amps itong lately puro SET from Cary to
Sun Audio pero nung ako na ang gumawa ng amp
at sinubukan ko lahat ng tubo at circuit doon lang
ako nasiyahan. Ngayon enjoy na enjoy ako sa stereo
kasi ang concentration ko ay sa music I forget about the
system sa ang effort ko ay na punta sa paghahanap ng
mga original vinyls hindi na ako nakikinig sa mga audiophile recordings at hindi ko rin binibili. Nakatabi na
lang ang mga Sheffield Labs, Chesky, Reference at iba
pang audiofile recordings ko kinokolekta ko na lang.
I look for 6 eye Columbia, Blue note, Cleef, Contemporary Labels.

Erik,

Offline Racio

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Finally, I got my first tube gear aside from X10D.  Scott integrated from Hyperaudio. Hooked it up with my B&W 303 and what a perfect match. Im hearing more instrument and details that I dont hear before. Bass is more than enough, so I dont have to use my subs again. I want to throw my Yamaha receiver " ang layo ng tunog ". I know this Scott is one of the cheap tube gears you can find but it can deliver. It made the 805, 303 and 601 sing. I will try to use my 602 tom and my 86db Wharfedale Diamond 4 to see the if it can handle the job.  

Hey Lev,

That's fantastic! Welcome to "tubophilia" pare! You've now entered a whole new world in audio. I'm sure next thing I'll know, you're tube rolling you EL-84s already. Enjoy bud!!!  ;)

-Racio  8)






Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Helo Erik,

Kay Mang JV rin ako tumatambay dati.  Noong unang panahon,  ;D nung una ko siyang nakilala, akala isa siyang bolero.  ;D  

Una: Sabi niya, masmaganda ang tubo kaysa solid state.  Sabi ko, paano mangyayari yun, pang lolo na yung mga tubo?  ;D  Pinarinig sa akin yung ST70  vs iba ibang solid state amps.  Ayun, convinced ako.

Pangalawa: Sabi niya, mas maganda and turntable kaysa CD.  Sabi ko, Ano? CD is "Perfect Sound Forever"!  Pinarinig niya sa akin ulit ang turntable vs. CD of the same artist and album.  Ayun, tapos ang laban, convinced na naman ako.

Di nagtagal, bumili ako ng ST70 at Micro Seiki turntable sa kanya.

After 13 years, naka ST70 at ikot lamesa   ;D a.k.a. turntable pa rin ako.


Offline Toobs

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Hi Levi,

We will be having a tube rolling session this coming saturday.

See email exchanges in the pinoydiophile forum for more details.

I hope to see you there.

Toobs

Offline vintage_dog

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what's the link to the pinoydiophile forum?
thanks

Offline Toobs

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Offline levi

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Hi Levi,

We will be having a tube rolling session this coming saturday.

See email exchanges in the pinoydiophile forum for more details.

I hope to see you there.

Toobs


Toobs
  Sayang, Im scheduled to visit the in laws on Sat so wala akong kawala. Maybe next time and thanks for the offer.

Levi