Author Topic: NTC, private sector working on transition to digital TV (Read 23420 times)

av_phile1 · « **Reply #30 on:** Sep 18, 2006 at 11:37 AM »

Quote from: barrister on Sep 18, 2006 at 10:58 AM

The NTC's power to issue authorizations and permits is merely regulatory in nature and cannot be so broad as to amend the franchise already issued by congress. To require a shift to digital broadcasting without congressional authority is beyond the scope of the NTC's regulatory powers and is confiscatory in nature because it is tantamount to being an unconstitutional deprivation of property without due process of law.

My thoughts exactly.

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Bos av_phile1, kung lawyer ka, kikita ka siguro sa kasong ito.

Ha ha !!

, I wish.

Thanks again Boss Barrister. Maybe we can form a coalition to bring the issue to the SC on behalf of TV stations wanting to prolong the status quo. Or on behalf of the masses who won't want their TV sets rendered obsolete or be required to spend for ADC boxes.

But I wouldn't want to stand in the way of progress. If the NTC has the power to shift to digital on its own, so be it. I just want to clear the cobwebs in my legalistic mind (should really have taken up law.

)

I think the NTC is proceeding the way the US FTC has - getting inputs from the people concerned. So if and when they issue the guidelines for the shift, they can get the cooperation of broadcasters. I am not aware if there was ever any legal challenge to the FTC's powers to implement this shift in the US. Too bad, nothing much happened as far as market shift to digital was. The broadcasters were ready, the consumers were not. And in Feb 2006, Bush signed a law mandating with finality the cutover date to Feb 17, 2009 for the shift to happen. No market attrition whatsoever.

It's the throng of masses out there who may not have the means to invest on digital TV sets by 2015 that I have my doubts will ever want this thing. And they could mount a legal challenge and prolong this from happening. Then again, maybe by 2015, if I can believe GMA, pinoys would all be rich enough for this to be a non-issue.

barrister · « **Reply #31 on:** Sep 18, 2006 at 11:59 AM »

For me, dapat wala munang mandatory shift. OK lang ang bagong digital TV operators, pero hindi muna bawal ang analog.

Ipagbawal nila ang analog after several years, pag marami nang may digital TVs at konti na lang ang may analog TVs. By then, mura na lang siguro ang digital TV sets, so hindi na masyadong nakakaasar ang mandatory shift.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #32 on:** Sep 18, 2006 at 12:18 PM »

I agree, the shift need not be mandatory. If fact, the two modes can coexist, and let the inferior format fade away by attirition. But I think there are also technical if not political reasons why the mandate was needed in the US and elsewhere The frequency ranges for their radio licensing requiements are depleting fast. Mandating the shift to digital will free-up the radio frequency spectrum now used by TV stations which the US Gov can now use for military and aerospace needs. And this has to be a world-wide thing, not just in the US for the military use of those freqeuncies to be effective. OR so I heard.

viper · « **Reply #33 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 02:58 PM »

Whether the shift to digital is mandatory or not, I still feel that business-entrepreneurs with existing TV franchises should be allowed go into digital television business without outright interference from vested interests in the executive and legislative branches. And to ensure a planned adoption/transition to this new tv technology, NTC must draw up the required operating guidelines for this service. As far as shut-ff dates are concerned, this should be the responsibility of Congress. I am 100% sure politicians with existing analog-tv franchises (but without the financial muscle to move to digital TV) would definitely not allow for a shut down in the next 10 years!

This is the ideal scenario I would like to see:

NTC issues the technical guidelines in the adoption of digitial television in the Philippines (The Technical Working Group of the NTC is skewing towards the European standard instead of the American standard)

Required frequencies are allotted for this purpose (They are looking at UHF Channels 49 to 51 for this)

TV networks with foresight and financial resources (ABSCBN, GMA, ABC) embarks on their respective digital rollout, strictly complying with the guidelines set by NTC (guidelines were issued by NTC in order to ensure interoperability of the set-top boxes required in homes to receive digital tv broadcasts)

Third party suppliers bring in the type-approved set top boxes to be sold to televiewers to allow reception of digital signals. Hopefully, boxes will be available at P1000 a piece. (This price would plummet if the boxes to be used is compatible with what Beijing will be adopting for the Olympics)

The financially challenged broadcasters (SBN?, UNTV?, NBN?) who chose to remain in analog (in the absence of a mandate from congress) will experience dwindling viewership as more viewers opt to watch TV signals in digital (I hope!

) Eventually forcing them out of business or to seek out partners that would finance their digital shift.

The big question now is the timeline. In the absence of a required shut off date, how long would it take for the analog players to fold and shift to digital? 5 years? 10? 20?

My fearless forecast? We will have digital tv in the next 18 months provided the NTC comes out with their guidelines and there is no interference from the government. Shut-off date? Bahala na congress dyan basta wag silang maki-alam sa digital roll-out. Risk na yan ng mga broadcasters to go digital even without a shut off date.

barrister · « **Reply #34 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 04:53 PM »

Magandang scenario 'yan. Everybody happy.

Kung magiging masyadong maaga ang mandatory cut-off date, diyan magkakaroon ng maiingay na mga reklamo.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #35 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 06:13 PM »

Once the TV stations start operating their digital gears, I expect both analog and digital broadcasts to coexist for quite a while. The NTC could include a conditional mandate for a cutover date just like what the US did, allowing for an escape condition if 85% of an area is not yet on digital.

There may be some minor complication though. With many industrialized nations shifting to digital TVs, expect TV manufacturers to start damping their unsold inventories of analog TVs and RPTVs in 3rd world countries. With cheap prices, every inday and pandoy will soon have 34" analog Philips, Sonys and Samsungs after 2009. And with that, it just might make pinoy masses more resistant to an early shift.

But I think if a congressman were to engage in the business of selling ADC set-top boxes, he just might sponsor the needed bill to mandate an earlier cutover date.

viper · « **Reply #36 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 06:29 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Sep 20, 2006 at 06:13 PM

There may be some minor complication though. With many industrialized nations shifting to digital TVs, expect TV manufacturers to start damping their unsold inventories of analog TVs and RPTVs in 3rd world countries. With cheap prices, every inday and pandoy will soon have 34" analog Philips, Sonys and Samsungs after 2009. And with that, it just might make pinoy masses more resistant to an early shift.

Just like what the japs and the sokors are doing dumping their 'surplus' tv sets here.

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But I think if a congressman were to engage in the business of selling ADC set-top boxes, he just might sponsor the needed bill to mandate an earlier cutover date.

Shhhhh, iyan ang balak kong raket kaya inip na ako sa NTC to come out with guidelines.

viper · « **Reply #37 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 06:38 PM »

Quote from: av_phile1 on Sep 18, 2006 at 11:37 AM

And in Feb 2006, Bush signed a law mandating with finality the cutover date to Feb 17, 2009 for the shift to happen.

Trivia lang, why Feb 17? Why not Feb1 or Feb 28 or Feb 14 (Mid Feb, not Valentines

)

Ans: Superbowl (Tama kaya?)

av_phile1 · « **Reply #38 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 09:45 PM »

Good question. I haven't the slightest idea. Must be his b-day or something.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #39 on:** Sep 20, 2006 at 09:54 PM »

Quote from: viper on Sep 20, 2006 at 06:29 PM

Just like what the japs and the sokors are doing dumping their 'surplus' tv sets here.

Only this time, they'd be brand new.

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Shhhhh, iyan ang balak kong raket kaya inip na ako sa NTC to come out with guidelines.

Mas mapapabilis yan if you get a congressman as a business partner.

ralfy · « **Reply #40 on:** Sep 24, 2006 at 09:05 PM »

On the other hand, given a peak oil phenomenon, things might go the other way.

Ice Storm · « **Reply #41 on:** Nov 05, 2006 at 08:59 PM »

NTC issues draft digital TV regulations
http://services.inq7.net/print/print.php?article_id=30660

NTC gives TV stations 9 years to convert to digital tech
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/storypage.aspx?StoryId=55179

NTC considering opening up digital TV content business
http://services.inq7.net/print/print.php?article_id=28070

krazy · « **Reply #42 on:** Nov 06, 2006 at 08:25 PM »

Good thing we didn't buy one of those imported HDTV's from the US with the built-in HD (ATSC) tuner as the NTC has chosen the European DVB-T standard for (H)DTV in the Philippines which is incompatible with the US ATSC system

Not to mention there's a chance that broadcasters here could go with MPEG4 when they go digital in a few years in order to save on bandwidth like what's being done for HDTV in Europe,

Ice Storm · « **Reply #43 on:** Nov 06, 2006 at 11:42 PM »

I feel sorry for the reports. It must've caused them migraines to go through the technobabble.

I may consider getting a HD display once there is local broadcasters. Til then I will just have to settle on a 24" Dell LCD connected to a computer or video console.

viper · « **Reply #44 on:** Nov 08, 2006 at 11:45 AM »

Going through the draft guidelines, it seems that protection is being given to existing national broadcasters and prevent moneyed interests (telcos like pangilinan, ayala) from going into the digital TV business at this early stage.

ralfy · « **Reply #45 on:** Nov 13, 2006 at 03:49 PM »

This is going to be difficult for most Filipinos because from what I read only a fraction of the population has access to television sets (and I mean ordinary ones). The government keeps forgetting that this is a country where only 15 percent of roads are paved and where only 60 percent of the country has regular access to electricity.

av_phile1 · « **Reply #46 on:** Nov 13, 2006 at 04:18 PM »

Is that still true? I often see shanties in squatter areas with many aerial TV antennas.

ralfy · « **Reply #47 on:** Nov 14, 2006 at 01:05 PM »

That's because most resources are concentrated in Manila; overall the situation is different. Also, it is likely that not only are most sets in shanties regular sets (and probably even second-hand or consisting of cheap brands) one can even ask questions about the source of electricity used to power them.

Overall, I find this proposal in a Third World country strange.

ert · « **Reply #48 on:** Nov 16, 2006 at 04:58 PM »

Quote from: krazy on Nov 06, 2006 at 08:25 PM

Good thing we didn't buy one of those imported HDTV's from the US with the built-in HD (ATSC) tuner as the NTC has chosen the European DVB-T standard for (H)DTV in the Philippines which is incompatible with the US ATSC system Not to mention there's a chance that broadcasters here could go with MPEG4 when they go digital in a few years in order to save on bandwidth like what's being done for HDTV in Europe,

question lang..how does DVB-T standard for HDTV works? may cable box ba sya or something? or direct na ba sa tv? i'm planning to buy pa naman kasi sa US ng mga plasma tvs..thanks!

viper · « **Reply #49 on:** Nov 18, 2006 at 03:32 PM »

Quote from: ralfy on Nov 14, 2006 at 01:05 PM

Overall, I find this proposal in a Third World country strange.

Stranger Vietnam which is another 3rd world country have already launched digital TV three years ago.

I do not think being a 3rd world country should prevent us from adopting these advances in technology. It did not stop us from being the top sms sender in the world meaning practically every Tomas, Karding and Pedro knows how to use the celfone. Visionaries in the TV broadcast industry is all set to dive into this technology confident enough to sink substantial investments on equipment.

viper · « **Reply #50 on:** Nov 18, 2006 at 03:39 PM »

Quote from: ert on Nov 16, 2006 at 04:58 PM

question lang..how does DVB-T standard for HDTV works? may cable box ba sya or something? or direct na ba sa tv? i'm planning to buy pa naman kasi sa US ng mga plasma tvs..thanks!

When this technology is rolled out, this will require the installation of a digital set-top box that will receive the digital signal and convert into a signal that can be fed to standard television sets. In the future, TV sets will be sold without tuners, they shall be basically display monitors (plasma, LCD, etc) whose inputs would come from digital set top boxes acquired separately.

ralfy · « **Reply #51 on:** Nov 23, 2006 at 03:10 AM »

It's one thing to offer digital TV but it's another to move to digital TV. It's one thing to dream about adopting such technology but it's another to find out if most Filipinos can afford it. (From what I know, even cheap analog cable services in the country are hardly affordable.) And given Vietnam's economic performance compared to the Philippines, I'm not surprised that they have such in Vietnam.

One more thing to consider is the long-term economic performance of the Philippines. Given the fact that its performance will involve competition with Asian neighbors, I am not confident about most Filipinos' ability to afford such technology. The last I heard our spending power even went down; i.e., most Filipinos are able to buy less food than they did a few years ago given present wage levels.

Finally, I can't help but think about issues like peak oil. Expensive forms of technology may be hit the hardest by such.

Quote from: viper on Nov 18, 2006 at 03:32 PM

Stranger Vietnam which is another 3rd world country have already launched digital TV three years ago.

I do not think being a 3rd world country should prevent us from adopting these advances in technology. It did not stop us from being the top sms sender in the world meaning practically every Tomas, Karding and Pedro knows how to use the celfone. Visionaries in the TV broadcast industry is all set to dive into this technology confident enough to sink substantial investments on equipment.

ert · « **Reply #52 on:** Jan 19, 2007 at 03:01 PM »

Quote from: viper on Nov 18, 2006 at 03:39 PM

When this technology is rolled out, this will require the installation of a digital set-top box that will receive the digital signal and convert into a signal that can be fed to standard television sets. In the future, TV sets will be sold without tuners, they shall be basically display monitors (plasma, LCD, etc) whose inputs would come from digital set top boxes acquired separately.

how does digital set top box works? so from rg6 ipluplug sya sa set top box right? then rca cables going to the tv am i right? kasi i'm building a new house right now and i'm planning to install digital rg6 instead of the analog ones that are sold here..

viper · « **Reply #53 on:** Jan 20, 2007 at 09:10 PM »

Quote from: ert on Jan 19, 2007 at 03:01 PM

how does digital set top box works? so from rg6 ipluplug sya sa set top box right? then rca cables going to the tv am i right? kasi i'm building a new house right now and i'm planning to install digital rg6 instead of the analog ones that are sold here..

Since this will be a digital terrestrial service, an internal or external antenna shall be provided (depending on you distance from the transmission point). From the antenna, the UHF signal shall be fed to the digital set top box that would extract the signal. Depending on the type of box provided, it can output analog (composite video) signals and audio. This could be rca ports that you can connect to the audio/video input of your TV set. Boxes with component outputs may also be deployed but since no HD service will be provided, only standard definition signals will be available hence composite video signal connectors would suffice.

indie boi · « **Reply #54 on:** Jan 22, 2007 at 11:30 AM »

According to my friends in ABS CBN, one scenario they are looking at is actually giving away the set top boxes for free. It's a big gamble but Channel 2 will benefit the most from the transition because it will significantly boost its reception in the far flung areas of the Philippines -- a problem it has at present since it sits at the lowest end of the VHF spectrum.

GMA, on the other hand, has already earmarked a billion pesos for its own digital broadcast efforts. From the posts above it seems that the prevailing question is whether it is a good idea to go digital in a third world country. It was a question I also raised with these broadcasters and both ABS and GMA agree that the next battlefield is really in digital so they really do not have a choice. It will be a disastrous move for either channel to ignore global trends because they will be rendered obsolete -- and no one wants that.

bachwitz · « **Reply #55 on:** Jan 25, 2007 at 03:45 PM »

sana ganito din sa Pinas, mga tong-gressman kasi dito protektado ang businesses at hindi ang consumers.

House Republicans propose warning labels for analog TVs

f a group of House Republicans have their way, television manufacturers still trying to convince consumers of the questionable benefits of analog TV may soon have a harder time making their case, as they'll be required to slap a big 'ol label on that old-school tube warning potential buyers of its considerable shortcomings. According to TV Week, the bill proposed by Republican members of the House Committee on Energy and Commerce would mandate that all analog-only TVs carry the message that "this TV has only an analog broadcast tuner and will require a converter box after Feb. 17, 2009, to receive over-the-air broadcasts." Not exactly "this TV can kill you," but hardly a selling point either. The bill would also require cable and satellite service providers to deliver regular reports detailing their consumer educations efforts, as well as require that the FCC create its own consumer outreach effort and provide details on the number of customers that have redeemed coupons for cable boxes. While the prospects of the bill passing aren't clear, it has picked up at least one big supporter, with the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) quickly hopping on board to endorse it.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/24/house-republicans-propose-warning-labels-for-analog-tvs/

ert · « **Reply #56 on:** Jan 26, 2007 at 04:50 PM »

Quote from: viper on Jan 20, 2007 at 09:10 PM

Since this will be a digital terrestrial service, an internal or external antenna shall be provided (depending on you distance from the transmission point). From the antenna, the UHF signal shall be fed to the digital set top box that would extract the signal. Depending on the type of box provided, it can output analog (composite video) signals and audio. This could be rca ports that you can connect to the audio/video input of your TV set. Boxes with component outputs may also be deployed but since no HD service will be provided, only standard definition signals will be available hence composite video signal connectors would suffice.

question..lets say if we are going to use a set top box..pano mo iseseparate yung HD into different TVs or different rooms? so every room kailngan may set top box sya? or how would you use a splitter?

et414 · « **Reply #57 on:** Jan 26, 2007 at 04:53 PM »

a settop box would be needed for every tv. if you use a splitter, whatever channel the settop box is on would be transmitted to the other tvs.

ert · « **Reply #58 on:** Jan 26, 2007 at 04:58 PM »

Quote from: ET414 on Jan 26, 2007 at 04:53 PM

a settop box would be needed for every tv. if you use a splitter, whatever channel the settop box is on would be transmitted to the other tvs.

wow fast reply..thanks!

i was installing digital coax na ngayon sa house instead of the analog coax that are sold here..para lang for future use...bka kasi pagnext time kailngan na ng digital coax..so just wanted to be sure na rin..anyway thanks again!

et414 · « **Reply #59 on:** Jan 26, 2007 at 05:06 PM »

no problem