Author Topic: The Religion Thread  (Read 362128 times)

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Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #240 on: Oct 24, 2011 at 03:04 AM »
Yes, the Gnostic view is that the serpent is the messenger of the higher god.

The creator god is actually Satan, who made the material world and man without authorization from the supreme god.  The creator god made Adam and Eve incapable of distinguishing between good and evil, and ignorant of their origin and destiny.

The supreme god wanted to liberate man by opening his eyes to the truth.  So this higher god sent the serpent (Lucifer), who told Eve to eat the forbidden fruit so that man will know the truth and become aware of their true situation and great destiny.

Those who worship the creator god are blind to the truth because they consider the serpent to be evil, when it is actually the creator god who is evil and it is the serpent who is the savior -- the liberator who brought enlightenment through the secret knowledge of the gnosis.

Sayang lang ang oras kung pag-aralan pa natin ang mga nonsense na Gnostic beliefs na ito.  :D  


Yeah. Napag-usapan lang.

Btw, my favorite verse is Ephesians 2:8-10.  ;D A good summary for me. Andun na ang salvation. May pre-destination pa. Calvinism.  :D

Offline Verbl Kint

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #241 on: Oct 24, 2011 at 06:08 AM »
No, it wasn't even written by Judas. 


A bit OT: 

The name "Judas" has been getting a bad rap since the 1st century, no thanks to the alleged traitor, Judas Iscariot.  It used to be a revered name amongst the Jews during the time of Christ, thanks to Judas Maccabeus.

In fact, Hanukkah is celebrated to this day thanks to the Maccabees.

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #242 on: Oct 24, 2011 at 09:52 AM »
The name is actually Yehudah (Hebrew: יְהוּדָה), and it's a common Hebrew name.  "Judas" is just the anglicized Greek rendering, which can also be rendered in English as "Judah" as the anglicized Hebrew.

The usual English rendering is actually "Judah Maccabee" (Yehudhah HamMakabi, or Judah the Hammer).  "Judas Maccabeus" is the less common rendering, popularized by an oratorio by Handel with the same title.

In English, saying "Judas" without anything more is understood to refer to Judas Iscariot.  If you're referring to another Judas, you have to state the name completely, as in "Judas Thomas Didymus," "Judas Barsabbas," "Judas Thaddaeus," etc.

« Last Edit: Oct 24, 2011 at 10:46 AM by barrister »

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #243 on: Oct 24, 2011 at 12:27 PM »
Who Chose the Gospels?: Probing the Great Gospel Conspiracy by C. E. Hill
Publisher: Oxford University Press | ISBN 10: 0199551235 | 2010 | PDF | 240 pages | 23 MB

It is now widely said that the four Gospels rose to prominence only after a long battle within early Christianity, a battle finally won in the fourth century, after the establishment of the Church by Constantine the Great. In Who Chose the Gospels? Charles E. Hill demolishes this claim, providing a more historically accurate, alternative account of how the Church came to acknowledge four, and only four, narratives of the life of Jesus.

Download ebook at:

http://www.filesonic.com/file/2357073221
http://www.wupload.com/file/318251770



This is a legitimate concern for those who do not believe in the Bible.
« Last Edit: Oct 24, 2011 at 12:49 PM by ezkerovalatzky »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #244 on: Oct 24, 2011 at 08:39 PM »
Cut & paste ko lang from wiki, re the Bar from Barabbas:

Barabbas' name appears as bar-Abbas in the Greek texts. It is derived ultimately from the Aramaic בר-אבא, Bar-abbâ, "son of the father"

Offline ezkerovalatzky

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #245 on: Oct 25, 2011 at 08:40 AM »
Cut & paste ko lang from wiki, re the Bar from Barabbas:

Barabbas' name appears as bar-Abbas in the Greek texts. It is derived ultimately from the Aramaic בר-אבא, Bar-abbâ, "son of the father"

So the expression "Anak ka ng tatay mo!" literally means Barabbas. ;)

Offline rusty

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #246 on: Oct 28, 2011 at 08:35 PM »
Catholics’ Mass liturgy changing; ‘ritual whiplash’ ahead?
By Michelle Boorstein,

English-speaking Catholics are bracing for the biggest changes to their Mass since the 1960s, a shift some leaders warn could cause “ritual whiplash.”

The overhaul, which will become mandatory Nov. 27, is aimed at unifying the more than 1 billion Catholics worldwide with a translation that is as close as possible to the original Latin version. It allows for less independence and diversity of interpretation in a church that in recent decades has tried to retain more control over how Catholicism is defined.

Recent popes have emphasized orthodoxy and hierarchy, particularly in the West, where religious identity is increasingly fluid. Catholic hospitals and schools have been required to more clearly espouse church teachings, and Pope Benedict XVI has stressed the sole truth of Catholicism over other faiths, even declining this month to pray with Hindus, Jews and others at an interreligious event.

The new translation changes the majority of sentences in the Mass. The prayers and call-and-response dialogue between the priest and the congregation are different, transforming the dialogue that Catholics under 40 have used in church their entire lives. Some leaders warn that the shift could cause “ritual whiplash” among those accustomed to a worship script so familiar that most recite it from memory.

Reaction to the changes has been intense, in some ways fueling a Catholic culture war that began when the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s imposed far more sweeping changes designed to open up and modernize the church. Some traditionalists say the new translation of the ritual is richer and — because it’s less conversational — more mysterious and spiritual.

“At first I thought it was an affront, the Vatican coming down on us. But after thinking about it, I see it as something that will bring us all back toward the center,” said Emily Strand, 35, a former campus minister at the University of Dayton who has attended Mass regularly throughout her life. “Vatican II was an excuse for people to do whatever they wanted with the liturgy.”

But more modern Catholics, and some who are already disaffected, say the new language is an awkward imposition that will distance people from the church. Erie, Pa., Bishop Donald Trautman says that such words as “consubstantial” and “chalice” and a Jesus “born ineffably of the inviolate Virgin” won’t help Catholics get closer to God.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/ritual-whiplash-ahead-catholics-mass-liturgy-changing/2011/10/25/gIQAzcNRNM_story.html?hpid=z3&tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost

Offline GC

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #247 on: Oct 29, 2011 at 06:19 PM »
Catholics’ Mass liturgy changing; ‘ritual whiplash’ ahead?
By Michelle Boorstein,

English-speaking Catholics are bracing for the biggest changes to their Mass since the 1960s, a shift some leaders warn could cause “ritual whiplash.”

The overhaul, which will become mandatory Nov. 27, is aimed at unifying the more than 1 billion Catholics worldwide with a translation that is as close as possible to the original Latin version. It allows for less independence and diversity of interpretation in a church that in recent decades has tried to retain more control over how Catholicism is defined.

Recent popes have emphasized orthodoxy and hierarchy, particularly in the West, where religious identity is increasingly fluid. Catholic hospitals and schools have been required to more clearly espouse church teachings, and Pope Benedict XVI has stressed the sole truth of Catholicism over other faiths, even declining this month to pray with Hindus, Jews and others at an interreligious event.

The new translation changes the majority of sentences in the Mass. The prayers and call-and-response dialogue between the priest and the congregation are different, transforming the dialogue that Catholics under 40 have used in church their entire lives. Some leaders warn that the shift could cause “ritual whiplash” among those accustomed to a worship script so familiar that most recite it from memory.

Reaction to the changes has been intense, in some ways fueling a Catholic culture war that began when the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s imposed far more sweeping changes designed to open up and modernize the church. Some traditionalists say the new translation of the ritual is richer and — because it’s less conversational — more mysterious and spiritual.

“At first I thought it was an affront, the Vatican coming down on us. But after thinking about it, I see it as something that will bring us all back toward the center,” said Emily Strand, 35, a former campus minister at the University of Dayton who has attended Mass regularly throughout her life. “Vatican II was an excuse for people to do whatever they wanted with the liturgy.”

But more modern Catholics, and some who are already disaffected, say the new language is an awkward imposition that will distance people from the church. Erie, Pa., Bishop Donald Trautman says that such words as “consubstantial” and “chalice” and a Jesus “born ineffably of the inviolate Virgin” won’t help Catholics get closer to God.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/ritual-whiplash-ahead-catholics-mass-liturgy-changing/2011/10/25/gIQAzcNRNM_story.html?hpid=z3&tid=sm_twitter_washingtonpost

Aahh! Liberals and progressives, still living in the 60's. When will they all die? The winds are changing and the pendulum is swinging back: the ineffable beauty of worship, sense of the sacred and true Catholic identity are being revived and now they are afraid that their banal liturgies, on the spot products, they have created will soon die.

Afraid of the new translation? Just use LATIN.
« Last Edit: Oct 29, 2011 at 06:32 PM by GC »
Pro Deo et Patria

Offline sharkey360

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #248 on: Oct 31, 2011 at 06:56 AM »
What do you think about Catholic dictatorship emphasized by the guy in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnJi6SpzLo

Offline GC

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #249 on: Oct 31, 2011 at 08:04 AM »
What do you think about Catholic dictatorship emphasized by the guy in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnJi6SpzLo

I know most of you would disagree, but with rate the world is going, i think what he says is only common sense. Careful analysis of democracy one would see its flaw:
1. if majority are ignorant voters
2. if majority are self-centered voters who doesn't care about the common good as long as they have "freedom" and "liberty" to do what they want
3. unqualified are allowed to run for office, either in the legislature or executive. (By unqualified doesn't necessary equate to having no educational degrees, but skills)

Democracy then becomes mob rule and thus instead of building society, it actually destroys it. It is in this scenario that a BENEVOLENT dictatorship is a solution to stop the destruction of culture and society by promoting the COMMON GOOD and governing with COMMON SENSE. The problem is, we need to find the right person for the job.
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011 at 08:25 AM by GC »
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Offline leomarley

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #250 on: Oct 31, 2011 at 08:47 AM »
What do you think about Catholic dictatorship emphasized by the guy in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnJi6SpzLo

man, what a douche that guy is. even has a douche-y biebster haircut.

who is he to say what is moral and what is not? people like this are scary. they promote their own brand of morality much like Hitler was when the Nazis started to rise in Germany.

Offline leomarley

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #251 on: Oct 31, 2011 at 08:50 AM »
I know most of you would disagree, but with rate the world is going, i think what he says is only common sense. Careful analysis of democracy one would see its flaw:
1. if majority are ignorant voters
2. if majority are self-centered voters who doesn't care about the common good as long as they have "freedom" and "liberty" to do what they want
3. unqualified are allowed to run for office, either in the legislature or executive. (By unqualified doesn't necessary equate to having no educational degrees, but skills)

Democracy then becomes mob rule and thus instead of building society, it actually destroys it. It is in this scenario that a BENEVOLENT dictatorship is a solution to stop the destruction of culture and society by promoting the COMMON GOOD and governing with COMMON SENSE. The problem is, we need to find the right person for the job.

he's not only talking about dictatorship per se but more specifically a Catholic Dictatorship. i wouldn't wanna be around if that happens. a Catholic Dictatorship is a scary thought.
« Last Edit: Oct 31, 2011 at 08:52 AM by leomarley »

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #252 on: Oct 31, 2011 at 09:18 AM »
What do you think about Catholic dictatorship emphasized by the guy in this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSnJi6SpzLo

Hindi naman bago yan.

The world already had such a system:  The Catholic Monarchs (los Reyes Católicos) - Queen Isabella I and King Ferdinand II.

The result?  -- The Alhambra Decree and the Spanish Inquisition.



================================


he's not only talking about dictatorship per se but more specifically a Catholic Dictatorship. i wouldn't wanna be around if that happens. a Catholic Dictatorship is a scary thought.



« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2011 at 10:19 PM by barrister »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #253 on: Nov 01, 2011 at 05:09 PM »
Teka, Hebrew and Hebrew Aramic ang original language ng bible di ba?

Offline sharkey360

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #254 on: Nov 01, 2011 at 05:51 PM »
I know most of you would disagree, but with rate the world is going, i think what he says is only common sense. Careful analysis of democracy one would see its flaw:
1. if majority are ignorant voters
2. if majority are self-centered voters who doesn't care about the common good as long as they have "freedom" and "liberty" to do what they want
3. unqualified are allowed to run for office, either in the legislature or executive. (By unqualified doesn't necessary equate to having no educational degrees, but skills)

Democracy then becomes mob rule and thus instead of building society, it actually destroys it. It is in this scenario that a BENEVOLENT dictatorship is a solution to stop the destruction of culture and society by promoting the COMMON GOOD and governing with COMMON SENSE. The problem is, we need to find the right person for the job.

History shows that dictatorships often come with human rights violations, greed, theft and many other bad things. Even with religion at its very core, dictatorship will still come with abuses.

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #255 on: Nov 01, 2011 at 11:42 PM »
Teka, Hebrew and Hebrew Aramic ang original language ng bible di ba?

No, it's Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.

Old Testament - Almost entirely in Hebrew.  A few chapters in Ezra and Daniel and one verse in Jeremiah are in Aramaic.

New Testament - Entirely in Greek.
« Last Edit: Nov 01, 2011 at 11:45 PM by barrister »

Offline GC

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #256 on: Nov 02, 2011 at 09:58 AM »
History shows that dictatorships often come with human rights violations, greed, theft and many other bad things. Even with religion at its very core, dictatorship will still come with abuses.

The keyword is BENEVOLENT sir. :-)
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Offline sharkey360

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #257 on: Nov 02, 2011 at 10:47 AM »
The keyword is BENEVOLENT sir. :-)

Try using that against historical facts.

Offline sharkey360

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #258 on: Nov 02, 2011 at 10:52 AM »
man, what a douche that guy is. even has a douche-y biebster haircut.

who is he to say what is moral and what is not? people like this are scary. they promote their own brand of morality much like Hitler was when the Nazis started to rise in Germany.

Extremism is a sickness. Benevolent this and that. Impose this and that. Etc.

Offline sharkey360

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #259 on: Nov 02, 2011 at 06:56 PM »
Any comments about this?


Offline sharkey360

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #260 on: Nov 02, 2011 at 11:04 PM »

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #261 on: Nov 02, 2011 at 11:12 PM »
Any comments about this?




The artwork depicts the feeding of the multitudes.

1.  "The Feeding of the 5,000" is narrated in all four canonical gospels (Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:31-44, Luke 9:10-17 and John 6:5-15.  

When Jesus heard that John the Baptist had been killed, he went to a solitary place by boat, and the crowds followed him.  As evening approached, the disciples asked Jesus to send the crowds away, so they can go to the villages and buy themselves some food.  Jesus told the disciples to give them something to eat, but they only had five loaves of bread and two fish.

Jesus performed a miracle by feeding the 5,000 using only the five loaves and two fish. They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up twelve basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.

 
2.  Another incident, "The Feeding of the 4,000", is narrated in Mark 8:1-9 and Matthew 15:32-39.

A large crowd was following Jesus.  He called his disciples to him and said, "... they have already been with me three days and have nothing to eat. I do not want to send them away hungry, or they may collapse on the way."

His disciples, who only had seven loaves of bread and a few small fish, said: "Where could we get enough bread in this remote place to feed such a crowd?"

Jesus fed the 4,000 using only the seven loaves and few fish. They all ate and were satisfied, and the disciples picked up seven basketfuls of broken pieces that were left over.


========================



You can see clearly that this is not a depiction of socialism.

Yes, the multitudes were poor people.  But did Jesus feed them solely because they were poor?  

No.  Jesus fed them because they were in the wilderness.  They were so far away from the nearest village that they would likely faint on the way if they were to travel on foot to buy some food.

The bible does not advocate feeding the lazy.  In fact, it teaches the opposite.  In Thessalonians, Paul said:

7For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us. 10 For even when we were with you, we commanded you this: If anyone will not work, neither shall he eat. (2 Thess 3:7-10)

If you don't want to work, you shouldn't eat for free.  The rule applies not only to church members, but also to church leaders.  
« Last Edit: Nov 08, 2011 at 02:02 PM by barrister »

Offline bananabond

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #262 on: Nov 07, 2011 at 08:30 PM »
sir barister what are your thoughts on tithing? and how come you dont belong to a specific group or sect inspitw your profound knowledge in christianity?
« Last Edit: Nov 07, 2011 at 08:37 PM by bananabond »

Offline Nelson de Leon

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #263 on: Nov 07, 2011 at 09:56 PM »
sir barister what are your thoughts on tithing? and how come you dont belong to a specific group or sect inspitw your profound knowledge in christianity?

+1.  ;D

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #264 on: Nov 07, 2011 at 10:18 PM »
and how come you dont belong to a specific group or sect inspitw your profound knowledge in christianity?

If I find a doctrine I don't agree with, I don't join.  Every sect I studied always had some loopy doctrine, so I never joined any.


sir barister what are your thoughts on tithing?

The tithe was commanded to the ancient Israelites, not to Christians.

Today's pastors insist that tithes apply to Christians as well.  The reason is obvious --- tithes are a lot of money, that's why  ;).

Offline alistair

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #265 on: Nov 08, 2011 at 08:09 AM »
If I find a doctrine I don't agree with, I don't join.  Every sect I studied always had some loopy doctrine, so I never joined any.

Today's pastors insist that tithes apply to Christians as well.  The reason is obvious --- tithes are a lot of money, that's why  ;).
Combining the two statements above begs the question:

So how come you haven't formed your own Christian sect? I hear there's a lot of money to be made. ;)

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #266 on: Nov 08, 2011 at 11:09 AM »
So how come you haven't formed your own Christian sect? I hear there's a lot of money to be made. ;)

The thought has crossed my mind.  ;)

But I don't think I'm cut out to be a religious leader ... I'm too honest ...  :D

Offline RU9

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #267 on: Nov 08, 2011 at 12:49 PM »
The thought has crossed my mind.  ;)

But I don't think I'm cut out to be a religious leader ... I'm too honest ...  :D

What is the basis of your belief in the bible? Is it faith alone or is there a physical dimension?

Offline barrister

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #268 on: Nov 08, 2011 at 01:56 PM »
It's faith, of course.

I'm not one of those loonies who brag that they allegedly can prove that the bible is the Word of God.

Offline CMac

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Re: The Religion Thread
« Reply #269 on: Nov 08, 2011 at 02:13 PM »
But I don't think I'm cut out to be a religious leader ... I'm too honest ...  :D

i thought it's the complete opposite for lawyers?  ;D biro lang boss.