Topic: Do I even need a HDMI ready-DVD player if i use my PC as HTPC? (edited title)

[Clondalkin]

sir avphile, just as sir clondalkin pointed out.. it does downscale it if connected thru hdmi.. but there if  you connect it to hdmi2/dvi connectivity and rename it to "pc" you will get the same resolution as the vga gives, but with a much more smoother toned down colors and sharpness.. i was switching to and fro form vga and hdmi2 and i figured theyre exactly similar to each other except for the settings.. and hdmi2 input wouldnt accept the mac osx passing through the hdmi connection of my avr...

so i stuck it out with vga.

As described in other sites, Samsung TV allegedly disables post processing algorithms that make the video look better but mess the quality of texts.  Hence the smoother toned down colors and sharpness really makes sense.  With my LG, what I do is to absolutely minimize the IQ settings - as in ZERO sharpness in order to achieve text quality that is most gentle and readable to the eyes for regular computing purposes.   The problem with my LG is that even with Just Scan enabled (LG uses the same term for 1:1 pixel mapping), and minimized image settings, it cannot totally get rid of text shadows and ghosts, thus I cannot possibly achieve the text crispiness of my primary LCD monitor.  My LG's implementation of Just Scan via HDMI is rather imperfect, that's why I'm curious if the Samsungs can actually do better (as touted in the net).

[av_phile1]

Text legibility also depends on dot pitch.  That's why 32" LCD TVs  cannot match a 22" LCD monitors at the same 1080p resolution when it comes to fine text.  The later typically has 100 dots per inch at 1080p while LCD TVs have only 70 dots per inch at the same resolution.   I recall an advice made about choosing PC monitors : stay away from monitors with less than 72 dpi.

[kyleryner]

THREAD RECAP:  

It's been 8 days since I first posted my queries, and I sure have learned a lot of stuff since then. Thanks to all the posters Clondalkin, Philander, AVphile, Waxx and the others who were patient enough to keep answering pesky questions from the newbie.

Things I learned went beyond my basic question..medyo nalihis din usapan sa Audio, 5.1, tapos may confusion pa from me HD kala ko yun pala HDMI lang..hehe.  Pero it's all good,  iba talaga if you are well informed sa topic. Like if ordinary Joe ka lang you buy an LCD TV thats it.. di mo maisipan na if ikabit sa PC e you can turn it into something more.. galing talaga PinoyDVD!  

After re-reading the entire thread AGAIN (to see if I missed something) I just realized my ORIGINAL question hasnt been resolved 100%. Well actually it was.. sinabi na nga na pwede e.. (makulit lang ako talaga haha) Just wanted to get some more info if possible...

"Do I even need a HDMI ready-DVD player if i use my PC"

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Replies:

Use the pc nalang as your player sir both dvd and bluray, then get the right player plus codecs sir then your good to go in playing your movies from your pc,

as for answering your subject... ill get the htib... you can use your pc to play your dvd and upconvert it the same way that pioneer can (if not better)....

You will only need HD DVD player or a HD DVD ROM drive if you have HD DVD media to maximize it, otherwise it will just serve as DVD upscaling player. Again dont be confused with the diff formats.

The pioneer you are referring is a DVD Player (only) but it supports 1080p upscaling through HDMI

YOu may need upscaler player for convenience since you dont need to boot up a PC to play DVD. (note..noy an issue with me since my PC is on almost 24/7  and convenience wise its so near my TV...) And again, if you use your VC, you are outputting the video as the screen resolution, to output 1080P, you will need additional software.

.

When I switch between video modes, I see sa display info (Channel, PC/AV1/HDMI and res) So when I play DVD (from my old DVD player) it says 480i.  When I boot up my PC, the LCD will flash 720p initially, but when Windows loads, i check again its 1080p na. When I play the same DVD from my PC Drive, it plays as 1080p na.

Its that simple? Automatically its "upscaled" already? (I use VLC for now).  

So based on the replies above and my observation, buying an HDMI player will just be a complete waste! Its nothing more than emulating a PC's capacity to do so..

I realize im beating a dead horse here.. I just wanted to emphasize that thanks to PinoyDVD and my kakulitan  , I just saved me some cash from being salestalked into getting an HDMI player I dont really need (since my plan all along was to connect my PC to the LCD) All the salespeople when I was canvassing was convincing me to get one and I ALMOST fell for such a package (Devant Deluxe with free HDMI player) or the Panasonic C10 from SM where I almost used the 5,000 discount to buy a 4,000 HDMI player...) Even the temptation to buy a cheap HDMI player (Rainbow, Pensonic, Promac) for 2,xxx+ was there.. now I realize  there's no need to, right?

Just some FINAL clarification.. (promise!!)

Philander was talking about using special software to maximize res and the diff bet screen res.. is he talking about using ATI Catalyst Control Center... where I can use "EXTEND DESKTOP" so I have 2 desktops..

Monitor #1 is my PC monitor (set at 1024x768)

Monitor #2 is my LCD TV
Here's the tricky/weird part.. when i set it at 1024x768.. its says its 1080p input
                                        when I set it at 1280.. its says its 720i input
                                        when I set it at 1360..up to 1920..its 1080p again.

What res should I set it too? Maximum of Panny 32 is 1360 I believe. When I change from 1024 to 1360, the FULLSCREEN mode of VLC will be taller (the black bars of top and bottom become smaller on a widescreen video I played) But it stays the same between 1360 and 1920. The only diff between the two is the wallpaper becomes smaller as do the text.. NOT ideal for PC use. But Video watching, height is the same (I had someone stand in front of the LCD and point to the top and bottom position of the movie while I messed with the settings.. )

Should I just leave it at 1360 or set it maximum to 1920? Quality wise my untrained eyes cant tell if the PQ improved. Its all gorgeous to me. I'd even say the same for the 1024 res, except that the height nga is shorter at 1024 for widescreen movie. For videos that are full screen already, really wouldnt know if there is a difference. Is there?

So thats hopefully my final clarification..   Is that all the additional software that I need? and VLC? (although i didnt even mess with any settings of VLC.. just playback as I normally do). Any others that I need to know/check out?

When you say "UPSCALING" do you need special player or software or is it just a matter of setting the LCD to the correct res in the PC? (in my case ATI CCC)

I also installed XBMC.. looks cool, will experiment with it but dont think there is upscaling going on there?

Once again, thanks to everyone for all the advice and feedback...

[av_phile1]

When I switch between video modes, I see sa display info (Channel, PC/AV1/HDMI and res) So when I play DVD (from my old DVD player) it says 480i.  When I boot up my PC, the LCD will flash 720p initially, but when Windows loads, i check again its 1080p na. When I play the same DVD from my PC Drive, it plays as 1080p na.

You might be confusing INPUT resolution with Native resolution.  Your Panny has a native resolution of 1366 x 768 like most other 32"  LCD TVs.   That's its maximum display resolution.  So when you see 1080p, that means your LCD TV recognizes a 1080p input from your PC which I presume has its video card set to 1080p.  The LCD TV will downscale your 1080p input to its native resolution.  When you play your 480i DVD on your PC, your PC upscales the material to 1080p and sends it to your LCD TV which promptly downscales it to 768p.  When you play your 480i DVD on your DVD player directly connected to the LCD TV, the LCD TV recognizes it as 480i and upscales it to its native 768p resolution.  

Here's the tricky/weird part.. when i set it at 1024x768.. its says its 1080p input
                                        when I set it at 1280.. its says its 720i input
                                        when I set it at 1360..up to 1920..its 1080p again.

What res should I set it too? Maximum of Panny 32 is 1360 I believe. When I change from 1024 to 1360, the FULLSCREEN mode of VLC will be taller (the black bars of top and bottom become smaller on a widescreen video I played) But it stays the same between 1360 and 1920. The only diff between the two is the wallpaper becomes smaller as do the text.. NOT ideal for PC use. But Video watching, height is the same (I had someone stand in front of the LCD and point to the top and bottom position of the movie while I messed with the settings..

It looks like your LCD TV is trying to recognize those various video card settings. Setting the video card res to anything above the  LCD TV resolution might be recognized as 1080p input.  Not sure why it senses a 1024 x 768 as 1080p input.  But the display should look the same from 1366 x 768 to 1920 x 1080 input  If you set the video card at 1366 x 768, that matches the TV's native resolution.  Anything higher will be downscaled to that resolution but it will just indicate 1080p input.  Lower than 1366 input, like at 1280. the TV might just indicate 720p input.

[Clondalkin]

Just to supplement, if I understand you correctly, if you set CCC to 1365x768 or 1920x1080, both are displayed on your Panasonic LCD?  Tama ba?

If that is the case, you have just shown what “1080-Capable, 720p native LCD” is all about.

The only thing I can say about the “input indications” of your LCD HDTV is that it doesn’t matter.  Hehehe.  Ideal set-up would be to match the CCC settings to the native resolution of your LCD, which should be 1365x768.   That way, you’d be able to maintain the native aspect ratio for best IQ.  For any other settings, you and your LCD will be tricking each other MUTUALLY.  Hehehe.  Since you are having a dual-monitor set-up, make sure to set both monitors in their native resolution.

As Ive posted previously, the PC is the original upscaling DVD.  Why?  First, because your LCD and the old school high frequency CRT monitors are natively progressive (as opposed to interlaced) and you are setting your video card to match that.  Second because your ATI card has built-in video processing algorithm to improve the quality of image. Your Panasonic LCD should have internal scalers to 720p as well, but current gen VGA cards have excellent video enhancement engine.

768p, 720p - dont get confused. They are only different technically on paper.  A 1365x768 monitor should technically be called 768p but Moms and Pops would remember 720p easier.   But the Japanese are very technical indeed because they wont call non full HD HDTVs as 720p but "NON Full HD with 720 or higher vertical resolution."  See..hehehe

If you are satisfied with VLC, that’s fine.  Just bear in mind that if you catch the 1080p MKV bug, there are better software (freeware) players and CODECS around.  With regard to DVD playback, a player like PowerDVD takes full advantage of the processing power of your VGA card.

[Waxx]

galing no!! prehas na prehas ang advice at sagot...


pdvd rocks coz of people who are kind enough to answer patiently and give you the RIGHT and PROPER advices and value for your hard earned cash... thats why i never hesitate in this forum coz i find that the community is very helpful and very unselfish.. bawal dito ang keeping secrets.. lahat sharing.. most of the members will give you great and sound advice.. all you have to do is listen..

back to topic:

kyle.. getting a dvd upscaling player would be useless now, since you have a better upscaling htpc..  use the saved cash for rainy days.. called sars..

[kyleryner]

@av_phile,

    Thanks again for your "INPUTS" (pun intended)  


@Clondalkin,

Just to supplement, if I understand you correctly, if you set CCC to 1365x768 or 1920x1080, both are displayed on your Panasonic LCD?  Tama ba?

 Yes.. both can be displayed. The 1920x1080 resolution shrinks the desktop wallpaper and the text shrinks too. So I guess in that sense its true na nakayanan nya 1920 resolution. But when I play a video full screen it's the same between the 2  (as far as i can tell) I guess this what av_phile meant na dont confuse native res with input res...


 
  

Since you are having a dual-monitor set-up, make sure to set both monitors in their native resolution.

   Ive set the Panasonic TV to 1360, (as u said the max res it can have) and my 15" PC monitor to 1024.
   This is when I use EXTEND DESKTOP, so i can have 2 monitors with diff res. This is ideal when I use VLC, bec I can DRAG the video to the Panasonic and fullscreen it (@1360) then I can whisk the mouse back and continue working on my PC while someone else is watching on the Panasonic. Cool eh?  

    Problem is when I use XBMC. Cant figure out at first how to drag XBMC (its always on fullscreen mode) to the Panasonic. Then I managed later but it's in a window even when i maximize it.

    So I just opted to CLONE monitors. I set BOTH (well just one, but it sets them both the same since its a CLONE) to 1360. My PC Monitor gets compressed, so it will be awkward working on it, but I can now run XBMC fullscreen on the Panasonic.

    Bought a PC Remote at CDRKing today for 380 pesos, then a 50 pesos USB cable extension.. set up the IR port near the TV and using the Remote to navigate XBMC.. choose files, play, stop, rewind.. cool! It even has a weather channel...  Couch potato (or Bed potato in my case) na talaga labas ko nito... LOL!!

If you are satisfied with VLC, that’s fine.  Just bear in mind that if you catch the 1080p MKV bug, there are better software (freeware) players and CODECS around.  With regard to DVD playback, a player like PowerDVD takes full advantage of the processing power of your VGA card.

Boss, which free players do you mean? So i can try it. VLC is great.. its quick and easy if 1 file viewing lang. When I like to browse or watch multiple shows I plan to use XBMC.. (tamad talaga..lapit lang naman ng PC e.. ayaw ng tumayo! haha)  But XBMC cant play my DVD discs.  I have PowerDVD.. always found it to be too cumbersome.

Will try MS Media Center also.. but normally I dont like their stuff (windows Media Player nila too cumbersome  and lacks codecs...)

Any of you guys use Media Centers and PC Remote Control?

galing no!! prehas na prehas ang advice at sagot...


pdvd rocks coz of people who are kind enough to answer patiently and give you the RIGHT and PROPER advices and value for your hard earned cash... thats why i never hesitate in this forum coz i find that the community is very helpful and very unselfish.. bawal dito ang keeping secrets.. lahat sharing.. most of the members will give you great and sound advice.. all you have to do is listen..

back to topic:

kyle.. getting a dvd upscaling player would be useless now, since you have a better upscaling htpc..  use the saved cash for rainy days.. called sars..

You said it Waxx! PDVD Rocks!!  

As for useless na to buy upscaling DVD player.. that's what I figured nga, pero sarap pakinggan.. nakatipid ako..hehe  mga salesman na yan.. muntik na akong ma-sales talk... nice feeling na di nila ako naisahan.. bwa ha ha!!!