Topic: AUTOMATIC v.s. MANUAL Calibration

[at_sunset_blvd]

Guys after you calibrate the AVRs w/ the automatic calibration mic do you still make manual adjustment? I still do coz it still feels its not right, I really think the our natural ear is better in calibrating Just wanting to know whats your approach after an initial set-up? Good day everyone

[iiinas]

Guys after you calibrate the AVRs w/ the automatic calibration mic do you still make manual adjustment? I still do coz it still feels its not right, I really think the our natural ear is better in calibrating Just wanting to know whats your approach after an initial set-up on? Good day everyone

i believe what we are looking for in auto calibration whether its audyssey, mccac, ypao and the likes is the equalization, the gain, crossovers, timing and distances can always be change by the listener to their preference. but the equalization you cant change for these auto calibrating system. doing the eq by yourself is possible but without the necessary tools it might not be a good idea.

i have done it myself and heard it also in sir mark's (streetsmart) home theater. with same settings as for gain, crossover and others. but listening to same source and material with audyssey eq on and off. the difference in sq is very evident.

not to overstate it, what you pay for this auto system is the equalization, its there so that any receiver with it can sound good in any room environment. after audyssey, i set all crossovers to 80hz (thx) then subwoofer gain to +5db hotter than what audyssey recommended. with same setting but eq off, the sound is a bit muddy, bass boomy because of higher gain and it rattles my "kisame" same settings audyssey as-eq1 and audyssey multeq engaged. sounds great.

[Courage]

Guys after you calibrate the AVRs w/ the automatic calibration mic do you still make manual adjustment? I still do coz it still feels its not right, I really think the our natural ear is better in calibrating Just wanting to know whats your approach after an initial set-up on? Good day everyone

Tried Automatic and Manual calibration with my Yamaha and Harman, I always ended up manually adjusting it again...And pareho tayo sir, pag katapos mag automatic calibration parang may kulang he he he...

[Tempter]

I'm in the same boat

Have to manually change the settings after auto calibration... 

[fattyacid]

This is also what Ive heard from the sellers of the AVR, that they still tweak it after the said automation. If I were involved on the product design, I would change the mic. It should not be omnidirectional because our ears arent. The mic should mimic the design of the ears so two mics are needed and should be placed on moulds that have structure of a typical ear. Then the assembly would take a shape of a headphone wherein the user will wear it and sit on the center couch then start the calibration.

[at_sunset_blvd]

i believe what we are looking for in auto calibration whether its audyssey, mccac, ypao and the likes is the equalization, the gain, crossovers, timing and distances can always be change by the listener to their preference. but the equalization you cant change for these auto calibrating system. doing the eq by yourself is possible but without the necessary tools it might not be a good idea.

i have done it myself and heard it also in sir mark's (streetsmart) home theater. with same settings as for gain, crossover and others. but listening to same source and material with audyssey eq on and off. the difference in sq is very evident.

not to overstate it, what you pay for this auto system is the equalization, its there so that any receiver with it can sound good in any room environment. after audyssey, i set all crossovers to 80hz (thx) then subwoofer gain to +5db hotter than what audyssey recommended. with same setting but eq off, the sound is a bit muddy, bass boomy because of higher gain and it rattles my "kisame" same settings audyssey as-eq1 and audyssey multeq engaged. sounds great.

Yes Sir iinas I just redid the distance, Delays, X-overs & levels but never touch the equalization just to be safe Ingit talaga ako sa SVS eq but not now

[at_sunset_blvd]

@courage, @tempter, @fattyacid

-yes our ears are more trusting but I really just do the gains, xovers & delays & dont go beyond doing the equalization settings so I'll not get into trouble   Somethings are better left untouch

[Onkyo606]

Yes Sir iinas I just redid the distance, Delays, X-overs & levels but never touch the equalization just to be safe Ingit talaga ako sa SVS eq but not now

 i dont make adjusments of the speaker distances computed by the audyssey calibration because from my understanding it does not compute the physical distance of the speaker from the ear level but it measure the distance as a function of the time delay factor. The distances plays an important factor in ensuring that the sound coming from all speaker channels arrive at your ear as accurately as possible.

Results of the calibration are based on reference setting and thus much appreciated listening at reference level, 0db infinite or 85db absolute and since i dont listen at this level, I usually jack up all resulting channel level calibrations by about 3 to 5 db while the sub level is set at 3 db hotter. With the ULtra on board, I have not done this anymore in fact i even reduced the setting by 3db. The Ultra is to powerful for my small room of 9 sqm only. On the cross over setting, based on my understanding, if results is at 60 hz or higher, you may opt to maintain it but to ensure all LFEs goes to the sub, I set everything to 80hz

the dynamic eq is always set to on to ensure tonal balance at all volume levels.

[streetsmart]

This is also what Ive heard from the sellers of the AVR, that they still tweak it after the said automation.

Are you referring to the local vendors? My experience is that the local sales people or techies don't really have the time to fully understand audio and video calibration. Their knowledge is often quite shallow. Ergo, I don't really give much weight to what they say.

If I were involved on the product design, I would change the mic. It should not be omnidirectional because our ears arent. The mic should mimic the design of the ears so two mics are needed and should be placed on moulds that have structure of a typical ear. Then the assembly would take a shape of a headphone wherein the user will wear it and sit on the center couch then start the calibration.

This is actually done, using dummies with the mics built in to their "ears" which are shaped exactly like those of humans. They are called "binaural" recordings and are optimized for headphones. If you want everyone to listen with headphones, okay ito but normally, that's not how people listen especially when you have a group.

[CMac]

agree with iii. equalization is what i'm after as well. tried manually tweaking a pioneer amp and it sounded really flat and thin. the thought of being "halfway there" with calibration tools give me a sense of accomplishment instead of thinking if i've done it right from the start with manual tweaks.

[Courage]

@courage, @tempter, @fattyacid

-yes our ears are more trusting but I really just do the gains, xovers & delays & dont go beyond doing the equalization settings so I'll not get into trouble   Somethings are better left untouch

Same here sir, i dont touch things that i dont understand he he he... sometimes ginagalaw ko simply because of curiosity..."What does this button do?""" Meron naman reset to manaufacturers setting eh ha ha ha...

Kaya nga i wanted to listen to the settings of our masters here eh....Tingan ko kung ano ba talaga ang tamang tunog.... Though i know we have different taste..

[markcrenz]

we're not usually satisfied with the auto settings because we do not usually listen to the reference level, which is quite loud for some. basis nito is the equal loudness contour. once you listen below reference level malaki ang nababawas sa perception natin ng bass & treble frequencies compared sa middle frequencies. not sure though if this is handled by the dynamic eq.

my receiver sets the reference level at -18dB and i find -30dB to -25dB loud enough. but i always set the sub 6 to 10 dB hot.

[at_sunset_blvd]

we're not usually satisfied with the auto settings because we do not usually listen to the reference level, which is quite loud for some. basis nito is the equal loudness contour. once you listen below reference level malaki ang nababawas sa perception natin ng bass & treble frequencies compared sa middle frequencies. not sure though if this is handled by the dynamic eq.

my receiver sets the reference level at -18dB and i find -30dB to -25dB loud enough. but i always set the sub 6 to 10 dB hot.

Ok I'll try to adjust the sub's ref level mamaya coz when I started using SVS the bass seems to be lesser, it only produces the lows when for example a head-on collision but in a explosion (e.g. BODY OF LIES starting point where terrorist blew there own apartment up) there seems to be a little only w/c my previous subs could produce alot before  But the good thing about these subs that they are not boomy. As for my Fronts, Rears, Backs & Center I'm very satisfied already so thats why I hate to re-calibrate everything 

[streetsmart]

we're not usually satisfied with the auto settings because we do not usually listen to the reference level, which is quite loud for some. basis nito is the equal loudness contour. once you listen below reference level malaki ang nababawas sa perception natin ng bass & treble frequencies compared sa middle frequencies. not sure though if this is handled by the dynamic eq.

my receiver sets the reference level at -18dB and i find -30dB to -25dB loud enough. but i always set the sub 6 to 10 dB hot.

This is exactly the problem that Audyssey Dynamic EQ is meant to solve. Otherwise, the tendency, when listening at volumes lower than reference, is to increase the bass and treble. The problem is that the amount of increase is also dependent on the material itself so you end up constantly adjusting the volume control.

[streetsmart]

Ok I'll try to adjust the sub's ref level mamaya coz when I started using SVS the bass seems to be lesser, it only produces the lows when for example a head-on collision but in a explosion (e.g. BODY OF LIES starting point where terrorist blew there own apartment up) there seems to be a little only w/c my previous subs could produce alot before  But the good thing about these subs that they are not boomy. As for my Fronts, Rears, Backs & Center I'm very satisfied already so thats why I hate to re-calibrate everything 

Have you set all your speakers are set to "Small" or "Full Range" with a xover of about 80 Hz or so? You should. That's the usual problem when people complain about "too little bass" from the sub.

[at_sunset_blvd]

Have you set all your speakers are set to "Small" or "Full Range" with a xover of about 80 Hz or so? You should. That's the usual problem when people complain about "too little bass" from the sub.

Yes Sir Mark its all SMALL & set at 80hz eversince. I'll try Sir markcrenz advice to up the level for the sub in the receiver. I'll do it tonight & give an update here. Thanks

[at_sunset_blvd]

guys I increased the sub level in my AVR & now the bass is just perfect from my subs no more wondering why I got lesser when I changed my subs to SVS. It just I notice that these subs produces a very low tight frequency signals & most of all very clean bass w/out boominess so its not like the previous subs I have w/c is boomy so even at low levels in the AVR settings the bass would still come out while right now I could really distinguish the articulate tight clean bass, whoo now I could put I smile on my face whenever an explosion, airplanes passing by, head on collision & guns popping. Thanks for the tips Sir MARKCRENZ for giving the idea of adjusting the level in the AVR settings. I keep on wondering why I never thought of that, before I always tried to increase the level knobs of the subs but still felt the bass is not right

[markcrenz]

^ you're welcome! (it's still my reply to those who say thanks, even if others keep replying "no problem" ) nice to know i helped somebody. as you said in your first post, our ears can calibrate better. 

[Vinyasa]

first inautomatic calibration ko ung system then after inaadjust ko manually ng konti.ung tenga pa din ang masusunod.hehe.

[fattyacid]

This is also what Ive heard from the sellers of the AVR, that they still tweak it after the said automation. If I were involved on the product design, I would change the mic. It should not be omnidirectional because our ears arent. The mic should mimic the design of the ears so two mics are needed and should be placed on moulds that have structure of a typical ear. Then the assembly would take a shape of a headphone wherein the user will wear it and sit on the center couch then start the calibration.

I lately got an AVR with auto calibration (not audyssey though). What I did was to put a pillow behind the omni mic, so the resulting surrounds will have more umph.

[markcrenz]

I lately got an AVR with auto calibration (not audyssey though). What I did was to put a pillow behind the omni mic, so the resulting surrounds will have more umph.

ganyan din ginawa ko dati, and with the mic facing the center speaker instead of the recommended upright position. sounded better than when i followed the recommended calibration setup.

[pa3ck608]

I lately got an AVR with auto calibration (not audyssey though). What I did was to put a pillow behind the omni mic, so the resulting surrounds will have more umph.

what about the pillow? why would it improve the sq?

ganyan din ginawa ko dati, and with the mic facing the center speaker instead of the recommended upright position. sounded better than when i followed the recommended calibration setup.

same question. thanks 

[markcrenz]

nabawasan yung in-your-face character ng LCR at medyo lumakas yung surrounds.

[pa3ck608]

nabawasan yung in-your-face character ng LCR at medyo lumakas yung surrounds.

ah. i see. will give it a try. thanks again

[Conan]

nabawasan yung in-your-face character ng LCR at medyo lumakas yung surrounds.

Hhhmmm, when I do Audyssey the conventional way I have to reduce my surround speakers by around 2db after because they are too loud they tend to draw the image away from the fronts to the rear.

[markcrenz]

with so many variables, ymmv always. 
for me positive yung result. balance yung sound when vocals pan to the rear.