Author Topic: Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)  (Read 81296 times)

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Offline stradale

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #60 on: Mar 01, 2003 at 09:51 PM »
rsty,

As usual, your post is very helpful.  You didn't mention it but which one would you choose?

Sounds to me like the ST-70 gives more bang for the buck and I'm not talking about wattage here.  But you are right, I haven't really gone around auditioning stuff. I guess I'll have to "play it by ear" before I do any short listing then.  

 
« Last Edit: Mar 01, 2003 at 09:57 PM by stradale »

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #61 on: Mar 02, 2003 at 07:55 AM »
I'd love to but I don't have the budget yet.  Kakahiya naman mag-audition.  Anybody has tried comparing the Arcam A85 SS amp to the ST-70 or Pas-3 tube amps? Would love to hear your opinion.

don't worry. hyperaudio's cool and very open minded.  ;)kung alangan ka pa rin, we can use my st-70 for the audition. we just have to find a common schedule.

ayos!

Offline vintage_dog

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #62 on: Mar 02, 2003 at 08:23 AM »
having personally listened to about 100 vintage amps over the years (i had the pleasure of befriending and visiting one known vintage collector in california with over 400 vintage gears.  he stores them in an old church!) and owning about 50 of them the past years, i can safely say that the st70 is one hell of an amp that is hard to beat in terms of overall "bang for the buck".

properly restored and even tweaked, it is clearly one of the top choices, and a musical amp.  BUT, several other vintage amps beat it in terms of power, musicality, dynamics, transparency, neutrality even at the same price point.   some amps in mind:  eico hf87, 89, 35, 50, 60, fisher 80az, heathkit w3, w4, w5,  etc. (i have excluded the marantz because it's at a different price range)

net, there are several options to the st70 and surprisingly, even cheaper than the st70.

v 8)d

here's a snapshot of some of my vintage collection:

http://www.wiredstate.com/francis/vintage_room.jpg
« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2003 at 10:57 AM by vintage_dog »

Offline stradale

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #63 on: Mar 02, 2003 at 02:35 PM »
vintage_dog,

Man, you are a true blue guru; we are not worthy!  Haven't seen that many tube gear since, well since I last went to hyper's.

Holding an EB soon?  Count me in please!

« Last Edit: Mar 02, 2003 at 02:36 PM by stradale »

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #64 on: Mar 02, 2003 at 04:32 PM »
The million dollar question.....

How many ST70s (original, Series II, modified, upgraded) has the tube guru -  hyperaudio sold at present?  ::)

Calling hyper....... have you lost count?  ;D




Online levi

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #65 on: Mar 03, 2003 at 01:16 AM »
Do you get tax if you bring in Vintage Tube amps like the ST70. Im planning to look for ST70 in the States this summer but I have no idea regarding customs rules regarding vintage gears. I only plan to bring 1 or 2 units and for personal use only. Any suggestion how can I bring it home. Thanks

Offline mozilla

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #66 on: Mar 03, 2003 at 06:55 AM »
When auditioning an unreconditioned "stock" St70, most people generally complain about the "muddy" bass and rolled off highs.

One must bear in mind that what he is hearing is NOT the ST70 sound but the sound of the 40 year old parts. Most of the resistors & caps are now out of tolerance due to age & heat.

All one has to to is to check the specs & replace these w/ new or NOS parts and whallah! you get one of the best sounding tube amps for the price.

Remember, there are basically 2 camps when it comes to st70's - those in the restoration camp and those in the modification camp.

Restoring means you replace the aged components with newer ones of basically the SAME SPECS. Some up the capacitance and voltage here & there, replace the RCA's, speaker posts and that's still considered restoration.

Some are into modifications: Uncle Ned's Triode Electronics board, Curcio, Welbourne, etc. Basically, all that's retained is the ST70's OPT's. Mods usually involve redesigned driver boards, power supplies, etc.

Most mod makers in the U.S. (esp. Joe Curcio with his 'premium board") claim -and their users swear by it too- that these modded amps can beat many high end, megabux tube amps (I won't name brands here). While some of  those who belong to the classic restoration camp believe these mods do sound "better", it is not the classic ST70 sound anymore.

So take your pick. Restore & listen to the vintage ST70 sound; or modify and beat the hell out of your friend's mega bukol tube amp.

Cheers! ;D

Offline vintage_dog

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #67 on: Mar 03, 2003 at 10:17 AM »
Do you get tax if you bring in Vintage Tube amps like the ST70. Im planning to look for ST70 in the States this summer but I have no idea regarding customs rules regarding vintage gears. I only plan to bring 1 or 2 units and for personal use only. Any suggestion how can I bring it home. Thanks

levi,

todate, i may have brought in about 50 pieces of audio gear from the usa.  most were shipped via balikbayan boxes.  all arrived undamaged because they were properly packed.

the few that i brought home with my check-in cargo had some risks:

- i was held up at US customs twice already.  last year, i checked in a vintage heathkit amp with the massive transformers.  this showed up in their monitors and they had no clue what it was.  so i was paged, brought to a secure area and my bag inspected.  there were bomb detection procedures which took some time, and actually delayed the flight because of the amp ;-)

- i was back from the US again last month and brought home a DAC this time (used).  bags were to be unlocked when checked-in.  the bag arrived alright but with a note from US customs that they inspected the bag...the DAC must have shown again on their ray and they decided to open it up.  net, you must be willing to take a risk in shipping gear in unlocked bags arriving at our airports.  good luck.

- in general, our customs guys do not open bags unless you have more than 2 big bags.  if they do, tell them you have some used equipment.  not sure about tax rate, but if it's only one piece like a dynaco, they will probably not tax you.

- be careful about buying used gear in the US unless you are knowledgeable in testing them and you know the seller.  in buying a dynaco, make sure the transformers are original AND working AND you have the orig version NOT the cheaper series 2.  tubes are usually worn out even if seller says they are ok and working. you should get a good matched set while there.

hope this helps.

v 8)d

the home of 2-channel audio:
www.wiredstate.com/pinoydiophiles

« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2003 at 11:02 AM by vintage_dog »

Offline vintage_dog

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #68 on: Mar 03, 2003 at 10:37 AM »
When auditioning an unreconditioned "stock" St70, most people generally complain about the "muddy" bass and rolled off highs.

One must bear in mind that what he is hearing is NOT the ST70 sound but the sound of the 40 year old parts. Most of the resistors & caps are now out of tolerance due to age & heat.

All one has to to is to check the specs & replace these w/ new or NOS parts and whallah! you get one of the best sounding tube amps for the price.

Remember, there are basically 2 camps when it comes to st70's - those in the restoration camp and those in the modification camp.

Restoring means you replace the aged components with newer ones of basically the SAME SPECS. Some up the capacitance and voltage here & there, replace the RCA's, speaker posts and that's still considered restoration.

Some are into modifications: Uncle Ned's Triode Electronics board, Curcio, Welbourne, etc. Basically, all that's retained is the ST70's OPT's. Mods usually involve redesigned driver boards, power supplies, etc.

Most mod makers in the U.S. (esp. Joe Curcio with his 'premium board") claim -and their users swear by it too- that these modded amps can beat many high end, megabux tube amps (I won't name brands here). While some of  those who belong to the classic restoration camp believe these mods do sound "better", it is not the classic ST70 sound anymore.

So take your pick. Restore & listen to the vintage ST70 sound; or modify and beat the hell out of your friend's mega bukol tube amp.

Cheers! ;D

moz is right about mods and restoration.

i do both on my gear.

on the "upgrade boards" for st70, there are actually just 2 approaches:

- one, retain the basic driver (preamp) circuit topology of the st70, which is a penthode-triode.  the orig board uses the 7199.  they are rare, expensive and quite noisy at times.  the triode electronics board and sound valves board use exactly the same circuit, but with different tubes, but still in the penthode-triode config.  my sound valves board uses exactly the same circuit but  have been repinned to take the 6gh8-6u8-6bl8-7687, etc tube config.  advantage:  dozens of permutations to tube roll while maintaining the SAME original design!  well, i love this board big time ;-)

- the other is completely changing the driver circuit altogether. this is the welbourne labs.  well, my welbourne labs st70 beats some of the modern amps costing 5-10x more.  yes,  i used to own one of these mega-branded amps, and it's now sold.

- and for pete's sake, NEVER replace your PS supply from tube (5AR4) to SS rectification, no matter what the other guy tells you...

- with a stock amp (orig board),  the least you can do is replace offspecs parts - resistors and caps.  the sound character of the ST70 now with all original parts is most likely NOT the sound of the ST70 as originally designed and played 40 years ago.  why?  resistor values have drifted or noisy, caps must be leaking if not deteriorated and open..what you get is a slightly muddy sound sometimes people call "tubey" or mataba.  what to do?  


v 8)d

the home of 2-channel audio:
www.wiredstate.com/pinoydiophiles


 

 
« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2003 at 10:46 AM by vintage_dog »

Offline vintage_dog

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #69 on: Mar 03, 2003 at 10:43 AM »
vintage_dog,

Man, you are a true blue guru; we are not worthy!  Haven't seen that many tube gear since, well since I last went to hyper's.

Holding an EB soon?  Count me in please!


had 2 EBs at home na the past 2 months.  

check out www.wiredstate.com/pinoydiophiles for similar activities

v 8)d

the home of 2-channel audio:
www.wiredstate.com/pinoydiophiles




« Last Edit: Mar 03, 2003 at 10:46 AM by vintage_dog »

Online levi

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #70 on: Mar 03, 2003 at 12:35 PM »
Thanks Vintage Dog.

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #71 on: Mar 11, 2003 at 04:21 PM »
having personally listened to about 100 vintage amps over the years (i had the pleasure of befriending and visiting one known vintage collector in california with over 400 vintage gears.  he stores them in an old church!) and owning about 50 of them the past years, i can safely say that the st70 is one hell of an amp that is hard to beat in terms of overall "bang for the buck".

properly restored and even tweaked, it is clearly one of the top choices, and a musical amp.  BUT, several other vintage amps beat it in terms of power, musicality, dynamics, transparency, neutrality even at the same price point.   some amps in mind:  eico hf87, 89, 35, 50, 60, fisher 80az, heathkit w3, w4, w5,  etc. (i have excluded the marantz because it's at a different price range)

net, there are several options to the st70 and surprisingly, even cheaper than the st70.

v 8)d

here's a snapshot of some of my vintage collection:

http://www.wiredstate.com/francis/vintage_room.jpg

hi vintage dog!

it should be easy for you to recommend a pair of (high efficiency?) speakers to match with the stock st-70 given your vast experience with vintage tube gear  

can you list down three or four high efficiency speakers that are a good match with the ST-70. a shorter list should help us narrow down our choices once the funds come (i sure hope they come!)

thanks

tuff

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #72 on: Mar 11, 2003 at 05:35 PM »
the ST70 does not require a high efficiency speaker. it is push pull in design and can drive even an 86dB LS3/5A just like those of mozilla. with 35 tube watts per channel it can drive less efficient speakers. so if you have an 89dB speakers for example, enjoy!

i also own a 40W ultra-linear push-pull tube amp and i have never cranked up the volume beyond 10 o'clock driving my 89dB Infinity Kappa.

efficient speakers become an issue when you have single-ended triodes 10W down, like a colleague who has a .75W amplifier. Not typo, .75W = 3/4W of single-ended power.  I also have a DIY 2A3 single-ended amp with around 3W of power, and while it can drive the Kappa and not strain, it would benefit from speakers 94dB and up.

I can recommend a 92dB speaker if you wish, it is Axiom M3ti. I have tested it on my gears. It has great mids, smooth highs, and excellent bass.  PM dogears for details.

An affordable 90dB speaker I also heard is Heybrook and you may want to ask Rene Rivo on this one.

Another option is a 94dB Klipsch RB-3, which i tested earlier and you can find my comments here - http://www.wiredstate.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=310

Investing in a high (or relatively high) efficiency speakers will pay off, especially when you immerse yourself in single-ended tube magic later on in your tube journey.

IME, YMMV
« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2003 at 05:45 PM by arnoldc »

Offline vintage_dog

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #73 on: Mar 11, 2003 at 05:53 PM »
hi tuff,

the st70 has enough juice to drive about any speakers out there in the market.  well, i've tried them with epos, mission bookshelves, b&w, sound dynamics, harbeth, sonus faber, and even the hard to drive LS3/5A's with 85db sensitivity.

chances are, the speakers you're using now with an SS amp can be driven by the st70 ;-)

vd

 

Offline M_Shoe_Maker

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #74 on: Mar 11, 2003 at 06:04 PM »
Hello tuff,

Tama sila.  You don't need to buy super efficient speakers when using an ST70.

Just don't try driving an Apogee Scintilla with an ST70  ;D
« Last Edit: Mar 11, 2003 at 06:05 PM by M_Shoe_Maker »

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #75 on: Mar 12, 2003 at 12:31 AM »
to vintage_dog, arnoldc and m_shoe_maker

thanks for the info guys!

Offline mozilla

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #76 on: Mar 12, 2003 at 06:44 AM »
Arnold & VD,

The LS3/5a is less sensitive than that - they're 82.5db/w/m.  ;)

But ask Hypertride & he'll swear it's a match made in heaven, & I do concur (together with a lot of folks over at the LS3/5A forum).

Cheers!

Offline arnoldc

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #77 on: Mar 12, 2003 at 09:20 AM »
mozilla, damn! 82.5 dB? i will take note of that! 11 ohms, right?

Offline mozilla

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #78 on: Mar 12, 2003 at 11:10 AM »
mozilla, damn! 82.5 dB? i will take note of that! 11 ohms, right?

Yes, there are 11 & 15 ohm versions; bi-wire & mono-wire versions, made by Rogers, Spendor, Harbeth, Stirling Broadcast, Richard Allen.

All 82.5 db/w/m.

I hook mine up to the 16ohm tap of the St-70.

Online levi

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #79 on: Oct 21, 2003 at 12:52 AM »
I just bought the Rivoed ST70 of Tuff. I havent tried any serious listening yet but with the short time Im playing it, mukhang for keeps.

Offline isak0411

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #80 on: Oct 21, 2003 at 07:12 AM »
Hi levi,
good buy yan st70 ni tuff, sayang kung sa iba mapupunta....
enjoy the music
isak0411

Offline Narayan

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #81 on: Oct 21, 2003 at 07:59 PM »
Levi,

Congrats on your new gear! Pa-demo naman one of these days. :D
Cayin 265Ai
Jolida 300B SET
Marantz CD5001 OSE
CA CXC + PS Audio DAC
Meadowlark Kestrel 2/ERA D10

Online levi

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #82 on: Oct 22, 2003 at 12:43 AM »
Thanks. Anytime you can come over for a demo. Sana may preamp na ako by that time.

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #83 on: Oct 22, 2003 at 06:54 AM »
I just bought the Rivoed ST70 of Tuff. I havent tried any serious listening yet but with the short time Im playing it, mukhang for keeps.

hi levi!

swerte ka talaga sa unit na yan. if i just had the resources, i'd have kept that st70 too.

you will surely enjoy the upgrade from your classic-sounding scott integrated tube amp to this upgraded version of the ST-70. for one, its sounds much faster and a lot firmer. try listening to track 7 ("Devil May Care") of Diana Krall's "Live in Paris" CD and you will surely hear the difference.

enjoy the music!

Offline H a n $

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #84 on: Oct 22, 2003 at 08:41 AM »
LevI,

Sir Panalo yan!! next target ko rin dynaco ST70..

Congrats for keeps na yan for sure!! :o :o

Offline dexterc

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #85 on: Oct 22, 2003 at 04:46 PM »
Nice toy levi have the pleasure of listening to st-70 for a long time nung kapitbahay ko pa si isak  ;D

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #86 on: Oct 24, 2003 at 01:06 AM »
Pare buy nalang my Scott para tubes ka na rin. I can give you a rock bottom price and terms. I have no use to it kaya benta kahit lugi.

Offline isak0411

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #87 on: Oct 24, 2003 at 06:31 AM »

Quote
Pare buy nalang my Scott para tubes ka na rin. I can give you a rock bottom price and terms. I have no use to it kaya benta kahit lug

dexter,
unahin muna scott ni levi ,ang daming velong available
isip isip hehehehe ???
« Last Edit: Oct 24, 2003 at 06:33 AM by isak0411 »

Offline tuff_u_gong

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #88 on: Oct 24, 2003 at 06:44 AM »
dexter,
unahin muna scott ni levi ,ang daming velong available
isip isip hehehehe ???

i second the motion! nice thing about scott integrated amps is that you can use them easily with most speakers (e.g. your existing HT speakers). d mo na rin kailangan ng preamp and resale value is quite high and quotable in US$ since they are traded heavily at e-bay.

Offline isak0411

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Re:Dynaco ST70 Lovers Unite! (meron ba?)
« Reply #89 on: Oct 24, 2003 at 06:54 AM »
Quote
i second the motion! nice thing about scott integrated amps is that you can use them easily with most speakers (e.g. your existing HT speakers). d mo na rin kailangan ng preamp and resale value is quite high and quotable in US$ since they are traded heavily at e-bay.

home audition mo na yan !!!!! ???