Topic: Subwoofer Cable

[DIDi10]

good day mga sir, newbie question lang po, i've read all about speaker cables dito sa thread pero i need your advice po mga expert. i owned yammy 465 and tsi300 as my front and wharfedale PC12 as my subwoofer. when im listening to music,im very satisfied sa nilalabas nung sub ko pero pag nanonood ako ng movie parang di ko maramdaman yung gapang nung bass ng sub ko. tanong ko po, does it matter po ba sa cable ng sub ko ko since im using yung ordinary RCA cable lang? or its just my sub itself? what about yung interconnects ko (just using generic brand optical cable)? halos full na yung volume ng sub pero still parang bitin na bitin ako pero sa music, half pa lang ang setting ko nasa-satisfy na ako. thanks po.

[markcrenz]

check mo settings ng lfe out baka naka-set sa -10 dB. o baka hindi kayang i-reproduce ng sub mo yung lower frequencies ng HT.

don't worry too much about those cables. 

[DOM]

for me meron factor yun sub woofer inter connect (minimal lang),
pero mas malaki yun factor ng sub woofer it self (in terms of frequency response),
try mo compare to other brand like polk, psb, velodyne, paradigm, bw, monitor audio, svs, and ETC.
depends yn sa budget  

[DIDi10]

check mo settings ng lfe out baka naka-set sa -10 dB. o baka hindi kayang i-reproduce ng sub mo yung lower frequencies ng HT.

don't worry too much about those cables. 

ok po sir, i'll check yung iba pang settings, i doubt na di magkakaroon ng malaking pagbabago pero hoping na magkaroon pa po ng improvement. anyway ang worry ko lang baka hindi nga talaga kayang mag reproduce ng lower frequency pa. i wonder lang po talaga, kung nakikinig po ako ng music or nanonood ng concert kinda satisfied naman ako, sa movies lang po talaga ako nabibitin sa bass. may kinalaman po kaya yung format ng DVD ko? i never tried pa po yung DTS format, di ko po alam kung may malaking difference po sa sound yung dolby digital compared kung naka-DTS. napansin ko po kasi halos lahat ng DVD naka dolby digital pero hindi lahat DTS.

for me meron factor yun sub woofer inter connect (minimal lang),
pero mas malaki yun factor ng sub woofer it self (in terms of frequency response),
try mo compare to other brand like polk, psb, velodyne, paradigm, bw, monitor audio, svs, and ETC.
depends yn sa budget 

actually sir, yan din po yung isa ko pang naiisip. gustong gusto ko pong subukan ang isa sa brand na yan but still depende nga po sa budget hehe. i just hope na mag-improve pa rin sa setting ko at one day magkaroon din ako ng isa sa mga sub na yan.

mga sir maraming salamat po sa reply nyo. mods sensya na po kung medyo OT na. thanks po uli sa response nyo.

[streetsmart]

Many times, when you don't hear any bass, it is because the AVR has set your main speakers (all speakers other than the sub) as "Large" or "Full-Band." D ako sure ano terminology sa Yamaha.

Make sure that the main speakers are set to "Small" and set the crossover to around 80 Hz. That will send the frequencies below 80 Hz to your sub. The principle is that no matter how big your main speakers are, it is still better to designate them as "Small" and let the subwoofer handle the bass.

Btw, forget about the cables.

[markcrenz]

possible din na when you are playing music it's only in stereo tapos naka-boost yung bass. e sa dolby/dts some receivers defeat the bass/treble controls. kaya mas malakas ang bass pag stereo mode kaysa dolby/dts mode.

try mo rin recommendations ni sir streetsmart. he always gives sensible advice. HT king op da pilipins ba naman eh! sama uli ko sa EB sir mark ha?

[DIDi10]

Many times, when you don't hear any bass, it is because the AVR has set your main speakers (all speakers other than the sub) as "Large" or "Full-Band." D ako sure ano terminology sa Yamaha.

Make sure that the main speakers are set to "Small" and set the crossover to around 80 Hz. That will send the frequencies below 80 Hz to your sub. The principle is that no matter how big your main speakers are, it is still better to designate them as "Small" and let the subwoofer handle the bass.

Btw, forget about the cables.

i think naka-set nga yata sa "Large" yung AVR ko. ok sir try ko po lahat ng suggestions nyo. i'll give you feedback after. maraming salamat po mga sir.

[streetsmart]

i think naka-set nga yata sa "Large" yung AVR ko. ok sir try ko po lahat ng suggestions nyo. i'll give you feedback after. maraming salamat po mga sir.

I think your main speakers can't handle much bass. Try to experiment with different crossovers and see which you prefer. Start with 80 Hz and go up to 100 Hz.

[paolorenzo]

does it matter po ba sa cable ng sub ko ko since im using yung ordinary RCA cable lang?

Yes it matters.  Subwoofer cables are coaxial cables, not ordinary stranded RCA cable.  Make sure to use the right spec cable for your subwoofer.

[markcrenz]

An RCA cable has coaxial wires, unless its those tinny free cables with not enough grounding shield. Any well-constructed RCA cable should cause no loss problems in the subwoofer frequency range at reasonable distances.

Avoid ridiculously high priced cables, it's wasted money. OTOH avoid super cheap cable, because it's mechanically poor.

P5,000 spent on an esoteric cable could spell the difference between a sub and the size/model above it. That is what will give you an appreciable difference, not fancy cables.

There is a whole industry out there attempting to convince people that expensive cables make a significant difference in overall sound. As for their sonic superiority over your ordinary RCA cables... well... personally I think you are just fine, but I wouldn't be surprised if others disagree.

[streetsmart]

Yes it matters.  Subwoofer cables are coaxial cables, not ordinary stranded RCA cable.  Make sure to use the right spec cable for your subwoofer.

Maybe ... but if the OP hears good bass with music but not with movies, the main issue doesn't seem to be the cable.

My understanding is that coax cables will help shield against radio frequency and EMI but I don't think it improves the sound. FWIW, I use 2 x 70' ordinary stranded RCA cables for my subs and the subs sound pretty good.

[markcrenz]

Maybe ... but if the OP hears good bass with music but not with movies, the main issue doesn't seem to be the cable.

My understanding is that coax cables will help shield against radio frequency and EMI but I don't think it improves the sound. FWIW, I use 2 x 70' ordinary stranded RCA cables for my FOUR subs and the subs sound pretty good.

sir mark kulang yata post mo ako na nag-edit. 

[DIDi10]

I think your main speakers can't handle much bass. Try to experiment with different crossovers and see which you prefer. Start with 80 Hz and go up to 100 Hz.

Im sorry sir, what i mean po is my AVR speaker setting is set to "Large" that's why baka po kaya mahina ang output ng bass sa sub pag nanonood ng movies? i'll try to set it na lang to "Small" and i hope magkaroon ng improvement. my AVR crossover is just set to default at 80Hz, i'll try to go up to 100Hz. In regards to the main speakers, satisfied naman po ako sa output ng bass nya.

Just reviewed the manual, it says na when its set to "Small" all low frequency components are output from the subwoofer. I hope this will solve the problem. I'll give you feedback later. Thanks so much mga sir

[paolorenzo]

coax cables have different characteristics as "ordinary" RCA cables.  By ordinary, I refer to those free analog stereo or composite video cables which come with a/v players, etc.

It may be possible that the ordinary cables do not have the necessary bandwidth to carry the sub signals?

Para sa akin, start with the proper sub cable (which are coaxial).  Cheap ones will do, as long as they are 75-ohm.  If the problem persists, then proceed with the tweaking of the sub setup.

[markcrenz]

I have used those free 2m tiny toony wires, they worked for both for sub and digital coax connections. Yes they did work well until they broke. Only then did I replace them with heavier gauge shielded wires and better RCA plugs and found no noticeable sonic improvement.

Sub signals have a very limited bandwidth of about 15 hz to 120 hz, much smaller than the audio bandwidth of 20 hz to 20 khz.

Receivers typically output 2 volts "ordinary" AC audio signal at the sub out. Fed into a sub amp with a 47k input impedance, even at a maximum 4 volts, current is only 85 microamperes (4 volts / 47000 ohms). Also, with 2 volts pushing the sub audio signal, it is less prone to noise compared to the more common 200 millivolt line-out/pre-out signals. That's why even the "free" wires can easily carry the signals.

On the non-technical side, malaki talaga ang pogi points ng mahal na cable. But many don't care about this, tutal nakatago naman cables.

[streetsmart]

I have used those free 2m tiny toony wires, they worked for both for sub and digital coax connections. Yes they did work well until they broke. Only then did I replace them with heavier gauge shielded wires and better RCA plugs and found no noticeable sonic improvement.

Sub signals have a very limited bandwidth of about 15 hz to 120 hz, much smaller than the audio bandwidth of 20 hz to 20 khz.

Receivers typically output 2 volts "ordinary" AC audio signal at the sub out. Fed into a sub amp with a 47k input impedance, even at a maximum 4 volts, current is only 85 microamperes (4 volts / 47000 ohms). Also, with 2 volts pushing the sub audio signal, it is less prone to noise compared to the more common 200 millivolt line-out/pre-out signals. That's why even the "free" wires can easily carry the signals.

On the non-technical side, malaki talaga ang pogi points ng mahal na cable. But many don't care about this, tutal nakatago naman cables.

+1 

Also, tweaking the sub setup at the AVR will take 30 seconds and is absolutely free. Besides, that's really the most common reason why you don't hear any bass from the sub -- because you set your main speakers to "Large" or you have a very low crossover. In those cases, there is hardly any bass signal sent to the sub.

[DIDi10]

try mo rin recommendations ni sir streetsmart. he always gives sensible advice. HT king op da pilipins ba naman eh!

It works sir! Crossover is set to 120hz, all speaker configurations are set to "Small", the result? More deeper bass output. Ang galing nyo sir. Maraming maraming salamat po sa mga response nyo, maraming salamat po sa lahat ng nagreply. Cheers!   

[streetsmart]

It works sir! Crossover is set to 120hz, all speaker configurations are set to "Small", the result? More deeper bass output. Ang galing nyo sir. Maraming maraming salamat po sa mga response nyo, maraming salamat po sa lahat ng nagreply. Cheers!   

Nice to hear. 

Most people like to configure their main speakers as "Large." It gives you a macho feeling.    In reality, as long as you have a sub, you should always set them as "Small."

[DIDi10]

you're correct sir, thanks so much po! thanks pdvd! now im trying to upgrade my cables to a decent one but definitely not expensive   

[wengkapre]

Many times, when you don't hear any bass, it is because the AVR has set your main speakers (all speakers other than the sub) as "Large" or "Full-Band." D ako sure ano terminology sa Yamaha.

Make sure that the main speakers are set to "Small" and set the crossover to around 80 Hz. That will send the frequencies below 80 Hz to your sub. The principle is that no matter how big your main speakers are, it is still better to designate them as "Small" and let the subwoofer handle the bass.

Btw, forget about the cables.

Same issue kami ni TS pero mahina naman bass sakin pag music pero sa movies ang lakas!
Na-overlooked ko 'to, two weeks na kong nag-iisip...salamat na marami Sir streetsmart...try ko 'to agad pag-uwi ko hehehe...will feedback here asap.

[markcrenz]

Same issue kami ni TS pero mahina naman bass sakin pag music pero sa movies ang lakas!
Na-overlooked ko 'to, two weeks na kong nag-iisip...salamat na marami Sir streetsmart...try ko 'to agad pag-uwi ko hehehe...will feedback here asap.

check mo rin sub phase. pag mali there will be suckouts in the crossover region. so if you cross at 80 and it's not in phase with the mains, mahina ang bass response down to 40 hz tapos dumadagundong naman below 40.

[streetsmart]

Same issue kami ni TS pero mahina naman bass sakin pag music pero sa movies ang lakas!
Na-overlooked ko 'to, two weeks na kong nag-iisip...salamat na marami Sir streetsmart...try ko 'to agad pag-uwi ko hehehe...will feedback here asap.

If you don't do any bass management, your experience is the normal thing to expect. That's because the AVR is sending only LFE bass (the ".1") to the subwoofer. Movies have an LFE channel but 2-channel stereo does not - that's why wala kang marinig na bass sa music (siguro di rin kaya ng main speakers mo ang bass frequencies). In any case, even if you have floorstanders for your main speakers, it's still advisable to set a crossover and send bass below the crossover point to the subwoofer kasi mas kaya nya ang bass and luluwag ang trabaho ng amps mo.

If the bass is too strong with movies, that means that you haven't properly set the level of the subs. Nearly all modern AVR's have automatic set-up procedures for setting levels and distance of speakers. Dapat gawin mo yun. Baka rin nasa position ng sub. Might be too near a corner.

[wengkapre]

Thanks sir streetsmart for the advice...actually I'm using Anthony's Proac Clones Floorstander w/c kaya ko sya napili noon Sir dahil sa shootout thread nyo po noon on anthony's speakers vs. other branded speakers.  I also took brader Tirso's advice to set all my speakers freq. to 80hz and LFE to 120hz...& Yes! ang laki ng improvement Sir!  In fact I only use ordinary rca cable + y-connector courtesy of deeco.

[praktikal]

Thanks sir streetsmart for the advice...actually I'm using Anthony's Proac Clones Floorstander w/c kaya ko sya napili noon Sir dahil sa shootout thread nyo po noon on anthony's speakers vs. other branded speakers.  I also took brader Tirso's advice to set all my speakers freq. to 80hz and LFE to 120hz...& Yes! ang laki ng improvement Sir!  In fact I only use ordinary rca cable + y-connector courtesy of deeco.

please compare with 75ohms cable. dati ganyan din ang gamit ko pero nung ginamitan ko ng coax cable, di ko akalaing may pagkakaiba.

ito napansin ko:
- ordinary RCA : may konting ugong sa sub
- coax 75ohms : mas malinis at mataba ang output

pero nung nagtry na ako ng 3 klaseng 75ohms cable, same lang din ang output basta wag lang ordinary RCA lalo na yung payat ang cable. 

[wengkapre]

Actually gusto ko din talaga matry coax cable Sir kaso wala pa stock si paololorenzo...anyway enjoy ko muna system ko

[praktikal]

Actually gusto ko din talaga matry coax cable Sir kaso wala pa stock si paololorenzo...anyway enjoy ko muna system ko

try mo mag diy. kahit yung nabibili lang sa ace na plugs tapos bili ka ng rg6. konting hinang lang ayos na just to compare.

[wengkapre]

try mo mag diy. kahit yung nabibili lang sa ace na plugs tapos bili ka ng rg6. konting hinang lang ayos na just to compare.

noted Sir
makapasyal nga sa SM...

[at_sunset_blvd]

I read an article before cables are just 5% emphasis on the system set-up while the rest of the 95% goes to the equipments used 

[Stagea]

I read an article before cables are just 5% emphasis on the system set-up while the rest of the 95% goes to the equipments used 

I think the biggest factor is how the system is set up. Even with the best gear, an improperly laid out (or poorly matched) room/system will still be dismal.

[pekspert]

I read an article before cables are just 5% emphasis on the system set-up while the rest of the 95% goes to the equipments used 

pretty much accurate... cables may have an effect but its not really night and day.