Author Topic: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?  (Read 34019 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Haywire

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« on: Apr 21, 2006 at 08:21 AM »
mga sir 2 klase po ba ang blank dual layer DVD disc DVD+R and DVD-R? nag try kasi ako mag burn sa DVD+R dual layer ayaw mag play sa DVD player no disc pero sa computer nag play sya ano po kaya dahilan?  ???

Offline audibleillusions

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 161
  • Hi-fi, HT,Professional Audio and Video Store
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #1 on: Apr 24, 2006 at 12:40 PM »
normaly ang dual layer ang size nya ay 8.5g. halos lahat ng original dvd's with dts ay dual layer na.and dapat ang dvd player mo ay multi formato high format na. make sure kung anong format ang naburn mo. yung iba kasi kapag nagburn at dvdr +- ay laging parang data.try to use muna ng dvdr na 4.7 g

Offline Haywire

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 17
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #2 on: Apr 24, 2006 at 01:08 PM »
Tnx maybe i need to change the booktype  ;D

Offline rdj

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 24
  • Minimum Wage Earner
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #3 on: Aug 16, 2006 at 03:09 AM »
saan nakakabili ng dual layer dvd+r/dvd-r media dito sa pinas? at magkano price range niya? nagtanong kasi ako sa cdr king quiapo, the saleslady just gave me a blank stare

Offline SPaCeMaN SPiFF

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,261
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #4 on: Aug 16, 2006 at 03:41 AM »
saan nakakabili ng dual layer dvd+r/dvd-r media dito sa pinas? at magkano price range niya? nagtanong kasi ako sa cdr king quiapo, the saleslady just gave me a blank stare

that's weird ... cause i know they sell 2 kinds of dual layer dvd+Rs... RiData (200pesos) and Imation (300pesos... or was it 350? ahhh... i forgot. lol).

Offline dyoddyowel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #5 on: Sep 21, 2006 at 11:22 PM »
that's weird ... cause i know they sell 2 kinds of dual layer dvd+Rs... RiData (200pesos) and Imation (300pesos... or was it 350? ahhh... i forgot. lol).


i think its 350, still expensive...

i'd rather split my movies into two dvd5 than buy an expensive dvd9...

Offline ralfy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,309
  • I am the Mountie!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #6 on: Sep 24, 2006 at 08:52 PM »
Many new players can read DVD+R, and many new burners can now handle dual layer. I bought RiData and TDK DVD+R for around P200 (you can get cheaper brands and prices, around 120 pesos or so), burned using a Sony DVD-RW, and the disks played correctly on a Nextbase.

Offline dyoddyowel

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #7 on: Sep 25, 2006 at 02:13 AM »
san ka nakabili?

Offline ralfy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,309
  • I am the Mountie!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 01, 2006 at 03:29 PM »
Stores that specialize in selling blank CDs and DVDs usually have them.

Offline VADER

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • USE THE FORCE!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 03, 2006 at 12:01 AM »
In greenhills di ko lang maremember yung name ng store i was able to buy a Verbatim DVD+R DL for only P250.
« Last Edit: Oct 03, 2006 at 12:02 AM by VADER »

Offline bam777

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 40
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #10 on: Feb 14, 2007 at 09:31 PM »
Pwede nyo naman compress and DVD 9 to DVD 5 hindi masyado halata ang quality ny picture.

Offline rafgar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #11 on: Mar 11, 2007 at 02:34 PM »
I saw today a CD-R King DVD+R dual layer at CD-R King V-Mall for P50.00.  I bought one to test it on my dvd-writer, although I still have to actually to backup a dual layer DVD disc on it.  So far, DVD Decrypter reports that the disc has a media ID of CMC MAGD01 and is indeed dual layer while the supported write speed is 2.4x.  According to the digitalFAQ.com video guide, the media is categorized as 3rd class media (meaning, quality can be questionable, about 50-60% success rate).

« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2007 at 02:35 PM by rafgar »

Offline barrid

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,264
  • What's on your mind?
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #12 on: Mar 12, 2007 at 06:27 AM »
I got interested when I saw it's in P50 price. Thanks for quoting the success rate of this media. It helped me to make a decision.  :)
There's something to learn everyday

Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #13 on: Mar 20, 2007 at 08:22 AM »
Since, it only carried an affordable (usual price is 120Php/180Php) 50Php price, I decided to get 10 discs at the CDR-King in Gilmore, and 8 of my burns with those 7.9G and 8.1G ISO that I downloaded were successfully burned with my BenQ burner P4 1.6/ASUS MB/Ge Force 3500 using Nero 6, however, I am not sure about the Liteon SOHW-1693S since the Hellboy-Sword Of Storms(Animated)7.85 G ISO that I burned with my Liteon on my P4 3.0 DualCore/MSI MB/GEForce 6 series utilizing Nero OEM went on to burn the disc at 4X speed and when I looked at the data surface, it burned itself with 2 overt layers, however, it played OK with my Pioneer 696AVS, but seemingly was unable to navigate the layer change with my old reliable Nextbase(I've not tried this with my Xtreme/Philips).
The other coasters was mainly due to my fault since I tested the speed capability on my Liteon(again) using only the Nero OEM, and I didn't know that it did burn the disc, making it unusable, resulting to a 100 pesos worth of research. :'(
For info to those interested. ;)
« Last Edit: Mar 20, 2007 at 08:24 AM by Alfie »

Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #14 on: Mar 22, 2007 at 01:35 PM »
Warning:
    I got another batch of the generic Dual Layer DVDs and this time they took a new tube out at the CDR King inside the Gilmore IT center, and 2 failed to burn indicating a possible batch defect, hence, I returned the 8 remaining discs and exchanged them for a 512 mb flash disc.
   For info to those interested. :-\

Offline rafgar

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 689
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #15 on: Mar 24, 2007 at 06:36 PM »
Before I read alfie's most recent post, I bought three more dual layer DVDs from CDR-King to add to the one disc I bought previously.  It is just today that I was able to test a disc.  So far, with this one disc, the burn was successful.  I just don't know until when this disc's reliability will last.  I used Nero Express 6 and LG DVD-Writer GSA-H10N for this burn.

By the way, it's just now that I noticed that the disc's label says 'DAUL LAYER'!   Ang laki na nga font na ginamit nila, and yet they missed the wrong spelling.  They must have the same proofreader as Viva!  ???


« Last Edit: Mar 24, 2007 at 06:38 PM by rafgar »

Offline ralfy

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,309
  • I am the Mountie!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #16 on: Apr 17, 2007 at 09:34 AM »
Don't forget to check the "verify" box. Sometimes, a successful burn can still contain data errors.

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #17 on: Sep 08, 2008 at 08:50 AM »
I found some great DL generics: ILLUSION DVD+R DL, 8X.  Made by MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media), the manufacturer for Verbatim. 

Data from Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0 (Disc Info Tab), using Samsung DVD writer SH-S202N:

Disc Type        DVD+R DL
Manufacturer   Verbatim
MID                MKM 003 000 (00h)
Write Speeds    4X - 6X - 8X - 10X


P50 each from Datamax at Greenhills V-Mall 3rd Floor.
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2008 at 09:04 AM by barrister »

Offline evo69

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #18 on: Sep 08, 2008 at 05:13 PM »
I found some great DL generics: ILLUSION DVD+R DL, 8X.  Made by MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media), the manufacturer for Verbatim. 

Data from Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0 (Disc Info Tab), using Samsung DVD writer SH-S202N:

Disc Type        DVD+R DL
Manufacturer   Verbatim
MID                MKM 003 000 (00h)
Write Speeds    4X - 6X - 8X - 10X


P50 each from Datamax at Greenhills V-Mall 3rd Floor.

Can you check the inner hub code and the outer hub code as to what's written there? I have seen these discs you are talking about at the same store you are referring to. The codes in the inner/outer hub will prove the authenticity of this media as Mitsubishi-made. There are a lot of manufacturers that mimic the Media ID of other companies for compatibility with burners but are actually less reliable than the real media itself. If it is indeed real MCC/MKM media, then it's most probably B-grade MCC/MKM coming from the factory as only Verbatim/Mitsubishi-branded MCC/MKM-coded media are A-grade.

The Illusion brand is known for "faking" MCC/MKM media codes - that's why I stay away from these. Non-Verbatim/Mitsubishi MCC/MKM discs are for sure to be of lower quality and less reliable than those of the aforementioned brands - if they're not fake, that is.
« Last Edit: Sep 08, 2008 at 05:22 PM by evo69 »

Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #19 on: Sep 08, 2008 at 08:49 PM »
I found some great DL generics: ILLUSION DVD+R DL, 8X.  Made by MKM (Mitsubishi Kagaku Media), the manufacturer for Verbatim. 

Data from Nero CD-DVD Speed 4.7.5.0 (Disc Info Tab), using Samsung DVD writer SH-S202N:

Disc Type        DVD+R DL
Manufacturer   Verbatim
MID                MKM 003 000 (00h)
Write Speeds    4X - 6X - 8X - 10X


P50 each from Datamax at Greenhills V-Mall 3rd Floor.

He-He...Barrister...sa Quiapo ang source niyan'.....kuha ko sa muslim suki ko ay 30 pesos/disc kasama ang libreng casing for 10 discs.....sa Norzagaray St. iyan......maraming natira, kunti lang ang may gusto nang DL, kasi mura pa rin mag-isplit, sa 2 disc single layer, pero ako sa DL disc game ko siya ginagamit......na-ku-corrupt kasi kung na-isplit iyun' data eh.


Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #20 on: Sep 08, 2008 at 08:58 PM »
Can you check the inner hub code and the outer hub code as to what's written there? I have seen these discs you are talking about at the same store you are referring to. The codes in the inner/outer hub will prove the authenticity of this media as Mitsubishi-made. There are a lot of manufacturers that mimic the Media ID of other companies for compatibility with burners but are actually less reliable than the real media itself. If it is indeed real MCC/MKM media, then it's most probably B-grade MCC/MKM coming from the factory as only Verbatim/Mitsubishi-branded MCC/MKM-coded media are A-grade.

The Illusion brand is known for "faking" MCC/MKM media codes - that's why I stay away from these. Non-Verbatim/Mitsubishi MCC/MKM discs are for sure to be of lower quality and less reliable than those of the aforementioned brands - if they're not fake, that is.

So far no coaster for me, I have consumed 10 discs.....burned for PC games, Data and of course DVD backup of favored movies,wherein the bargain cost is 199 pesos, whereas Illusion only costs 30-35 pesos in Quiapo....and I assure you you'll label them B-grade.

From my experience, a good reliable burn is affected primarily by;
1) Burner itself for e.g. Pioneer burners are more reliable than LG
2) Burning software for e.g. ImageBurn vs. DVD Decrypter Vs. Nero version 6 vs version 7 vs. version 8
3) Disc media
4) lastly....the data...since at times, you'd think it's the media, however, the decryption to ISO was faulty(that's why, I always go to the 2 step file decryption then Iso build practice).


Offline evo69

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #21 on: Sep 08, 2008 at 11:10 PM »
Reliability, consistency, and compatibility are the three key aspects needed for "backups" - a disc that will be unreadable after a year containing important data is not worth the extra savings in my opinion. Although if you're only going to use these discs for burning "downloaded pirata" games, and along the same lines, dual-layer movies then it's perfectly suited for that. Data that needs to be read in 2 years or more - save up and get the reliable quality discs. For what it's worth DL discs are still not as reliable in terms of longevity as compared to SL discs.

The actual quality of a burn is primarily affected not by the burner alone, but also by the combination of the writer with the media. Although I'd also say that the Pioneer is a very good burner, you'd be surprised by how new LG writers burn any type of disc well (from the most expensive to even the cheapest ones burn beautifully!), while the Pioneer is picky and refuses to read badly-treated media. New (and cheap) Samsungs are phenomenal too - and this comes from a former Plextor/Pioneer hardcore fan. I've never had issues with the software - as long as your hardware can deal with the sustained transfer rates then everything'll be peachy - although ImgBurn is well-known to deal well with layer break issues, and is highly recommended for DL media.

Since this forum is primarily focused on DVD "backup", I recommended not using any fake/cheap/low-quality media (and stick to SL instead of DL, with ECC-redundancy) for data you intend to keep. Using it for games (which usually "get old" after playing it for a year) or that popular movie you missed in the cinemas (and actually isn't worth keeping) is actually acceptable, but not for critical data. I've been burned too many times (get it? ;)) from using cheap media for those important stuff only to find out years later (started writing CDs in 1998, DVDs in 2001) that my supposed "backups" cannot be read.

A word of advice: you get what you pay for. :)

Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #22 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 04:59 AM »
Quote
A word of advice: you get what you pay for

Not True...a common misconception;

As long as you know what you're doing.  ;)

Offline techdude

  • Trade Count: (+24)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,220
  • Spinning...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #23 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 07:55 AM »
I used those disc (Illusion DL), no codes on disc itself, MD0002 lang ang nakasulat sa disc.  Most probably kinopya lang nga sa Mitsubishi.  I got around two coasters (out of @20), but that is way better than what I got with CDRKing Vine DL (3 out of 4 yata - write failed, and layerbreak not changeable according to ImgBurn).

Datamax ko rin binili.  I also tried their ProData DL brand (also as reliable) but 2.4x lang write, so matagal...  They also have a cheap one na generic (28 each), but I dare not touch those.  Gusto ko lang sa Datamax, walang pila, unlike CDR-King, na ubos maghapon mo just to get a couple of discs...

BTW, I use these as pangbackup sa expensive/rare orig DVD na I really like.  I don't know how they will fare with other types of media (ie Divx, MKV, data files), so your mileage may vary...
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God.

Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #24 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 08:04 AM »
Quote
I've been burned too many times (get it? ) from using cheap media for those important stuff only to find out years later (started writing CDs in 1998, DVDs in 2001) that my supposed "backups" cannot be read.

WOW  :o

Really  ???

P4 had a debut in 2000, the 1.4 cost around $400

People were still paying a huge sum for a P3 CPU.

DVD-ROM was still expensive but available in 2001

PinoyDVD started back in 2001.

DVD decrypter was initially released back in 2003...Macrovision was able to shut it down 2005.

DVD writers became commercially available in 2004,and most of the discussions started in 2005.

So if...you're burning DVDs quite ahead than some of the professional video editors here, then, that explains why..."you've been burned many times"...... one member I know, was still into VCDs back in 2005.  :P

Anyway.....the thread is just to inform members of the availability of dual layered discs,and my response is only to attest that the Illusion brand is just as capable.   :P

I cannot at this time confirm that the there will be no DVD rot after 2 years, since my Original Superman DVD 18G dual sided Warner release which I bought for a premium price was the very 1st one to suffer from a DVD rot, so seemingly it can happen wheter the DVD media you bought is expensive and branded or not.  ;)


Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #25 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 09:25 AM »
Thanks for your inputs!  I had no idea that media IDs are being faked.

Until I read your posts, I never bothered doing a physical comparison of the discs, since I thought a media ID check was sufficient.



Comparing the Illusion with my Verbatim, here are the differences I noticed:

- The hub codes are different;
- The dye colors are different -- Verbatim is redder; Illusion is bluer; and
- The inner edge of the dye is smooth on the Verbatim, wavy on the Illusion.

On a side-by-side physical check, the Illusion definitely looks like a fake MKM.  Ang masasabi ko lang ay bagay na bagay pala ang pangalang "Illusion"   :P



If it is indeed real MCC/MKM media, then it's most probably B-grade MCC/MKM coming from the factory as only Verbatim/Mitsubishi-branded MCC/MKM-coded media are A-grade.

I don't get it.  Why would Mitsubishi make A-grade and B-grade discs with the same MKM 003 ID?  If they don't use a different ID for the B-grade disc, doesn't that defeat the very purpose of using a media ID?



Tama si sir evo69.  A successful burn is not good enough if the disc will quickly become unreadable.

That's what I said in 2006 when more members were more interested in low price than quality:

Always use high quality discs kahit mahal.  Otherwise, nonsense ang pag back-up kung masisira din agad.

 ;)
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2008 at 09:49 AM by barrister »

Offline Clondalkin

  • Trade Count: (+46)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,142
  • Tea the gift of life...
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #26 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 11:24 AM »
Just curious, how much is the price range of good quality DVD-R in the Philippines right now?

The only 2 brands clearly marked "Made in Japan" (in Japan) are those made by Taiyo Yuden and TDK, and the cheapest price is about 17 pesos per disk.   Even though Taiyo Yuden is recognized in Japan as the most premier DVD-R mare, I prefer TDK because Taiyo Yuden's brand sounds corny (THATS).   ;D

Last time I bought Mitsubishi Chemicals' DL disks (made in Singapore), I had to shell out about 160 pesos per disk kaya I still dont back-up with DL disks. 

Offline Alfie

  • Trade Count: (+11)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,515
  • Hello!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #27 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 11:33 AM »
Quote
The only 2 brands clearly marked "Made in Japan" (in Japan) are those made by Taiyo Yuden and TDK, and the cheapest price is about 17 pesos per disk.   Even though Taiyo Yuden is recognized in Japan as the most premier DVD-R mare, I prefer TDK because Taiyo Yuden's brand sounds corny (THATS).   

Wow....Naka-kaingit ka naman talaga. ;)


Prices in Quiapo:
Cheapest DL is 35/piece, 30/10 pieces and up (starting price of 40 pesos, pero pag sinabi mon'g "si CDR King eh' ganito...", price goes low)
Cheapest Single layer is 5.50/100 pieces for Taiyo Yuden "Kuno' siguro or rejects"

Offline barrister

  • Trade Count: (+7)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,028
  • cessante ratione legis, cessat ipsa lex
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #28 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 12:08 PM »
The only 2 brands clearly marked "Made in Japan" (in Japan) are those made by Taiyo Yuden and TDK, and the cheapest price is about 17 pesos per disk.   Even though Taiyo Yuden is recognized in Japan as the most premier DVD-R mare, I prefer TDK because Taiyo Yuden's brand sounds corny (THATS).   ;D

In the Philippiines, the high-quality discs are Verbatim and Imation.  I think they're all Taiwan-made. 

Experienced users still say Taiyo Yuden is the best, but it's hard to find here; besides, they say that new Verbatims have even better standalone compatibility than Taiyo-Yuden. 

So in the Philippines, Verbatim (MCC and MKM) is regarded as the best; Imation (CMC Mag and MKM) is second-best.  Hindi sikat ang TDK dito.   
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2008 at 12:09 PM by barrister »

Offline evo69

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Apprentice
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: dual layer DVD+R / DVD-R?
« Reply #29 on: Sep 09, 2008 at 01:19 PM »
WOW  :o

Really  ???

P4 had a debut in 2000, the 1.4 cost around $400

People were still paying a huge sum for a P3 CPU.

DVD-ROM was still expensive but available in 2001

PinoyDVD started back in 2001.

DVD decrypter was initially released back in 2003...Macrovision was able to shut it down 2005.

DVD writers became commercially available in 2004,and most of the discussions started in 2005.

So if...you're burning DVDs quite ahead than some of the professional video editors here, then, that explains why..."you've been burned many times"...... one member I know, was still into VCDs back in 2005.  :P

Anyway.....the thread is just to inform members of the availability of dual layered discs,and my response is only to attest that the Illusion brand is just as capable.   :P

I cannot at this time confirm that the there will be no DVD rot after 2 years, since my Original Superman DVD 18G dual sided Warner release which I bought for a premium price was the very 1st one to suffer from a DVD rot, so seemingly it can happen wheter the DVD media you bought is expensive and branded or not.  ;)



I used my Tito's Yamaha CD-writer while in senior year high school (SCSI man! Those were really bulky and slow!). He was a professional recording engineer, and recorded his own piano music at home. I used it to burn my very first VCDs (high school short film) and music cd compilations (I stole a few 550MB from his stash <- hell yeah 550MB TDK CD-R discs! About 60mins!) And yes those dates are real and not "invented"/"illusioned". :)

The office/studio I worked at had a G4 Quicksilver with a Pioneer A03 Superdrive, 2x DVD-R only. That was late 2001. And yes, I am a professional and I specialize in post-production and DVD design. Even though it wasn't my own I took care of that baby, and I loved the idea of burning DVD-Videos for clients. I also used it to burn my own and a director-friend's startup demo reels, and it really helped in getting quite a few jobs. We used Apple-branded MCC00RG20 (Verbatim DVD-R 2x Made in Singapore) and was our main workhorse until I got my own G4 Quicksilver (refurbished with a Pioneer A04) mid-2002. PCs were behind surely in the DVD burning department, but I got Macs so there. :P Too bad you PC guys only had DVD burners much later only by 2004, but I digress.

Macrovision wasn't essential for creating your own DVDs. I wasn't talking about duplicating pressed DVDs, but on creating my own - so the Macrovision issue is moot.

Pressed DVDs actually have varying qualities, and sometimes even burned SL DVDs have better optical qualities than some pressed discs (I stress "some"). I have DVDs from 2003 that are still readable (Apple-branded MCC01RG20) though I've already disposed of my older discs as they have been reburned onto newer, more "stable" discs. These are a combination of MCC03RG20 for videos (Verbatim 16x DVD-R) or MCC004 for data (Verbatim 16x DVD+R) along with a duplicate on HP-branded CMC MAG M01 (16x DVD+R) with ECC (error code correction) added. I wanted to use premium 8x Taiyo Yudens although wala akong makuhanan (for now). I'll know by 2012 (5 years from backup - I did it in 2007) if my kapraningan works. ;D And I store my discs vertically, with dehumidifiers (aka. silica gel :P), away from light. Love of work + love of data/backups + love of burning = lots of burned discs.  8)

Thanks for your inputs!  I had no idea that media IDs are being faked.

Until I read your posts, I never bothered doing a physical comparison of the discs, since I thought a media ID check was sufficient.



Comparing the Illusion with my Verbatim, here are the differences I noticed:

- The hub codes are different;
- The dye colors are different -- Verbatim is redder; Illusion is bluer; and
- The inner edge of the dye is smooth on the Verbatim, wavy on the Illusion.

On a side-by-side physical check, the Illusion definitely looks like a fake MKM.  Ang masasabi ko lang ay bagay na bagay pala ang pangalang "Illusion"   :P


I don't get it.  Why would Mitsubishi make A-grade and B-grade discs with the same MKM 003 ID?  If they don't use a different ID for the B-grade disc, doesn't that defeat the very purpose of using a media ID?


Tama si sir evo69.  A successful burn is not good enough if the disc will quickly become unreadable.

That's what I said in 2006 when more members were more interested in low price than quality:

 ;)

All discs aren't made equal. They also vary depending on location (Taiwan/India/Japan/China/Mexico/various locations in Europe/Malaysia/Thailand - some that I remember) and depending on manufacturing plant (Verbatim has 4 manufacturers making discs using Mitsubishi Technology - CMC Taiwan (Plants A, 6, and 7), Prodisc, Moser Baer India, and Taiyo Yuden). From these there are varying grades that are sold to different "brands". Buying Verbatim or Mitsubishi-branded discs will ensure that you will get A-grade MCC media, and other brands are sold the lower quality batches. For example CMC MAG M01 can be found under imation, Philips, HP, TDK, Maxell, Memorex, and other unknown brands. CMC MAG AM3 is also used by many manufacturers. Buying a known "good" brand will somewhat give you a better chance of getting quality media - HP-branded discs are more reliable in the burning department than imation. Brands do not make their own discs - except for Verbatim (supplies its own technology to disc manufacturers) and Taiyo Yuden (which makes their own media in Japan only). Media Codes (MID) can be faked by a DVD pre-writer from the "faker's" plant to make sure it has "some" compatibility with a burner using another well-supported code, but does not ensure its quality and reliability. The "stamped" codes (inner hub and outer hub) of the DVD cannot be faked as these come from the machine itself, and properly identifies the maker/type of DVD manufacturing equipment used. Verbatim has a universal outer hub code for a disc series, while the stampers for the polycarbonate on the inner hub are almost like signatures for the plant's equipment (PAPA/PAP6/PAP7 for DVD+R or MAPA/MAP6/MAP7 for DVD-R - CMC Taiwan, xxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxx or xxxxxxxx+xxxxxxxx for DVD-R or DVD+R respectively - Prodisc Taiwan). Knowing these will certainly help in the decision of buying discs, that which I am addicted to (have around 1700 blanks - so I know what I'm buying).

For what it's worth, buying Made in Japan Verbatims will get you real Taiyo Yudens - although these are considered to be B-grade TY discs. Funny, ain't it? But still, they're Taiyo Yudens! :) A- or B-grade doesn't matter as much with TY blanks as with other lesser-quality media. ;D

Just curious, how much is the price range of good quality DVD-R in the Philippines right now?

The only 2 brands clearly marked "Made in Japan" (in Japan) are those made by Taiyo Yuden and TDK, and the cheapest price is about 17 pesos per disk.   Even though Taiyo Yuden is recognized in Japan as the most premier DVD-R mare, I prefer TDK because Taiyo Yuden's brand sounds corny (THATS).   ;D

Last time I bought Mitsubishi Chemicals' DL disks (made in Singapore), I had to shell out about 160 pesos per disk kaya I still dont back-up with DL disks. 

Taiyo Yuden are only Made in Japan, any other that claims it is TY but not Made in Japan is clearly fake. "That's Write" is TY's in-house brand marketed by That's Fukushima, Japan. Other well-known TY are Panasonic 16x DVD-R and Fujifilm DVD-/+R (only 8x and Made in Japan, Fuji has moved to using other manufacturers for 16x discs). If you buy it online you'll pay around 17-19 pesos per single-layer disc (without shipping though!). Taiyo Yuden supposedly made DVD-R DL discs (TYG11) pero wala akong makita anywhere, they're primarily on the SL disc-making business lang ata. TDK also made its own in-house "dye" but quickly used other dyes only recently - so be wary of TDK blanks, not all are TY/TDK (not Made in Japan is the obvious 'hint'). Discs from Verbatim's Singapore plant are only DL (MKM001 2.4x/MKM003 8x) due to production limitations (size, maliit lang Singapore and mahal ang lote! ;)) - which explains why they outsource to CMC Taiwan (probably the world's biggest manufacturer of optical discs). Due to DL being a relatively "new" optical disc technology, SL pa rin ang recommended dahil "subok" na (and they're a hella lot cheaper noh!).

In the Philippiines, the high-quality discs are Verbatim and Imation.  I think they're all Taiwan-made. 

Experienced users still say Taiyo Yuden is the best, but it's hard to find here; besides, they say that new Verbatims have even better standalone compatibility than Taiyo-Yuden. 

So in the Philippines, Verbatim (MCC and MKM) is regarded as the best; Imation (CMC Mag and MKM) is second-best.  Hindi sikat ang TDK dito.   

Verbatim, I agree. imation... hindi masyado. They use a lot of different disc-manufacturers and are variable quality. imation only designs their discs and doesn't manufacture them, and they don't get A-grade discs like HP or Maxell from CMC Taiwan. On the compatbility aspect - yes, Verbatims are more compatible than Taiyo Yudens (mas maganda lang ang basic disc characteristics ng Taiyo Yuden kesa Verbatim pero Verbatim dyes/polycarbonate/reflective layers are designed to be more compatible with standalone devices, Taiyo Yuden are more "reliable" and stable sa disc longevity). On imation using MKM (MCC code is for SL, MKM is for DL), 2.4x lang yun and gumagamit din sila ng RICOHJPND00 (maganda Ricoh in my experience, I like their single-layer RICOHJPN03 16x DVD+R) code sa 2.4x nila na DL so it's not a sure thing na you'll get MKM when you buy imation 2.4x 8.5GB DVD+R DL. Yung 8x naman nila gumagamit ng Ritek - [rant] I don't trust Ritek DVDs (pero maganda CDs nila) lalo na yung ARITA 8X 4.7GB DVD-R (Ritek G05) na binebenta sa CD-R King. Good luck kung aabot ng a few months or even a year - meron iba a few weeks lang di na readable. (Sorry - [/rant])

Sooo... Verbatim ensures that you get quality Verbatim-technology media (buying Mitsubishi is the same, mas kilala lang ang Verbatim sa US and EU) and not unlike other discs na hindi ka sigurado kung ano makukuha mo. Taiyo Yuden is the same deal, that is, if you can find some authentic ones. Buying other brands (lalo na imation - Prodisc, MBI, Ritek, CMC, Fuji, Optodisc, Ricoh... at kung ano pang dye/manufacturer/ekek!) is like playing lotto - di mo alam kung panalo ka hehehe. So if you're a CD-R King guy (or makakahanap ng place na pwede yung "tingi" sa DVD), buy two each of the branded ones and try them out on your drives and standalones. Use DVD Identifier para at least alam mo kung ano yung disc. When unsure, go to Videohelp's DVD Media Database to check disc infos. Marami ding ibang forums online that specialize on blank media, like CDFreaks or CDRLabs (actually marami pang iba, Google is your friend).

I hope this helps, di nagpapalaki ng ulo, pero I know what I'm saying kasi I invest in blank DVDs, and dahil kuripot ako, I get the best bang for my buck. Kung may makikita kayong guy sa mga CD-R King or sa mga other bentahans ng blank optical media na matagal nagiisip (dahil kuripot nga at ayaw magsayang ng pera) at maraming hinahakot (yung umaabot ng libulibong gastos pang DVD/CD lang), ako na iyon. ;)


Signed,

evo69 (adik sa dibidi at sidi, kolektor at tagaubos ng quality media) :D
« Last Edit: Sep 09, 2008 at 02:02 PM by evo69 »