Author Topic: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??  (Read 16144 times)

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Offline TonyC

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Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« on: Apr 23, 2006 at 07:34 PM »
These two great fil. products have been in the market for a few months now, with the Trodt Fire Musika coming out a bit later....would appreciate hearing from those fortunate enough to hear both, which of the two they prefer and why....I've been waiting for opinions on this over at WS but it seems nobody wants to break the ice.

Am not trying to start a war between these two great products but am sure one of these two is slightly better than the other and it would be nice to hear from the experts which product they prefer and why.

Cheers :)

Offline Abad Santos 7

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #1 on: Apr 23, 2006 at 08:13 PM »
Both gears are good and have their own characteristics.

Being a newbee on tubes, it is very hard to comment since this might create and start the WWIII on audio here in Philippines.

Heard both but will keep my slience  :-X since being a newbee, I might be wrong.

Will just leave to the expert/audiophile the comments section.

To date I am just looking and scouting the "tamang" combo if (pre-amp-main) Tube-SS or Tube-Tube to power up a floor stander.

Cheers.

Offline markmlists

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #2 on: Apr 23, 2006 at 10:25 PM »
These two great fil. products have been in the market for a few months now, with the Trodt Fire Musika coming out a bit later....would appreciate hearing from those fortunate enough to hear both, which of the two they prefer and why....I've been waiting for opinions on this over at WS but it seems nobody wants to break the ice.

Am not trying to start a war between these two great products but am sure one of these two is slightly better than the other and it would be nice to hear from the experts which product they prefer and why.

Cheers :)

Hi TonyC.

What are their individual prices?

Thanks.

Offline oweidah

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #3 on: Apr 23, 2006 at 10:28 PM »
nice to have a chance to read reviews of these proudly pinoy products.
and how will they fare kaya with AMX and JD labs preamps?
Lets hear it guys!
Proudly Penoy Preamps  ;D ;D ;D

* specs and features muna please...kumbaga sa boxing in this corner! ;D
« Last Edit: Apr 23, 2006 at 10:36 PM by oweidah »

Offline bumblebee

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #4 on: Apr 23, 2006 at 11:20 PM »
Both gears are good and have their own characteristics.

Being a newbee on tubes, it is very hard to comment since this might create and start the WWIII on audio here in Philippines.

Heard both but will keep my slience  :-X since being a newbee, I might be wrong.

Will just leave to the expert/audiophile the comments section.

To date I am just looking and scouting the "tamang" combo if (pre-amp-main) Tube-SS or Tube-Tube to power up a floor stander.

Cheers.

Subjective naman e. You can't be wrong ;)

Offline TonyC

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #5 on: Apr 24, 2006 at 07:08 AM »
Hi Markmlists,

I think both are P18k, don't know much about their specs, but both are enjoying good reviews over at WS. Musika, however features a tube regulated power supply which i've heard from some gives it a different flavor.

Hi Abad S7, ok lang kahit newbie, doesn't mean you have to give an analytical evaluation.  I've been an audio fan for so many years already and always gets awed at the way those gurus give out their reviews but i still consider myself a newbie as I still figure out most of the time what the heck they all mean.   So, everybody's opinion is encouraged, whether lame or insanely clinical....the more the better.

Cheers :D


Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #6 on: Apr 24, 2006 at 07:30 AM »
Specs and measurements of the Tono Violin and all Tono products will be published at Wiredstate.

You can use that as a guide.

At saka we don't mind if our products are compared with another. We don't say it's the best, all  we can say is that there's always room for improvement. Mind you, there are other projects in our lab that has yet to come out to the market.
« Last Edit: Apr 24, 2006 at 07:38 AM by arnoldc »

Offline TonyC

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #7 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 07:44 AM »
Specs and measurements of the Tono Violin and all Tono products will be published at Wiredstate.

You can use that as a guide.

At saka we don't mind if our products are compared with another. We don't say it's the best, all  we can say is that there's always room for improvement. Mind you, there are other projects in our lab that has yet to come out to the market.

Thanks, hope we can encourage some feedback.  It seems many are intimidated when it comes to WS products, being concerned more on the personalities behind the product rather on the product itself.  Hope this change soon.   I've been happily using the Tono 12au7 for a few months now and thought i should have waited a bit for the Violin...but then again comes musika...wow when will it end.

For the consumers on a tight budget, it's only on forums like this that we can get better educated and informed on these products......more power to the local designers :)


Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #8 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 11:33 AM »
It will only end when you want to.

When there is a new product that's getting some rave reviews I always take it with a bucket of salt. It does not mean the new one is always better, but when you hear something new to your ears, you might thought it's better. Di ba?

Know what you really want. In my case I always wanted to have a neutral setup from source to preamp, so I can hear the sound (or differences in sound) of my amps. If you want a colored preamp, then most likely yun ang hahanapin mo. Also, don't be influenced by reviews or friends. Kanya kanya tayo ng gusto.

If you don't know what you want to achieve in audio, not even god can help you :) You probably stop when you don't have money.

ps.

Intimidated? Most of you don't know when we make a design we are (the Tono Men) the strongest critique. I remember when I got a comment from another who said, "ang sakit naman sa tenga ng tunog nyan" and we always take it as positive so that we can improve on the product. On the third iteration of the prototype biglang sabi "o anong ginawa mo maganda na ah."

Ganun talaga, kailangan pintasan. Kami ang numero uno pintasero ng product namin and we know the strenghts and weaknesses. Yung weaknesses, sometimes kailangan tanggapin because of design constraints, minsan pwede improve. Pero we also have products of the others kaya alam din namin how they perform ;D

pps.

You also cannot discount the fact na may affiliation ang iba. May maka Mang Rod, may maka Rene, may maka AMX. Ganun talaga, influenced na agad.
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006 at 11:47 AM by arnoldc »

Offline TonyC

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #9 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 12:15 PM »
Totally agree with all points raised ;D.....maybe those w/AMX experience as well can put in their 2 cents worth, sorry am not in the know of AMX gears, hence did not mention this.....cheers :)

Offline odyopayl

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #10 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 12:32 PM »
Nice Idea TonyC. I Believe they are both Great pre-amps, but still it's a matter of Choice!
Lets start with this:

Musika



Tono Violin

« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006 at 12:38 PM by odyopayl »
odyopayl
octaver (wiredstate)

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #11 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 12:51 PM »
It's always healthy to have criticism preferably constructive. It is impossible to design a product that meets everyone's expectations.

Offline odyopayl

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #12 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 12:54 PM »
Specs of Tono: (Based on the designer)

- massive chassis about 2-3x heavier and bigger than the current Tono pre-amp (12au7)

- octal triode design! sound is BIG, extended, dynamic and musical

- premium parts. apart from our standard premium capacitors, we will be using premium carbon-film resistors (costing 10x the regular) and hi-end internal wiring and solder

- exclusive design by Tono Team, extensively tested and tuned for audiophiles

- unique innovative circuit design (sorry, we can't give details )

- tube rectified, dual inductors, massive capacitance

- specifically designed to respond to tube-rolling...so it's like having several pre-amps in one chassis

- export quality. this is already much awaited by a dealer in the USA!

- will challenge ANY preamp in the $1-3k range. may put your "hi-end" pre-amp to shame

we are proud to say, this might as well be your last pre-amp to ever buy.

trust us, do NOT buy any pre-amp yet until you see, feel and listen to this pre-amp.

now, the good news: introductory price will not exceed 20k (USA SRP = $1,200-1,500)


ATTENTION: Can't find specs of Musika pls. post it here thanks.

NOTE: This is not to start WAR between this two good Pre-amps. I believe they have different characteristics since they are using different Tubes.  This is just like a choice between the Ford Focus & New Honda Civic with the same engine size.

Musika --------Php 17,500.00
Tono Violin----Php 18,000.00
odyopayl
octaver (wiredstate)

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #13 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:02 PM »
Sir Odyopayl,

Can't find the specs of the Tono Violin either. I thought, specs read something like this:

THD?
Input line voltage range?
Gain vs frequency?
Frequency response?
Power consumption?
Inrush current protection?
Bulk OVP protection?
E-cap life?
MTBF?
Power factor?
Output impedance?

Also, does it necessarily mean that premium parts equal good engineering? Or are premium parts being used to cover the circuit/layout limitations?
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:08 PM by rascal101 »

Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #14 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:07 PM »
odyopayl, hindi technical specs yan kundi marketing specs ;)

rascal, pahiram na kasi ng testing gears mo! :D

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #15 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:18 PM »
Sir Arnoldc,

I use Simetrix simulation software extensively during development. Nga lang I don't do tubes kasi and the models present are primarily semiconductor based. When necessary, I perform bench test at the office. Mahal iyung gain phase analyzer, oscilloscope and power meter. Wala rin akong budget.

Some of the circuits naman are based on previous projects so no need to test this.
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:18 PM by rascal101 »

Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #16 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:50 PM »
I have the squeare wave response of the Violin at 40Hz, 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 20kHz.

Anybody interested?

Soon, I can provide you with the frequency response, dynamic range, THD, IMD, Crosstalk, and channel balance.

Offline s2kov

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #17 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 01:59 PM »
rascal101,

nadali mo! ;D i'm expecting someone will ask what really the specs are! ;)


Sir Odyopayl,

Can't find the specs of the Tono Violin either. I thought, specs read something like this:

THD?
Input line voltage range?
Gain vs frequency?
Frequency response?
Power consumption?
Inrush current protection?
Bulk OVP protection?
E-cap life?
MTBF?
Power factor?
Output impedance?

Also, does it necessarily mean that premium parts equal good engineering? Or are premium parts being used to cover the circuit/layout limitations?

Offline s2kov

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #18 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:03 PM »
does it mean that you are not really seeing the actual graph across the frequencies?


Sir Arnoldc,

I use Simetrix simulation software extensively during development. Nga lang I don't do tubes kasi and the models present are primarily semiconductor based. When necessary, I perform bench test at the office. Mahal iyung gain phase analyzer, oscilloscope and power meter. Wala rin akong budget.

Some of the circuits naman are based on previous projects so no need to test this.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #19 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:05 PM »
I have the squeare wave response of the Violin at 40Hz, 100Hz, 1kHz, 10kHz and 20kHz.

Anybody interested?

Soon, I can provide you with the frequency response, dynamic range, THD, IMD, Crosstalk, and channel balance.

Paki post naman ng waveforms mo Sir Arnoldc.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #20 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:07 PM »
does it mean that you are not really seeing the actual graph across the frequencies?



The Simetrix software will let you plot the gain/phase response vs frequency. It can also do Monte Carlo analysis to show you the various curves based on the tolerances of components.

How well does Simetrix compare vs bench? If we are talking complete PSU, not very accurate. If we are talking parts of a PSU eg PFC circuit, DC-DC etc quite accurate. If we are talking EMI, not very accurate.
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:12 PM by rascal101 »

Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #21 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:11 PM »
Paki post naman ng waveforms mo Sir Arnoldc.
surely bukas, nasa memstick naiwan sa bahay :-)

Offline TonyC

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #22 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:12 PM »
Nice Idea TonyC. I Believe they are both Great pre-amps, but still it's a matter of Choice!
Lets start with this:

Musika



Tono Violin



...HANEP SA GANDA...sino kaya may edge???

Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #23 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:19 PM »
Simetrix? Ito ba yung kay Catena? Spice din yan di ba?

I use LT Spice, may mga tube models na ;)

Offline odyopayl

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #24 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:26 PM »
Sir Odyopayl,

Can't find the specs of the Tono Violin either. I thought, specs read something like this:

=========================================================================

Initial Specs are been posted either marketing still considered specs. Anyway, lets hope Sir Arnold  will post the TECHNICAL SPECIFICATION
odyopayl
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Offline john5479

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #25 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:34 PM »
Both look good, the violin with the minimalist look but i dig how the wood sidings and knobs look on the musika.

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #26 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:42 PM »
Simetrix? Ito ba yung kay Catena? Spice din yan di ba?

I use LT Spice, may mga tube models na ;)

Yes and yes.

Offline arnoldc

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #27 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:45 PM »
Yes and yes.
Nakow, kamahal nyan... $3,000 ata ang basic nyan.

Pang hobbyist lang ito :)

Offline rascal101

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #28 on: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:50 PM »
Ginagamit ko version 5.1 - free download, no expiration ... Limited iyung number of parts pero puwede na rin sa application ko. BTW, ginagamit ko rin ito pang audio design. Para siya kasing EWB in terms of simplicity pero halos PSPICE iyung capability. Dito ako nag model ng analog circuit ko para sa CDP (after DAC output). Gumamit ako ng discrete circuit.
« Last Edit: Apr 25, 2006 at 02:55 PM by rascal101 »

Offline odyopayl

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Re: Tono Violin vs. Musika Pre-amp??
« Reply #29 on: Apr 26, 2006 at 06:20 PM »
 :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::)
odyopayl
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