Topic: Xtreamer vs. Popcorn Hour A200 vs. WDTV Live

[Clondalkin]

I only got From Paris with love, Alice in wonderland and Avatar. After encountering the problem, I went back to getting full bluray rips

No problem on those titles in terms of Time Seek. I have the complete Eureka BD ISO releases. 

However, there are some Eureka BD ISOs where if you press the "Start Movie" icon on the Main Menu, it seems to loop back.  Checking on the info, the A200 seems to be playing certain short (total duration would be a few seconds to a minute or so as indicated in the Info) streams contained within the BD ISO that do not contain any image.  By pressing the "Start Movie" repeatedly, the A200 seems to move forward through each of those "blank" streams, until you finally get to the main movie stream.  Once there, Time Seek and Chapter selection all work well.  From Paris With Love played that way, but Alice and Avatar played "straight" to the main movie.

[Clondalkin]

Experienced this too on my egreat 31b. I use the bird60.mkv and the bird90.mkv which stutters even on the internal drive. PCH and xtreamer plays these without problems.

Yes, the 31B has issues with MKV especially the huges ones but in terms of playback of BDMV structures, the only problem it has is the inability to recognize the playlist of seamless branching BD rips thus you end up starting a movie from the 20th minute for instance...I think this is a common problem in the first place and the A200 is the only player Ive actually tried that recognized the playlists correctly (with menu giving the option to choose the version you want to watch).  But again, I cannot comment about those guys ripping their own BDs.

To those buying NMTs, I suggest getting something that has an internal drive. USB 2.0 just won't handle high bit rate files. In my experience, usb connection can only play up to 35-40mbps bitrates

I always connect HDDs on dock through USB2.0 or ESATA and I havent noticed any bit rate issues with the A200 or the Mede8er yet.   I havent tried those bird stuff though - no need I think.  Anyways no problem.

[Trevor]

Glad to learn these things here 

[Verbl Kint]

To those buying NMTs, I suggest getting something that has an internal drive. USB 2.0 just won't handle high bit rate files. In my experience, usb connection can only play up to 35-40mbps bitrates

USB 2.0 can reach 30 MBps, which is roughly 240 Mbps, more than enough for "high-bitrate" files.

[scifi-fan]

USB 2.0 can reach 30 MBps, which is roughly 240 Mbps, more than enough for "high-bitrate" files.

Yes theoretically it's possible, but iba ang real world results. I did have this problem before but no more.

What I've done to make sure USB attached drives perform nearly as well as internal SATA mounted drives is to make sure the drives are defragmented. As long as this is done, I've been able to avoid stutter on high bitrate mkv/bdmv/bd iso.

I do a defrag as soon as I hit 75% of the drive's total capacity.

[Beefy]

USB 2.0 can reach 30 MBps, which is roughly 240 Mbps, more than enough for "high-bitrate" files.

I don't consider 30MB/s or roughly 240 Mbps mkv file "high bit rate". Try around 50-60MB/s or 420Mbps.

Have you tried measuring the read rate of usb 2.0? Yes it can reach 30MB/s but I'd like to see you get 40MB-50MB/s

Claimed speed is different from the actual throughput(Real world)

[Verbl Kint]

Yes theoretically it's possible, but iba ang real world results. I did have this problem before but no more.

The numbers I've posted are actual throughput speeds. USB 2.0 can theoretically go as fast as 400 Mbps or around 50 MBps. 

I don't consider 30MB/s or roughly 240 Mbps mkv file "high bit rate". Try around 50-60MB/s or 420Mbps.

I have to admit that I do not have any 50-60 MB/s mkv files, I have blu-rays though.  Wikipedia has this to say about blu-ray:

BD Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s, a maximum AV bitrate of 48 Mbit/s (for both audio and video data), and a maximum video bit rate of 40 Mbit/s.

Should be enough for USB 2.0, right? 

Have you tried measuring the read rate of usb 2.0? Yes it can reach 30MB/s but I'd like to see you get 40MB-50MB/s

I have and I've never reached 40 MB/s, which is why I posted 30 MB/s. I actually got lower speeds on a Mac, btw, but that's another story.

Claimed speed is different from the actual throughput(Real world)

I understand that (used to be a SysOp), which is why I posted actual throughput speeds.

[Beefy]

The numbers I've posted are actual throughput speeds. USB 2.0 can theoretically go as fast as 400 Mbps or around 50 MBps.  

theoretically? Well wikipedia stated that actual throughput of usb 2.0 is 2/3 of the claimed 54MB/s which equates to 35MB/s. My personal best is continuous 33MB/s on a windows system.

I have to admit that I do not have any 50-60 MB/s mkv files, I have blu-rays though.  Wikipedia has this to say about blu-ray:

BD Video movies have a maximum data transfer rate of 54 Mbit/s, a maximum AV bitrate of 48 Mbit/s (for both audio and video data), and a maximum video bit rate of 40 Mbit/s.

Should be enough for USB 2.0, right?  

from my experience, it is easier to stream m2ts files than mkv. I think high bitrate mkvs are really or more compressed hence the need for a more powerful chip to "decode".

I'd don't mind getting a media player without an internal drive as long as it has esata or usb 3.0 connection.

I have and I've never reached 40 MB/s, which is why I posted 30 MB/s. I actually got lower speeds on a Mac, btw, but that's another story.

2 posts above is the reason for asking 40MB/s

[Verbl Kint]

theoretically? Well wikipedia stated that actual throughput of usb 2.0 is 2/3 of the claimed 54MB/s which equates to 35MB/s. My personal best is continuous 33MB/s on a windows system.

My "personal best" is 30 MB/s, which I measured myself in 2008 and which is what I posted in reply #63. I guess we do somewhat agree on "real world" speeds of USB 2.0 (30 MB/s, or 240 Mbps).

My apologies if my estimate of the theoretical throughput speeds is off by 4 MB/s.

from my experience, it is easier to stream m2ts files than mkv. I think high bitrate mkvs are really or more compressed hence the need for a more powerful chip to "decode".

2 posts above is the reason for asking 40MB/s

So I take it you have mkv files with a higher bitrate than blu-ray?

[scifi-fan]

Yup we have mkv/m2ts higher than bluray for testing;

Download this torrent link;
DVD5 Test Disc

In it there are mkv/m2ts with varying bitrates from 20 to 90 Mb/sec.

I use it to test streaming capability as well as checking how fast the CPU is on your media player to see what "chokes" it

Testing USB speeds on Media players... it's around 15~20MB/s only. That's because media player CPUs are slow compared to PCs. Using a PC with Turbo copy, fastest sustained USB read/write speed ko is around 25MB/s

[HD_MOVIES]

Wow - thats a huge file movie..

@ 50MB/s - a 90min movie (5400 seconds) would have a size of 270,000MB or 270GB file? i may have computed it wrong.. hehe

[scifi-fan]

Wow - thats a huge file movie..

@ 50MB/s - a 90min movie (5400 seconds) would have a size of 270,000MB or 270GB file? i may have computed it wrong.. hehe

The samples are very short (less than 30secs) but it's enough to demonstrate the dramatic difference what old media player powered by a slower chip vs newer models with faster processors can handle.

[Beefy]

My "personal best" is 30 MB/s, which I measured myself in 2008 and which is what I posted in reply #63. I guess we do somewhat agree on "real world" speeds of USB 2.0 (30 MB/s, or 240 Mbps).

My apologies if my estimate of the theoretical throughput speeds is off by 4 MB/s.

So I take it you have mkv files with a higher bitrate than blu-ray?

Yup. I also use the files that sci-fi posted. Also, the latest film I viewed that choked on the egreat is the movie Unthinkable 2010 1080p CHD. It peaked at around 54-58MB/s for a few seconds.

[scifi-fan]

That's why for scientific purposes, I make my own rips from BDMVs.

Iba ibang encoders, kanya kanyang style. Personally I prefer uncompressed MKV if possible para "untouched" yung bitrate coming from original. No quality loss, just conversion of video track from commercial H264/VC-1 to x264 which is public domain codec.

It's actually fascinating learning all about this media stuff and how it all works.

[Verbl Kint]

Yup we have mkv/m2ts higher than bluray for testing;

Download this torrent link;
DVD5 Test Disc

In it there are mkv/m2ts with varying bitrates from 20 to 90 Mb/sec.

I use it to test streaming capability as well as checking how fast the CPU is on your media player to see what "chokes" it

Thanks for the link.  I've always been looking for something like this.

Testing USB speeds on Media players... it's around 15~20MB/s only. That's because media player CPUs are slow compared to PCs. Using a PC with Turbo copy, fastest sustained USB read/write speed ko is around 25MB/s

In any case, the 15 MB/s (or 90 Mbps) actual throughput of USB 2.0 on NMT's should be enough for regular high-bitrate mkv's and BD rips, right?

[HD_MOVIES]

Yup. I also use the files that sci-fi posted. Also, the latest film I viewed that choked on the egreat is the movie Unthinkable 2010 1080p CHD. It peaked at around 54-58MB/s for a few seconds.

with that, i guess it will stutter if thru usb2.0.. can the a200 chip handle that bitrate? on paper, what is the max bitrate can the new sigma chip able to decode?

[Verbl Kint]

Yup. I also use the files that sci-fi posted. Also, the latest film I viewed that choked on the egreat is the movie Unthinkable 2010 1080p CHD. It peaked at around 54-58MB/s for a few seconds.

I think you mean 54-58 Mbits/s. 

[scifi-fan]

with that, i guess it will stutter if thru usb2.0.. can the a200 chip handle that bitrate? on paper, what is the max bitrate can the new sigma chip able to decode?

Theoretically if Syabas claims it can do Real3D in the future, then that's 2x50Mb/s streams.

But again, don't worry about it. Ignorance is bliss. If your current player handles everything you throw at it then it's the best player out there.

It's when it stops handling what you want that it's time to get a better one.

Currently the highest bitrates one can find on commercial BD is no more than 60Mb/s but that's not sustained. There are peaks and valleys to every movie so meron ways media players cope using buffering for those short bursts.

[scifi-fan]

Thanks for the link.  I've always been looking for something like this.

In any case, the 15 MB/s (or 90 Mbps) actual throughput of USB 2.0 on NMT's should be enough for regular high-bitrate mkv's and BD rips, right?

You're most welcome.

When I use those files, bagsak yung WIRELESS streaming ko. I can't stream even higher than 24Mb/s that's why I gave up on the wireless streaming

USB 2.0 is ok naman pero if I had to guarantee it... I can't. Just pray that 99% of the time it's a-ok.

[Beefy]

I think you mean 54-58 Mbits/s. 

Nope I think I meant GB 

with that, i guess it will stutter if thru usb2.0.. can the a200 chip handle that bitrate? on paper, what is the max bitrate can the new sigma chip able to decode?

Yes it will stutter if thru usb 2.0 but it will play if installed on the internal drive. I was also able to play it via ethernet(network)

[Beefy]

You're most welcome.

When I use those files, bagsak yung WIRELESS streaming ko. I can't stream even higher than 24Mb/s that's why I gave up on the wireless streaming

USB 2.0 is ok naman pero if I had to guarantee it... I can't. Just pray that 99% of the time it's a-ok.

Maybe it's the wireless router that you are using? check small network builders. Different Wireless N routers have different throughput upstream and downstream. I have no problems with a belkin N+

[Verbl Kint]

You're most welcome.

When I use those files, bagsak yung WIRELESS streaming ko. I can't stream even higher than 24Mb/s that's why I gave up on the wireless streaming

I'll try it on my 300 Mbps wireless setup. I get, at most, around 21 Mbps on it (w/in 5 feet unobstructed), which means the video files on this test disc will probably make it croak.

Nope I think I meant GB  

Good for you, then.  

[scifi-fan]

Maybe it's the wireless router that you are using? check small network builders. Different Wireless N routers have different throughput upstream and downstream. I have no problems with a belkin N+

I think its because of the encryption (WPA2) putting undue lag. Anyway, I'm more than happy with the wired setup. Less headaches pa.

I'll get back to wifi sometime later pag naayos na firmware ng PCH 200 series to a point na happing-happy na me

[Beefy]

... happing-happy na me

Jejemon? hehe j/k  

Anyway, after using a usb dongle(CDR King) on the front usb input of the PCh, the thing became so hot that i felt the plastic case of both the dongle and PCH will melt.

[Trevor]

Guys quick question, total noob here. How do you view the movie cover? Is there a way to make the cover appear while going thru the movie titles in the library?

Edit: hmm.. there's a preview button i havent pressed yet 

[lanzor]

and the winner is..

[Trevor]

Already got the Xtreamer Sidewinder 

[kate59588]

I use wdtv live. rip my blu ray movie to m2ts, wonderful.
the HDTV LIVE unit doesn't support the DDTRUEHD audio

http://www.pavtube.com/guide/get-blu-ray-mkv-with-5.1-sound.html

[joelsoldao]

information overload