Author Topic: Newbie and Not-so Noob Thread: Questions (FAQ) on Setting up  (Read 110391 times)

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Offline young_hov

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Hey guys.  Can anyone give me some advice?  I really want to get into audio.  My setup now is really lame.  Here's how it is.  Amp:80's Kenwood 100x2, Speakers: chewed up Pioneer hpm-60's.  I just recently purchased a Technics sl-1300 to get me going.  My budget is really tight so I'm going to have to upgrade one at a time.  Should I go for speakers or a tube amp?  Thanks!
« Last Edit: Sep 04, 2002 at 11:53 PM by levi »

Offline audio_tyro

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Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #1 on: Sep 03, 2002 at 01:39 PM »
Hi Young_Hov,

Looks like you're ready for a serious but exciting wholesome hobby (Audio). Gazing at your current set up, it would be good if you change your speakers first. Go for some audiophile-grade speakers. Pioneer HPM-60? One of my friends, Eriv Villanueva, used to have that one so I know well enough how that sound (typical Japanese sound - boomy and bright). Looking back, the first speakers my dad bought (when I was still in Grade Six) were a pair of Pioneer HPM-120 (good bass, but overall still a far cry even from todays budget audiophile-grade speakers).

But let me ask you first: what type of songs do you play in your system? Once I see that, I can have an idea what to recommend to you. And secondly, how much is your budget for your next indulgence? Tell me also how big is your audio room (L x W x H).




Offline gaol

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #2 on: Sep 03, 2002 at 03:20 PM »
Hey guys.  Can anyone give me some advice?  I really want to get into audio.  My setup now is really lame.  Here's how it is.  Amp:80's Kenwood 100x2, Speakers: chewed up Pioneer hpm-60's.  I just recently purchased a Technics sl-1300 to get me going.  My budget is really tight so I'm going to have to upgrade one at a time.  Should I go for speakers or a tube amp?  Thanks!

If you're on a tight budget for a stereo setup, you might consider a pre-owned B&W DM601s2 for starters.

I'm selling mine because I recently upgraded my speakers for my stereo only setup. I used these both for my entry-level stereo-only setup, and at one time, as fronts for HT. They can do wonders for your current setup and can hold its own once you upgrade the rest.

Check out:

FS: B&W DM601 s2

If you can afford even more, the next up would be the Dynaudio Audience 42s and 52s in the P25K range and up.

Someone told me that a good starter (pre-owned?) tube amp would set you back by P15K-P20K, but I have a feeling it would be wasted on your speakers.   ;)

Cheers!
GAOL

Offline greatbop

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #3 on: Sep 03, 2002 at 05:54 PM »
Personally I love both Energy and Paradigm speakers.

Sa Paradigm, go check out their PERFORMANCE series.
Sa energy naman the XLT series.  You can get a pair of really good floorstanding for just 400 USD..


rtsy

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #4 on: Sep 03, 2002 at 06:08 PM »
My budget is really tight so I'm going to have to upgrade one at a time.  Should I go for speakers or a tube amp?  Thanks!

Give Hyperaudio a visit at his shop at the back of Cash & Carry.  He has a pair of NHT Super Zeroes at below PhP8k.  IMHO, speakers dictate a good portion of the the characteristic sound of the system.  I think Hyperaudio also has a pair of Tannoy 603 and a pair of B&W DM302.  You can't go wrong with any of those.

If you don't like it used, listen to Mission m71, B&W DM303, PSB Alpha (don't know latest models).

Good luck and keep us posted.

Also check out:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pinoydiophiles


Offline listener

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #5 on: Sep 03, 2002 at 06:58 PM »
young_hov

When setting up a stereo system on a tight budget...I suggest you follow this breakdown:  60% of your budget must be spent on speakers, The remaining 40% on electronics. Changing your speakers in your setup must be your first step. You will be surprised with what you will hear when you upgrade to at least an entry level audiophile speaker.

Offline young_hov

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #6 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 12:03 AM »
@tyro: these hpm-60's must be from my dad's high school days coz the wood is so damn chewed up. ;D My musical tastes range from jazz, soul, funk, 70's, to hiphop and r&b.  I'm on an extremely tight budget coz I'm fresh off college with a measly salary. :'(  I'd say maybe 8-12k.

@gaol: Very tempted dude.  Still weighing my options though. Thanks.

@rtsy: PM'd hyper like you said.  Thanks.

I'm convinced speakers are the next upgrade.  How much would good cables set me back?  Thanks for the help dudes.  

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #7 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 08:14 AM »
Hi young_hov,

Cables you say?  Try IXOS.  Its not as expensive as those fat cables you see in some stores but IMHO their great for the money.

Again try, giving Hyperaudio a visit.  He carries this particular brand of cables.

Offline gaol

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #8 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 01:15 PM »
@gaol: Very tempted dude.  Still weighing my options though. Thanks.

I'm convinced speakers are the next upgrade.  How much would good cables set me back?  Thanks for the help dudes.  

If you want to listen to them to help you decide, let me know so we can schedule when you can come over....

The popular Ixos 6003 (purple-colored!) costs around P250 per meter and is generally available in most audio stores.

Cheers!
GAOL

Offline young_hov

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #9 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 08:02 PM »
Hi peeps.  Auditioned a couple of speakers today after work.  I listened to:

1) Mission M72: very well balanced, not too bright
2) B&W 601 S3: very forward and bright
3) PSB something: Nice but 20k is too much

I'm leaning towards the M72's since I simply cant find any other that matches its price/performance.  Upscale and Hyper quoted me at 9.9k.  Woud B&W 303's be a consideration?  Thanks!

Offline john5479

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #10 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 09:20 PM »
young_hov: in that price range give the b&w dm303 an audition. you might prefer its sound over the 601 s3.  ;)

Offline audio_tyro

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #11 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 10:04 PM »
Hi peeps.  Auditioned a couple of speakers today after work.  I listened to:

1) Mission M72: very well balanced, not too bright
2) B&W 601 S3: very forward and bright
3) PSB something: Nice but 20k is too much

I'm leaning towards the M72's since I simply cant find any other that matches its price/performance.  Upscale and Hyper quoted me at 9.9k.  Woud B&W 303's be a consideration?  Thanks!

Hi Young_hov! "..very well balanced, not too bright... very forward and bright... etc.)" You're a lying son-of-a-gun ;D. Newbie huh? yeah right!  :P

Okay, giving you a benefit of the doubt that you're indeed a newbie (yeah right), you can only go listen to the B&W 303 and see if it "overtakes" the M72's presentation.

Also try looking for someone who has a mint Tannoy Mercury or Mercury MX 1 or 2, 2.5. Tannoy's Mercury range have put to shame some of the best minimonitors around. Perhaps a used unit of M1 or MX1 should be approx. P9T (more or less). Actually I have an MX1 as bedroom speakers but have not decided to sell it yet. I will ask my other friends who are also Tannoy owners and will update you.

Offline young_hov

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Re:Advice for a Newbie
« Reply #12 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 10:36 PM »
@tyro: Hahaha! I really am a newbie when it comes to home audio!  I have some experience in car audio though.  Ok fine, semi-newbie then!  ;)  I'll probably check out those 303's tom and the one's you mentioned if I find them.  How much for speaker stands dude? Upscale was selling at 3.1k.

Little update for tonight.  I still can't believe it but I found my dad's old 1978 Sansui 7070.  Lo and behold, the darn thing works and it just puts the lame Kenwood to shame.  This might tide me over (until I get the cash for tubes  ::)) once I buy the new speakers.

Thanks for the help guys!      

Offline levi

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #13 on: Sep 04, 2002 at 11:55 PM »
Hi, I edited your title. Thanks


Levi

Offline john5479

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #14 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 12:19 AM »
young_hov, you might want to stick with the sansui amp
for now instead of getting a new one based on your budget. The circa 70's sansui amps are great sounding and well engineered so don't be surprised if your dad's amp is still working up to now. You can also try to find a tannoy M2, i saw one in buy & sell (the ads paper) selling for 7,500 pesos but I don't know if its used or not. speaker stands, a store in makati cinema square is selling lovan speaker stands for 2,200.

Offline hyperaudio

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #15 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 07:55 AM »
young_hov,
glad to be of help! is that the sansui 7070DB you're talking about. that was one of my dream amps when i was a newbie (or tyro) then. anyway, to get you a starting (on another level), i'm selling the mission m72
& lovan 2400 stand combo for only P12,000 (bn).
welcome to the world of never-ending GASTOS!

Offline caohyde

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #16 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 08:40 AM »
young_hov,

nice to see you here dude. :D as what hyperaudio said, welcome! welcome to the wonderful world of never ending gastos as sleepless nights.

btw, my offer still stands dude, just let me know. ;D

welcome again... ;D

rtsy

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #17 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 09:57 AM »
i'm selling the mission m72
& lovan 2400 stand combo for only P12,000 (bn).

Friendly advice:  don't listen to Hyperaudio's Rega Planar 3 and home-brewed tube amps.  Those are really BAD, BAD sounding pieces of gear.  

Please help me remember I said this.  My mind will change when I can afford them.   ;D

Kidding aside, hearing that turntable and those tube amps got me on the road to tubes (via Musical Fidelity X-Cans v2 and perhaps soon the Antique Sound Labs MG Head OTL) and an analogue sounding CD player (TT's don't suit my listen to a couple of random tracks then move to next album habit) w/c range from a ~PhP25k OEM of the nOrh CD1, to the Heart CDP and even perhaps an Audio Note CD2.1x (or at least the Audio Note DAC 1.1x).

Worse, improvements in the system led to investments in more CDs!

Kasalanan mo ito, Hyperaudio.

Offline young_hov

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #18 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 10:06 AM »
@hyper: You just made my day. ;D  I'm very inclined to go for your offer.  I think I just need to audition the dm303's before I finally make my decision.  Yes it's the Sansui 7070DB!  It really obliterated the Kenwood.  Clean powerful sound!  I can't get enough of those VU meters though. :)  

@cao: Hey man!  I really am trying to restrain myself.  Uy, I think someone outbid you on that Thorens.  Pinoydvd user din ata (henryh?).

After finding that Sansui, I rummaged some more and managed to unearth a Nakamichi.  Had to leave for work so I didn't get the model number.  I'll update you guys later on the model and performance (if it still works).  Dammit, why doesn't my dad tell me these things.  Who knows, I might just find a tube. ::)

Offline caohyde

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #19 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 11:30 AM »
@hyper: You just made my day. ;D  I'm very inclined to go for your offer.  I think I just need to audition the dm303's before I finally make my decision.  Yes it's the Sansui 7070DB!  It really obliterated the Kenwood.  Clean powerful sound!  I can't get enough of those VU meters though. :)  

@cao: Hey man!  I really am trying to restrain myself.  Uy, I think someone outbid you on that Thorens.  Pinoydvd user din ata (henryh?).

After finding that Sansui, I rummaged some more and managed to unearth a Nakamichi.  Had to leave for work so I didn't get the model number.  I'll update you guys later on the model and performance (if it still works).  Dammit, why doesn't my dad tell me these things.  Who knows, I might just find a tube. ::)


good luck with your treasure hunting dude... i hope you can find what you're looking for... ;D

regarding the thorens, yeah i know... badtrip nga eh... >:( ok lang... ;D i'll revive nalang my more antique TT. ;D the leads are all that i need. ;D

Offline greatbop

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #20 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 04:16 PM »
I have no idea what sansui 707d is.. but.. yeah.. give Energy or Paradigm speakers a try. Ako personally i didnt like the PSBs as much as Energy's. Tapos Paradigm gives up a bit over energy  but costs way less.

(ie bang for your buck)... If you really feel na you wanna spend just a little bit of cash.. try out ATHENA SPEAKERS... You can't go wrong sa speakers nila.

www.athenaspeakers.com
www.energy-speakers.com
www.paradigm.com

check out energy and paradigm's first. tapos athena's

Offline young_hov

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #21 on: Sep 05, 2002 at 11:18 PM »
I pulled the trigger tonight and got the Mission m72's.  Hyperaudio gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.  Got them with Lovan stands and Ixos cables.  Yep, I saw the place.  Can I just say before I go on, holy sh*********ttttt!  :-*  There I got it out of my system.

It took me around 30 mins to get everything up and running.  I'm breaking these babies in right now and all I can say is wow.  Amazing how they've changed the complexion of my listening experience.  Just the best bang for the buck imho.  

A big thank you to all you guys for the help and advice.  I realized that this can only be the beginning.  The infinite number of upgrades leaves me wanting so much more.  The flesh is willing but good thing the wallet is not. ;D

Next upgrade will have to be the amplifier.  Tubes in 3-4 months.  Maybe.

Offline greatbop

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #22 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 05:10 AM »
just wondering... how much did that pair pf speakers cost?

Offline caohyde

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #23 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 09:37 AM »
I pulled the trigger tonight and got the Mission m72's.  Hyperaudio gave me an offer I couldn't refuse.  Got them with Lovan stands and Ixos cables.  Yep, I saw the place.  Can I just say before I go on, holy sh*********ttttt!  :-*  There I got it out of my system.

It took me around 30 mins to get everything up and running.  I'm breaking these babies in right now and all I can say is wow.  Amazing how they've changed the complexion of my listening experience.  Just the best bang for the buck imho.  

A big thank you to all you guys for the help and advice.  I realized that this can only be the beginning.  The infinite number of upgrades leaves me wanting so much more.  The flesh is willing but good thing the wallet is not. ;D

Next upgrade will have to be the amplifier.  Tubes in 3-4 months.  Maybe.

congratulations!!! be prepared my friend be prepared... ;D

Offline young_hov

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #24 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 10:06 AM »
@cao: I heard it at hyper's place and I'm still dumbfounded.  A beginner set should set me back around 15k daw.  Oh but no, I'm lusting after those 30-40k models. :o  Hey what's the proper way of breaking speakers in?  Should all the gain knobs be flat and the loudness off?  Thanks dude!

@greatbop: whole set (m72's, lovan, ixos) for 13k.


Offline greatbop

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #25 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 01:21 PM »
Heh.. that is cheap.. I bought a pair of Energy Xl 150 speakers and an s8.2  subwoofer for my mini system... and it costed me 19000 php equiv... Just keeps amazes me everytime.

the speakers were just perfect. the subs was overkill though.. Pero I am getting a temporary HTiB.. so papalitan ko nalang yung dalawang subs..


Offline Skabyol

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #26 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 01:54 PM »
Hi Young Hov,
Can you clarify what at begginer set consist of?

Thanks.

Offline young_hov

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #27 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 03:28 PM »
@skabyol: I'm not really familiar with the ins and outs of tubes.  When I said begginer I meant a model for starters (ie. something not too expensive).  If you want to know more about tubes just ask the jedi master of tubes, Hyperaudio. ;)

Offline caohyde

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #28 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 04:12 PM »
@cao: I heard it at hyper's place and I'm still dumbfounded.  A beginner set should set me back around 15k daw.  Oh but no, I'm lusting after those 30-40k models. :o  Hey what's the proper way of breaking speakers in?  Should all the gain knobs be flat and the loudness off?  Thanks dude!

@greatbop: whole set (m72's, lovan, ixos) for 13k.



dude,

one simple way of breaking in speakers is by playing music at almost exacting levels the whole day for several days. but that's a little bit too much... just listen to them regularly (tone controls flat and loudness on, although it really depends on your sound preference), within a few days or so they'll loosen up and you'll notice the difference. ;)

about the amp, you can settle with the 15k for beginners, but that's normally n integrated amp. separates can set you back 25-40k. hyper was offering me his ST70 power amp and pas 3 pre-amp for about 40k, that was a few months back (sold na yata now eh). :)

the difference between going integrated and separates is that with the integrated amp, you are limited to its features, you can add a power amp or other accessories (ie DAC, equalizer, etc.) to it if it has pre-outs.

swabe yan if you have separates na... especially the dual mono amps... whoa! ;D

 ;) :D ;D

Offline young_hov

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Re:Audio Setup Newbie
« Reply #29 on: Sep 06, 2002 at 04:21 PM »
@cao: Ya dude that's what Rene said.  The 15k will give me musicality that my solid state can't but feeling ko I might be limited by an integrated amp.  God you were right when you said this was a bottomless pit. ;D Even after break-in, should loudness be on or does it matter if its on or off?  How bout the gain knobs after break-in?  Thanks a mil dude.