Author Topic: The Religion Thread  (Read 362148 times)

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Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #180 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 07:48 AM »
Bakit po ninyo nasabi yan?

Maybe because they use logic, and evidence (scientific ones) rather than faith.

I for one is intrigued by the fact that there are no grass during the time of the dinosaurs but grass covers 25% of the land today. Where they late creations or the product of fauna evolution?

No fossil evidence of chickens and there are chickens now, how come?

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #181 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 09:22 AM »
Maybe because they use logic, and evidence (scientific ones) rather than faith.

I for one is intrigued by the fact that there are no grass during the time of the dinosaurs but grass covers 25% of the land today. Where they late creations or the product of fauna evolution?

No fossil evidence of chickens and there are chickens now, how come?

no fossils of the so called "missing link" and there are humans right now... how come?


creation is by faith... so is evolution....

There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #182 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 09:28 AM »
no fossils of the so called "missing link" and there are humans right now... how come?


creation is by faith... so is evolution....



Because it's still missing...  :D

anyway, I agree with the faith thingy, though at different motivations and different impetus.

Offline dpogs

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #183 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 09:36 AM »
Because it's still missing...  :D

anyway, I agree with the faith thingy, though at different motivations and different impetus.


maybe the chicken fossil still missing also... :)


sino ba naman ang 'may isip na tatay' na isasakripisyo ang buhay ng sariling anak para sa Diyos (Abraham)?
wala sa logic.... only by faith.


sino ba naman ang gagawa ng malaking barko kasi may darating na baha (Moses)?
wala sa logic at reasoning... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwalang general ng army na itaas lang niya ang kanyang kamay titigil na sa pagikot ang buwan at araw?
wala sa logic at science.... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwala na kapag hinawakan mo ang damit ni Jesus ay gagaling ka sa sakit?
walang scientific explanation.... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwala na ang isang patay ay muling mabubuhay?
walang scientific explanation.... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwala na kapag ininom mo ang 'living water' ay hindi ka mamatay?
wala sa logic... only by faith.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2011 at 09:39 AM by dpogs »
There is none righteous, no not one.

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #184 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 09:51 AM »
Yes, all because of faith...

Offline sardaukar

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #185 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 09:58 AM »
I guess a more specific thing to wonder about is why are most animals found in fossils no longer around today and conversely, why are most animals today not found in fossils?

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #186 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 10:18 AM »
I guess a more specific thing to wonder about is why are most animals found in fossils no longer around today and conversely, why are most animals today not found in fossils?

Because of faith?  :D

Offline Wildfire™

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #187 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 10:32 AM »
Quote
sino ba naman ang gagawa ng malaking barko kasi may darating na baha (Moses)?
wala sa logic at reasoning... only by faith.

si noah brader dpogs  ;D

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #188 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 12:35 PM »
Maybe because they use logic, and evidence (scientific ones) rather than faith.

I for one is intrigued by the fact that there are no grass during the time of the dinosaurs but grass covers 25% of the land today. Where they late creations or the product of fauna evolution?

No fossil evidence of chickens and there are chickens now, how come?




Scientific theories change over time.

They used to think grass appeared after dinosaurs became extinct.  Not anymore.

They also used to think birds did not coexist with dinosaurs.  That one's now in the process of an upgrade.



Dinosaurs had appetite for grass
A study of fossil dinosaur dung has for the first time
confirmed that the ancient reptiles ate grass.

Last Updated: Thursday, 17 November 2005, 18:55 GMT  

Grass was previously thought to have become common only after the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.

...The study also sheds new light on the evolution of grass. Grasses are thought to have undergone a major diversification and geographic proliferation during the so-called Cenozoic, after the dinosaurs had gone extinct.

But the researchers found at least five different types of grass in the droppings.

This suggests grasses had already undergone substantial diversification in the Late Cretaceous, when the giant beasts still walked the Earth.

 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4443696.stm




Relatives of Living Ducks and Chickens Existed
Alongside Dinosaurs More Than 65 Million Years Ago

Jan. 19, 2005

Newly published North Carolina State University research into the evolution of birds shows the first definitive fossil proof linking close relatives of living birds to a time when dinosaurs roamed the earth.


http://www.ncsu.edu/news/press_releases/05_01/015.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14307985


« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2011 at 06:16 PM by barrister »

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #189 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 12:45 PM »



Scientific theories change over time.

They used to think grass appeared after dinosaurs became extinct.  Not anymore.

They also used to think birds did not coexist with dinosaurs.  That one's now in the process of an upgrade.



Dinosaurs had appetite for grass
A study of fossil dinosaur dung has for the first time
confirmed that the ancient reptiles ate grass.


Grass was previously thought to have become common only after the dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.

The study also sheds new light on the evolution of grass. Grasses are thought to have undergone a major diversification and geographic proliferation during the so-called Cenozoic, after the dinosaurs had gone extinct.

But the researchers found at least five different types of grass in the droppings.

This suggests grasses had already undergone substantial diversification in the Late Cretaceous, when the giant beasts still walked the Earth.

 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4443696.stm




Relatives of Living Ducks and Chickens Existed
Alongside Dinosaurs More Than 65 Million Years Ago

Jan. 19, 2005

Newly published North Carolina State University research into the evolution of birds shows the first definitive fossil proof linking close relatives of living birds to a time when dinosaurs roamed the earth.


http://www.ncsu.edu/news/press_releases/05_01/015.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14307985




Thanks for these.  ;)

Offline tigkal

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #190 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 12:54 PM »
During their time, it was faith, During our time, we interpret is as faith. Later, Logic, Science and Human Nature will explain the reason behind the faith.

It is similar to the TV show exposing the logic and science behind the magic tricks of the magicians. At a glance it was magic. But when explained, there was logic, science and human nature..

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #191 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 01:09 PM »
During their time, it was faith, During our time, we interpret is as faith. Later, Logic, Science and Human Nature will explain the reason behind the faith.

It is similar to the TV show exposing the logic and science behind the magic tricks of the magicians. At a glance it was magic. But when explained, there was logic, science and human nature..

I hope it can explain the virgin birth...

Offline Moks007

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #192 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 01:34 PM »

maybe the chicken fossil still missing also... :)


sino ba naman ang 'may isip na tatay' na isasakripisyo ang buhay ng sariling anak para sa Diyos (Abraham)?
wala sa logic.... only by faith.


sino ba naman ang gagawa ng malaking barko kasi may darating na baha (Moses)?
wala sa logic at reasoning... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwalang general ng army na itaas lang niya ang kanyang kamay titigil na sa pagikot ang buwan at araw?
wala sa logic at science.... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwala na kapag hinawakan mo ang damit ni Jesus ay gagaling ka sa sakit?
walang scientific explanation.... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwala na ang isang patay ay muling mabubuhay?
walang scientific explanation.... only by faith.

sino ba naman ang maniniwala na kapag ininom mo ang 'living water' ay hindi ka mamatay?
wala sa logic... only by faith.

Faith..Hebrews Chapter 11



11Now faith is the substance [1] of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report. 3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet [2] speaketh. 5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, [3] not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. 17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure. 20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come. 21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff. 22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones. 23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. 24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ [4] greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. 28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. 29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned. 30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days. 31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.

32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy:) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided [5] some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
« Last Edit: Aug 03, 2011 at 03:15 PM by Moks007 »

Offline devlin_waugh

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #193 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 02:56 PM »
uh oh copy paste debates again...

Offline The Stig

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #194 on: Aug 03, 2011 at 08:45 PM »

Offline tigkal

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #195 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 08:33 AM »
I hope it can explain the virgin birth...

Actually it can be explained now. The current technology now can make a virgin woman pregnant by artificial insemination. This is what was said by a tv series in history channel. Ancient Aliens I think.

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #196 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 11:37 AM »
I hope it can explain the virgin birth...

 :D

If it's just a fairy tale, why bother thinking up an explanation?



Actually it can be explained now. The current technology now can make a virgin woman pregnant by artificial insemination. This is what was said by a tv series in history channel. Ancient Aliens I think.


That's not an explanation, that's speculation.

Aliens impregnating Mary by artificial insemination more than 2,000 years ago?

Man, that's pretty wild.  That's about as wild as believing that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.  You'll need a lot of faith to believe either story ...  :D  

Why not just keep it simple.  How about Mary was impregnated by some other dude.  Or maybe the bible story is pure fiction, and neither Mary nor Jesus ever existed.  After all, there's no evidence that Jesus ever existed, so why assume that the virgin conception story is true?

« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2011 at 11:45 AM by barrister »

Offline Wildfire™

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #197 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 11:42 AM »
has anyone seen the documentary " The Lost Tomb of Jesus Christ" ?

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #198 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 12:32 PM »
:D

If it's just a fairy tale, why bother thinking up an explanation?




That's not an explanation, that's speculation.

Aliens impregnating Mary by artificial insemination more than 2,000 years ago?

Man, that's pretty wild.  That's about as wild as believing that Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit.  You'll need a lot of faith to believe either story ...  :D  

Why not just keep it simple.  How about Mary was impregnated by some other dude.  Or maybe the bible story is pure fiction, and neither Mary nor Jesus ever existed.  After all, there's no evidence that Jesus ever existed, so why assume that the virgin conception story is true?



Yeah. No Jesus. No virgin birth.

Offline tigkal

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #199 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 03:05 PM »
Yeah. No Jesus. No virgin birth.

Now, Virgin Birth?, possible, Jesus? refer to the bible..

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #200 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 04:43 PM »
Now, Virgin Birth?, possible, Jesus? refer to the bible..

who says the bible is correct?

what about the Quoran, why are we not using it? or the book of Mormons?

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #201 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 05:16 PM »
Now, Virgin Birth?, possible, Jesus? refer to the bible..

I prefer to say "virgin conception".

Do you only mean virgin conception, or do you also include virgin birth?

The bible says Jesus' physical body was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and that's it.  But Catholic doctrine extends this to great extremes.

Catholics believe that Mary was a virgin not only when Jesus was conceived, but also when Jesus was born, after Jesus was born, and throughout her entire lifetime.  That's the Catholic doctrine of perpetual virginity.  That's why they pray, "blessed Mary 'ever-Virgin'" in the Confiteor of the Mass.

This is a Catholic "de fide" doctrine ("de fide divina et ecclesiastica"), the denial of which is considered heresy.

That's not in the bible, of course.

But wait ... there's more ...  ;)

Catholics also believe that Mary was herself virginally conceived.  They call it the "Immaculate Conception", which is often mistaken to be the immaculate conception of Jesus.  This is a Catholic ex cathedra doctrine (1854, Pope Pius IX), a "de fide definita".  

So under Catholic doctrine, Jesus and Mary were both virginally conceived.  

That's why the Feast of the Annunciation (virginal conception of Jesus) is on March 25 (they believe Jesus was born December 25, or nine months later); but the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (virginal conception of Mary) is on December 8 (they believe Mary was born on September 8, or nine months later).

None of that is in the bible, of course.

« Last Edit: Aug 04, 2011 at 05:32 PM by barrister »

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #202 on: Aug 04, 2011 at 06:14 PM »
I prefer to say "virgin conception".

Do you only mean virgin conception, or do you also include virgin birth?

The bible says Jesus' physical body was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and that's it.  But Catholic doctrine extends this to great extremes.

Catholics believe that Mary was a virgin not only when Jesus was conceived, but also when Jesus was born, after Jesus was born, and throughout her entire lifetime.  That's the Catholic doctrine of perpetual virginity.  That's why they pray, "blessed Mary 'ever-Virgin'" in the Confiteor of the Mass.

This is a Catholic "de fide" doctrine ("de fide divina et ecclesiastica"), the denial of which is considered heresy.

That's not in the bible, of course.

But wait ... there's more ...  ;)

Catholics also believe that Mary was herself virginally conceived.  They call it the "Immaculate Conception", which is often mistaken to be the immaculate conception of Jesus.  This is a Catholic ex cathedra doctrine (1854, Pope Pius IX), a "de fide definita".  

So under Catholic doctrine, Jesus and Mary were both virginally conceived.  

That's why the Feast of the Annunciation (virginal conception of Jesus) is on March 25 (they believe Jesus was born December 25, or nine months later); but the Feast of the Immaculate Conception (virginal conception of Mary) is on December 8 (they believe Mary was born on September 8, or nine months later).

None of that is in the bible, of course.




Then I pity Joseph and Mary's father.

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #203 on: Aug 05, 2011 at 12:23 AM »
Then I pity Joseph and Mary's father.

I tried confirming this on the Catholic Encyclopedia.

It turns out that Mary was not virginally conceived, according to Catholic doctrine.  My mistake.  By Mary's "Immaculate Conception," they simply mean that Mary was conceived free from original sin.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm

But my post about the Catholic doctrine of Mary's perpetual virginity is confirmed.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15448a.htm

« Last Edit: Aug 05, 2011 at 12:27 AM by barrister »

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #204 on: Aug 05, 2011 at 11:06 AM »
Religion in the news --- the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Fundamentalist Mormons, not the mainstream Mormons):


US polygamist leader convicted of child sex abuse
By Will Weissert
Associated Press
7:05 am | Friday, August 5th, 2011  

SAN ANGELO, Texas— A Texas jury convicted polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs of child sexual assault Thursday in a case stemming from two young followers he took as brides in what his church calls “spiritual marriages.”

...Even after the judge in the case dismissed the jury, Jeffs continued asserting his right to practice his religion the way he saw fit. A self-proclaimed "living prophet" of God, Jeffs read what he claimed to be a message from God.

"I, the Lord God of heaven, call upon the court to cease this prosecution against my pure, holy way," said Jeff.

"I shall send a scourge upon the counties of prosecutorial zeal to be humbled by sickness and death," he added.

His polygamist sect has approximately 10,000 followers across North America, which promotes that plural marriage is the pathway to heaven.


http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/36637/us-polygamist-leader-convicted-of-child-sex-abuse

« Last Edit: Aug 05, 2011 at 11:11 AM by barrister »

Offline oweidah

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #205 on: Aug 20, 2011 at 08:35 PM »
is Freemasonry a religion?

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #206 on: Aug 20, 2011 at 11:54 PM »
Tamang-tama, I recently bought the Giles Morgan book from Fully Booked:



No, Freemasonry is just a fraternal organization.  

They are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being, but that's as far as it goes.  They are not required to explain their belief because a member is free to believe as he wishes, based on his own conscience.  

A member can believe in his own God and be a Freemason at the same time, because there is no separate Masonic God.  They have Masonic rituals, but they have no theology.  Religious discussion is prohibited, so as to safeguard a member's right to freely follow his own religious beliefs.

Opponents of Freemasonry accuse it of being a religion.

One of the most vocal opponents of Freemasonry is Catholicism.  The Catholic "Quaesitum est" (1983) clarifies and re-asserts that Catholics are forbidden from joining Masonic organizations.
« Last Edit: Aug 20, 2011 at 11:56 PM by barrister »

Offline Wildfire™

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #207 on: Aug 21, 2011 at 12:04 AM »
i heard that freemasons are part of the illuminati is that true?

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #208 on: Aug 21, 2011 at 12:16 AM »
No, the Illuminati is a separate organization not connected to Freemasonry.

The confusion arises from the fact that the Illuminati has an organizational structure that was patterned after Freemasonry.


Offline oweidah

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #209 on: Aug 21, 2011 at 07:05 AM »

No, Freemasonry is just a fraternal organization.  

They are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being, but that's as far as it goes.  They are not required to explain their belief because a member is free to believe as he wishes, based on his own conscience.  

A member can believe in his own God and be a Freemason at the same time, because there is no separate Masonic God.  They have Masonic rituals, but they have no theology.  Religious discussion is prohibited, so as to safeguard a member's right to freely follow his own religious beliefs.

Opponents of Freemasonry accuse it of being a religion.

One of the most vocal opponents of Freemasonry is Catholicism.  The Catholic "Quaesitum est" (1983) clarifies and re-asserts that Catholics are forbidden from joining Masonic organizations.



baka ma-o.t., kung hindi pala religion ang freemasonry

nakaka-intriga lang kasi masyado pala malihim ang mga mason. at pag 30th degree na dun daw lumilinaw kung ano talaga ang freemasonry.

btw mason pala sina jprizal andresbonifacio juan luna atbp.