Author Topic: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??  (Read 16104 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline markmlists

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2006 at 06:12 PM »
Thanks TonyC for your previous response.
BTW (to anyone), ano ang tube complement ng Musika?
Also, any initial reviews sa sound?

Salamat

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2006 at 07:18 AM »
12AT7 ang gamit ng Musika.

Maganda daw ayon sa mga nakarinig.

Offline markmlists

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2006 at 09:23 AM »
12AT7 ang gamit ng Musika.

Maganda daw ayon sa mga nakarinig.

Maraming salamat sir Arnold. Hanga ako sa pagiging 'game' mo sa topic.

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2006 at 10:08 AM »
i'm just honest bro. sometimes brutally honest, and that gets me into trouble :D

when my friend's musika is done, he'll bring it to my place. not to torture it, or anything like that, but to aprreciate a creation just like anything else.

Offline ATJr.

  • Trade Count: (+45)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,328
  • Leach Amp fan!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2006 at 10:50 AM »
without giving away "trade secrets" i can look at both pre-amps and do a review, i can give you topology but will not reveal the circuit. and then you form your own opinions after.

tubes are not that hard to figure out. the tono violin, judging from the tube compliments could very well be an iteration of the foreplay albiet with octals. the musika otoh have more tubes, so i guess it could very well be gain stage cum follower type but with more stages.

just a few minutes under the chassis, and one can figure out the circuit. the violin is more like a choice of parts, the musika i still have to see. ;D
That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline markmlists

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2006 at 11:00 AM »
without giving away "trade secrets" i can look at both pre-amps and do a review, i can give you topology but will not reveal the circuit. and then you form your own opinions after.

tubes are not that hard to figure out. the tono violin, judging from the tube compliments could very well be an iteration of the foreplay albiet with octals. the musika otoh have more tubes, so i guess it could very well be gain stage cum follower type but with more stages.

just a few minutes under the chassis, and one can figure out the circuit. the violin is more like a choice of parts, the musika i still have to see. ;D


Sir Tony , your thoughts on Musika's use of tube regulation please. I understand you havent seen what's under the hood but as I heard, very few implement this method-worldwide. Any thoughts, opinions welcome.

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2006 at 11:55 AM »
tony, there are no trade secrets with tubes.

GC/CF configuration has been around since tubes were invented  ;D Conrad Johnson uses them, as well as many other commercial vendors. Bottlehead uses them but I don't agree that the GC/CF circuit should be credited to them. There's nothing special with the Foreplay, it sounds good to give credit where credit is due.

While the Violin was tuned by ear, we have the necessary measurements to back it up. So I should say that there was some design thought (not copy cat) put into that product, and of course we have quality parts, that's a fact.

The Musika has more tubes because of the mm phono section. Yes, it is tube regulated, it is a fact. The Violin has a more traditional passive CLCLC, it is a fact. No need to hide that.

We can speak in technical terms, fine, but when taken as an entire package, it all becomes subjective ;)

Gusto kong i-half-topic ng konti... I would like to challenge any preamp, including the Musika, AMX, Conrad Johnson, Manley, what have you, against my single stage triode preamp with constant current source, constant current bias, and MOSFET regulation. ;D

(di ko sinabing mananalo yung akin ha, challenge lang) he he he
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006 at 12:02 PM by arnoldc »

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2006 at 02:03 PM »
arnold,

dyan ako takot bro sa pagiging "brutally honest" mo! ;D


i'm just honest bro. sometimes brutally honest, and that gets me into trouble :D

when my friend's musika is done, he'll bring it to my place. not to torture it, or anything like that, but to aprreciate a creation just like anything else.

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2006 at 02:08 PM »
tube regulator?

that's what i'm using with my preamp! :) ;D



Sir Tony , your thoughts on Musika's use of tube regulation please. I understand you havent seen what's under the hood but as I heard, very few implement this method-worldwide. Any thoughts, opinions welcome.

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2006 at 02:32 PM »
tube regulator?

that's what i'm using with my preamp! :) ;D



fdegrove yan no? la akong makuhang ganyan tube kaya di ko ma try... :(

Offline bumblebee

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,371
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2006 at 02:36 PM »
fdegrove yan no? la akong makuhang ganyan tube kaya di ko ma try... :(

OT: for those who already tried,

how's frank's vs the aikido?

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2006 at 03:31 PM »
jojod has john broskie's aikido...

s2kov has fdegrove ultimate...

arnoldc has "my own"  ;D ;D ;D

KELAN ANG SHOOTOUT??  ;D

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2006 at 03:34 PM »
yes, it's frank's preamp design. i'm not sure others will like the sound since the linestage is just producing a passive sound! :)

of course, the phonostage is a different thing! ;D


fdegrove yan no? la akong makuhang ganyan tube kaya di ko ma try... :(

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2006 at 03:37 PM »
NAKU! :o

pwede ba tayu tayo lng para sikreto yung nde magustuhan tunog! ;D


jojod has john broskie's aikido...

s2kov has fdegrove ultimate...

arnoldc has "my own"  ;D ;D ;D

KELAN ANG SHOOTOUT??  ;D

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2006 at 03:54 PM »
ayos lang yan andy. sige tayo tayo at wag na lang natin sabihin... he he he

Offline JojoD818

  • Trade Count: (+147)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,558
  • Bring it on!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 57
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #45 on: May 03, 2006 at 04:13 PM »
I also have a rendition of Frank's preamp in stock form before but was dismantled.

I also have a rendition of Frank's preamp with SY's constant current source and MOSFET pass regulator.

arnold,

yan "my own" mo yun originaly single triode then evolved to ccs and fet regulator? or did you used a different tube altogether?

btw, what's the difference with a constant current source and a constant current bias?

cheers

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #46 on: May 03, 2006 at 04:51 PM »
ayuz! cge eto entry ko! ;D




ayos lang yan andy. sige tayo tayo at wag na lang natin sabihin... he he he

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #47 on: May 03, 2006 at 05:02 PM »
jojod, different tube yan. kagabi lang yan, muntik pang masira  ;D ginamitan ko ng loadline calculation yan hah! dahil wala yang tube na yan sa TubeCAD   ;D ;D ;D

constant current source, constant current bias = marketing ek ek to confuse the newbies :P

andy, hindi pa pogi an ang laban ha?  ;D i-post ko bukas yung preamp ko  ;D
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006 at 05:07 PM by arnoldc »

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #48 on: May 03, 2006 at 05:14 PM »
ahh.....hahahaha! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

yan lng yata pwede ko ilaban eh! ;D



andy, hindi pa pogi an ang laban ha?  ;D i-post ko bukas yung preamp ko  ;D

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2006 at 05:19 PM »
andy, don't think of this as laban/competition no it's not. it's about hearing different preamps. aba fdegrove design ata yan, john broskie yung aikido, so it will be an honor hearing them.

Offline s2kov

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,224
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2006 at 05:21 PM »
ayuz, tanggal ang kaba ko kpag ganyan! ;D

andy, don't think of this as laban/competition no it's not. it's about hearing different preamps. aba fdegrove design ata yan, john broskie yung aikido, so it will be an honor hearing them.

Offline ATJr.

  • Trade Count: (+45)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,328
  • Leach Amp fan!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #51 on: May 04, 2006 at 03:51 AM »

Sir Tony , your thoughts on Musika's use of tube regulation please. I understand you havent seen what's under the hood but as I heard, very few implement this method-worldwide. Any thoughts, opinions welcome.

nothing new in regulation of the preamp, i know that as early as 1980, audio research used bipolars and zener diode strings to regulate the psu of their pre-amp.

there is nothing that we in manila can think of that they in the states haven't done before. there is no shame in that, the deal is to come with products that give the end-buyers good value for the money, that is all there is to this. ;D
That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline markmlists

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Collector
  • **
  • Posts: 224
  • Hi, I'm new here!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #52 on: May 04, 2006 at 04:37 AM »
nothing new in regulation of the preamp, i know that as early as 1980, audio research used bipolars and zener diode strings to regulate the psu of their pre-amp.

there is nothing that we in manila can think of that they in the states haven't done before. there is no shame in that, the deal is to come with products that give the end-buyers good value for the money, that is all there is to this. ;D

Salamat sir ..
I was just wondering why there are very few implementations then and now... Nakakataka lang. Baka kako.. mahirap gawin/konti lang may alam gumawa or mahirap maghanap ng tube regulators,  etc..


Senyors Andy, Jojo and Arnold, puedeng maki-kinig sa session? :)

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #53 on: May 04, 2006 at 07:39 AM »
mark, lahat halos ng commercial products talagang pinaghusayan ang power supply. if you look at conrad johnson's PV10A for example, matindi ang power supply but the circuit is the common grounded cathode->cathode follower.

meron mga tao, gusto tube rectifier, pag may diode ayaw bilhin. isa pang reason, minsan gusto mag tube roll sa rectifier.

yung tube regulation, kailangan ng extrang mga tubo for that, which means additional filament load, additional heat, additional sockets, atbp. samantalang kung passive regulation, choke and or resistor + capacitor, ayos ka na. of course may limitation with this.

kung solid state regulation, syempre may additional parts din, yun nga lang mas maliit sya, less heat, no additional transformer winding, atbp.

kanya kanya yan eh. sabi nga ni tony, pareho lang yan (tube vs. solidstate regulation)

re: listening session, fine with me. alternatively, you can drop by the house if you want to listen to the rest of my gears, dito lang ako sa makati.

Offline ATJr.

  • Trade Count: (+45)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,328
  • Leach Amp fan!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #54 on: May 04, 2006 at 09:30 AM »
Salamat sir ..
I was just wondering why there are very few implementations then and now... Nakakataka lang. Baka kako.. mahirap gawin/konti lang may alam gumawa or mahirap maghanap ng tube regulators,  etc..


Senyors Andy, Jojo and Arnold, puedeng maki-kinig sa session? :)

we have the same situation with ss amps, uso-uso lang yan, so now the fad is becoming regulated psu, people are never content with what they have, we have that "keeping up with the jones'es" mentality that is why people always have something to look up for..

me, i see no reason why you have to go regulated psu, when the one you have now works just fine. upgrading does not always bring good results, just different ones.

if you know  your electronics coupled with thevenin and nortons's theories, then regulated psu's are a walk in the park.
That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #55 on: May 04, 2006 at 09:35 AM »
tony, the reason i can't just "walk in the park" is i only know Norton's...

Anti-virus  ;D
« Last Edit: May 04, 2006 at 09:36 AM by arnoldc »

Offline ATJr.

  • Trade Count: (+45)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,328
  • Leach Amp fan!
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #56 on: May 04, 2006 at 10:13 AM »
tony, the reason i can't just "walk in the park" is i only know Norton's...

Anti-virus  ;D

 ;D these regulator thing are just but applications of know theories, nothing mysterious about them. and as with others you learn by doing.

That's OK, you can like or dislike anything you choose. That's the wonderful thing about the freedom

Offline rascal101

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,366
  • Naraniag nga aldaw kinyayo amin
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #57 on: May 04, 2006 at 10:25 AM »
Sir Arnoldc, iyung bagong pre-amp niyo ba magiging Tono Violin II? Or i-uupgrade lang iyung Violin?

Offline arnoldc

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • DVD Addict
  • ***
  • Posts: 643
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #58 on: May 04, 2006 at 10:48 AM »
rascal, meron akong ginawa na isang preamp noon pa for myself na naging basis ng isa pang preamp for Tono. It's the Tono Piano na di pa nilalabas, pero dinala ko na yan nung last Hi-Fi show 2005. Yan yung isang tambak na iteration at listening test ang nangyari, kasi di nila gusto yung tunog nung una, ha ha ha!

Yung preamp na natapos ko kagabi ay iba din, at hindi yan considered as Tono product.

Meron din akong Foreplay na nasa hiraman, at 12B4 na nasa hiraman din. Kaya ako gumawa ng bago dahil pag uwi ko ng bahay nung Martes eh di ako makapatugtog at ala pala akong preamp :D

Yung Violin 2, naka MOSFET regulation, series pass. Upgrade lang yan.

nangako nga pala ako ng picture for andy...

« Last Edit: May 04, 2006 at 10:53 AM by arnoldc »

Offline rascal101

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • PinoyDVD Legend
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,366
  • Naraniag nga aldaw kinyayo amin
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 41
Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2006 at 10:52 AM »
Mahirap talaga kapag maraming humihiram ... lalo na kapag ayaw isoli ...  ;D

Mahirap din iyung maraming puwedeng ipahiram  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: May 04, 2006 at 10:54 AM by rascal101 »