Author Topic: ONKYO AVR  (Read 532940 times)

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Offline bonjit

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #60 on: Aug 16, 2002 at 03:19 PM »
I went to the shops today and had a look for the Onkyo 797, I think I already decided on getting these one just have a couple of questions, so maybe you guys can help me, the binding posts at the back of the receiver, I had a look at it  and I don't think my banana jacks would be able to fit into it, what Onkyo technical support in Sydney told me is I have to take out the cover for the binding posts ??? which I doubt very much so if ever I buy these I cannot use my banana jacks anymore. Is there anybody there who has a 797 who can help me?

Bonjit

Offline old_age

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #61 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 08:31 AM »
Correction, hyperaudio. i totally agree with joeyhomey and LtGen.Almondski that the Onkyo 494 is only 55 watts X 5 and not 70 watts as some people think.  
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Offline Sen.Almondski

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #62 on: Sep 09, 2002 at 02:40 PM »
Correction, hyperaudio. i totally agree with joeyhomey and LtGen.Almondski that the Onkyo 494 is only 55 watts X 5 and not 70 watts as some people think.  


hi new_age ,

Welcome to PinoyDVD!

Btw, The Onkyo 494 is 55 watts x 5 in 8 ohms & 70 watts x 5 in 6 ohms. Since it was rated 6 ohms power output ( also printed at the back of AVR ) that's why people assumed its 70 watts power.  ;)

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Offline listener

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #63 on: Sep 09, 2002 at 06:49 PM »
Quote
Quote


hi new_age ,

Welcome to PinoyDVD!

Btw, The Onkyo 494 is 55 watts x 5 in 8 ohms & 70 watts x 5 in 6 ohms. Since it was rated 6 ohms power output ( also printed at the back of AVR ) that's why people assumed its 70 watts power.  ;)

LtGen. Almondski


Its another classic case of misleading the buyer into buying their product.  Why rate the receiver in 6 ohms whereas the majority of speakers available in the market are 8 ohms?  Good thing they didnt rate it in 4 ohms so that they (Onkyo) can slap on the "100 WATTS PER CHANNEL" sticker in the front panel and in the box. I was surprised to discover that Onkyo is resorting to such tactics ang gimmicks just to sell their receivers. Must be the competition huh.. :o

Offline old_age

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #64 on: Sep 10, 2002 at 08:31 AM »
Hi Listener!

You're right!  we share the same sentiments.  
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Offline Sen.Almondski

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #65 on: Sep 10, 2002 at 03:38 PM »
I don't know about the marketing style of Onkyo but i know their product that fits to my requirements, given example is the Onkyo 494 ( which i have ) , i choose this product as the result of my longtime  scouting,   audition & comparison, considering AVR performance, my home enviroment and my budget. Onkyo AVR like other brands of AVR does have respective power output in each model , from 55watts to 100+ watts power range ( in 8ohms ) so i guess they dont need to trick the buyer in terms of power since they have options to offer. The 494 and its equivalent will do for medium HT/listening room & they have the 898 if you have 4 ohms speakers, kaboom! that's sufficient enough to rock your neighbor's HT rooom. For me, there's no such thing as misleading if the buyer knows what they are buying.  ;)

My 2 cents
« Last Edit: Sep 10, 2002 at 03:41 PM by LtGen.Almondski »

Offline listener

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #66 on: Sep 10, 2002 at 11:04 PM »
I don't know about the marketing style of Onkyo but i know their product that fits to my requirements, given example is the Onkyo 494 ( which i have ) , i choose this product as the result of my longtime  scouting,   audition & comparison, considering AVR performance, my home enviroment and my budget. Onkyo AVR like other brands of AVR does have respective power output in each model , from 55watts to 100+ watts power range ( in 8ohms ) so i guess they dont need to trick the buyer in terms of power since they have options to offer. The 494 and its equivalent will do for medium HT/listening room & they have the 898 if you have 4 ohms speakers, kaboom! that's sufficient enough to rock your neighbor's HT rooom. For me, there's no such thing as misleading if the buyer knows what they are buying.  ;)

My 2 cents

LtGen.

Onkyo's Marketing division does not target individuals like you who know their homework. Prior to purchase you said you scouted, auditioned and compared products. I am assuming that you are quite knowledgeable about HT prior to purchasing your Onkyo that is why you chose the 494 simply because it fit your budget, power requirements and taste.  Onkyo's target market with these "deceiving" ratings are the "first timers" and those who are not that technically inclined.  Two receivers in front of you...one says 70watts x 5 and the other one says 50watts x 5..both are priced identically....which will you buy if you dont know jack about home theater?  Naturally the bang for your buck receiver will appeal to you more. If that is the case then Onkyo clinched the deal because of the false ratings of their receiver.  The poor buyer will then have a hard time finding speakers that can match the 6ohm rating so that the receiver that belt out its full 70watt power output otherwise he is stuck with the 55 watt output per channel. Short ended yung buyer di ba?

4 ohm speakers? HT has been my hobby for the past 5 years or so and during that span I have come across only a handful of speaker models sold here in the Phil  that has a 4 ohm rating: The KEF Reference Line circa 1997 (UniQ drivers) and the forgettable MB Quart HT lineup (thats why its on sale at MG Infinity) . Do you happen to know of any other quality HT speaker that has 4 ohms and can kaboom and rock my neighbors HT room using the Onkyo 898 receiver?

Offline old_age

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #67 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 08:49 AM »
Listener

I totally agree with your insights from top to bottom.  You seem to know your stuff so well.  We need people of your knowledge on HT on this forum,  I just hope that all these are for discussion purposes and would not lead to a hot argument.  I am also wondering why is Onkyo sticks with the 6 ohms capability ever since in the Philippine market, when great speakers  here are all rated 8 ohms.  A pity for first-timers.  For most of us here in this website, who seem to be very knowledgeable in the audio and HT set-up that is probably why we say "6 ohms is  ok!", but how about those who are still starting.  Spending their hard-earned money to a gear that they would regret in the end.  Remember, we all became "beginners" and you know how difficult it was to survive in getting the sound that we wanted.  
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Offline hyperaudio

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #68 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 09:55 AM »
hi guys,
i am not an expert on speaker design or amplifier
design but i can share some things i've learned during my 20 years in this business.
the issue on speaker impedance is really complicated and is subject to arguments (some heated, as we say; but we don't want that, we want to be enlightened).
afaik, the impedance of a speaker varies with the frequency it reproduces, say it may be flat to 8 ohms within 3 db from 1 khz to 15khz but dips to 4 ohm (or even to 2 ohms)  at low frequencies and falls to 6 ohms
at high frequencies. i just read the review of the psb alpha of the psb alpha a/v mini-monitor and the impedance vs frequency curve is a rollercoaster ride with the impedance tested & rated nominally at 6 ohms
and minimally at 5 ohms; a typical example of a fine-
sounding mini-monitor. Most speakers in the mission 70 series are rated at 8 ohms compatible but 4 ohm minimum, again the average impedance falls to 6 ohms.
So with b&w speakers, 8 ohms nominal and 3-5 ohms minimum, the average at 6 ohms. the JEITA (japan electronics and information technology industries association, formerly EIAJ) standard of rating amplifier power into 6 ohms is being used by ONKYO of which its a member. very logical way of rating, to say the least.
i hope that explains ONKYO receiver power rating
specs. more POWER (pun intended) to pinoy dvd and
members! keep that volume control always turning...

Offline Sen.Almondski

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #69 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 06:04 PM »
Looking back when I was starting in this hobby a year ago, I can say that I was the target of the AVR vendor because I don't know about HT and wide range of receivers & speakers. That time, I was inclined that the only name of good amplifier/receiver is Pioneer and the name of speaker is Bose. When I decided to start-up building my HT, only these two products are in my mind, I went to the showroom and I don't even bother to audition any longer because I already trusted the name. I found Pioneer 110w x 5,  being impressed with high power and that sounds good paired with Bose and it fits to my budget. Im impulsive buyer in nature, I couldn't wait especially if I have already cash in my hand and eager to bring home the stuff, which I believe pretty good for me, I control myself buying on that particular time. Prior to my plan of purchase,  I got chance to visit audioreview.com and then the Internet leads me that there are plenty of good HT stuff in the market, thru browsing I found Pinoydvd and related sites, then I learned how to spend time in reading HT magazine, HT audition and comparison and more patience of scouting.  Finally I ended up with Onkyo 494 55wx5 over other good choices of receivers such as Yamaha, Denon & HK. These are all with the same budget I had before with Pioneer 110wx5.  I learned and discovered big difference. The bottom line is, if the first timers like me in the beginning are aware of what they are buying then they will not be wrong in their purchase. The decent manufacturer hand-out their products according to the specification, if their product specify 55w in 8 ohms & 70w in 6 ohms and you are looking for 100 watt in 8 ohms then obviously this not the right stuff for you. Myself admit that the terms are confusing and im still trying to figure-out how it become deceiving as Listener claims in his posts.
I have my neighbor next door equipped by Onkyo paired with Linn 4 ohms speakers and I said kaboom! Because it used to rock even my HT wall, I don't like disturbing neighbor that's why I choose modest 55watt sufficient to medium size room and not risky enough to damage my kid's eardrum if they are playing around.
Its true that we are investing our hard-earned money and nobody wants to regret in the end and bring the fault on the vendor. To the beginners my humble advise is take your time and don't be impulsive, take advantage the benefit of the internet in your quest of looking for good HT stuff and try audition what you really need. There are many HT sites like this board designed for HT awareness especially for the first timers.   :)  ;)

LtGen

Offline listener

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #70 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 06:06 PM »
hyperaudio

Thank you for that very informative post on why the impedance load of an amplifier varies with the frequency of the sound that it is pumping out. Im sure a lot of readers will be amazed to know that their HT receiver at home can generate a good deal of power at 3 ohms or so for a millisecond while pumping out those XRCD's or DVD's. Your 20 years of experience in the BUSINESS provides you with the invaluable knowledge of such information. You stated in your post that Onkyo is a member of the JEITA. what other major A/V receiver manufacturer is a member of this organization? Is Denon a member of this association?
I have used a Denon receiver before and they rate their receivers at a real world nominal rating of 8 ohms.  I believe that Denon also can brandish their equipment with claims that it too can pump out considerable output with 6 ohms which you find to be a logical rating but they dont do so. Is it because they dont need to to resort to such tactics in order to sell their products and are comparing apples to apples? I believe that Onkyo deliberately using this 6 ohm rating for the sole purpose of gouging the eyes of the first time HT consumer.
This has been a long time problem in Audio and in HT. There is no governing body that tests and rates all audio products sold in the market.  There are independent testing labs like the ones that we read about in audio magazines but I believe that even those independent test labs that are hired by the magazine can be swayed to provide a "favorable" rating on a product in exchange for advertising contracts..  
Any audio manufacturer can slap on a "250 WATTS PER CHANNEL TOTAL POWER OUTPUT" sticker on the front panel and then continue the spec on the back of the unit with ".........250 watts / channel @ 4 ohms with 10% THD." and get away with it. I have even seen claims of 1000 watts of power from a portable Karaoke machine. Bear in mind that these companies are in it for the money...not satisfying our esoteric audio needs that is why they resort to unconventional marketing tactics like the ones I stated. Sad to say that in my book, Onkyo is now resorting to such gimmicks in order to sell their products.  

my .02 cents ;D
« Last Edit: Sep 11, 2002 at 06:13 PM by listener »

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #71 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 07:26 PM »
Mr. Listener,

     Denon(as well as Onkyo and Yamaha) is a full member of JEITA.  Kindly check the link below.

http://www.jeita.or.jp/english/member/list/def.htm


P.S.
I believe Mr. Hyperaudio's point was consumers shouldn't let the manufacturer's specs alone, be the weight-tilting basis of their purchases.  Everyone and their mommas know that there is a lot of horse sh!t lying around in manufacturer's ratings(e.g. PMPO anyone?).  If a person was "swindled" by Onkyo into getting their "higher-rated" equipment, part of the blame also lies on that buyer.  Did that person do his or her homework first and auditioned as many systems as possible?  Of course, the manufacturer(i.e. Onkyo) also is not scott-free innocent as a cucumber in this case,  However, unless one has a more clearer understanding of the JEITA standards, one simply cannot make random accusations.

It can be argued that incidents like this one can be avoided by a standard-regulating body.  However, as you have stated, there is but none, thus it's a "free-for-all" amongst the manufacturers.  Not trying to beat down a dead horse but more often than not, "The best solution is an audition."


Cheers,
Biggs

Offline gaol

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #72 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 07:50 PM »
hyperaudio

You stated in your post that Onkyo is a member of the JEITA. what other major A/V receiver manufacturer is a member of this organization? Is Denon a member of this association?
I have used a Denon receiver before and they rate their receivers at a real world nominal rating of 8 ohms.  I believe that Denon also can brandish their equipment with claims that it too can pump out considerable output with 6 ohms which you find to be a logical rating but they dont do so.


Well, err, actually, Denon does so. Publish output ratings at 6 ohms, that is.

The manual for my Denon AVR-1801 lists two different power output specs, one for 8 ohms and another for 6 ohms. The brochures I've downloaded from their site do the same.

But you're right. Denon is at least forthcoming. So as not to single out Onkyo, I've seen Yamaha AVR flyers where they conveniently publish only the dynamic (or peak) power rating and not RMS figures.

To confuse things even further, Hifi Choice notes that some published ratings are ratings at stereo settings (only two channels are active), which are higher, rather than with all channels active. This  was their minor criticism with regard to the Denon AVR-3300, but which was rectified, according to them, in its replacement product, the AVR-3801.

But in their latest roundup, it seems that actual power still does fall short because of other components like inadequate power supply. As an example, here's what they had to say of the Denon AVR-1602:


It's all in the specification. Denon rates its AVR-1602 at 70+70W (front), 70W (centre) and 70+70W (surround) but this is not the same as 70W through all five channels at the same time.

The power supply simply cannot sustain the added burden, so while it delivers 2x105W, this falls to 4x52W and just 5x35W into 8ohm.

An amplifier that really offers 5x70W+ will be a lot costlier, like the HK AVR5000.


Like the Denon, The Marantz SR5200 and the Onkyo DS595 dropped power considerably with all channels driven, while according to them the Harman Kardon and the NAD  T761 did not deviate much from their ratings.

Cheers!
GAOL

Offline listener

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #73 on: Sep 11, 2002 at 08:43 PM »
Guys

ang hirap pagkatiwalaan ng mga hapon pagdating sa audio ano?   ;D Sa video sources ok sila but when it comes to amplification....GO AMERICAN.  ;)
This discussion about the "ratings game" will never be put to rest until there is governing body that tests all audio equipment to be sold out the market and until such time, first time buyers will have to arm themselves with information about the product before pulling the trigger otherwise sorry ka na lang if you end up with unit that falls far below your expectations.  
 

Offline Sen.Almondski

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #74 on: Sep 12, 2002 at 11:55 PM »
Guys

ang hirap pagkatiwalaan ng mga hapon pagdating sa audio ano?   ;D Sa video sources ok sila but when it comes to amplification....GO AMERICAN.  ;)
This discussion about the "ratings game" will never be put to rest until there is governing body that tests all audio equipment to be sold out the market and until such time, first time buyers will have to arm themselves with information about the product before pulling the trigger otherwise sorry ka na lang if you end up with unit that falls far below your expectations.  
 

You got it Listener, If the buyer don't meet what they are looking for such stuff like Japanesse brands, they have their free will to go and look for it in another brand . If the first-timers will wait for the governing body to make sure the standard rating accuracy of thier prospective stuff, then i don't know how long they gonna hold thier money for purchase. For the meantime, first timers can do the same homework as other beginners do.  :) ;)

I coudn't say who's who in amplication, I still got no chance of experiencing  American brands of reciever to compare, but for sure Americans are doing good for automatic cars  ;)  ;D

Offline tABs

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Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #75 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 05:21 AM »
Onkyo TX-SR600 @ - Go or No Go?

Offline audio_tyro

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Re:Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #76 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 09:45 AM »
I'd say GO ! Highly recommended!


Offline tABs

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Re:Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #77 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 10:56 AM »
sorry...nde lumabas yun price tag, i meant to say:

Onkyo TX-SR600 (1,879 Saudi Rials = 26500 PHP)

go or no go?

How much is this unit's price in Manila? Kung pareho din lang dito or small difference, better na jan sa manila bumili...medyo mabigat din yan for check-in baggage

Thanks....

Offline Superman

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Re:Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #78 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 12:54 PM »
hi tabs!

you can get it here in manila between P23,500 to P25,000...thanks and happy receiver hunting! merry christmas! ;D
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Offline perds

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Re:Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #79 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 01:24 PM »
I agree with superman. Dito ka na lang bumili sa Pinas. Dito ka na rin mag audition ng mga speakers. I believe they package it there with the bose speaker system.

Offline sgc_wdi

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Re:Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #80 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 01:38 PM »
I saw this AVR selling for 2780 HK dollars... roughly around 19500 pesos.

Offline tABs

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Re:Onkyo TX-SR600
« Reply #81 on: Dec 17, 2002 at 04:57 PM »
thanks for the info guys, ur info's a big help. actually sale price pa nga yun 1879 rials, babalik sa dating presyo na 2200 rials end of dec. gud news un info nyo....thanks...nice to have pinoydvd.com! :)

Offline DViant

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #82 on: Dec 26, 2002 at 08:59 PM »
How much is the Onkyo TX-SR600 currently going for?

Would anyone know what speakers would match my Onkyo TX-SV525? I kinda lost the manual. :)

Offline sago

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #83 on: Jan 07, 2003 at 09:19 PM »
How much is the Onkyo TX-SR600 currently going for?

Would anyone know what speakers would match my Onkyo TX-SV525? I kinda lost the manual. :)

last week i called unique in Green Hills they said they have the sr600 @ P25.2K. is this a good deal?

Offline mdsaint3

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #84 on: Feb 08, 2003 at 03:29 PM »
does the onkyo ts 500 have a virtual effect for rear surround? im asking this since my speaker setup is not yet complete. i still dont have rear speakers. my old yamaha rx430 has this feature. would any onkyo ts500 owner pls advice? thanks  

are there any ts500 + wharfdale diamond series 8.1, center,etc owners here?

Offline nerveblocker

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #85 on: Feb 08, 2003 at 06:31 PM »
Try hyperaudio.  I got a good deal from him re: TXSR600 ;D

Offline mdsaint3

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #86 on: Feb 11, 2003 at 07:22 AM »
can an onkyo  txsr 500 power a wharfdale 8.3??? anyone with this set up?? thanks

Offline Skabyol

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #87 on: Feb 11, 2003 at 01:31 PM »
Hi Mdsaint,
Yung utol ko uses that model of onkyo to power his 8.3 fronts, diamond center and 8.1 surrounds...sounds good naman. And it can play loud.

But when in doubt use more power!...i first heard that when i was learning to drive, i guess applicable din sa HT...hehehe..

hope this helps.

Skabyol


Offline Digities

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #88 on: Feb 12, 2003 at 08:46 AM »
hi, how much ba average price ng 494 and where can i find it ?

Offline toyks

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Re:ONKYO AVR
« Reply #89 on: Feb 12, 2003 at 09:55 AM »
hi guys,

can anyone give me a comparison of onkyo receivers over denon... thanks! ;D