Topic: Xtreamer vs. Popcorn Hour A200 vs. WDTV Live

[Verbl Kint]

but the dvico tvix m6600 is now selling for as low as $220 in the US which is more or less as much a the A200.

which would you guys choose?

Tvix by a mile.

[Clondalkin]

M6600 is Realtek powered isnt it?  No HD audio capabilities as well.  Not even component video out and it doesnt look like a food keeper or bento box.    Not all Tvix are 6500.   Am I right?

So A200 by 42 kms.

You guys should first see the A200 handle full BD Rips.  And since ayon sa post ni Streetsmart, the difference in legacy and HD audio may not be that much, with a very very good AVR and speaker set (not to mention a TV capable of 1080p 24Hz), yeah A200 by 100 kms.  

[Verbl Kint]

M6600 is Realtek powered isnt it?  No HD audio capabilities as well.  Not even component video out and it doesnt look like a food keeper or bento box.    Not all Tvix are 6500.   Am I right?

So A200 by 42 kms.

You guys should first see the A200 handle full BD Rips.  And since ayon sa post ni Streetsmart, the difference in legacy and HD audio may not be that much, with a very very good AVR and speaker set (not to mention a TV capable of 1080p 24Hz), yeah A200 by 100 kms.  

I have to admit, I didn't know the m6600's specs and issues that well. My limited readings on this NMT suggests it is actually better, albeit marginally, than the 6500, which says a lot from my perspective.

Isn't HD Audio support a firmware matter?

[scifi-fan]

Not for all.

Realtek has confessed that all 1073/1873 chips made in 2009 have silicon faults preventing HD Audio support.

[Clondalkin]

Not for all.
Realtek has confessed that all 1073/1873 chips made in 2009 have silicon faults preventing HD Audio support.

What's the real reason for the A200 not getting this feature right from launch date?

[scifi-fan]

Sigma makes chip.

Syabas (A200 manufacturer) buys chip.

Sigma provides software to enable Syabas to use their chip.

Syabas mades firmware from software provided by Sigma.

HD Audio doesn't work.

Syabas tells Sigma the software (SDK) they got doesn't work.

Sigma fixes it.

Syabas now makes new firmware (in Beta2 now) and it works!

There ya go... in a nutshell.

[Clondalkin]

Syabas didnt use the same SDK to enable HD-audio on the C200?

[scifi-fan]

The C200 has the SAME fault.

HD Audio on the current public firmware only works when using BDMV structures. It doesn't work on MKV+HD Audio or single M2TS files with HD Audio tracks.

The reason is that there are 2 separate "player apps" in the firmware.

Laymans terms, think of the 2 apps like playing movies on a PC.

To play full Bluray discs using a PC you use PowerDVD 9 <--- "disc" player
To play a mkv/m2ts/avi/mp4 movie, you use VLC <--- "file" player

The discplayer works on the old SDK but the fileplayer doesn't work with HD Audio. That's what was inherently broken which required a new SDK from Sigma.

Sigma was informed of this problem back in September '09 and the new SDK to fix it was released only last April '10.

Hence, Syabas needs to port over the firmware to new SDK and that's why it's now in Beta2.

pasensya na kung medyo nosebleed ha ha ha.

[Clondalkin]

HD Audio on the current public firmware only works when using BDMV structures. It doesn't work on MKV+HD Audio or single M2TS files with HD Audio tracks.

Based on what's actually available out there, this is much better than nothing.

Ok, we'll see what happens in the next months or so as regards this feature on the A200.   I personally am not rushing because I dont have the proper AVR anyways...but my previous (sold) Egreat 31B made me feel great indicating "DTS-HD" on the Info even though I couldnt hear a thing... hehehe

[scifi-fan]

True.

The only problem with the "old" Sigma 8635 was that it's limited by bandwidth, It could only allow movies up to 42Mb/sec bitrates without stutter.

BD50 structures (aka commercial BD) hits from 40~60Mb/sec bitrates for video streams.

It was a great chip during it's day pero it's passed it prime. If you play a straight uncompressed m2ts taken from a BDMV structure and play it on a 8635 based player, it WILL stutter which is what people noticed when AnyDVD succeeded to break DRM for Bluray and people started backing up their BD collections.

You also have to prepare because at the moment only DTSHD tracks come with Core DTS audio. Dolby unfortunately doesn't use this same method so if you have a MKV+Dolby TrueHD track, you need to ADD an additional AC3 track for playback on AVRs/TVs without TrueHD.

[Clondalkin]

The only problem with the "old" Sigma 8635 was that it's limited by bandwidth, It could only allow movies up to 42Mb/sec bitrates without stutter.

BD50 structures (aka commercial BD) hits from 40~60Mb/sec bitrates for video streams.

It was a great chip during it's day pero it's passed it prime. If you play a straight uncompressed m2ts taken from a BDMV structure and play it on a 8635 based player, it WILL stutter which is what people noticed when AnyDVD succeeded to break DRM for Bluray and people started backing up their BD collections.

You also have to prepare because at the moment only DTSHD tracks come with Core DTS audio. Dolby unfortunately doesn't use this same method so if you have a MKV+Dolby TrueHD track, you need to ADD an additional AC3 track for playback on AVRs/TVs without TrueHD.

Well I cannot comment about those guys backing up their own BD collections but in my adventures, the BDMV structures are even smoother than 1080p MKVs on the Egreat 31B.  It just couldnt discriminate among the multiple playlist of seamless branching BD rips and cant play BD ISO (hence I decided to sell the 31B ).  BDMV didnt stutter on my 31B - and Im still mystified by it.

The A200 already outputs Dolby Digital from Dolby TrueHD (which I feel is awesome considering the Mede8er is totally muted on that audiostream).  That's enough for me..hahaha

[scifi-fan]

Someone in the beta team already reported the branching issues of using Simple BD. It should be addressed by Syabas.

That's why when I was invited I jumped at the chance because in my own way I feel I'm contributing to the feedback mechanism so that succeeding firmware as far as the PCH is concerned become solid. Mas protektado ang ginastos ko

As for the tupperware case of the A200, I already solved that by installing it in a metal enclosure. Now it looks "pro" and can sit proudly next to my other home theater gear.

IMHO the best IS the C200 and Dune 3.0. If I could buy a Dune locally I probably would have gotten one.

Both companies have the best "middleware" developers bar none.

P.S.

The A200 already outputs Dolby Digital from Dolby TrueHD

Not possible in MKV. Only M2TS/BDMV. MKV requires a separate AC3 track because not all Bluray sources use core AC3 in their TrueHD implementations during authoring.

Also I doubt the Egreat can play a BDMV/M2TS coming from a NAS/PC. The same 42Mb/s limit is shared with ethernet so if you store a uncompressed m2ts on a PC and stream it to an 8635, it will stutter.

Pasensya na po again sa nosebleed. Medyo technical kasi ako so mahilig mag kutkot.

[Clondalkin]

The A200 is fugliest on the feel because its too bloody light and soft - good thing the only time I touched the device was during cable connection.  The look itself is not much of a deal-breaker personally because (1) its black, low and barely visible in the HT rack and (2) the only time I actually stare at it is during power on/off to verify the color of the indicating light.

Well its performance reallly makes up for its case design.

No interest on the C200.  I admit its better but the A200, except for HD audio support, can do everything I need.   Besides, 20K is too close to the price of a decent PC already.  But that's just my personal priority I guess.

[Clondalkin]

Not possible in MKV. Only M2TS/BDMV. MKV requires a separate AC3 track because not all Bluray sources use core AC3 in their TrueHD implementations during authoring.

Also I doubt the Egreat can play a BDMV/M2TS coming from a NAS/PC. The same 42Mb/s limit is shared with ethernet so if you store a uncompressed m2ts on a PC and stream it to an 8635, it will stutter.

You're making it cool yet complicated.   Follow the path of the hypotenuse instead of the angles. Simplify the signal route...hehehe

Instead of MKV+HD Audio, BD25 is the better option.  Smoother playback, cleaner image quality, better looking subs.

[Beefy]

Also I doubt the Egreat can play a BDMV/M2TS coming from a NAS/PC. The same 42Mb/s limit is shared with ethernet so if you store a uncompressed m2ts on a PC and stream it to an 8635, it will stutter.

To clear this issue, I have no problems streaming m2ts from bdmv structure coming from a NAS using an Egreat via NFS. No stuttering. PC is even better since http connection is faster than NFS.

[Beefy]

Instead of MKV+HD Audio, BD25 is the better option.  Smoother playback, cleaner image quality, better looking subs.

I'm having problems using time seek on Eureka's BD25s. Is it working for you?

[Clondalkin]

I'm having problems using time seek on Eureka's BD25s. Is it working for you?

No problem at all with Time Seek and Chapter selection.  Rabomil's simply incredible.  Any specific Eureka BD ISO title? 

[CMac]

If you want the best, TVIX is the best but most expensive ...this probably is the real future-proof NMT ... the promised Jukebox, BD full menu playback, and HD Audio Passthrough (TrueHD, DTS-MA, Dolby Digital Plus) all works on TVIX M6500 ...you may refer to the TVIX M6500 topic on this forum ... my unit is almost 2 years, but a lot of its features have not been made available to the newer NMTs ...only downside is the slow boot time compared to the newer NMTs, but I won't exchange it for 2 brand new A200

with your knowledge on tvix's, do you think the n1 cafe has the same features as the 6500 and 6600 but at a lower price? for only $125 in amazon, this looks way cooler than the PCH A200.

[raptor]

with your knowledge on tvix's, do you think the n1 cafe has the same features as the 6500 and 6600 but at a lower price? for only $125 in amazon, this looks way cooler than the PCH A200.

this is similar to the M6600, reason for the lower price is that this is not capable of fitting internal drives

[raptor]

True.

The only problem with the "old" Sigma 8635 was that it's limited by bandwidth, It could only allow movies up to 42Mb/sec bitrates without stutter.

BD50 structures (aka commercial BD) hits from 40~60Mb/sec bitrates for video streams.

It was a great chip during it's day pero it's passed it prime. If you play a straight uncompressed m2ts taken from a BDMV structure and play it on a 8635 based player, it WILL stutter which is what people noticed when AnyDVD succeeded to break DRM for Bluray and people started backing up their BD collections.

You also have to prepare because at the moment only DTSHD tracks come with Core DTS audio. Dolby unfortunately doesn't use this same method so if you have a MKV+Dolby TrueHD track, you need to ADD an additional AC3 track for playback on AVRs/TVs without TrueHD.

All the BDMV collections I have play smoothly on my M6500, which I believe is an 8635 based player ... that includes the menus with matching HD audio ... full BD rips are the best in sound and picture quality ... i guess it has a lot to do with the firmware that comes with the TVIX players ....this is also what separates the new M6600 model from the rest of the other Realtek based players if you read reviews outside of pdvd

[scifi-fan]

That's good you guys are happy. Yan ang important.

I use different files now to accurately test for bitrate. It's a lot more accurate than using rips.

Fact of the matter is hindi na kaya ng 8635 yung ibang test files I use now.

As for the Dvico 6500. There's no firmware updates for it. Here's a snippet from the discussion sa mpc why;

"The developer working on the 6500 and Sigma SDK left the company. Now they have their developer who works on the Realtek SDK and current models looking into it."

[raptor]

"The developer working on the 6500 and Sigma SDK left the company. Now they have their developer who works on the Realtek SDK and current models looking into it."

The latest beta firmware update for the TVIX N1 Cafe model allows for "raw" HD audio passthrough ... not sure though if raw includes TrueHD and DTS-MA

[scifi-fan]

6600+ N1 uses Realtek chip that will passthrough HD Audio similar to the Xtreamer Pro and the Xtreamer Sidewinder.

[CMac]

i thought the n1 was sigma based like the pch. kakawalang tiwala kase realtek after they published features that did not come into fruition with the first xtreamer. thanks raptor.

[scifi-fan]

Dvico shifted from Sigma to Realtek upon introduction of the N1 and the 6600.

They too were caught in the HD Audio fiasco when Realtek didn't have the licensing agreement in place with DTS and Dolby by the time the chips went to production so to avoid legal issues, the chips were hamstrung so that it wouldn't work.

Later on when it was found out, Realtek released proper versions of the 1073 now called 1073+. Only the models with the "+" have the proper silicon and license to process HD Audio streams.

Some media player companies were forthcoming about the problem and some weren't.

It's those who aren't forthcoming that are the problem because you don't know which product has the proper chip.

[raptor]

Dvico shifted from Sigma to Realtek upon introduction of the N1 and the 6600.

They too were caught in the HD Audio fiasco when Realtek didn't have the licensing agreement in place with DTS and Dolby by the time the chips went to production so to avoid legal issues, the chips were hamstrung so that it wouldn't work.

Later on when it was found out, Realtek released proper versions of the 1073 now called 1073+. Only the models with the "+" have the proper silicon and license to process HD Audio streams.

Some media player companies were forthcoming about the problem and some weren't.

It's those who aren't forthcoming that are the problem because you don't know which product has the proper chip.

Nice info sir ...this is probably the reason why the M6600 was replaced by M6600 A/N Plus model

[scifi-fan]

Nice info sir ...this is probably the reason why the M6600 was replaced by M6600 A/N Plus model

Correct

If you guys wanna read more about it;

Realtek 1073DD+ / 1283DD+ Explained

Read carefully the last paragraph regarding "SDK" and pretty much yan ang hinihintay ng Realtek manufacturers in the same way Sigma manufacturers had to wait also. Sigma's are working long before but without the effing software pretty much walang magawa hanggang matapos sila.

Sigma took 6 effing months for the HD Audio SDK. Let's hope Realtek steps up because we really need competition in this space to keep them all honest and hopefully get better prices due to volume sales.

[Beefy]

No problem at all with Time Seek and Chapter selection.  Rabomil's simply incredible.  Any specific Eureka BD ISO title? 

I only got From Paris with love, Alice in wonderland and Avatar. After encountering the problem, I went back to getting full bluray rips

[Beefy]

That's good you guys are happy. Yan ang important.

I use different files now to accurately test for bitrate. It's a lot more accurate than using rips.

Fact of the matter is hindi na kaya ng 8635 yung ibang test files I use now.

Experienced this too on my egreat 31b. I use the bird60.mkv and the bird90.mkv which stutters even on the internal drive. PCH and xtreamer plays these without problems.

To those buying NMTs, I suggest getting something that has an internal drive. USB 2.0 just won't handle high bit rate files. In my experience, usb connection can only play up to 35-40mbps bitrates

[scifi-fan]

Experienced this too on my egreat 31b. I use the bird60.mkv and the bird90.mkv which stutters even on the internal drive. PCH and xtreamer plays these without problems.

To those buying NMTs, I suggest getting something that has an internal drive. USB 2.0 just won't handle high bit rate files. In my experience, usb connection can only play up to 35-40mbps bitrates

Thanks