Topic: The Religion Thread

[tigkal]

Sure, but that's not the point.

The point is, it's circular reasoning to say, "man should believe in God because He is God."

Ah because proof of God is not yet established? I sometimes doubt if there is really a God as stated in the bible. But I also have experiences that there really is a God as defined by my experience.

A son believes and obeys his father because he is his father, not because he wants to have something he desires, or something he wants to avoid.This is my point. But we may have different viewpoints.

[indie boi]

"You should believe in the 'god of the Bible' because the Bible says he's the one true god."

[docelmo]

"You should believe in the 'god of the Bible' because the Bible says he's the one true god."

Sir,

In the same manner when you look at say your speakers and it was made by "Bowers & Wilkins" , would you believe now that your speaker is really a B & W ?

I believe because there are More reasons to believe in His existence than the opposing view!
Just to name a few…

The existence of the Universe:
We know it had a beginning, but how? Out of nothing, random chance, spontaneously or by something outside of the universe, eternal, infinitely intelligent....
Which is more plausible....Nothing created everything or Something created everything? (Ops OT na ito)
                  "Let there be Light" Bible written by non-scientists 3,000 years ago
                  "The Big bang theory" by scientists less than 100 years ago

Fine tuned Universe
Stephen Hawking has noted, "The laws of science, as we know them at present, contain many fundamental numbers, like the size of the electric charge of the electron and the ratio of the masses of the proton and the electron. ... The remarkable fact is that the values of these numbers seem to have been very finely adjusted to make possible the development of life."

Objective Moral values –
Our recognition that evil exists, confirms the existence of God! Because if God did not exist, there would no Good and Evil, No Laws, everything is permissible, no responsibility. no accountability. Without a "Lawgiver" that set the rules, there would be no basis to charge anyone of wrongdoing...

Evolution proves God exists-
Because all we see in evolution is what the Bible says: God created them after their own kind......microevolution! We have yet to see an actual living organism or fossil evidence of "gradual transition" from single-celled organism - invertebrates -vertebrates....missing links are not missing they just don’t exist.

[saintburaki]

OT:
it will be more confusing if you believe PROMETHEUS.
kasi dun pnakita na galing pala tayo sa ibang nilalang mula sa ibang planets.

kahit naman ano pinaniniwalaan mo...
mas mahalaga na meron kang pinaniniwalaan kesa sa wala.

[barrister]

OT:
it will be more confusing if you believe PROMETHEUS.
kasi dun pnakita na galing pala tayo sa ibang nilalang mula sa ibang planets.

Marami namang naniniwala na descendant tayo ng aliens.  

Manood ka lang ng Ancient Aliens sa cable TV, baka maniwala ka na rin...

kahit naman ano pinaniniwalaan mo...
mas mahalaga na meron kang pinaniniwalaan kesa sa wala.

Ewan ko lang sir.  Baka hindi mo pa narinig kung gaanong ka weirdo ang ibang paniniwala.

For example, isang grupo na naniniwalang nanggaling tayo sa aliens ay ang "Heaven's Gate," isang California-based UFO religion.  Their leader said the Earth was about to be "recycled," so they had to evacuate by committing suicide so that their souls can board a spaceship that was about to pick them up from earth.  In 1997, the leader and 38 followers committed mass suicide.

Kahit ano paniwalaan mo, OK lang?  Kung minsan, mas mabuti pang wala kang pinapaniwalaan.

[oweidah]

pag relihiyon ang pinag-usapan eto lagi ang naalala ko>



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1003355,00.html

sa isang area- judaism's wailing wall sa ibaba, temple mount sa itaas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount  at via crucis way of the cross sa paligid. pero walang pinagkasunduan haaaay

religion unites or divides? war o peace ? 

[ATJr.]

maraming mga tao na sobrang ang dudunong sa mundo......if only they obeyed the one commandment of my GOD, those things would not have come to pass.....

pero siguro boring naman.....but people will always be people.....

[oweidah]

ah basta, ang Diyos ko ang kaisa-isang Diyos! lahat kayo masusunog sa impyerno.

sira-ulo! ang Diyos ko lang ang dapat sambahin!

resulta = giyera 

[barrister]

maraming mga tao na sobrang ang dudunong sa mundo......

Agree ako diyan  

ah basta, ang Diyos ko ang kaisa-isang Diyos! lahat kayo masusunog sa impyerno.

sira-ulo! ang Diyos ko lang ang dapat sambahin!

resulta = giyera  

Korek!

if only they obeyed the one commandment of my GOD, those things would not have come to pass.....

Each side is saying the same thing.

Ano resulta?  E di giyera nga...  

  

[devlin_waugh]

Priest Defends Sex Abusers

A well-known Catholic priest who hosts a weekly religious television show said in an interview this week that child sex abusers are often seduced by teenage boys and should not go to jail on a first offense

http://abcnews.go.com/US/catholic-priest-rev-benedict-groeschel-defends-child-sex/story?id=17114892#.UEFlGcGUosJ

[RU9]

Priest apologizes after sex abuse comments draw ire
By Laura Koran, CNN

(CNN) - A prominent Catholic friar has apologized for saying that child victims of sex abuse may at times bear some of the responsibility for the attacks because they can seduce their assailants, and that first-time sex offenders should not receive jail time.

"I did not intend to blame the victim," the Rev. Benedict Groeschel, of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, said Thursday. "A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible."



http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/31/priest-apologizes-after-sex-abuse-comments-draw-ire/

[ATJr.]

priests are people too.....

[leomarley]

Priest Defends Sex Abusers

A well-known Catholic priest who hosts a weekly religious television show said in an interview this week that child sex abusers are often seduced by teenage boys and should not go to jail on a first offense

http://abcnews.go.com/US/catholic-priest-rev-benedict-groeschel-defends-child-sex/story?id=17114892#.UEFlGcGUosJ

based ba sa experience yan?

[Timithekid]

priests are people too.....

The same can be said of lawyers, doctors, etc... What i mean is aren't priests supposed to be held in higher regard because they are taught to have more control?  To be able to try and resist temptaion more than a lay person?

I would expect that soldiers, when subjected to torture would be able to hold out more compared to an ordinary person...just a thought...

[Klaus Weasley]

priests are people too.....

Yes. Personally, I don't think the percentage of priests molesting children is all that much higher than any other profession but in most other professions, if you get caught, you get arrested. In the Church, unfortunately, they only get transferred and their crimes covered up which only makes it worse. Add to that the fact that priests are supposed to be celibate men of God who, next to your parents, are people you're SUPPOSED to trust, makes it 100x worse.

GC and bass_nut are oddly silent every time this subject comes up.

[Nelson de Leon]

Mabigat talaga ang responsibility ng isang church leader. Well ideally, you are suppose to put your trust in God. Church leaders are there to guide the members. Pero ang responsibility din ng members is to croos reference it sa bible. Kung tama naman, then you can trust the leader.

[barrister]

Child molestation --- Tao lang.  It's not surprising that some pedophiles will want to join the priesthood.  Prosecute offenders; install safeguards to prevent it.

Official cover-up of the child molestation --- "Tao lang" pa rin ang katuwiran?  

[ATJr.]

we can not escape our humanity....these priests know that what they do is wrong but they do it anyway.....they are sick.......no justification for wrongdoings, they need to get punished....they need to get help....

[Nelson de Leon]

we can not escape our humanity....these priests know that what they do is wrong but they do it anyway.....they are sick.......no justification for wrongdoings, they need to get punished....they need to get help....

Bawal kasing mag-asawa ang priest. Celebacy. But AFAIK, celebacy is a spiritual gift from God. You do not choose it.

[devlin_waugh]

^it's a vow...supposedly stroger than a promise...not too be taken lightly

by your logic a priest can break that vow and still engage in worldly acts because it's just a matter of non-acceptance of a "gift"

thus a priest can engage in sex arbitrarily depending on his fidelity to his vow...

[Nelson de Leon]

^it's a vow...supposedly stroger than a promise...not too be taken lightly

by your logic a priest can break that vow and still engage in worldly acts because it's just a matter of non-acceptance of a "gift"

thus a priest can engage in sex arbitrarily depending on his fidelity to his vow...

Nope. What i meant was, what is the logic behind the vow. It's not about breaking the vow.

[Dilbert7]

we can not escape our humanity....these priests know that what they do is wrong but they do it anyway.....they are sick.......no justification for wrongdoings, they need to get punished....they need to get help....

what makes insult a graver injury is that the religious hierarchy seemed not doing anything, and at worst, seems like defending / covering up for the sickness (mental) of the offender of their orders.

But of course, what's new. These occurrences have happened in the past - did they apologized or even admitted that? What do you expect today? Are we so naive?

[barrister]

.....they are sick.......no justification for wrongdoings, they need to get punished....they need to get help....

How about a cover-up and a transfer to a new parish?  



================================



"There is a big conference of Catholic Bishops in Dallas. Well this is great for the city, it brings in about $12 million in hush money." (David Letterman)

"The big Vatican summit wrapped up, closing ceremonies were Harry Connick Jr. The Vatican is taking a tough stand now --- three strikes and you're transferred." (David Letterman)

[Klaus Weasley]

It's hilarious that the Vatican is usually quick to dismiss priests who have had consensual affairs with women and/or fathered a child out of wedlock. But when it comes to molesting children, a much GRAVER sin IMO, they don't act as quickly.

[oweidah]

Priest apologizes after sex abuse comments draw ire
By Laura Koran, CNN

(CNN) - A prominent Catholic friar has apologized for saying that child victims of sex abuse may at times bear some of the responsibility for the attacks because they can seduce their assailants, and that first-time sex offenders should not receive jail time.

"I did not intend to blame the victim," the Rev. Benedict Groeschel, of the Franciscan Friars of the Renewal, said Thursday. "A priest (or anyone else) who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible."



http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/31/priest-apologizes-after-sex-abuse-comments-draw-ire/

nice 'name' of writer 

[barrister]

Man who 'beat up priest for molesting him when he was seven'
sobs as he recounts the horrific abuse - and says he is looking
forward to facing attacker in court
By Lydia Warren
PUBLISHED: 20:48 GMT, 18 June 2012 | UPDATED: 21:00 GMT, 18 June 2012

...Explaining why he pummeled Father Jerold Lindner in May 2010, leaving him with bruises and in need of stitches, Lynch told the San Jose Mercury News: 'I did everything I could do under the law.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161229/Will-Lynch-trial-Man-beat-priest-molesting-seven-recounts-abuse.html


Trial begins for man who beat priest he says molested him
William Lynch is accused of assaulting Father Jerold Lindner
at the priest's retirement home. Lynch says the priest sexually
assaulted him when he was 7.
June 21, 2012|By Maria L. La Ganga, Los Angeles Times

...More than a dozen men and women have accused Lindner of molesting them through the years — including his sister, nieces and nephew. The Catholic Church has settled three cases brought against him, according to a Jesuit spokesman. But the 67-year-old has never faced charges because the statute of limitations for the alleged abuse had run out.

Now Lynch has been charged with felony assault and elder abuse, facing up to four years in prison. He turned down a plea agreement, he said in an interview as his trial began here Wednesday, because "I realized it was the only way I could get Father Lindner in court and to have an opportunity to possibly find some justice that way."

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/21/local/la-me-0621-priest-beating-20120621


Alleged rape victim acquitted in priest assault
Man who alleged priest molested him as a boy is cleared of 2 felonies
Kevin Fagan
Updated 11:08 p.m., Thursday, July 5, 2012

William Lynch never disputed that he had punched a retired Catholic priest in an old folks home in Los Gatos. He said the cleric raped him nearly four decades ago, that he had simply snapped when he demanded an admission of guilt. He didn't expect a jury to overlook the letter of the law and let him go.

But Thursday, in a verdict that drew gasps of astonishment in a San Jose courtroom, the jury said the 44-year-old Lynch was not guilty of felony assault and elder abuse in the 2010 attack on Jerold Lindner, 67.

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Alleged-rape-victim-acquitted-in-priest-assault-3686581.php#ixzz25Jtz1mhq

[sharkey360]

In final interview, Cardinal says church ‘200 years out of date’

The former archbishop of Milan and papal candidate Cardinal Carlo Maria Martini said the Catholic Church is "200 years out of date" in his final interview before his death, published on Saturday.
 
Martini, once favored by Vatican progressives to succeed Pope John Paul II and a prominent voice in the church until his death at the age of 85 on Friday, gave a scathing portrayal of a pompous and bureaucratic church failing to move with the times.
 
"Our culture has aged, our churches are big and empty and the church bureaucracy rises up, our rituals and our cassocks are pompous," Martini said in the interview published in Italian daily Corriere della Sera.
 
"The Church must admit its mistakes and begin a radical change, starting from the pope and the bishops. The pedophilia scandals oblige us to take a journey of transformation," he said in the interview.
 
In the last decade the Church has been accused of failing to fully address a series of child abuse scandals which have undermined its status as a moral arbiter, though it has paid many millions in compensation settlements worldwide.
 
Martini, famous for comments that the use of condoms could be acceptable in some cases, told interviewers the Church should open up to new kinds of families or risk losing its flock.
 
"A woman is abandoned by her husband and finds a new companion to look after her and her children. A second love succeeds. If this family is discriminated against, not just the mother will be cut off but also her children."
 
In this way "the Church loses the future generation", Martini said in the interview, made a fortnight before he died. The Vatican opposes divorce and forbids contraception in favor of fidelity within marriage and abstinence without.
 
A liberal voice in the church, Martini's chances of becoming pope were damaged when he revealed he was suffering from a rare form of Parkinson's disease and he retired in 2002.
 
Pope John Paul II was instead succeeded in 2005 by Pope Benedict XVI, a hero of Catholic conservatives who is known by such critical epithets as "God's rottweiler" because of his stern stand on theological issues.
 
Martini's final message to Pope Benedict was to begin a shake up of the Catholic Church without delay.
 
"The church is 200 years out of date. Why don't we rouse ourselves? Are we afraid?"
 
Martini was much loved and thousands paid their respects at his coffin in Milan cathedral on Saturday.

http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/272197/news/world/in-final-interview-cardinal-says-church-200-years-out-of-date

[rascal101]

Yes. Personally, I don't think the percentage of priests molesting children is all that much higher than any other profession but in most other professions, if you get caught, you get arrested. In the Church, unfortunately, they only get transferred and their crimes covered up which only makes it worse. Add to that the fact that priests are supposed to be celibate men of God who, next to your parents, are people you're SUPPOSED to trust, makes it 100x worse.

GC and bass_nut are oddly silent every time this subject comes up.

Actually, this item has been repeated over and over and both GC and bass_nut have provided more than adequate responses.

[RU9]

US monsignor imprisoned for covering up child sex abuse
BY DAVE WARNER July 25, 2012 6:59am

PHILADELPHIA - Monsignor William Lynn, the highest-ranking clergyman convicted in the U.S. Roman Catholic Church scandal, was sentenced on Tuesday to up to six years in prison for covering up child sex abuse by priests in Philadelphia.
 
Judge M. Teresa Sarmina told Lynn, 61, the former secretary of the clergy for the Philadelphia Archdiocese, that he protected "monsters in clerical garb who molested children."

Read more...

 http://www.gmanetwork.com/news/story/266628/news/world/us-monsignor-imprisoned-for-covering-up-child-sex-abuse

[devlin_waugh]

The Devil's in the deterrent



http://www.economist.com/node/21558214?fsrc=scn/fb/wl/bl/dc/devilsinthedeterrent