Topic: The Religion Thread

[barrister]

τεταγμένοι (tetagmenoi) — 1 Occurrence
Acts 13:48 V-RPM/P-NMP
GRK: ὅσοι ἦσαν τεταγμένοι εἰς ζωὴν
NAS: as had been appointed to eternal
KJV: as many as were ordained to eternal
INT: as many as were appointed to life

Appointed sir..  http://biblehub.com/greek/tetagmenoi_5021.htm

Those are the different bible versions.
 
Where is the definition of tetagmenoi?
 
 

[pTrader]

Tama. 
 
Those who love Him have been called.  No predestination.

Siguro basahin mo yung book of Romans at Ephesians from first to the last chapter.. para maintindihan mo yung predestination na tinatawag..


work based salvation yung in-insist mo.. inde grace based salavation..

[pTrader]

Those are the different bible versions.
 
Where is the definition of tetagmenoi?

Para makatulog ka:


GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.

at isang tanong:

Sino yung nag prepared sa kanila?

[barrister]

Para makatulog ka:


GOD'S WORD® Translation
The people who were not Jews were pleased with what they heard and praised the Lord's word. Everyone who had been prepared for everlasting life believed.

Still a bible version.
 
Where is the definition?  Mahirap i-google?
 
The root word is tasso.  If tasso becomes the middle voice tetagmenoi, what would it mean?
 

[barrister]

please read romans 9 carefully..

God is the one who determines or call His people..

Romans 9:25As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;

and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”i

 
Tama. God is the one who determines.
 
The Israelites thought they were predestined to salvation simply because they were descendants of Abraham.
 
Romans 9 teaches that their notion of predestination was wrong, because God will choose whom He wants.  Therefore, God has a right to reject Israel if He wants.
 
That's why Esau was firstborn, yet Jacob was elected, because God is not limited to any rules of heredity.  God is sovereign and will choose whom he wants.
 
Jacob was elected to go to heaven? 
 
No.  Jacob's line was elected as the ascendant of Jesus.  It is about the role of Israel as a nation in God's plan, not about individual salvation.
 
Romans 9 misinterpreted to support predestination -- that's Calvinism.

[bumblebee]

Whatever happened to whoever believes in him should not perish?

[pTrader]

Tagalog na po yung nasa baba.  Ang Dios po ang humihirang kahit inde pa ho ipinapanganak yung tao.


11Sapagka't ang mga anak nang hindi pa ipinanganganak, at hindi pa nagsisigawa ng anomang mabuti o masama, upang ang layon ng Dios ay mamalagi alinsunod sa pagkahirang, na hindi sa mga gawa, kundi doon sa tumatawag

6Datapuwa't hindi sa ang salita ng Dios ay nauwi sa wala. Sapagka't hindi ang lahat ng buhat sa Israel ay mga taga Israel: 7Ni sapagka't sila'y binhi ni Abraham, ay mga anak na silang lahat: kundi, Kay Isaac tatawagin ang iyong binhi. 8Sa makatuwid, ay hindi mga anak sa laman ang mga anak ng Dios: kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi. 9Sapagka't ito ang salita ng pangako, Ayon sa panahong ito'y paririto ako, at magkakaroon si Sara ng isang anak na lalake. 10At hindi lamang gayon; kundi nang maipaglihi na ni Rebeca sa pamamagitan ng isa, ito nga'y ng ating ama na si Isaac- 11Sapagka't ang mga anak nang hindi pa ipinanganganak, at hindi pa nagsisigawa ng anomang mabuti o masama, upang ang layon ng Dios ay mamalagi alinsunod sa pagkahirang, na hindi sa mga gawa, kundi doon sa tumatawag, 12Ay sinabi sa kaniya, Ang panganay ay maglilingkod sa bunso. 13Gaya ng nasusulat, Si Jacob ay inibig ko, datapuwa't si Esau ay aking kinapootan.

 
Tama. God is the one who determines.
 
The Israelites thought they were predestined to salvation simply because they were descendants of Abraham.

mali po ito, eto ang nasa Bibliya:

Pansinin nyo po yung salitang "kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi."
 
 7Ni sapagka't sila'y binhi ni Abraham, ay mga anak na silang lahat: kundi, Kay Isaac tatawagin ang iyong binhi. 8Sa makatuwid, ay hindi mga anak sa laman ang mga anak ng Dios: kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi.

Romans 9 teaches that their notion of predestination was wrong, because God will choose whom He wants.  Therefore, God has a right to reject Israel if He wants.
 
That's why Esau was firstborn, yet Jacob was elected, because God is not limited to any rules of heredity.  God is sovereign and will choose whom he wants.
 
Jacob was elected to go to heaven? 
 
No.  Jacob's line was elected as the ascendant of Jesus.  It is about the role of Israel as a nation in God's plan, not about individual salvation.
 
Romans 9 misinterpreted to support predestination -- that's Calvinism.

wala rin po ito, eto ang nasa Bibliya:

Inde pa po nai-papanganak at hindi pa po nagsisigawa nag anomang mabuti o masama yung mga hinirang.


11Sapagka't ang mga anak nang hindi pa ipinanganganak, at hindi pa nagsisigawa ng anomang mabuti o masama, upang ang layon ng Dios ay mamalagi alinsunod sa pagkahirang, na hindi sa mga gawa, kundi doon sa tumatawag,

No.  Jacob's line was elected as the ascendant of Jesus.  It is about the role of Israel as a nation in God's plan, not about individual salvation.

mali po ito:

Basahin po ninyo ang nasa baba, inde naman kay Jacob kundi kay Isaac

6Datapuwa't hindi sa ang salita ng Dios ay nauwi sa wala. Sapagka't hindi ang lahat ng buhat sa Israel ay mga taga Israel: 7Ni sapagka't sila'y binhi ni Abraham, ay mga anak na silang lahat: kundi, Kay Isaac tatawagin ang iyong binhi.

[barrister]

Sir pTrader, I know that we will never agree on this issue, so just treat this discussion as a presentation of our respective beliefs for the benefit of those interested in learning about the two sides.
 
Kung minsan may sarcasm din ako, but know that it's just a debating style, nothing more.
 
Sinisingitan talaga ng sarcasm yon to give the impression of confidence --- that you're very sure of what you're saying. Pero hindi rin puwedeng sobra ang sarcasm, because that will give the impression of desperation, which is not good for the audience's impression.
 
So yung konting sarcasm ko, debating techniques lang yon, it's nothing personal.
 
Tanungin mo si sir dpogs, may konting asaran din kami, but in the end, we agree that we will not be able to convince each other. Basta pareho kaming naniniwala sa Diyos, pareho kaming naniniwala sa bibliya. Yung differences in doctrine, those are small details.
 

==================================
 

Tagalog na po yung nasa baba. Ang Dios po ang humihirang kahit inde pa ho ipinapanganak yung tao.


11Sapagka't ang mga anak nang hindi pa ipinanganganak, at hindi pa nagsisigawa ng anomang mabuti o masama, upang ang layon ng Dios ay mamalagi alinsunod sa pagkahirang, na hindi sa mga gawa, kundi doon sa tumatawag

Ang Diyos ang humihirang kahit hindi pa pinanganganak.
 
Humihirang ng ano? Humihirang ng magiging lahi ng Israel.
 
Romans 9 shows us God's choices as to the forefathers or "patriarchs" of the nation Israel --- Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 
The traditional choice should have been Ishmael, yet God chose Isaac to receive the blessing of Abraham, to become the patriarch of the chosen nation from which Jesus would come.
 
Esau the firstborn should have been the traditional choice, yet God chose Jacob over Esau to continue the family line to Jesus.
 
In both of these cases, God chose the second-born over the firstborn. Why was Jacob given the right? Because of what Jacob had done? No, because God is sovereign and will choose whom he wants.
 
 

mali po ito, eto ang nasa Bibliya:

Pansinin nyo po yung salitang "kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi."

7Ni sapagka't sila'y binhi ni Abraham, ay mga anak na silang lahat: kundi, Kay Isaac tatawagin ang iyong binhi. 8Sa makatuwid, ay hindi mga anak sa laman ang mga anak ng Dios: kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi.

 
Pansinin din ang salitang "binhi."
 
Ano daw yung binhi? E di binhi ng lahing israel.
 
Kay Isaac tatawagin ang iyong binhi. --- Meaning, hindi kay Ishmael, kahit panganay si Ishmael.
 
8Sa makatuwid, ay hindi mga anak sa laman ang mga anak ng Dios: kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi. --- Si Isaac na hindi panganay ang pinili ng Diyos, kasi hindi batay sa lahi ng laman ang mga anak ng Diyos.
 
E di hindi elect sa langit yan. Ang sinasabing elect ay yung elect na magiging lahi ng Israel.
 
Lahi ng ligtas sa langit?  Hindi. Lahi ng pagmumulan ni Hesus na tagapagligtas.  Kung ligtas na, bakit kailangan pa ng darating na tagapagligtas?
 
Pag member ka ba ng lahing Israel, siguradong ligtas ka na? Hindi.
 
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. (Rom. 9:30-32)
 
Kita mo na. Israel was the chosen nation -- the elect. Yet they stumbled and did not attain their goal. The Gentiles, who were not part of the Israel nation, obtained righteousness by faith.
 
That's the point of Isaac and Jacob.
 
Dapat si Ishmael, but God chose Isaac. Dapat si Esau, but God chose Jacob.
 
Jacob was chosen over Esau before he was born. Chosen, yes. But chosen for what?
 
Not chosen for eternal salvation or damnation, but chosen in the plan of the Messianic and Israelite blood lines.
 
 
===================================
 
 
Next, I will discuss the entire Romans 9-11, so that the Calvinist misinterpretation will stand out even more clearly.

[pTrader]

Sir pTrader, I know that we will never agree on this issue, so just treat this discussion as a presentation of our respective beliefs for the benefit of those interested in learning about the two sides.
 
Kung minsan may sarcasm din ako, but know that it's just a debating style, nothing more.
 
Sinisingitan talaga ng sarcasm yon to give the impression of confidence --- that you're very sure of what you're saying. Pero hindi rin puwedeng sobra ang sarcasm, because that will give the impression of desperation, which is not good for the audience's impression.
 
So yung konting sarcasm ko, debating techniques lang yon, it's nothing personal.
 
Tanungin mo si sir dpogs, may konting asaran din kami, but in the end, we agree that we will not be able to convince each other. Basta pareho kaming naniniwala sa Diyos, pareho kaming naniniwala sa bibliya. Yung differences in doctrine, those are small details.
 

==================================
 
 
Ang Diyos ang humihirang kahit hindi pa pinanganganak.
 
Humihirang ng ano? Humihirang ng magiging lahi ng Israel.
 
Romans 9 shows us God's choices as to the forefathers or "patriarchs" of the nation Israel --- Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
 
The traditional choice should have been Ishmael, yet God chose Isaac to receive the blessing of Abraham, to become the patriarch of the chosen nation from which Jesus would come.
 
Esau the firstborn should have been the traditional choice, yet God chose Jacob over Esau to continue the family line to Jesus.
 
In both of these cases, God chose the second-born over the firstborn. Why was Jacob given the right? Because of what Jacob had done? No, because God is sovereign and will choose whom he wants.
 
 
 
Pansinin din ang salitang "binhi."
 
Ano daw yung binhi? E di binhi ng lahing israel.
 
Kay Isaac tatawagin ang iyong binhi. --- Meaning, hindi kay Ishmael, kahit panganay si Ishmael.
 
8Sa makatuwid, ay hindi mga anak sa laman ang mga anak ng Dios: kundi ang mga anak sa pangako'y siyang ibibilang na isang binhi. --- Si Isaac na hindi panganay ang pinili ng Diyos, kasi hindi batay sa lahi ng laman ang mga anak ng Diyos.
 
E di hindi elect sa langit yan. Ang sinasabing elect ay yung elect na magiging lahi ng Israel.
 
Lahi ng ligtas sa langit?  Hindi. Lahi ng pagmumulan ni Hesus na tagapagligtas.  Kung ligtas na, bakit kailangan pa ng darating na tagapagligtas?
 
Pag member ka ba ng lahing Israel, siguradong ligtas ka na? Hindi.
 
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. (Rom. 9:30-32)
 
Kita mo na. Israel was the chosen nation -- the elect. Yet they stumbled and did not attain their goal. The Gentiles, who were not part of the Israel nation, obtained righteousness by faith.
 
That's the point of Isaac and Jacob.
 
Dapat si Ishmael, but God chose Isaac. Dapat si Esau, but God chose Jacob.
 
Jacob was chosen over Esau before he was born. Chosen, yes. But chosen for what?
 
Not chosen for eternal salvation or damnation, but chosen in the plan of the Messianic and Israelite blood lines.
 
 
===================================
 
 
Next, I will discuss the entire Romans 9-11, so that the Calvinist misinterpretation will stand out even more clearly.

Sir ok lang, I do respect you sir.. exposition itong ginagawa natin, we can learn from each other.. sa ganitong discussion may both side, bahala na rin yung bumabasa at tumimbang ng pinag-uusapan...

Gaya ng nasabi:

The LORD works out everything to its proper end-- even the wicked for a day of disaster.

there is a proper end also in this discussion..

[barrister]

Ay salamat at ayos lang sa yo sir.  Medyo worried lang ako na baka minamasama mo.

Google muna ako para sa Romans 9-11 presentation ko.  Medyo pahinga, pinagod mo ko sir sa posts mo kahapon, hindi ako makahabol sa sunod-sunod na sitas... 

[barrister]

Here are links to Romans 9-11:
 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9&version=NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11&version=NIV
 
Romans 9 is about Israel's past; 10, its present (during the time of Paul); 11, its future.
 
Chapters 1-5: The message of the Gospel is salvation from the penalty of sin.
Chapters 6-8: Christ's death and resurrection gives us salvation from sin.
 
Most of the Jews rejected the gospel.  Why? Because the implication is that if all are saved by faith in Christ even if they are not part of the Israel nation, then it means God turned His back on His promise to Israel.
 
Israel is God's chosen people over all others.  Now God also chooses others?
 
That's the topic of Romans 9-11.
 
 
=================================
 
 
Let's start with Romans 9:
 
Verses 1-5: Paul is saddened for his fellow Jews.  Israel is God's chosen nation, pero parang hindi na "chosen" ngayon.  What happened to God's word?
 
Verses 6-9:

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
 
Clearly, the topic is about descendants and bloodlines.
 
Pero hindi daw basta lahi iyon.  As proof, Paul cites Isaac and Jacob.

8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (Rom. 9:8-13)

Verses 8-9 - the first example.  Kung bloodline lang ang tinitignan, bakit daw si Isaac ang pinili na pupuntahan ng bloodline, samantalang hindi naman siya ang panganay ni Abraham?   
 
Hindi physical na lahi ang tinitignan, kundi yung children of the promise. 
 
Bakit si Isaac?  Kasi siya ang child of promise.
 
Verses 10-12 - the second example --- bakit si Esau, firstborn, pero si Jacob na second-born ang pinili?
 
Hindi dahil may ginawang masama si Esau kaya nawalan ng birthright.  Pinili ng Diyos si Jacob even before he was born --- that is, not because Jacob did anything that deserved a reward. Before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls.
 
Hindi raw dumedepende sa ginawa ni Jacob. Dumedepende yon sa gusto ng Diyos

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. (Rom. 9:14-16)
 
It depends on God's choice, not human choice.

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
 
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
 
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? (Rom. 9:17-24)

If God wants to show mercy on the Gentiles, you have no right to contradict God. 
 
If God wants to call from the Jews and from the Gentiles, you have no right to contradict Him.
 
As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”
 
26 and, “In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’” (Rom. 9:25-26)

Israel, the chosen people. Yet God also chose the Gentiles who were not originally chosen.   
 
That's what the verses mean.  Even if the Gentiles were not the original chosen, they will still be chosen ---I will call them my people who are not my people.
 
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.” (Rom. 9:30-33)
 
Why did God choose the Gentiles and reject Israel?
 
Because Israel pursued the law rather than righteousness; while the Gentiles obtained righteousness by faith.
 
Was Israel predestined to eternal salvation?  No.  God will choose whom he wants.  As evidence, Paul pointed to Isaac and Jacob as proof that your bloodline is no guarantee.
 
That is the meaning of "elect."  The topic is about Israel's past --- the bloodline that resulted into the nation of Israel.  Jacob is proof that God can elect the second-born over the firstborn even before their birth.  Elect for what?  Elected to be the patriarch of the bloodline from which Jesus would be born.  Not elect as predestined to eternal salvation.
 
If God chose Gentiles, God has the right to do that because God can choose whom he wants.  But did God choose the Gentiles for no good reason other than this absolute right to choose anyone? 
 
No.  God chose the Gentiles because they chose righteousness by faith.  What saved the Gentiles, predestination from the beginning of time?  No. It was their faith that saved them.
 
What happens to the Jews now?  That question is answered in the next chapters.     

[pTrader]

Here are links to Romans 9-11:
 
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9&version=NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+10&version=NIV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11&version=NIV
 
Romans 9 is about Israel's past; 10, its present (during the time of Paul); 11, its future.
 
Chapters 1-5: The message of the Gospel is salvation from the penalty of sin.
Chapters 6-8: Christ's death and resurrection gives us salvation from sin.
 
Most of the Jews rejected the gospel.  Why? Because the implication is that if all are saved by faith in Christ even if they are not part of the Israel nation, then it means God turned His back on His promise to Israel.
 
Israel is God's chosen people over all others.  Now God also chooses others?
 
That's the topic of Romans 9-11.
 
 
=================================
 
 
Let's start with Romans 9:
 
Verses 1-5: Paul is saddened for his fellow Jews.  Israel is God's chosen nation, pero parang hindi na "chosen" ngayon.  What happened to God's word?
 
Verses 6-9:

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
 
Clearly, the topic is about descendants and bloodlines.
 
Pero hindi daw basta lahi iyon.  As proof, Paul cites Isaac and Jacob.

8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (Rom. 9:8-13)

Verses 8-9 - the first example.  Kung bloodline lang ang tinitignan, bakit daw si Isaac ang pinili na pupuntahan ng bloodline, samantalang hindi naman siya ang panganay ni Abraham?   
 
Hindi physical na lahi ang tinitignan, kundi yung children of the promise. 
 
Bakit si Isaac?  Kasi siya ang child of promise.
 
Verses 10-12 - the second example --- bakit si Esau, firstborn, pero si Jacob na second-born ang pinili?
 
Hindi dahil may ginawang masama si Esau kaya nawalan ng birthright.  Pinili ng Diyos si Jacob even before he was born --- that is, not because Jacob did anything that deserved a reward. Before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: not by works but by him who calls.
 
Hindi raw dumedepende sa ginawa ni Jacob. Dumedepende yon sa gusto ng Diyos

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. (Rom. 9:14-16)
 
It depends on God's choice, not human choice.

17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
 
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use?
 
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? (Rom. 9:17-24)

If God wants to show mercy on the Gentiles, you have no right to contradict God. 
 
If God wants to call from the Jews and from the Gentiles, you have no right to contradict Him.
 
As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people; and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”
 
26 and, “In the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’” (Rom. 9:25-26)

Israel, the chosen people. Yet God also chose the Gentiles who were not originally chosen.   
 
That's what the verses mean.  Even if the Gentiles were not the original chosen, they will still be chosen ---I will call them my people who are not my people.
 
30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:

“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.” (Rom. 9:30-33)
 
Why did God choose the Gentiles and reject Israel?
 
Because Israel pursued the law rather than righteousness; while the Gentiles obtained righteousness by faith.
 
Was Israel predestined to eternal salvation?  No.  God will choose whom he wants.  As evidence, Paul pointed to Isaac and Jacob as proof that your bloodline is no guarantee.
 
That is the meaning of "elect."  The topic is about Israel's past --- the bloodline that resulted into the nation of Israel.  Jacob is proof that God can elect the second-born over the firstborn even before their birth.  Elect for what?  Elected to be the patriarch of the bloodline from which Jesus would be born.  Not elect as predestined to eternal salvation.
 
If God chose Gentiles, God has the right to do that because God can choose whom he wants.  But did God choose the Gentiles for no good reason other than this absolute right to choose anyone? 
 
No.  God chose the Gentiles because they chose righteousness by faith.  What saved the Gentiles, predestination from the beginning of time?  No. It was their faith that saved them.
 
What happens to the Jews now?  That question is answered in the next chapters.     

In other words, GOD is the one choosing people who are His. Election is not based on merit or works or bloodline. It is based on God's grace.

Election is purely God and God alone, so yung maliligtas yung mga hinirang niya.

[barrister]

Romans 10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010
 
Can Israel still be saved?  Romans 10 explains.
 
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
 
Christ is the answer.  Believe in Christ and you will be saved.
 
Only the Jews or only the Gentiles?  No.  It's for everyone who believes.
 
Only for those who were individually predestined since the beginning of time?  No, it's for everyone who believes.  The requirement is your faith, not your predestination.
 
 
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
 
There is no difference between Jew and Gentile.  Everyone can be saved.
 
What does the Jew have to do?  Believe in Christ.  What does the Gentile have to do?  Believe in Christ.  No difference.
 
Sa Calvinism, what do you have to do?  Nothing.  You're predestined to heaven, or you're predestined to hell.  There's nothing you can do about it.
 
Sa Calvinism, does eveyone have a chance at salvation?  No. 
 
Calvinism believes in Limited Atonement --- Christ died to save His people from sin.  And who are "His people"?  Those whom God elected from the beginning of time.  If you are not a member of the elect chosen since the beginning of time, you have no chance at salvation, no matter what you do.
 
 
 
==================================

 
If chapter 9 took us back to Israel's past (hereditary bloodlines), chapter 10 now ends with Israel's present.  What is the condition of Israel?  They are disobedient:
 
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
 
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
 
20 And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
 
21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

Many Jews rejected the good news of Christ.  The Gentiles have no understanding of Jewish law, yet they were given salvation.
 
Why were Gentiles given salvation?  Because of their faith in Christ.  Can the Jews still be saved?  Yes, if they have faith in Christ.
 
Therefore, faith in Christ is the key, not predestination.

[barrister]

Chapter 11, our final chapter: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11
 
Now we go to Israel's future.
 
Members of the Israelite nation still have a chance:
 
I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
 
Originally, God's people were the Israelite nation.  God foreknew Israel as the nation that was to be part of His plan for salvation, but the individual Israelites were not predestined to heaven.
 
But they were disobedient, so they were cut off. 
 
Cut off, because they were not predestined to eternal salvation.  If God's people were predestined to eternal salvation, then they could not have been cut off.  But they were cut off because of their disobedience.
 
Therefore, it is their obedience that is the basis for God's choice, not predestination.  Otherwise, they should not have been cut off no matter what they did.
 
7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:

“God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that could not see and ears that could not hear, to this very day.”
 
9 And David says: “May their table become a snare and a trap, a stumbling block and a retribution for them. 10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see, and their backs be bent forever.”
 
Because of their disobedience, God blinded them spiritually so that they will fail to see the truth of the good news of salvation in Christ.
 
Yet there is still hope for Israel.  But before that, Paul first explains how Israel's transgression became an advantage to the Gentiles:
 
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
 
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
 
The Jews are like branches broken off, while the Gentiles are like branches grafted in:

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
 
If salvation is predetermined, why this breaking off and grafting in?  If you are predestined to salvation, you are part of the group; if you are predestined to hell, you were never part of the group.
 
Yet here, you can be broken off, you can be grafted in.  Broken off because of unbelief; grafted in by faith.
 
Continuing the verses, you will see that you can be grafted in, then cut off again:

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Kindness to you, provided that you continue in His kindness.  May condition pala.  Hindi predestined to salvation no matter what you do, kailangan you must continue in His kindness.
 
Otherwise, you also will be cut off.  Kita mo, e di hindi predestination, kasi may kailangang gawin.  Continue in His kindness, you remain grafted.  If not, you will be cut off.
 
23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
 
Ayun.  Grafted in na naman ang mga Jews.  Akala ko ba predestination, bakit cut off, then grafted in ulit.
 
You get the point. 
 
You are saved by your faith.  You are not saved by predestination since the beginning of time.
 
 
==================================
 
 
And now for the final portions of the chapter --- Israel's future.
 
Israel will be saved:
 
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[e] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:

“The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. 27 And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.”
 
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Israel was elect as a nation, then was cut off.  Why cut off? Because of of disobedience, not predestination.
 
Now that they are cut off, the Jews can receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to Gentiles.
 
How are Gentiles saved?  By their faith, not by predestination.  How will the Jews be saved in the time of the Gentiles?  By faith, not by predestination.
 
 
===================================     
 
 
The chapter ends with a Doxology (praise to God):
 
 
33 Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments,
    and his paths beyond tracing out!

34 “Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?”

35 “Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?” 36 For from him and through him and for him are all things.

To him be the glory forever! Amen.

[pTrader]

@ barrister,

Ang haba ah.. sige mag-aaral muna ako regarding Romans 10 and 11

[barrister]

Humaba lang kasi nilahat ko ang chapters 9-11.
 
Yung copy and paste verses lang naman ang nakahaba.

[pTrader]

Romans 10 https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010
 
Can Israel still be saved?  Romans 10 explains.
 
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved. 2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge. 3 Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
 
Christ is the answer.  Believe in Christ and you will be saved.
 
Only the Jews or only the Gentiles?  No.  It's for everyone who believes.
 
Only for those who were individually predestined since the beginning of time?  No, it's for everyone who believes.  The requirement is your faith, not your predestination.
 
 
5 Moses writes this about the righteousness that is by the law: “The person who does these things will live by them.” 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the deep?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
 
There is no difference between Jew and Gentile.  Everyone can be saved.
 
What does the Jew have to do?  Believe in Christ.  What does the Gentile have to do?  Believe in Christ.  No difference.
 
Sa Calvinism, what do you have to do?  Nothing.  You're predestined to heaven, or you're predestined to hell.  There's nothing you can do about it.
 
Sa Calvinism, does eveyone have a chance at salvation?  No. 
 
Calvinism believes in Limited Atonement --- Christ died to save His people from sin.  And who are "His people"?  Those whom God elected from the beginning of time.  If you are not a member of the elect chosen since the beginning of time, you have no chance at salvation, no matter what you do.
 
 
 
==================================

 
If chapter 9 took us back to Israel's past (hereditary bloodlines), chapter 10 now ends with Israel's present.  What is the condition of Israel?  They are disobedient:
 
16 But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” 17 Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 18 But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did:

“Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
 
19 Again I ask: Did Israel not understand? First, Moses says, I will make you envious by those who are not a nation; I will make you angry by a nation that has no understanding.”
 
20 And Isaiah boldly says, “I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.”
 
21 But concerning Israel he says, “All day long I have held out my hands to a disobedient and obstinate people.”

Many Jews rejected the good news of Christ.  The Gentiles have no understanding of Jewish law, yet they were given salvation.
 
Why were Gentiles given salvation?  Because of their faith in Christ.  Can the Jews still be saved?  Yes, if they have faith in Christ.
 
Therefore, faith in Christ is the key, not predestination.

Balkan natin yung Romans 9

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Yung pangako po ay para sa children of the promise and are regarded as descendants ni Abraham..


22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles


And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory

 - prepared na pala yung vessels of His Mercy
-  sino ba yung vessels of mercy? yung tinawag ng Dios mula sa mga Hudyo at Hentil (see verse 24 above)

Bottomline is, God prepared beforehand the vessels of mercy whom he called.

[bumblebee]

May I ask, if there are already predestined people who'll be saved, then what's the point of us being here? What's the point of them being here? Whom did Jesus die for? Why did he even come here in the first place?

[jhelenz]

May I ask, if there are already predestined people who'll be saved, then what's the point of us being here? What's the point of them being here? Whom did Jesus die for? Why did he even come here in the first place?

ang pagkakaalam ko, meron mga tao na predestined to be saved (they were mentioned in revelations, some jew tribes I think. meron pa nga bilang kung ilan sila). Jesus died for the non jew or gentiles if I'm not mistaken

[majoe]

That is why I love what God has done, he put boundaries..

Acts 17:26

English Standard Version
And he made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their dwelling place,

parang di naman boundaries ng free will ibig sabihin dyan. "place" ang nakasulat at di "will".

[barrister]

ang pagkakaalam ko, meron mga tao na predestined to be saved (they were mentioned in revelations, some jew tribes I think. meron pa nga bilang kung ilan sila). Jesus died for the non jew or gentiles if I'm not mistaken

That's Revelation 7:4, the 144,000 of Israel ---
 
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed:
 
The predestination of the 144,000 is a Jehovah's Witness doctrine, not a Calvinist doctrine.  JWs believe that only 144,000 will enter heaven, called the heavenly hope. 
 
The Jehovah's Witnesses are wrong (alam n'yo na kung bakit wala akong inaniban na sekta, puro mali kasi...  )
 
The 144,000 are the Jews who will be sealed, meaning they will be given special protection from the Antichrist during the tribulation period.  The tribulation period is an event that will come in the future, foretold in Revelation.

[barrister]

Balkan natin yung Romans 9

6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7 nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “through Isaac your descendants will be named.” 8 That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.

Yung pangako po ay para sa children of the promise and are regarded as descendants ni Abraham..

Tama.  Yung children of the promise ang considered descendants ni Abraham.
 
Sino ba yung dapat na considered descendants ni Abraham?  Si Ishmael.  Bakit?  Siya yung panganay ni Abraham.
 
Pero sino ang gusto ng Diyos na considered descendants ni Abraham?  Si Isaac na second-born --- the child of the promise.
 
If Isaac is the child of the promise, then Isaac and the descendants of Isaac are the children of the promise.  They are considered the descendants of Abraham.
 
Di ba ito yung sabi ko:
 

Those verses are not about predestination in salvation; they are about the birthright of the older son.

Romans 9 refers to Israel’s past as a nation, not individual salvation.

=================================
 

Why is Isaac considered the child of the promise?  Because a son was promised to Sarah when she was already 90 years old:
 
8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. 9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.” (Rom. 9:8-9)
 

==================================
 
 
The Old Testament story:
 
 
One day, three men came to Abraham and Sarah. ---
 
9 “Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him. “There, in the tent,” he said.
 
10 Then one of them said, “I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son.”
 
Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. 11 Abraham and Sarah were already very old, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing. ...
 
14 Is anything too hard for the Lord? I will return to you at the appointed time next year, and Sarah will have a son.”  (Gen. 18:9-11, 14)

The son was named "Isaac." ---
 
Now the Lord was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the Lord did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him. 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac to the son Sarah bore him. (Gen. 21:1-3)
 
 
==================================
 

Nasaan ang predestination to heaven diyan?  Wala na naman.

[barrister]

Balkan natin yung Romans 9

...

22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles


And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory

 - prepared na pala yung vessels of His Mercy
-  sino ba yung vessels of mercy? yung tinawag ng Dios mula sa mga Hudyo at Hentil (see verse 24 above)

Bottomline is, God prepared beforehand the vessels of mercy whom he called.

 
Understand the context.
 
- God is sovereign.  He can do what He wants, and we have no right to complain.
- In the same way that the potter has the right to make any kind of vessel that he wants.
- The vessel has no right to complain to the potter.
 
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
 
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? (Rom. 9:20-21)
 
The vessel cannot complain to the potter.  If the vessel is bad, the potter can destroy it. 
 
But here's the point that you missed --- the vessel has the ability to repent. 
 
If the vessel is bad, yet changes and turns out good later, the potter will reconsider and will not destroy it.
 
Can the vessel change so that the potter will reconsider?  Yes.  That's Jeremiah 18, with the same analogy of the potter ---
 
This is the word that came to Jeremiah from the Lord: 2 “Go down to the potter’s house, and there I will give you my message.” 3 So I went down to the potter’s house, and I saw him working at the wheel. 4 But the pot he was shaping from the clay was marred in his hands; so the potter formed it into another pot, shaping it as seemed best to him.
 
5 Then the word of the Lord came to me. 6 He said, “Can I not do with you, Israel, as this potter does?” declares the Lord. “Like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, Israel. 7 If at any time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, 8 and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. 9 And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted, 10 and if it does evil in my sight and does not obey me, then I will reconsider the good I had intended to do for it. (Jer. 18:1-10)
 
In Jeremiah 18, we see that the potter can reconsider if he sees that the vessel changes or repents.
 
Bearing in mind that the vessels have the free will to change, and the potter can destroy the vessel that was originally good but became bad, or form into another vessel the one that became good, let's continue to Romans 9:22 onwards ---

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? (Rom. 9:22-24)

In verse 22 --- The vessels of wrath.  The potter endured with much patience, wating for the vessels to change into good vessels.  If the vessels change into good, the potter will not destroy them.
 
In verse 23 --- The vessels of mercy.  The potter made good vessels, but if the vessels become bad, the potter will destroy them. 
 
The vessel can change from bad into good, and the potter will reconsider and will not destroy it.
 
That's not predestination, that's free will.
 

Final evidence that the vessel has the free will to change itself ---
 
20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work. (Rom. 9:20-21)
 
Clearly, the vessel can change itself.  Cleanse yourself from the dishonorable, and you become a good vessel, set apart as holy.
 
That's free will.  Not predestination.

[dpogs]

Ang tangi ko lang masasabi is

The salvation i received is not because of me, God found me. It is all by the grace of God, not of myself, not of my own works, not my own choice, the Holy Spirit touched my heart (wicked of all things) unto repentance and lead me to faith, all by the grace of God. There is nothing to boast since it is not I but God. Glory be to God.

[panzimus]

^so sir dpogs, in relation to what you said, it's like kung ang isang tao ay napakasama nya but he was touched by the Holy Spirit, salvation is his. just as same sa tao naman na napaka buti but hindi siya touched by the Holy Spirit, salvation is not his?

[dpogs]

^so sir dpogs, in relation to what you said, it's like kung ang isang tao ay napakasama nya but he was touched by the Holy Spirit, salvation is his. just as same sa tao naman na napaka buti but hindi siya touched by the Holy Spirit, salvation is not his?

"But without faith it is impossible to please him," Heb.11:6 KJV

God requires not our works, since some of us will just probably boast on how good they are, on how much impact they have for the goodness of this world, and if we depend our salvation in our good works, whose glory is it?

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. I Cor.1:27-31 KJV

[panzimus]

"But without faith it is impossible to please him," Heb.11:6 KJV

God requires not our works, since some of us will just probably boast on how good they are, on how much impact they have for the goodness of this world, and if we depend our salvation in our good works, whose glory is it?

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. I Cor.1:27-31 KJV

what if granted both of them may faith?

[dpogs]

what if granted both of them may faith?

if it is genuine faith, in that case, both of them pleased God, and the Glory must be unto God not our self and God will reward them based on their work.

And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. Rev.22:12 KJV

[bumblebee]

ang pagkakaalam ko, meron mga tao na predestined to be saved (they were mentioned in revelations, some jew tribes I think. meron pa nga bilang kung ilan sila). Jesus died for the non jew or gentiles if I'm not mistaken

The question is, why would he need to die if people are already predestined?

[dpogs]

The question is, why would he need to die if people are already predestined?

21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: Col.1:22 KJV

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Heb.9:28 KJV

To become perfect sacrifice for our sins.