Topic: The Plasma Thread

[barrister]

Plasma owners, please post! 

Kawawa naman ang mga plasma fanboys, walang makausap!   

[jvm]

Let's get this thread rolling

I have a Hitachi 42PD8500TA. Just got it last Feb 22.

I read about the break-in period and break-in DVD. However I just learned about it after I purchased. I hope it will not do some harm to my TV with out the break-in. What I do now is just to lower all the settings:

• Contrast = -10 to 0
• Brightness = -5 to 0
• Color = -10 to 0
• Sharpness = -15 to 0
• Color temp = Cool most of the time
• Black level Enhancement = Low
• Luminance Manager = OFF

I tweak the picture depending on the source/movie, to fit my taste.

Even with this very low settings, the PQ is very good, vivid and detailed still.

Have you tried calibrating your plasmas using DVE or similar calibrating tool? Please share your settings.

What are some DOS & DONTS that we need to know to take care of our plasma TV's?

I'm just using a progressive scan Pioneer dvd player right now, connected through component connection. And I'm thinking of buying an upscaling one with HDMI. Any recommendation?

[gearhead]

it would help siguro if we will have price updates here also. yung mga lcd's medyo kabisado ko na presyo pati na the best places to get one. pero sa plasma wala pa masyado idea saan siya available, the models available locally and corresponding prices. TIA.

[barrister]

Sana may mag-compile ng models and corresponding prices.  In the meantime, dagdag n'yo na yung akin:

Panasonic Viera TH-42PA60M (42" EDTV) P120k on Jan. 15, 2007 at Avid in Robinsons Marcos Highway, Cainta.  No freebies other than pedestal stand.

[barrister]

What are some DOS & DONTS that we need to know to take care of our plasma TV's?

A plasma panel's phosphors age fastest during the first 100 hours of use.  Hence, the risk of burn-in is highest during this time.  To minimize the possibility of burn-in, the following are advised during the first 100 hours:

1. Turn down the contrast and brightness settings to the middle of the available adjustment range or lower. --- This is the most important advice.
2. Avoid black bars by using a viewing aspect ratio that completely fills the screen.
3. Check the 4:3 mode and confirm that the side bars are set to "Mid", or "Bright".
4. TV channels with stationary logos should not be viewed for extended periods of time.
5. Avoid extended display of static images such as video games, computer images, DVD menu screens, etc.

Note:  Distinguish between "burn-in" and "image retention" (or "IR") --- burn-in is permanent; IR is temporary.

Don't worry too much about breaking in the TV.  If your panel has good phosphors, it's unlikely that burn-in will appear even if you did not break it in.  If the panel has bad phosphors, burn-in may still occur despite break-in. 

The practice of breaking in a plasma panel is a carry-over from the early days of the technology.  I have a feeling that it would not be necessary on my panel, but I still did it just to be sure.


===============================================================

Plasma break-in DVD:

http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm

From the author:

It is basically a set of 20 images that are 720p native resolution. The images are full screen colors so that the entire screen is 1 color at a time. The colors go from a white to a dark grey in 5 gradients, white to blue in 5 gradients, white to green in 5 gradients and white to red in five gradients.

CAUTION: Pag nag-hang ang player mo, yari ka! 

I recommend tuning into a TV station and zooming in at maximum to crop the station logo from the picture, then leaving the TV on 10 hours a day for 10 days. 


These days, burn-in is a non-issue for good plasma panels.  The consensus is that the risk of burn-in for good plasmas is about the same as the risk of burn-in for CRT TVs. 


=====================================================

I'm just using a progressive scan Pioneer dvd player right now, connected through component connection. And I'm thinking of buying an upscaling one with HDMI. Any recommendation?

The most popular these days is Pioneer 696AV; but Oppo (not available locally) is reputedly the best.

[tylerdude]

Sana may mag-compile ng models and corresponding prices.  In the meantime, dagdag n'yo na yung akin:

Panasonic Viera TH-42PA60M (42" EDTV) P120k on Jan. 15, 2007 at Avid in Robinsons Marcos Highway, Cainta.  No freebies other than pedestal stand.

i bought a panasonic viera th-42pa60h from the home theater for only 90k. would you know what's the difference with your model? the specs are almost the same.

[barrister]

The 60M is the model from Panasonic Philippines; the 60H is not.  The only other country where I found the 60M on the web is in South Africa. 

60H is a parallel import, but as far as I know, it's also a 2006-2007 9th generation model.  I really can't see any difference between the two models, so it's quite possible that they're exactly the same. 

A google search shows that the 60H is a model distributed in Singapore, with SRP at SGD$2,700.  If it's a Japan panel, then the price was very good.  And even if it's not a Japan panel, quality might be exactly the same.  Honestly, I would have bought the 60H instead if I had known about it.   

[switi]

@tyler, ako naman magtanong, where did you buy that viera 42" for 90k? interestedc ako bigla.  yung 42p9500t 100k ang qoute sa akin.

[barrister]

I hope the prospective buyers compile a price list. 

Thanks to sir gearhead's price list suggestion, we now have P90k as the record holder for a 1st-tier 42" plasma.

[jvm]

I got the Hitachi 42PD8500TA for 118K (from a SRP of 157K) for 18mos. 0% interest.  The 42PD9800TA was the first model I like, but they can only give it at 150K (SRP 198K), for the same payment terms. This is from Ansons ATC. I got a Sigma AV rack for free.

The 100K quote for the 42PD9500TA is I think a very good bargain. Where was this quoted?

[tylerdude]

@tyler, ako naman magtanong, where did you buy that viera 42" for 90k? interestedc ako bigla.  yung 42p9500t 100k ang qoute sa akin.

it's from the home theater but i paid it in cash that's why i got a good price.

[jvm]

A plasma panel's phosphors age fastest during the first 100 hours of use.  Hence, the risk of burn-in is highest during this time.  To minimize the possibility of burn-in, the following are advised during the first 100 hours:

1. Turn down the contrast and brightness settings to the middle of the available adjustment range or lower. --- This is the most important advice.
2. Avoid black bars by using a viewing aspect ratio that completely fills the screen.
3. Check the 4:3 mode and confirm that the side bars are set to "Mid", or "Bright".
4. TV channels with stationary logos should not be viewed for extended periods of time.
5. Avoid extended display of static images such as video games, computer images, DVD menu screens, etc.

Note:  Distinguish between "burn-in" and "image retention" (or "IR") --- burn-in is permanent; IR is temporary.

Don't worry too much about breaking in the TV.  If your panel has good phosphors, it's unlikely that burn-in will appear even if you did not break it in.  If the panel has bad phosphors, burn-in may still occur despite break-in. 

The practice of breaking in a plasma panel is a carry-over from the early days of the technology.  I have a feeling that it would not be necessary on my panel, but I still did it just to be sure.


===============================================================

Plasma break-in DVD:

CAUTION: Pag nag-hang ang player mo, yari ka! 

I recommend tuning into a TV station and zooming in at maximum to crop the station logo from the picture, then leaving the TV on 10 hours a day for 10 days. 


These days, burn-in is a non-issue for good plasma panels.  The consensus is that the risk of burn-in for good plasmas is about the same as the risk of burn-in for CRT TVs. 


=====================================================


The most popular these days is Pioneer 696AV; but Oppo (not available locally) is reputedly the best.

Really good to know those tips barrister. Thanks for that.

Buti na lang, I usually set my TV on the soft side. Kaya mababa na rin mga settings ko sa plasma ko. I think I can even live with these low settings (mid to below-mid of the scale) , the picture quality is already acceptable for me.

And it's also my habit to really zoom the movies that have black bars in order to make it fit the whole screen. Sayang kasi yong screen size na kasama sa binayaran . I only watch movies with black screen with sources that don't have good quality, because the degradation in picture is so obvious when zoomed. But I use the Panoramic zoom just to minimize the area of the black bars with these not so good DVDs.

I'm not using it for broadcast viewing right now because of the logos of most if not all TV shows. Saka bawas na rin sa hours of use. Medyo mataas rin kasi rating ng power consumption, 380W. One factor that I totally forgot because I was impressed with the PQ when I auditioned it, after auditioning a number of LCDs. But I read somewhere here and at the other forums that plasmas don't really consume that much energy all throughout; that it depends on whether the scenes displayed are bright or dark, and also depends on the settings of the brightness and contrast. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

[jvm]

it's from the home theater but i paid it in cash that's why i got a good price.

No wonder Mr SGT really offer good deals. When I bought my sub from him he was also offering Toshiba LCDs at good prices. I didn't know he's also carrying plasmas. I could have gotten it from him instead.

[barrister]

Buti na lang, I usually set my TV on the soft side. Kaya mababa na rin mga settings ko sa plasma ko. I think I can even live with these low settings (mid to below-mid of the scale) , the picture quality is already acceptable for me.

My reference image is still film in a movie theater.  And that is as it should be, since a movie is intended to be seen in a theater, not on a TV.  Hence, when viewing a movie at home, the picture should look as close as possible to that seen in the theater.  That's why I still watch movies in theater from time to time.  And that's why I'm still not satisfied with even the best LCD monitors -- they just can't reproduce a film-like image.     

You will notice that if you calibrate your plasma to produce an image that looks like the one seen in a theater, you will end up with very low contrast and brightness settings.  So, sa tingin ko, baka tama pa nga ang settings mo.  Mas accurate na, mas hahaba pa ang buhay ng phosphors.

Another thing I notice is that most of our members hate to see a grainy picture.  Hindi na siguro sila nanonood ng sine.  Sometimes, film grain is intentional.  It's just a "look" that the director prefers as an artistic choice.  In fact, there's one movie that was shot in digital, pero nilagyan pa ng fake film grain, and the effect was awful --- it's Superman Returns.   

I remember the showroom display of Philips Pixel Plus CRT around 2001.  Demo movie nila ay Gladiator.  Kabisado ko na ang picture ng Gladiator, and it has intentional film grain.  The Philips Pixel Plus demo was showing Gladiator with a very smooth picture, and some of our members loved it!  Like looking through a window daw.  To me, it looked absolutely awful, like it was a home video shot on a Handycam.  Instead of a high budget blockbuster, it looked like a cheap telenovela.

But I read somewhere here and at the other forums that plasmas don't really consume that much energy all throughout...

The fact is that the first plasma units really consumed a lot of power.  These days, OK lang ang power consumption ng plasma, just about the same as LCD or slightly higher than LCD.

... that it depends on whether the scenes displayed are bright or dark, and also depends on the settings of the brightness and contrast. Please correct me if I'm wrong about this.

That's right.

LCD has a constant backlight, so it never changes regardless of whether the scene displayed is bright or dark (except for newer models with adjustable backlights).  To display a bright scene, the LCD element is off so that the backlight can pass through.  Dark scenes will actually cause the unit to consume more power since the LCD element has to activate to block the backlight.

Sa plasma, it's the opposite.  A bright scene consumes more power because the pixel is activated; a dark scene consumes less power because the pixel is simply turned off.   

[Alfie]

I'm just using a progressive scan Pioneer dvd player right now, connected through component connection. And I'm thinking of buying an upscaling one with HDMI. Any recommendation?

Aside from the Pioneer that Barrister recommended, I recommend that you also buy the MG-35 HDD player, you will be surprised what this little toy can do, plus the fact that you can manage the screen size filling up the whole screen without any picture cropping.

Pioneer 696AVS for the HDMI, and the MG-35 for the component inputs to maximize your 720p and 1081i.

BTW, both are very very affordable(what the heck, your'e  a Plasma owner, of course you can afford these wonderful toys to go with it)

[switi]

buy the MG-35 HDD player,



i have the 696, what brand is this mg-35 hdd player?

[Alfie]

Mediagate, here's the thread;http://pinoydvd.com/board/index.php?topic=60377.msg643053#msg643053

[switi]

thanks.

[jvm]

My reference image is still film in a movie theater.  And that is as it should be, since a movie is intended to be seen in a theater, not on a TV.  Hence, when viewing a movie at home, the picture should look as close as possible to that seen in the theater.  That's why I still watch movies in theater from time to time.  And that's why I'm still not satisfied with even the best LCD monitors -- they just can't reproduce a film-like image. 

When I watch a movie I'm also trying to remember how the movie looked like. That's why sometimes I lose some of the film's plot because I'm more focused on trying to remember the level of brightness & contrast, texture of the film.   

You will notice that if you calibrate your plasma to produce an image that looks like the one seen in a theater, you will end up with very low contrast and brightness settings.  So, sa tingin ko, baka tama pa nga ang settings mo.  Mas accurate na, mas hahaba pa ang buhay ng phosphors.

The low settings that I use looks better at night when it's dark, just like in the movies. My personal gauge is on bright scenes, it should not "hurt" my eyes; bright yet comfortable to the eyes.

[jvm]

Aside from the Pioneer that Barrister recommended, I recommend that you also buy the MG-35 HDD player, you will be surprised what this little toy can do, plus the fact that you can manage the screen size filling up the whole screen without any picture cropping.

Pioneer 696AVS for the HDMI, and the MG-35 for the component inputs to maximize your 720p and 1081i.

BTW, both are very very affordable(what the heck, your'e  a Plasma owner, of course you can afford these wonderful toys to go with it)

I also planned to buy the MG-35. I got sidetracked on this plan when the one selling at Festival mall didn't have a 350GB hdd. My allocated fund for this got diverted too

I just came from ATC and was able to see the Pio696 in action using HDMI displayed through a Pioneer Plasma. Looks great, really smooth and vivid, at 1080i and 720p. This is considering that the Ultraviolet DVD they're using is a p-dvd.  I was more impressed with it than the one I also checked, just before the 696, a Samsung BD player playing through a Samsung LCD, playing a BD demo disk.

A 50K player vs. 6.8K one, valuewise, I would not yet aspire for the existing BD players, if I can have a picture quality with this upscaling dvd player that is not really too far from HD. That's my personal opinion.

I may get the Pio696 this Saturday.

[dB10]

I just came from ATC and was able to see the Pio696 in action using HDMI displayed through a Pioneer Plasma. Looks great, really smooth and vivid, at 1080i and 720p. This is considering that the Ultraviolet DVD they're using is a p-dvd.  I was more impressed with it than the one I also checked, just before the 696, a Samsung BD player playing through a Samsung LCD, playing a BD demo disk.

A 50K player vs. 6.8K one, valuewise, I would not yet aspire for the existing BD players, if I can have a picture quality with this upscaling dvd player that is not really too far from HD. That's my personal opinion.

I may get the Pio696 this Saturday.
[/quote]

well since this IS a plasma thread,

"maybe its because the BD was playing on an Sammy LCD and the 696 was playing on a Pio PLASMA"

[jvm]

I just came from ATC and was able to see the Pio696 in action using HDMI displayed through a Pioneer Plasma. Looks great, really smooth and vivid, at 1080i and 720p. This is considering that the Ultraviolet DVD they're using is a p-dvd.  I was more impressed with it than the one I also checked, just before the 696, a Samsung BD player playing through a Samsung LCD, playing a BD demo disk.

A 50K player vs. 6.8K one, valuewise, I would not yet aspire for the existing BD players, if I can have a picture quality with this upscaling dvd player that is not really too far from HD. That's my personal opinion.

I may get the Pio696 this Saturday.


well since this IS a plasma thread,

"maybe its because the BD was playing on an Sammy LCD and the 696 was playing on a Pio PLASMA"

Maybe the BD would look better on a Plasma display

[dB10]

the logic is undeniable, until our eyes prove us, or the bias blinds them (or us)

i wonder what would happen if we do a side by side using the best of both panel using a single source in HD format, just wondering  

[jvm]

...i wonder what would happen if we do a side by side using the best of both panel using a single source in HD format, just wondering  

It would have been great if we were able to do this before we have purchased our respective displays. Just like what were done with audio equipments (amps, speakers, cables) by friends I know from PDVD. At the stores they're reluctant doing this. If somebody could arrange this? 

But whatever the result would be, one side would get disappointed; however, we must learn to enjoy what we have right now, but keep positive that you'll get a better one someday.

[barrister]

When I watch a movie I'm also trying to remember how the movie looked like.

That's what I mean.  If the user is a stickler for reproduction accuracy, he will choose a plasma over an LCD.   

When I watch a movie I'm also trying to remember how the movie looked like. That's why sometimes I lose some of the film's plot because I'm more focused on trying to remember the level of brightness & contrast, texture of the film.   

Madali lang naman once you get used to a movie's "look".  No need to to make a mental photo of the movie.  It's unlikely that you saw a perfect reproduction of the film anyway.  Marami kasing factors.  Sometimes the projector is slightly out of focus,  sometimes mali ang framing, sometimes madilim -- parang luma na yung bulb ng projector, ayaw pang palitan, nagtitipid yata yung management.       

The low settings that I use looks better at night when it's dark, just like in the movies. My personal gauge is on bright scenes, it should not "hurt" my eyes; bright yet comfortable to the eyes.

Calibration of brightness and tint are the most difficult.  Other settings are easy to adjust according to preference, but brightness and tint are difficult to get right without the aid of test patterns.  As a zero expense solution, I use THX Optimizer to calibrate brightness and tint; for all other settings I just use personal preference, with the objective of producing the most film-like quality possible.

[jvm]

Calibration of brightness and tint are the most difficult.  Other settings are easy to adjust according to preference, but brightness and tint are difficult to get right without the aid of test patterns.  As a zero expense solution, I use THX Optimizer to calibrate brightness and tint; for all other settings I just use personal preference, with the objective of producing the most film-like quality possible.

With your Panasonic, how are your usual settings for the Brightness and Tint? The THX Optimizer you're referring to is the one that are usually in dvd's that are THX certified? Or it's a separate disc?

For me right now, the brightness is a little higher than the contrast, but still below the mid point of the scale, usually about 5 scales down. Tint right now is set to 3 scales to RED and sometimes at 0. These are just usual settings right now. I tweak most of the time. Di naman kaya masira ang plasma kung adjust ng adjust?

[barrister]

There's only 1 variant of the THX Optimizer, and it's the one included free in THX certified DVD discs, that's why I referred to it as a zero expense solution.  The THX Optimizer's test patterns include only the most basic ones.  I only need brightness and tint test patterns, so it's more than enough for me.

I don't go into the service menu.  It's very dangerous.  I read in a U.S. forum about this guy who accessed his Panasonic service menu just to check the number of hours used.  After exiting the service menu, he immediately noticed clay faces on the unit despite the fact that he never adjusted any service menu setting.  If you mess up service menu settings, it's possible that even an authorized technician would not be able to fix it.     

Finalize settings after the 100 hour break in period.  If you calibrate before the completion of break in, the picture will still change, so you will have to recalibrate.     

On my Panny, adjustment scales are 0 to 100.  My permanent settings are:

1. Brightness = 46.  Test pattern on THX Optimizer indicates 44, but I increased setting 2 notches up to slightly increase black level shadow detail.

2. Color = 28.  Test pattern indicates 33 to 35, but I reduced color to minimize "Red Push" (oversaturation of reds despite correct saturation of other colors).  Even the best LCDs naturally have a much worse red push.  Plasmas naturally have more accurate colors with very minimal red push.

3. Tint = 54.  Same as test pattern result, 4 clicks above midpoint toward green.   

4. Contrast = 46.  Trial and error lang, no test pattern used.

5.  All processing modes off.

Hindi naman masisira kahit adjust nang adjust ng settings. 

After you get it right, you won't need to readjust unless you encounter a DVD that's obviously incorrectly mastered.   DVDs are mastered with standard calibrations, and I would estimate that about less than 1% of them are incorrectly mastered.

[Clondalkin]

the logic is undeniable, until our eyes prove us, or the bias blinds them (or us)

i wonder what would happen if we do a side by side using the best of both panel using a single source in HD format, just wondering  

Visit Tokyo right now and have fun in Bic Camera, Yodobashi Camera, Kojima or Yamada.    Sharp Aquos vs Panasonic Viera smackdown galore all day long!  Isama mo na rin yung Bravia.

I tell you what could happen; either lalo kang di makakatulog, or you'd be able to decide right away.    Problem with viewing a Plasma and an LCD in a big store, the place is usually well lit, thus, advantage sa LCD.  However, it would still be easy to see how smooth the plasma look is and how much better the colors are.

By the way, if you see the best of both panels, you'd probably have second thoughts buying the cheaper models and makes. 

   

[barrister]

Da best siguro sa Tokyo!

Panny plasma vs Sony Bravia LCD, both native full HD panels using HD-DVD or Blu ray, both properly calibrated ... I'm sure it will be a very close match.  Now, that would be sight to see.

By the way, if you see the best of both panels, you'd probably have second thoughts buying the cheaper models and makes. 

With this kind of a purchase, it pays to be brand conscious.  It's extremely difficult to make a good flat panel, so it's expected that only the first tier manufacturers can produce a competent product.

[dB10]

its because of the big amount involved that we often try to search for a cheaper panel with an acceptable pq, unfortunately as we all have experienced, this is not an easy task.  Once price and pq clash, sometimes if not most of the time, the former is often the priority for people, sacrificing the latter which hopefully does not frustrate the buyer in the next few years they'll be together, aray! so for a few more thousands, maybe the better panel is worth it, ipon na lang muna to get the best! patience is trully a virtue