Author Topic: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"  (Read 44504 times)

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Offline rse

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #90 on: Jan 04, 2010 at 08:50 PM »
Sheer observation, no scientific basis:

Most lower class like watching Pinoy crap.  Most middle and upper class like watching Hollywood crap.

Offline d4nu65+3R

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #91 on: Jan 04, 2010 at 10:22 PM »
I respectfully disagree. I'd much rather watch a crappy American/foreign movie then at least I can laugh at its incompetence rather than be embarrassed by a crappy Filipino movie. It will only make me depressed.

"THIS."

Offline Arulco

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #92 on: Jan 04, 2010 at 11:14 PM »
I respectfully disagree. I'd much rather watch a crappy American/foreign movie then at least I can laugh at its incompetence rather than be embarrassed by a crappy Filipino movie. It will only make me depressed.

Amen to that!

Offline stickfighter

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #93 on: Jan 04, 2010 at 11:41 PM »
I respectfully disagree. I'd much rather watch a crappy American/foreign movie then at least I can laugh at its incompetence rather than be embarrassed by a crappy Filipino movie. It will only make me depressed.

+1 Agree ;D

Offline deweyfinn

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #94 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 12:23 AM »
With all these up and comers doing digital, what next? When the South Koreans cut off the crap from Hollywood, did they imagine Park Chan Wook? Kang Woo-Suk? Jang Sun-Woo? Bong Joon-ho? Kim Ki Duk? Hong Sang Soon? Stretch your imagination, cast off fear. Do we need to wait for the Americans to hand us our cinema ready made, the way they did our independence in 1946?

Like, how can we even try to appreciate what South Korea has done in its cinema when their products don't even reach local shores (no, D-Wars doesn't count).

There was a time when Hong Kong and Japanese productions managed to hit our shores...WTF happened?

Where are the Hayao Miyazaki anime masterpieces?

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #95 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 11:51 AM »
No one brings them in because they're too busy bringing in the Hollywood blockbusters.

It's the same even in the US. You get dozens and dozens of copies of The Half Blood Bore and no one bothers to push Desplechin's A Christmas Tale, one of the best films of 2008. Why? Because Hollywood's drowning out the smaller voices, including our own.

It's time we turned their volume down.
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2010 at 11:53 AM by Noel_Vera »


Offline av_phile1

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #97 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 01:21 PM »
When I asked what's next I was hoping someone would tell me how they plan to go about limiting or banning hollywood movies and what to expect after.  It's so easy mouthing some advocacy about it.

How do you invoke the Cultural Exception principle in the GATT/WTO/Unesco requirement that France, China, Taiwan, et al have been granted.  Are we already enjoying  it considering that we are in violation of the National Treatment principle behind GATT that explicitly forbids giving incentives to commercial products in the guise of protecting culture? There are already tax rebates on local films.  There's  a pending act in congress exempting domestic films with GP and PG-13 rating from the 30% amusement tax.   There's another pending lifting the 12% VAT on imported film making equipment.  Yet despite these incentives, where are we?

Then what?  Will the government cast a safety net to theater owners who will lose income from foreign films?  And what other incentive is there to increase film production to fill in the void?  

Importation quota is meant to control competition with foreign products.  But will there be a quota set against home entertainment materials like DVDs and BDs, because these are other competition channels.  How about piracy?  Will they be finally stamped out?  How about the internet, will the government ban torrent sites?  How?  Because if not, any quota of hollywood films goes out the window because people can just watch them at home.  

Like I said, it's too late.  Any kind of protectionist importation quota should have been done right after a disastrous calamity or war that threatened to eradicate a culture or at least make it difficult for a nation to compete against imported products from countries that didn't suffer the same fate.  That was what France did after WWII, protecting its film industry after the war devastated its economy.  The French had worked hard to define cinema as a cultural product and had a cultural exception principle adopted in the GATT.  Same with South Korea after the Korean War.   We should have done the same thing like France after WWII.   But we were too confident we had the stars that we claim to be better than hollywood stars.  We had a Paraluman who was more beautiful than a Rita Hayworth.  We had Fernando Poe Jr, that many say was better than Gary Cooper.  We had an Amalia Fuentes which many say is more beautiful than Elizabeth Taylor.  In short, we thought nothing of competing with hollywood films and we actually trumped many of them in the local box office.  

Now in the age of internet and the opening of commercial borders, protectionism has lost any of its power to preserve culture.  South Korea didn't get its cinema up because of it.  Sure it helped at the start, but if not for their intrepid directors and excellent movie stories that really showed them at their cinematic best, no amount of protectionsim would have brought them to where they are today.  Same with Japan, China and India.  Where is France cinema today.  More than half a century of protectionism and they still claim they need it to get an even playing field.  
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2010 at 03:28 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #98 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 01:50 PM »
GATT is frankly something we walked into without much critical thought. "Oh free market, it's got to be good for us." Yeah, right--did us just fine in 2008 and 2009.

I'd say the key word is 'commercial products.' Reword and redefine Filipino movies to be cultural products where the studios are renumerated for expenses and not much else (profit can be distributed through a dozen other means) should get around GATT provisions (I say redo those treaties, but assume the political will isn't there, or at least not yet). We're so creative about going around rules and regulations I can't imagine this should give us a hard time.

As for further details, I suggest checking out the French subsidy system (the stress there is cultural as opposed to commercial preservation), not to mention South Korea's quota system. Throw in China's too. Works for them, don't see why it won't work for us.

Offline CMac

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #99 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 02:10 PM »
Imagine your children growing up with mostly Filipino shows/movies. Puro kabaklaan, kajologan, prostitusyon, incest, panggagaya, kaingayan (hiyawan), sayawan (ng kalandian), neverending sequels, telefantash*ts, recycled casts (parang wala nang ibang mahanap), etc.

All I can say that I thank my dad for not permitting me to watch Filipino shows when I was growing up. 

I hate to generalize but that's the way i see it. Global warming is enough of a dilemma for our future generations.

 

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #100 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 02:22 PM »
Naw, we just watch Hollywood garbage, where white skin is better, girls are sexy and objects of rape and lust, gay men are comic relief and/or serial killers, Islam is the Devil's religion, the gun is glorified beyond all measure, and the USA beats all countries at war.

Oh, and "kajologan, prostitusyon, incest, panggagaya, kaingayan (hiyawan), sayawan (ng kalandian), neverending sequels, telefantash*ts, recycled casts (parang wala nang ibang mahanap), etc."

It's not that different. At least there's a Filipino flavor to our garbage (I agree with X).

"I thank my dad for not permitting me to watch Filipino shows when I was growing up"

No O'Hara, Brocka, Bernal, Ad. Castillo, Guillen, the two de Leons, Silos, Conde?

You poor thing.


« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2010 at 03:07 PM by Noel_Vera »

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #101 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 02:25 PM »
Puro kabaklaan

Whoa--so what do you mean by that? Something wrong with homosexuality? Some of our regular posters are gay.
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2010 at 02:26 PM by Noel_Vera »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #102 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 02:32 PM »
GATT is frankly something we walked into without much critical thought. "Oh free market, it's got to be good for us." Yeah, right--did us just fine in 2008 and 2009.

I'd say the key word is 'commercial products.' Reword and redefine Filipino movies to be cultural products where the studios are renumerated for expenses and not much else (profit can be distributed through a dozen other means) should get around GATT provisions (I say redo those treaties, but assume the political will isn't there, or at least not yet). We're so creative about going around rules and regulations I can't imagine this should give us a hard time.

As for further details, I suggest checking out the French subsidy system (the stress there is cultural as opposed to commercial preservation), not to mention South Korea's quota system. Throw in China's too. Works for them, don't see why it won't work for us.


Except for China, all the countries you mentioned with movie protectionist policies are signatories to the GATT. France and India signed it in 1948, Japan in 1955 and South Korea in 1968.  

The problem lies in differentiating cultural products and commercial products.  The former is entitled to GATT exemption in the interest of protecting cultural diversity, the other is not.  What culture are you protecting with Darna, Iskul Bukol, Wapakman, Panday or Shake Rattle and Roll? There's so few attempta to paint our culture in our cinema.  Rizal, Muro Ami, Himala, Oro Plata Mata, Macho Dancer. Tuli, Foster Child, Caregiver, Kubrador, maybe.  I think you have to show more than that when you want to seek GATT exemption.

And protectionism will just be another toothless grin with a borderless and impossible-to-regulate internet age sprinkled with piracy.  We should have done it as early as the 70s.  Now, the challenge of global competitiveness can no longer be set aside in favor of parochial interests.  Better to rise to the occasion than hide behind anchronistic trade barriers.  We've been doing it already, trumping hollywood blockbusters in the local box office.  We just need to produce more.  It's really no different from getting the entrepreneurial risk taking spirit among pinoys in any industry.  We need to get more producers to invest on Pinoy directors who make good in filmfests. 

Sadly, just as we don't have entrepreneurs to engage in our own car making industry, or consumer electronics (Do we have a Pinoy Cellphone or PC?), our cinema industry mirrors all our lackluster enterprising efforts.  We can be world class artists, but not world class industry leaders and businessmen. No amount of trade protectionism can solve that.
« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2010 at 03:17 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline d4nu65+3R

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #103 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 02:39 PM »

All I can say that I thank my dad for not permitting me to watch Filipino shows when I was growing up. 
 

i think that is a bit harsh since it's always been more of a personal choice for me not to see local films for most of the reasons cited.

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #104 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 03:06 PM »
"all the countries you mentioned with movie protectionist policies are signatories to the GATT"

And that's our chance right there. If they can come up with regulations on the inflow of Hollywood movies and remain GATT signatories, then we can too. What have they got that we don't got?

"I think you have to show more than that when you want to seek GATT exemption. "

That's a marketing problem. Marketing needs the will, first of all. Bong may be an idiot, as so many here noted, but he at least spoke out.

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #105 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 03:22 PM »
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Like I said, it's too late.Any kind of protectionist importation quota should have been done right after a disastrous calamity or war that threatened to eradicate a culture or at least make it difficult for a nation to compete against imported products from countries that didn't suffer the same fate.
 

And what do you call this global economic meltdown? What do you call Hollywood's gobbling up the Hong Kong and Mexico markets?

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Same with South Korea after the Korean War.   

Yeah. Check recent South Korean history--they imposed their latest quotas in the 90s, after Hollywood brought down their industry.
 
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South Korea didn't get its cinema up because of it.  Sure it helped at the start

And that's what I'm calling for--a start. Turn down that volume, and let's start.

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no amount of protectionsim would have brought them to where they are today

They still have a quota.

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Where is France cinema today.  More than half a century of protectionism and they still claim they need it to get an even playing field.


It's all about money, folks. Hollywood has money, we don't. We do, however, have the power to legislate. That's the function of government.

Offline CMac

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #106 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 04:20 PM »
Naw, we just watch Hollywood garbage, where white skin is better, girls are sexy and objects of rape and lust, gay men are comic relief and/or serial killers, Islam is the Devil's religion, the gun is glorified beyond all measure, and the USA beats all countries at war

No Brocka, Bernal, Ad. Castillo, Guillen, the two de Leons, Silos, Conde?

You poor thing.

Never said that I only watch Hollywood films. And you seem to be the expert on Tagalog films and film history, so good luck with that. ;) I still sleep well at night so no worries.

Whoa--so what do you mean by that? Something wrong with homosexuality? Some of our regular posters are gay.

Nice try in stirring things up for your delight. "Some of our regular posters are gay." - bravo!

I have gay friends. Who doesn't? But what they do with their “leisure time” is something I'm not interested in. Same applies to everyone with different beliefs.

I'll cite one example since you're clearly enjoying the discussion regarding "kabaklaan" - gayness.

Joey's Quirky World - Should be a very educational and informative program, especially for kids. But who the hell knows why they had to put 2 straight men to commentate using gay lingo and intonation (with the annoying shrieks if I may add). Add another fat, straight cross-dressing guy playing assistant to the equation and you get the general idea of what I’m trying to imply. I doubt the children will be able to pick up useful words to store in their vocabulary banks after watching such shows.

And if the show was targeted for the younger audiences, is that the network’s surefire and proven way of getting through to them? If it is, then that says a lot of what you're going to expect with these network producers who are also into film making. What's the new Michael V. show? I forgot the name - all I know that it's just another show with a cross-dressing host. But who cares right? It sells.




Offline Klaus Weasley

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #107 on: Jan 05, 2010 at 08:32 PM »
It's the same even in the US. You get dozens and dozens of copies of The Half Blood Bore and no one bothers to push Desplechin's A Christmas Tale, one of the best films of 2008. Why? Because Hollywood's drowning out the smaller voices, including our own.

Because Harry Potter movies grossed billions of dollars worldwide and has a very wide fan-base whereas A Christmas Tale is a small French drama with limited audience appeal. I mean, you can't sell merchandise on a film about a family struggling with mental illness during Christmas. Average Joe Movie Goer won't go far that. Most it can do is a limited art house run, probably a few festival screenings and then it's straight to the Criterion Collection (which is releasing it, FYI).

I think a more apt criticism on the "imperialism" of Hollywood is this: There ARE non-Hollywood movies out there that are PERFECTLY maketable and can compete with Hollywood films at least in terms of story and have the potential to be breakout hits and win over Average Joe Movie Goer. Like The Ring, Let the Right One In, [REC], The Orphanage etc. but what does Hollywood do? They buy the property and remake them in English so they get to keep a bigger chunk of the money instead of doing what they should do: Allow them to be distributed wider and market it. Hollywood is also fond of convincing Average Joe Movie Goer that films with subtitles are automatically boring and only for film snobs.  Pan's Labyrinth and Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon are exceptions to the rule but then again, their respective directors have already worked with Hollywood, so maybe it's not.

« Last Edit: Jan 05, 2010 at 08:35 PM by Klaus Weasley »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #108 on: Jan 06, 2010 at 09:42 AM »
 
And what do you call this global economic meltdown? What do you call Hollywood's gobbling up the Hong Kong and Mexico markets?

Every country is experiencing the global recession. But nowhere near the calamity of a WW II.

Mexico is so much like the Philippines. More than half their population wants to own green cards.  And because of its proximity to the land of milk and honey, most of their local stars and directors got their wishes.  You have Mexican Holywood stars like Ramon Novaro, Lupe Velez, Cantinflas, Dolores del Rio, Gilbert Roland, Ricardo Montalban, Gael García Bernal, Diego Luna, Salma Hayek, to mention some.  And great directors who landed hollywood jobs or had workls distributed worldwide to commercial success like Alfonso Cuaron (Y Tu Mama Tambian, Children of Men, Harry Potter PA),  Guillermo del Toro (Pan's Labyrinth, Hellboy, Blade II). Alejandro González Iñárritu (Babel, 21 Grams).  They probably don't need protectionism as much as we do.  Mexico could have invoked GATT exemption.  But it's interesting to note that AFAIK no Latin American country ever took advantage of the cultural exception in the GATT. Not that it matters to us, but I can understand their indifference to the idea.  

Hongkong cinema is a bit more complicated with its integration into mainland China so that any distinction between the two has increasingly blurred over the years.  The main factor in its decline include an increasingly sophisticated population that found Hollywood movies more acceptable to their taste than the local films that have spiraled down in terms of quality.  The Asian financial crisis of the 97 was the final straw that broke the mighty private sector that has been financing movies eversince. Most of these entrepreneurial producers found themselves financially bankrupt to further make movies the way they used to.  Hongkong cinema is unique as it's the only Asian cinema that never got a single cent from government incentives and yet really stood on its own against Hollywood in the international market for the years before its decline in the 90s.   Local hongkong market is just too small to support local cinema which promptly embarked on world audiences as its markets.  It's no different from the history of its flag carrier Cathay Pacific which could not have survived with no domestic market if not for its international operation.  Hongkong cinema's decline is almost inevitable with a confluence of socio-economic and political factors that now subsume the industry into the larger mainland China cinema especially with China already making international quality films.

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Yeah. Check recent South Korean history--they imposed their latest quotas in the 90s, after Hollywood brought down their industry.

Yeah and all their films had been been funded by the government. With the exception of some from the private sector like Samsung.

They had their quotas revised 20 years ago. A good 5 years before the spread of internet popularity, 10 years before the spread of piracy.  And they were only able to produce their first landmark hit Shiri in 1999.  
If South Korea had done it 9 years after, what makes you think embarking on protectionism at this late stage right in the presence of torrents and pirated moves would benefit local cinema. It won't  Your best bet is for those new breed of directors winning internal film fests to be tapped by hollywood to make films for international distribution.  That is, if local producers won't tap them.

  
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And that's what I'm calling for--a start. Turn down that volume, and let's start.

I'm sure Bong Revilla has his sights on the Presidency.  If ever he becomes President, you'll get what you want.

Besides, I have the impression we're already taking the cultural exception in GATT.  We have tax rebates on movies.  Congress has a pending legislation on exempting local GP and PG13 movies from the 30% amusement tax and the 12% VAT for movie making equipment.


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They still have a quota.

Of course,  once you have it, why give it up.   The French had it for the last 70 years and they still won't give it up.  

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It's all about money, folks. Hollywood has money, we don't. We do, however, have the power to legislate. That's the function of government.

There are already legislative action pending in congress short of making quotas to help the movie industry.  These are considered subsidies that are already in violation of GATT unless we have invoked the cultural exception principle.  And since we're on the topic of legislation, why not ask the government for funding as well, like what South Korea had done?  

The cinema is just like any industry where you need investments for it to really flourish.  Attracting investments won't happen if new businessmen don't find the industry lucrative enough. The problem is the small domestic market. You can only squeeze out so much from a local market.  Protectionsim is a local market solution as it enables local producers to maximize revenues from a market that has little choices.  But there's never a guarantee you'll be able to churn out products with a global world class appeal.   There's a higher chance that because producers would be making more profit with mediocre films under a protected industry, they'd be content with it and not risk venturing out into world class quality products that cost more to make.

Like I said, it's too late in the age of internet and piracy.  You stand a much better chance of attracting people who watch Titanic to watch Iskul Bukol if you had started protectionism as late as the 80s.  Marcos should have done it with his MIFF.  And coupled with the great films created at that time like Scorpio Nights and Oro, that could have really ignited a lasting golden age of our cinema with an international flavour. The benefits of movie protectionism would have been felt in the next generation of movie goers who would not have been weaned with Hollywood crap.  And more importantly, local producers would have been well exposed to global competitiveness to rise above mediocrity.  I have little quarrel with partially closing your market to foreign products, but only if you couple that with sustained drive towards world-class product excellence.  And timing is of the essence.

But now, forget it.  What makes you think the people who watch Harry Potter or Transformers can be weaned away to movie houses showing Wapakman and Shake Rattle and Roll.  With protectionism, they'll just download the Hollywood torrents and watch happily their Hollywood crap in the comfort of their homes. Or go to their nearest tiangge to buy pirated copies. Cheaper besides.  With unabated piracy and torrents with home increasingly getting their hands on cheaper PCs, the  next generation of movie goers will still be exposed to them.  

Nope, whatever promise a protectionist economy model has is now forever lost in the overarching presence of the internet and an unyielding global intellectual piracy.  Sure, South Korea et al, still have it.  But like I said, they won't give that up and it's just another remnant of an old world order when economies were more fragmented.  

Your real hope lies in having those new breed of directors we have to get noticed by Hollywood filmmakers to make movies for international marketing and distribution. Or any businessman who are avid film enthusiasts. Like Samsung in Korea.  Unfortunately we don't have anything similar to Samsung. Perhaps if Gokongwei, Lucio Tan, Henry Sy or the Ayalas and Ortigas can be persuaded to finance some of these good directors, we might get there faster.  The real advantage of Korea is their highly evolved nationalistic psyche which has made them what they are.  But that's another topic.

« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2010 at 03:12 PM by av_phile1 »

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #109 on: Jan 06, 2010 at 11:37 AM »
I have gay friends. Who doesn't?

Classic! "I'm not an anti-Semite--all my best friends are Jews."

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Joey's Quirky World - Should be a very educational and informative program, especially for kids. But who the hell knows why they had to put 2 straight men to commentate using gay lingo and intonation
Some people find swardspeak fun. I do.

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And if the show was targeted for the younger audiences

I don't see anything wrong with exposing younger folk to homosexuality. I know gay couples that raise kids and they do a better job than most straight couples do, their kids are more squared away too.


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"If it is, then that says a lot of what you're going to expect with these network producers who are also into film making.

My problem with this is the broad brushstroke. If you snipe at TV producers (and I do think most of them deserve it) and commercial film producers (and I do think they deserve it), you need to point out that there is good work being produced out there. Otherwise, you're stereotyping and dismissing out of hand.

« Last Edit: Jan 06, 2010 at 11:39 AM by Noel_Vera »

Offline Noel_Vera

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #110 on: Jan 06, 2010 at 12:15 PM »
Quote
Every country is experiencing the global recession. But nowhere near the calamity of a WW II.

I'm not all that compelled by a need to obey the spirit and letter of GATT, mainly because this free market thing is part of what pulled the world economy over the brink.


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Nope, whatever promise a protectionist economy model has is now forever lost in the overarching presence of the internet and an unyielding global intellectual piracy.  

Yeah. So what's the percentage of internet use in the Filipino population? People seem to think the whole country revolves around the middle to upper classes of Metro Manila. Need to remember that a majority of the population is still at the poverty line, and that majority of the people live in the provinces, where movies make a good chunk of their income.

Incidentally, in the period of 2003 to 2004, we did 97 films to Hong Kong's 92. In 2008 we made 89 films to  Hong Kong's 53. We're still outproducing them, for all the wrong reasons, sure, and using crap, but there's still a considerable market out there.

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Sure, South Korea et al, still have it.  But like I said, they won't give that up and it's just another remnant of an old world order when economies were more fragmented.  


That's the old new world order you say is taking over the old world order. There's a new new world order coming around thanks to the meltdown and it has a lot in common with the old world order. Less globalization, more localization. Checks and regulations on trading, and the selling and buying of stocks. Smaller companies, catering to local markets. GATT is already the detritus of that old new world order. Old news, folks.

The economies that escaped or are recovering fast are those that aren't fully globalized, or have a large domestic market to build on (China is the biggest example, India is doing fine, and actually the Philippines isn't too bad off, compared to the US--or it's been down for so long it didn't have far to fall).

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Your real hope lies in having those new breed of directors we have to get noticed by Hollywood filmmakers to make movies for international marketing and distribution.

We've had this argument before. Remember all those J-horror remakes? That's the basic result.


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The real advantage of Korea is their highly evolved nationalistic psyche which have made them what they are.  But that's another topic.

Not really; it's the heart of another pet peeve of mine. What is it about our envy of other countries? Why do we think this or that country has a superhuman psyche able to solve economic problems and turn water into wine? Why do we look to other countries, shrug our shoulders helplessly, and say 'it's in our and their nature"? We've done it before, we can do it again. Heck, I look at our young filmmakers--and really, you naysayers should meet them, they are an awesome bunch--and they move mountains, perform miracles out of almost nothing. They're incredible, and they're the source of my inspiration, my 'secret weapon' so to speak, only I don't want to keep them secret.

Talk to them. Watch their films. If you can, help them (I try, whenever I can).
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2010 at 01:53 PM by Noel_Vera »

Offline av_phile1

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #111 on: Jan 06, 2010 at 02:58 PM »
I'm not all that compelled by a need to obey the spirit and letter of GATT, mainly because this free market thing is part of what pulled the world economy over the brink.


That's the line of capitalist naysayers who immediately impugn what is wrong with capitalism.  But it's very superficial.  Nobody said that a free market economy was  perfect.  What caused the current global crisis is the ABUSE of the liberties afforded by free market economy.  Not because of it.  China is a example of a socialist capitalist economy that's well managed.  

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Yeah. So what's the percentage of internet use in the Filipino population? People seem to think the whole country revolves around the middle to upper classes of Metro Manila. Need to remember that a majority of the population is still at the poverty line, and that majority of the people live in the provinces, where movies make a good chunk of their income.

Unfortunately these PC owning people are the ones you want to watch local films, not those who are happy with Iskul Bukol.  Mediocrity is not what you want even if it means local box office success.  You want an international market for your films, and that means world class quality. And the people best poised to recognize what world class quality is are rarely your teeming masses, unless they get the right education.

On the otherhand, the teeming ruk will not want to watch your arthouse films either.  They like to see their idols on the big screens.  The problem is aggravated when you foster the divide. Why is it so difficult to make arthouse-quality films with their favorite stars in them?  Because producers want quick profits so they make quickies.  With or without a hollywood film ban or quota, these same people will be watching pinoy films. And producers will continue to pander to their taste.  So where's the advantage?  


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That's the old new world order you say is taking over the old world order. There's a new new world order coming around thanks to the meltdown and it has a lot in common with the old world order. Less globalization, more localization. Checks and regulations on trading, and the selling and buying of stocks. Smaller companies, catering to local markets. GATT is already the detritus of that old new world order. Old news, folks.

Globalization remains on tract.  It's irreversible. The global crisis has actually hastened the creation of mega corporations that bought out or absorbed other companies in financial distress. They are now better poised to pursue a much more vigorous and unified global penetration of their products.  You see airlines, financial institutions, car makers merging or consolidating.   Globalization has never been stronger.  Business outsourcing is blurring geo-economic boundaries.  With the internet as its distribution and marketing channel, it's almost impossible for a small company to remain small.  Once you have the whole world as your market, you'd have to have the muscle to supply growing global demand.  Amazon and eBay couldn't help getting big even if they wanted to remain small.  

Hollywood now make films using the cheapest resources - actors from China or Australia shooting in New Zealand and being edited in Bratislava.  Using motion sensors, they can capture human acting nuances in a backlot somewhere in China and processed by CGI facilities in India, etc etc. The entire world is one small business community now.    

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The economies that escaped or are recovering fast are those that aren't fully globalized, or have a large domestic market to build on (China is the biggest example, India is doing fine, and actually the Philippines isn't too bad off, compared to the US--or it's been down for so long it didn't have far to fall).

Just like in the Asian financial crisis of 97 when we survived unscathed, we're not in any height to get hurt falling.  

China and India are among those at the center of globalization.  Their outsourcing business for western companies epitomize exactly what globalization is about. China is now a socialist free market economy with global reach after Japan and the US.  Your examples are exactly what  properly managed capitalist economy with global reach is about.


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We've had this argument before. Remember all those J-horror remakes? That's the basic result.

That's globalization, film ideas can come anywhere. Just as it can be made anywhere where's it's more cost effective to make.

The benefit is not so much if the remake is good or not.  Of course, better if it s good.  But more on the fact that they get  a wider international audience.   Ringu was the highest grossing film in Japan and promptly got noticed by Hollywood who was fast getting bankrupt of film ideas.  It's interesting to note that its Hollywood remake actually grossed more in Japan than the original and brought the film to a much wider audience.  This started the trend for Hollywood remaking local films that have done well in their respective countries.  Our own Sigaw was remade as the Echo.

It's a good start and eventually the reputation can precede you if you sustain it with really good movies from your own, not hollywood remakes.  The problem is that we make films for pinoys, very few with an eye for the international market.  When you start thinking GLOBAL, that's when you rise above mediocrity.

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Not really; it's the heart of another pet peeve of mine. What is it about our envy of other countries? Why do we think this or that country has a superhuman psyche able to solve economic problems and turn water into wine? Why do we look to other countries, shrug our shoulders helplessly, and say 'it's in our and their nature"? We've done it before, we can do it again. Heck, I look at our young filmmakers--and really, you naysayers should meet them, they are an awesome bunch--and they move mountains, perform miracles out of almost nothing. They're incredible, and they're the source of my inspiration, my 'secret weapon' so to speak, only I don't want to keep them secret.

Different peoples have different mental make-up and predispositions defined by their tradition and culture.  While it doesn't mean that some races are superior than others, some just have a more productive attitude collectively as a nation than others.  The Japanese, the Jews and the Koreans have a level of nationalistic consciousness that is superior to many other peoples. Self sacrifce is a national trait. In the early years after the Korean war, Korea had young people studying and working overseas only to RETURN and bring their new found knowledge for the improvement of their country. The Japanese also did the same, they bought Swiss watches and Grundig radio in their European visits and promptly reversed-engineered them when they went back home. Not to mention the cars.   And they improved on them.  They have governments that care about their people and have the least corruption.  They can even bring their erring heads of state to jail without getting pardoned.  The Koreans are a bit better, they actually paid Japanese technocrats and engineers to work in their factories during weekends, all expenses paid.    The history of Samsung is the history of a people's struggle to put their country in a position of industry leadership and excellence.  It is also a story of how nationalism can be harnessed to bring a people into prosperity.  It's all about putting the love of your countrymen above anything else.  

If people don't recognize that there are other people worth emulating to correct their weaknesses, then they are bound to suffer their own weaknesses.



« Last Edit: Jan 07, 2010 at 06:25 AM by av_phile1 »

Offline rse

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #112 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 02:56 AM »

Besides, I have the impression we're already taking the cultural exception in GATT.  We have tax rebates on movies.  Congress has a pending legislation on exempting local GP and PG13 movies from the 30% amusement tax and the 12% VAT for movie making equipment.


Is this for real?  Tax rebates based on film classification and not on quality.  It's simply idiotic!

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #113 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 06:31 AM »
The tax rebates are based on quality.  It's the pending exemption on the 30% amusement tax that's based on classification.

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #114 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 11:57 AM »
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What caused the current global crisis is the ABUSE of the liberties afforded by free market economy.  Not because of it.  

By this definition, a non-capitalist or managed economy is bad, a free market economy good? Now that's simplistic.

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China is a example of a socialist capitalist economy that's well managed.
 

And living hell for people who think or say different.

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Unfortunately these PC owning people are the ones you want to watch local films, not those who are happy with Iskul Bukol.
 

Why not? What's wrong with the CD crowd? Is there something wrong with poor people, or people from the provinces? Are they somehow unworthy?

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You want an international market for your films, and that means world class quality.

Y'know how Japanese cinema developed? Ozu did films for the Japanese. Mizoguchi did films for the Japanese. Same with Kurosawa--when offered the chance for an international production, Kurosawa as much as professed regret he couldn't sell said production first to his own people.

The key to a successful cinema is a domestic market, not an international one. Study all the histories, get back to me. In the case of Hong Kong, which did cultivate an international market, it was an international market of diasporic Chinese. Read David Bordwell.

 
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And the people best poised to recognize what world class quality is are rarely your teeming masses

Brocka? O'Hara, who never finished college? What's wrong with these people, I keep wondering?


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Globalization remains on tract.
 

Not only has globalization not remained 'on track,' it's derailed and taken the global economy with it. All those mega corporations are carefully being looked into and regarded with suspicion; more regulations are being put into place. China, that economic powerhouse, is looking inwards. The bloom is off, the boom is over.  Listen to NPR, read The New York Times.

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The benefit is not so much if the remake is good or not.  Of course, better if it s good.  But more on the fact that they get  a wider international audience.


And a lot less respect because they're so bad. Seen any J Horror remakes lately? The trend is dead, and they killed it with garbage.

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If people don't recognize that there are other people worth emulating to correct their weaknesses, then they are bound to suffer their own weaknesses.

Be aware, sure, but also be aware of one's virtues. That's pretty sad if you don't watch the best that our own country has to offer.
« Last Edit: Jan 10, 2010 at 01:52 PM by Noel_Vera »

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #115 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 12:02 PM »
See here what northern wrote about a Filipino film.

We ARE a great people, we should stop the self-hatred, or at least self abuse, and move forward. Realistic steps, sure, recognizing our flaws, sure, but the direction is on, not down.  And appreciate what is our own.

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #116 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 01:24 PM »
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By this definition, a non-capitalist or managed economy is bad, a free market economy good? Now that's simplistic.
  

There's nothing being defined in that statement so don't imagine one.  Also check your logic, Just because one is good, doesn't mean the other is bad.  

But to be blunt, there's nothing better than a capitalist economy.  China is a socialist capitalist economy.  And it's interesting to note that despite all the crises and storms that beset a capitalist economy, the societies behind them have weathered and went on to new heights.  Whereas non-capitalist societies have withered and died, like the soviets who have promptly adopted a capitalist one, and you see it in Cuba.  Not to mention China which easily embraced it.

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And living hell for people who think or say different.

Did that prevent them from creating world class products?
  

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Why not? What's wrong with the CD crowd? Is there something wrong with poor people, or people from the provinces? Are they somehow unworthy?

You tell me.  When they start flocking to see films in local film fests.

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Y'know how Japanese cinema developed? Ozu did films for the Japanese. Mizoguchi did films for the Japanese. Same with Kurosawa--when offered the chance for an international production, Kurosawa as much as professed regret he couldn't sell said production first to his own people.

The key to a successful cinema is a domestic market, not an international one. Study all the histories, get back to me. In the case of Hong Kong, which did cultivate an international market, it was an international market of diasporic Chinese. Read David Bordwell.

You overlooked one fundamental thing.  Japan's domestic market, even as early as the 19th century, is quite mature, sophisticated and demanding because of high literacy rate.  Any country with a mature domestic market with a large middle class demographics like the US, Japan, Korea and UK can easily compete on a Global scale.  What I am saying is for third world countries like the Philippines, the only way to transcend their product mediocrity and compete globally is to think global.  They can't rely on the low standards of catering to an immature domestic market to match global standards, especially one with a very small middle class content.  

Now you go back and read your economics and the roots of globalization. The domestic market WAS critical to a cinema.  Actually it WAS critical to ANY industry. It dictates the level of a country's production quality, be it cars, appliances or movies.  And in a global economy, a country with a highly sophisticated market with a highly evolved product line dictates and leads the level of economic activity for that product line.  That's why you have hollywood leading the pack.   So now with a global economy already thriving, competing globally means your products  have to match the level of sophistication of those in these countries, and transcend the limiting infantile needs of your domestic markets that is pulling you down if you don't.  It's now late in the day for many third world nations to make domestic markets the springboard to global prominence.  You have to leapfrog it by targeting the international audience.

 
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Brocka? O'Hara, who never finished college? What's wrong with these people, I keep wondering?
 
More exceptions than the rule.

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Not really. All those mega corporations are carefully being looked into and regarded with suspicion; more regulations are being put into place. China, that economic powerhouse, is looking inwards. The bloom is off, the boom is over.  Listen to NPR, read The New York Times.
 

Dream on.


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Be aware, sure, but also be aware of one's virtues. That's pretty sad if you don't watch the best that our own country has to offer.

I have no problem with that.  The question really is whether what's good in you is good enough to make you what Korea and Japan is today, or even a Taiwan and Malaysia.    The problem is that 70 years after WWII, it hasn't proven itself good enough.  It's not even about appreciating your own.  A global economy is quite ruthless and unforgiving.  You can appreciate your own all you like but if it can't pass global standards, you're screwed.  
« Last Edit: Jan 08, 2010 at 10:06 AM by av_phile1 »

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #117 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 08:45 PM »
Y'know how Japanese cinema developed? Ozu did films for the Japanese. Mizoguchi did films for the Japanese. Same with Kurosawa--when offered the chance for an international production, Kurosawa as much as professed regret he couldn't sell said production first to his own people.

The key to a successful cinema is a domestic market, not an international one. Study all the histories, get back to me. In the case of Hong Kong, which did cultivate an international market, it was an international market of diasporic Chinese. Read David Bordwell.

Or for that matter India - ever wonder why Bollywood releases almost always crack the UK top ten cinema rankings????

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #118 on: Jan 07, 2010 at 10:36 PM »
Both India and China have a very large market base. In the case of India, even if they have an inordinately large poverty line population, their highly educated middle class is large enough to sustain a thriving high quality domestic cinema that can compete in international markets.  They have a sophisticated middle class population of about 300 million that's even larger than all of UK combined or equal to the entire US population. It is not surprising that India is actually the world's largest film producer with nearly 1000 movies annually that get shown in nearly 100 countries.  Hollywood only produces about 600 annually.

Indians take advance studies in the UK, their former colonizers,  in much the same way Pinoys love to get an education in the US, their former conquerors.  It's actually interesting to see Indian films being highly popular in the UK, not that it has Indian immigrants as the largest ethnic minority community there.
« Last Edit: Jan 08, 2010 at 10:10 AM by av_phile1 »

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Re: Bong Revilla: "Limit Hollywood movies to only 1 a month"
« Reply #119 on: Jan 08, 2010 at 04:29 PM »
parang mahirap nga i-limit ang hollywood films to one a month...what about 2 a month? i'd be ok with that. tapos dapat sa MMFF, dapat yung mga best indie films of the year, palabas din nila. i'm hoping there'll be better films next december with bayani fernando gone.