Topic: NBA 2012 Season

[DVD_Freak]

But was he really "the man" on Miami? Conventional thinking of this issue would point out it was Shaq and not Wade.

But doesn't winning finals MVP prove you carried the team to the title? The difference-maker...therefore "the man".

[Battousai]

No, it doesn't. That just opens the floodgates to more BS reasoning that Wade didn't win without Shaq back then, Kobe didn't win without Shaq, players didn't win without PAt Riley, Phil Jackson etc. That's why when someone suggests someone didn't win without this certain player, sarcasm is the best answer coz more often that not, these fans cannot comprehend "team" sports and focus only on individuals.

[DVD_Freak]

No, it doesn't. That just opens the floodgates to more BS reasoning that Wade didn't win without Shaq back then, Kobe didn't win without Shaq, players didn't win without PAt Riley, Phil Jackson etc. That's why when someone suggests someone didn't win without this certain player, sarcasm is the best answer coz more often that not, these fans cannot comprehend "team" sports and focus only on individuals.

But there will always be that player who carried the team to the title.  And that would be the finals MVP. Of course the team wouldn't be able to do so w/o contributions from other teammates. But there will always be one player who stands out the most. The one whose contribution stood out the most and the one who made the most difference. And that is the finals MVP.

If you were to score between Wade and Lebron, I don't think Wade fans would object to a score of 1-1.

[warmaster]

But was he really "the man" on Miami? Conventional thinking of this issue would point out it was Shaq and not Wade.

i beg to differ. miami is wade's team. when shaq came in he was old, tired, out of shape and uninspired. he looked like a guy who wanted to ride the young gun's (wade) coat tails for another title. much like what he was looking for when he joined steve nash in phoenix, lebron james in cleveland and the big three of boston. he was hoping to get more rings than kobe.

heck, alonzo mourning showed more grit and determination throughout the 2006 NBA playoffs

[Battousai]

Yes, he stood out the most, hence the award. But were talking about being the man here, not just of a series, but of his team as a whole. Wade stood out, but like Kobe before him, admittedly, Shaq was the man.

[Battousai]

i beg to differ. miami is wade's team. when shaq came in he was old, tired, out of shape and uninspired. he looked like a guy who wanted to ride the young gun's (wade) coat tails for another title. much like what he was looking for when he joined steve nash in phoenix, lebron james in cleveland and the big three of boston. he was hoping to get more rings than kobe.

heck, alonzo mourning showed more grit and determination throughout the 2006 NBA playoffs

You must be thinking post Miami championship Shaq. When he bolted LA, he went on a crazy workout to prove he wasn't the fat player her was turning out to be. I was even frustrated when LA traded him looking at the pics and videos of the Miami Shaq coz he looked like a beast. Wade, was just starting to emerge then and was the perfect compliment to a dominant Shaq. Wade wasn't the whiny player we see now and I really loved how he didn't bitch whenever he got knocked down. Just stood up and let his game talk.

[warmaster]

wade scored more points than shaq during the regular season and the playoffs that year. and most plays revolved around wade. when shaq came in, it was already established that wade was the franchise player. how is he the man? i don't get it

[DVD_Freak]

Yes, he stood out the most, hence the award. But were talking about being the man here, not just of a series, but of his team as a whole. Wade stood out, but like Kobe before him, admittedly, Shaq was the man.

But Wade was the man for Miami as a whole even in 2006. I don't recall Shaq being the man for Miami ever. What I do remember is that Miami then wanted an inside-out game. So Shaq was normally the first touch on offense. But Wade was the franchise player.

[rusty]

D. Wade in 2006
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3708/career;_ylt=AlyfC3aimwQnWwRctHfxthnNPKB4
Shaq
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/847/career;_ylt=AlyfC3aimwQnWwRctHfxthkBPKB4

Finals Box Scores
http://www.nba.com/games/20060608/MIADAL/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20060611/MIADAL/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20060613/DALMIA/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20060615/DALMIA/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20060618/DALMIA/boxscore.html
http://www.nba.com/games/20060620/MIADAL/boxscore.html

[warmaster]

shaq also admitted that he wanted to be traded to miami because of wade

[5zig3n]

When he bolted LA, he went on a crazy workout to prove he wasn't the fat player her was turning out to be. I was even frustrated when LA traded him looking at the pics and videos of the Miami Shaq coz he looked like a beast.

this is fact.

he was so pissed at the Lakers and Kobe and he used this as motivation to lead Miami to that 2006 championship

along with Wade of course

remember boys, it takes two to tango. and three to [fill in the blank]

[warmaster]

this is fact.

he was so pissed at the Lakers and Kobe and he used this as motivation to lead Miami to that 2006 championship

along with Wade of course

i think shaq was looking for a contract extension but the lakers organization at that time saw their future in the hands of kobe bryant. and following the loss in 2004's finals i guess the relationship was strained. this is another sad turn of events as shaq did give them 3 titles. perhaps it was karma's own brand of poetic justice for when he "deserted" orlando magic

[5zig3n]

i think shaq was looking for a contract extension

during an exhibition game in Honolulu, Shaq loudly yelled to Lakers' owner Jerry Buss to "pay me."  

[5zig3n]

^ we should not consider kobe's 1st 3 championships as he is not the main man for the team when they won those titles.

so, should we also disregard Robert Horry's 7 championships?

Houston Rockets (1994, 1995)
Los Angeles Lakers (2000, 2001, 2002)
San Antonio Spurs (2005, 2007)

because he wasn't the ''main man'' on those teams?

how about the other NBA players who also won championships but weren't the no.1 option?

Steve Kerr
Scottie Pippen
Bruce Bowen
Dennis Rodman
Derek Fisher
James Worthy
Kevin Mchale
Robert Parish
Bill Laimbeer
Joe Dumars

the list goes on and on..

maybe the NBA should enforce a new rule that ONLY the championship team's primary offensive option aka ''the main man'' can receive a championship ring. as for the other players on that team, they would only receive discount coupons from Best Buy and Mcdonalds.

[5zig3n]

Kobe and Shaq: Putting to Rest the Kobe Wouldn't Have Won Without Shaq Argument
Larry Cooder, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Oct 24, 2010


Heat Repeat: How Miami Can Win Another Championship In 2013
By Tom Ziller - NBA Editor
Jun 22, 2012 sbnation.com

[rusty]

Harden might be willing to take less money to stay in OKC...

James Harden Sees “Dynasty” Being Built in OKC

“This is something special here,” Harden said. “A dynasty is being built here. So we’re winning, we’re having fun and we’re brothers. The other stuff, you can’t buy it.”

http://blog.newsok.com/thunderrumblings/2012/06/23/james-harden-sees-dynasty-being-built-in-okc/

[rexFi]

so, should we also disregard Robert Horry's 7 championships?

Depends on what is the context of the conversation.

e.g. if Horry vs. MJ is the topic?

[rexFi]

Kobe and Shaq: Putting to Rest the Kobe Wouldn't Have Won Without Shaq Argument
Larry Cooder, Yahoo! Contributor Network
Oct 24, 2010

Kobe benefits most from LeBron hate
Jason Whitlock, Fox Sports Exclusive
Oct 24, 2010

You give Wade the same rosters Kobe has played with throughout his Los Angeles career, and I guarantee you the Heat win the same number of titles — if not more. If you look at their career numbers, Wade is a better all-around player than Bryant. Wade bests Bryant in field-goal percentage, assists, steals and blocks and is in a virtual tie with Bryant in points per game (25.4 to 25.3) and rebounds (5.3 to 5.2).

[DVD_Freak]

so, should we also disregard Robert Horry's 7 championships?

Houston Rockets (1994, 1995)
Los Angeles Lakers (2000, 2001, 2002)
San Antonio Spurs (2005, 2007)

because he wasn't the ''main man'' on those teams?

how about the other NBA players who also won championships but weren't the no.1 option?

Steve Kerr
Scottie Pippen
Bruce Bowen
Dennis Rodman
Derek Fisher
James Worthy
Kevin Mchale
Robert Parish
Bill Laimbeer
Joe Dumars

the list goes on and on..

maybe the NBA should enforce a new rule that ONLY the championship team's primary offensive option aka ''the main man'' can receive a championship ring. as for the other players on that team, they would only receive discount coupons from Best Buy and Mcdonalds.

Isn't that a bit of a stretch of an argument?  

Well then conversations should end with just one name.... Bill Russell.  

[warmaster]

Isn't that a bit of a stretch of an argument?  

Well then conversations should end with just one name.... Bill Russell.  

then again bill russell was surrounded with a lot of talented players. names like bob cousy, bill sharman and tommy heihnson, then sam jones, john havlicek, bailey howell etc. russell never lead his team in scoring but dominated defensively and in rebounding. plus, those guys knew how to play team basketball 

[5zig3n]

Well then conversations should end with just one name.... Bill Russell.  

Bill Russell and his freakin' 11 championship rings. 

how does he wear/use his 11th championship ring?

[Battousai]

I agree. Bill Russel is the be all and end all of all conversation when it comes to winning as a player. The guy had more rings than fingers.

[warmaster]

Bill Russell and his freakin' 11 championship rings. 

how does he wear/use his 11th championship ring?

nandun sa number 11 yung isa. ika nga ni wooly booly: "that is the number eleven!"  

[5zig3n]

i just don't buy into the ''he wasn't the main man on the team so he doesn't deserve to be credited with the championship'' thing. i always believe that Shaq couldn't have won those 3 rings without Kobe and vice-versa. and they both couldn't have won those rings without the help of guys like Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, etc.

NBA championships = total team effort. not just one or two guys

[5zig3n]

nandun sa number 11 yung isa. ika nga ni wooly booly: "that is the number eleven!"  

LOL oo nga noh. hehehe  

Wilt Chamberlain = offense
Bill Russell = defense

but Bill Russell had the better team compared to Chamberlain's Lakers.

[warmaster]

i just don't buy into the ''he wasn't the main man on the team so he doesn't deserve to be credited with the championship'' thing. i always believe that Shaq couldn't have those 3 rings without Kobe and vice-versa. and they both couldn't have won those rings without the help of guys like Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, etc.

NBA championships = total team effort. not just one or two guys

+10000000

ganun din naman si jordan, pippen was there and MJ acknolwedges that fact. you can't win alone, ask iverson. 

[5zig3n]

+10000000you can't win alone, ask iverson. 

Iverson only had Mutombo as a sidekick when he faced the 2001 Lakers

not that im degrading Mutombo as a player, he just didn't produce enough offense to support AI

who's more of a ballhog, Iverson or Russell Westbrick?

[Battousai]

There is no "I" in team?

False!

[5zig3n]

hehehe nice one 

[warmaster]

Iverson only had Mutombo as a sidekick when he faced the 2001 Lakers

not that im degrading Mutombo as a player, he just didn't produce enough offense to support AI

who's more of a ballhog, Iverson or Russell Westbrick?

iverson learned how to move without the ball, going through screens to get a decent shot (parang rip hamilton). so he shot the ball more but it was inside the offesive set. si westbrick naman kasi baba sa opensa tapos tira na agad, wala nang ibang nakahawak ng bola.