Topic: Hd sound formats

[barrister]

also, when I press the select button on my ps3 (playing a blu-ray movie) i see the following info displayed and would simply like to know what they mean:

Dolby Digital - Multi-Channel 48KHZ 640KBPS AVC 27.7 MBPS

48kHz - Audio sampling rate (number of samples per second taken from a signal), 48,000Hz per second.  48kHz is the standard sampling rate for sound on video; 44.1kHz is the standard sampling rate for audio CDs.

640 kbps - Audio bitrate (number of bits conveyed or processed per second), 640,000 bits per second.  Dolby Digital lossy has a maximum bitrate of 640kbps.  Dolby TrueHD has a maximum bitrate of 18.64 Mbps.

AVC - The video codec used (AVC means "Advanced Video Coding").  

27.7 Mbps - Video bitrate, 27,000,000 bits per second.

[comitatus]

@barrister

wow! now i know what they mean many many thanks! ikaw sir, how do you find lossy dd vs lossless dd?

[barrister]

So far, parang pareho lang ang tunog, e ... 

[Clondalkin]

So far, parang pareho lang ang tunog, e ... 

My old AX1 vs a new 1067?  What's your guess? 

[barrister]

Amp of old AX1 is way better than the amp of the new 1067, I'm sure.

Pero kahit AX1, baka pareho lang sa akin ang lossy and lossless.  Maybe a very slight improvement for lossless, if I concentrate hard enough ...      

Dolby Digital on 35mm film only uses 320kbps.  Talo pa ng DVD, up to 448kbps Dolby lossy.  Lalong talo ng Blu-ray, up to 640kbps Dolby lossy.  

Maganda na siguro ang 640kbps lossy, ewan ko ba naman kung bakit bilib na bilib sila sa lossless ...  

[Carlo777]

So far, parang pareho lang ang tunog, e ...  

I'm very happy that I'm not the only one who can't tell the darn difference. In itself, the lossy Dolby Digital, sounds very good already. But what do I know

[streetsmart]

I'm very happy that I'm not the only one who can't tell the darn difference. In itself, the lossy Dolby Digital, sounds very good already. But what do I know

You're definitely not alone. Most people, in a blind test, can't tell the difference between high-def and normal audio.

In Sep 2008, we held a blind test, attended by more than 20 Pinoydvd members. There was a video test and an audio test. In the audio test, we played a lossless 2-minute clip of a BD and then played the legacy lossy clip. The participants had to guess which clip was lossless. The overall result was that less than half could guess which was the lossless clip. Here's the link. Look at Reply #102 onwards.

http://www.pinoydvd.com/index.php/topic,81472.90.html

[barrister]

Buti na lang wala ako doon.  Baka na-golden egg din ako ... 

[Carlo777]

@streetsmart

Heard so much about you regarding audio equipments, you're a legend around here when it comes to that. Try as I may, I'm still getting the hang out of it. There are time I still prefer the regular TV speakers simply because I'm a lazy penguin who wants to use only 1 remote.

Also know that you host a number of sound demonstrations and my wife (comitatus) would really love to hear them live.

Nice of you to post a reply. Much appreciated. Thanks!

[Stagea]

also, when I press the select button on my ps3 (playing a blu-ray movie) i see the following info displayed and would simply like to know what they mean:

Dolby Digital - Multi-Channel 48KHZ 640KBPS AVC 27.7 MBPS

Afaik, this is what it means:
Dolby Digital audio format
48kHz audio sampling rate
640kbps audio bitrate
AVC video compression format (Advanced Video Coding)
27.7 Mbps combined bitrate

[vgsison]

I enjoyed reading all the ideas here. Let me share mine.

1. As regards which sounds better DTS or HD sounds (TruHd or DTSMaster) my humble ears prefer the latter. Why? My ears appreciate the "airy" ambiance DTS Master brings out in my HT. As I compare the DTS sound of a DVD viz. my BD of Hitman David Foster, HD Master format has the edge in my ear because it has more forcefulness and that thicker sound. One reason I prefer BD over Mkv files is that currently my BD player can decode HT sounds while my xtreamer player cannot.

2. As regards picture quality between BD and Mkv, i do not notice any difference in this aspect anymore. For my eyes, same quality.

That's just me and my wife who always participates with me in my experiments. That's why I love her so much for we share the same hobby. That makes upgrading easier given that she holds the purse.

Bottomline, our senses are really different in one way or the other. No justification in sounds or picture quality can ever contest what you and me hears or sees.

Thank you for reading.

[barrister]

1. As regards which sounds better DTS or HD sounds (TruHd or DTSMaster) my humble ears prefer the latter. Why? My ears appreciate the "airy" ambiance DTS Master brings out in my HT. As I compare the DTS sound of a DVD viz. my BD of Hitman David Foster, HD Master format has the edge in my ear because it has more forcefulness and that thicker sound.

If you like the DTS-HD MA sound on Hitman: David Foster and Friends, it means that you like the audio quality on that disc.  However, that's not sufficient basis to show that DTS-HD MA sounds better than Dolby TrueHD.

There must first be a side-by-side comparison between the DTS-HD MA track and the Dolby TrueHD track of the same title before a listener can conclude that one codec did a better job of compressing and decompressing the same master audio.  

In the case of the Hitman BD, the HD audio is DTS-HD MA, but it does not have a Dolby TrueHD track.  If it's not possible to compare the two formats on the Hitman BD, how did you know that DTS-HD MA is better, when you're using the audio on the Hitman BD as basis?

Bottomline, our senses are really different in one way or the other. No justification in sounds or picture quality can ever contest what you and me hears or sees.

I agree with you there  .

[Clondalkin]

Calling on Tsip Gaol!

I was watching Sting's concert in Berlin last night and noticed that both LPCM and DTS-HD are available.  How do the sounds compare on your Denon 4310?  Thanks!

On my AX1, it was simply mas malakas or mas mahina   - but the general sound quality was pleasant to the ears.

Sorry sa abala Bro but I really thought about this thread when I saw both LPCM and DTS-HD together.  Thanks!

[ninjababez®]

bookmarking, will do some backreading later

[comitatus]

@vgsison

happy your wife is supportive...i've also been very supportive of my husband, and ryt now i'm trying to egg him to go one step above the visual.

next up i'll get him to appreciate anime (dragon ball kai or z hehehe)

@barrister

the audio system of carlo777 sa TN sayang naman so pinauwi ko na din. sa akin lalang daw anyway, since medyo luma na yung avr. he tells me to connect my blu-ray via opticals, maybe, the sound quality of optical over hdmi is not too far apart naman...is it?

@anyone

I'm the one pala who installs the audio systems in the house and about the rear or surround speakers...

do I place them exactly sa side ng listener or medyo sa rear side?

thanks.

[Clondalkin]

Hi Yuriko,

That's a pretty mean set of AVR and speakers you're bringing in from TN.  That should sound really great on optical cable.  Hanap ka nalang nung DTS-HD/Dolby TrueHD na neon light and place it somewhere near the top of the AVR.  Hehehe baduy ba?  Or you can always offer such nice non-HD compliant yet high-class AVR model here in PDVD at a good price, you know.  Hehehe.

I have installed the rear/surround speakers both at the front and at my side because I don't have a wall at the back.   But if you look at typical HT set-up diagrams, they are shown at the back of the sitting position.  

My wife and I balance each other out.   We share the same CC for mutual auditing purpose and everytime I ask her the logic for having more bags than regular daily meals, she replies by asking me what level of sound difference I expect if I buy a new AVR.   But we lovingly agree on what excellent picture quality looks like.  

[comitatus]

@clondalkin

hahaha we lovingly agree on what's good sa mga mata namin also...we have yet to agree on what sounds good and what movie or movies to watch together as a couple.

i also want to put a neon dts or dolby logo...i like i like i like talaga...but eto sabi ni carlo "parang cabaret ang dating" if i do...sabi ko naman, mas maganda yan...para may ibang purpose din...and this was his answer...

 

nga pala i have the pianist blu-ray and it has dts-hd and dd 5.1 sound formats. i know it's not a fair comparison but a sneaky listen may give me an idea of their difference...i hope.

[barrister]

@barrister

the audio system of carlo777 sa TN sayang naman so pinauwi ko na din. sa akin lalang daw anyway, since medyo luma na yung avr. he tells me to connect my blu-ray via opticals, maybe, the sound quality of optical over hdmi is not too far apart naman...is it?

Well, the stuff you're bringing in are all high-end gear.  Kahit luma yung receiver, features lang ang luma, but the amplification is still good.

Sound quality of optical?  Pareho lang yon ....  but let me qualify first para malinaw:

Optical connections have limited bandwidth, so they can't carry BD lossless sound or uncompressed PCM 5.1.  To do that, you need the higher capacity of HDMI.

Now, if you're comparing lossy sound on optical vs. lossy sound on HDMI, they should be the same because both connections should be transmitting exactly the same digital signal.  

@anyone

I'm the one pala who installs the audio systems in the house and about the rear or surround speakers...

do I place them exactly sa side ng listener or medyo sa rear side?

Medyo sa rear and slightly above the listener.  

If placed on the sides exactly in line with the listener, you won't reproduce back sounds too well.  Placed on the sides but slightly behind the listener, you get both side and back sounds with a little help from wall reflections.

If height is the same as the listening position, you won't reproduce high sounds too well.  Place it slightly higher, then listen to that helicopter fly above your head ...  

Speaker placement is a bit tricky.  Start with Dolby's recommendations, figure out the rationale behind those recommendations, then figure out your own placements based on personal preference:

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/setup/speaker-setup-guide/index.html

nga pala i have the pianist blu-ray and it has dts-hd and dd 5.1 sound formats. i know it's not a fair comparison but a sneaky listen may give me an idea of their difference...i hope.

While comparing, make sure the soundtracks are level-matched (equal volume levels).  Otherwise, the louder soundtrack will seem better.

[firestorm]

If you like the DTS-HD MA sound on Hitman: David Foster and Friends, it means that you like the audio quality on that disc.  However, that's not sufficient basis to show that DTS-HD MA sounds better than Dolby TrueHD.

There must first be a side-by-side comparison between the DTS-HD MA track and the Dolby TrueHD track of the same title before a listener can conclude that one codec did a better job of compressing and decompressing the same master audio.  

In the case of the Hitman BD, the HD audio is DTS-HD MA, but it does not have a Dolby TrueHD track.  If it's not possible to compare the two formats on the Hitman BD, how did you know that DTS-HD MA is better, when you're using the audio on the Hitman BD as basis?



I agree with you there  .

Hi, I think vgsison's comment meant he preferred the DTS-MA audio track of the Bluray against the DTS lossy audio of David Foster Hitman and not DTS-MA tracks were better than Dolby TrueHD tracks.

Here are some of my observations and comments. I've also tried a few DTS-MA and DolbyTrueHD and like you I can't tell the difference from lossy tracks. I guess it also has to do with my old /entry level speakers.

I've read that both DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD is identical to the bigger LPCM if encoded properly. I think whether one movie's audio is better than the other is not really dependent on DTS-MA and Dolby True HD but on the sound engineer who mixes that particular movie.

And the only reason we have more DTS-MA tracks for Bluray titles than Dolby TrueHD track is pure marketing on the studio's part. It's rare to see a title with both DTS-MA and DolbyTrueHD.

The only advantage for DTS-MA is that already includes the core DTS track. While for DolbyTrueHD it will need to have another Dolby Digital 640kpbs track encoded on the disc. This will only be important if you have older AVR that doesn't support the HD audio formats.

Thanks.

[Clondalkin]

The only advantage for DTS-MA is that already includes the core DTS track. While for DolbyTrueHD it will need to have another Dolby Digital 640kpbs track encoded on the disc. This will only be important if you have older AVR that doesn't support the HD audio formats.

I dont know if the Dolby camp is doing damage control or what but I noticed that many new releases with Dolby TrueHD have interleaved DD 640kbps so even old AVRs can now produce actual sound.

In any case there is something cool(er) when you read on paper that the interleaved soundstream has 1.5mbps instead of 640kbps bitrate.  Hehehe.

[firestorm]

I dont know if the Dolby camp is doing damage control or what but I noticed that many new releases with Dolby TrueHD have interleaved DD 640kbps so even old AVRs can now produce actual sound.

In any case there is something cool(er) when you read on paper that the interleaved soundstream has 1.5mbps instead of 640kbps bitrate.  Hehehe.

So it's in 1 track baka naman they just packed the DD 640 with the DDTrueHD. Hindi ko alam yan kasi wala akong bagong title with DDTrueHD (hint hint! hehehe) Ok narin para streamlined lahat.

Thanks.

[Clondalkin]

So it's in 1 track baka naman they just packed the DD 640 with the DDTrueHD. Hindi ko alam yan kasi wala akong bagong title with DDTrueHD (hint hint! hehehe) Ok narin para streamlined lahat.

If you examine closely, most of the "new" releases with TrueHD are catalogue titles, while the really new 2010 movies and concerts and docs are in DTS-HD/MA. Bakit nga ba ganun ang situation?

Whether embedded AC3 or separate track, I would have to check ulit...or ikaw nalang mag-check next time (hehehe) because once I hear some sound from the HT speakers and the receiver displays Dolby Digital, I usually stop investigating further...hehehe

[barrister]

If you examine closely, most of the "new" releases with TrueHD are catalogue titles, while the really new 2010 movies and concerts and docs are in DTS-HD/MA. Bakit nga ba ganun ang situation?

OK lang yun.

Ayaw magbayad ng studios for both Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD MA on one disc, gusto nila isa lang ang HD audio.  If I were the studio and I have to choose one, I would also choose DTS-HD MA.  

Mas popular kasi ang DTS.  Pag Dolby ang nilagay diyan, magrereklamo na naman ang mga fanboys.  E di DTS na lang, para mas marami ang happy .

[Carlo777]

Update:

My Onkyo AVR was pulled out for another Firmware Update, and what I did was tried watching my Blu-Ray discs and barrister was right!

I was missing nearly half the experience! The jumpy movies just did not have the same effect.

[ninjababez®]

Update:

My Onkyo AVR was pulled out for another Firmware Update, and what I did was tried watching my Blu-Ray discs and barrister was right!

I was missing nearly half the experience! The jumpy movies just did not have the same effect.

sabi sayo carlo ma-miss mo yung surround sound eh 

[Carlo777]

sabi sayo carlo ma-miss mo yung surround sound eh 

Yes brader!

Guys, can anyone describe what a sub distortion is?

[Carlo777]

Our TN speaker system is packed and ready to ship! Can't wait to hear how they sound, so far we have that system, along with an S3300 and a Logitech Z5500...

[Stagea]

the audio system of carlo777 sa TN sayang naman so pinauwi ko na din. sa akin lalang daw anyway, since medyo luma na yung avr. he tells me to connect my blu-ray via opticals, maybe, the sound quality of optical over hdmi is not too far apart naman...is it?

That's a great receiver pa din. It's still a lot better than many current offerings. Congrats Ma'am.

This receiver accepts both audio and video via HDMI. You don't have to use a separate audio connection. Set mo lang yung formats that the receiver can accept dun sa source.

Our TN speaker system is packed and ready to ship! Can't wait to hear how they sound, so far we have that system, along with an S3300 and a Logitech Z5500...

I'm willing to bet that the Pioneer will handily beat both of them, when coupled with good speakers.

[barrister]

I'm willing to bet that the Pioneer will handily beat both of them, when coupled with good speakers.

That's an understatement  .

[comitatus]

just a quick question...

how does dolby pro-logic movie differ from dolby dd? (both i believe are lossy and have 5.1 discrete audio)