Topic: The Religion Thread

[Clondalkin]

I wonder if this latest prediction has something to do with one of our religious member who posted things like end the world scenario toward the end of this year.

[dpogs]

It says it comes like a thief in the night. In a twinkling of an eye. I believe that is the start of the end of the world. And if that happens later o mamya, i believe i will never see the coming of Jesus but will be on His side when He comes.

If we are really a believer and end of times comes mamya and we re still alive, we will never see the second coming of Jesus Christ because we will be on His side when He comes.

I believe the start of end of world will come like a theif in the night. Well never know when it will happen. That is why no one can say that "sigurado ako na hindi yan mangyayari mamya o bukas". By the way the start of end of world is prosperity.

[typ2audio]

Anong masasabi nyo sa magulang na ayaw binyagan ang anak nya, with the reason na hihintayin daw nya magka isip ang anak nyak ung gusto nyang magka relihiyon o hindi?

[dpogs]

Anong masasabi nyo sa magulang na ayaw binyagan ang anak nya, with the reason na hihintayin daw nya magka isip ang anak nyak ung gusto nyang magka relihiyon o hindi?

Baptism is a personal decision, to join a religion should be a personal decision, to believe in God should always be a personal decision, we can guide our sons and daughter to believe in God and His teaching but we dont force them nor decide on behalf of them kung ano magiging religion nila. But we can guide them and teach them our faith so that whem they grow old they will not depart from it.

That is what i am doing to my daughter.

[barrister]

It says it comes like a thief in the night. In a twinkling of an eye. I believe that is the start of the end of the world. And if that happens later o mamya, i believe i will never see the coming of Jesus but will be on His side when He comes.

If we are really a believer and end of times comes mamya and we re still alive, we will never see the second coming of Jesus Christ because we will be on His side when He comes.

I believe the start of end of world will come like a theif in the night. Well never know when it will happen. That is why no one can say that "sigurado ako na hindi yan mangyayari mamya o bukas". By the way the start of end of world is prosperity.

Hindi ganon ang meaning ng thief in the night.
 
Yes, pag sinabing thief in the night, it means it will come unexpectedly. 
 
But it does not mean it will come unexpectedly to all.  It will only come unexpectedly to those who are in darkness.  It will not come unexpectedly to those who are in the light.
 
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2 for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
 
4 But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. 5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness. 6 So then, let us not be like others, who are asleep, but let us be awake and sober. (1 Thes. 5:1-6)
 
Kita mo na. 
 
Those who are children of the light will not be surprised as one is surprised by a thief, because they will be awake and sober, waiting and watching for the Lord's return.
 
Those who are in darkness are the ones who will be surprised, because they belong to the night or darkness, and they will be asleep when the Lord comes, which to them will be like a thief in the night.
 
37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. (Mt. 24:37-39)
 
"As it was in the days of Noah" ---  It means that those who did not believe Noah were surprised, but those who believed Noah were not surprised.
 
In those days, the prophet Noah warned the people about the coming flood, but they did not believe him.  That's why they knew nothing about the coming flood.
 
But if they believed in Noah's warnings of repentance and the coming flood, then they would not have been surprised.  That's why the 7 other members of Noah's family were not surprised, because they believed the warning.
 
Therefore, the flood came like a thief in the night to those who did not believe, but it did not come like a thief in the night to those who believed --- namely, Noah and his family.
 
That is how it will be when Christ returns.
 
Not everyone will be surprised.  You will be taken by surprise if you do not believe God's word.  But if you believe, you will not be surprised when Christ returns --- As it was in the days of Noah.
 
Is it possible to know the exact date and time of Jesus' return? 
 
No, because only the Father knows that.
 
But it will be possible for us to discern when that time is near, and when that time is not yet near.  The discernment will be similar to knowing when a change of seasons is near:
 
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. (Mt. 24:32-33)
 
Therefore, it is possible for us to know that Christ's return will definitely not be tomorrow, because that will only be a matter of one day, not a matter of years or decades. 
 
In the same manner, we can see signs that summer is approaching, and we can be sure that the season will not change instantly from winter to summer in the span of just one day.
 
26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
 
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’
 
30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. (Mt. 24:26-30)

Has the distress of the "abomination of desolation" occurred?  No.  Have the sun and moon darkened, stars fallen from the sky, and heavenly bodies shaken?  No.
 
Then it will not be tomorrow.

[dpogs]

I think you're referring to actual descending/coming of Christ. As I said, for me the start of end of world is prosperity. I am referring to start of end of world. I am not talking about the descending of Christ. Because if that happens, I will not witness the descending of Christ since I will be with Him when he descend.

Specifically, I am talking about the rapture. In a twinkling of an eye. No one really knows. If it tomorrow or later. then, that the start of end of the world. prosperity then tribulation then those signs in heaven, then descend of Jesus Christ.

The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). > this is what I am talking about thief in the night. In a twinkling of an eye. This will happen anytime pwede mamya or bukas. any moment. no one knows.

The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). > I think this is what you're referring there will be great tribulation, seven horses etc, and the second coming of Christ




also those signs you're describing may happen anytime... maybe later or tomorrow then the descend of Jesus Christ.

[pTrader]

I think you're referring to actual descending/coming of Christ. As I said, for me the start of end of world is prosperity. I am referring to start of end of world. I am not talking about the descending of Christ. Because if that happens, I will not witness the descending of Christ since I will be with Him when he descend.

Specifically, I am talking about the rapture. In a twinkling of an eye. No one really knows. If it tomorrow or later. then, that the start of end of the world. prosperity then tribulation then those signs in heaven, then descend of Jesus Christ.

The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). > this is what I am talking about thief in the night. In a twinkling of an eye. This will happen anytime pwede mamya or bukas. any moment. no one knows.

The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). > I think this is what you're referring there will be great tribulation, seven horses etc, and the second coming of Christ




also those signs you're describing may happen anytime... maybe later or tomorrow then the descend of Jesus Christ.

sir, inde  na secrect yung end of the world naipahayag na yan at nasulata pa sa Kasulatan. at  wala na pong secret secret kaya nga may Kasulatan.

[typ2audio]

sir, inde  na secrect yung end of the world naipahayag na yan at nasulata pa sa Kasulatan. at  wala na pong secret secret kaya nga may Kasulatan.

Sinong sumulat ng kasulatan na yan? paano nyo maverify na hindi hokus pokus yon?

[pTrader]

Sinong sumulat ng kasulatan na yan? paano nyo maverify na hindi hokus pokus yon?

sir yung pagbalik ng exact na oras ni Cristo inde sinabe pero yung tanda ng wakas nasulat na.

[barrister]

I think you're referring to actual descending/coming of Christ. As I said, for me the start of end of world is prosperity. I am referring to start of end of world. I am not talking about the descending of Christ. Because if that happens, I will not witness the descending of Christ since I will be with Him when he descend.

Specifically, I am talking about the rapture. In a twinkling of an eye. No one really knows. If it tomorrow or later. then, that the start of end of the world. prosperity then tribulation then those signs in heaven, then descend of Jesus Christ.

The rapture will be secret and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). > this is what I am talking about thief in the night. In a twinkling of an eye. This will happen anytime pwede mamya or bukas. any moment. no one knows.

The second coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30). > I think this is what you're referring there will be great tribulation, seven horses etc, and the second coming of Christ


also those signs you're describing may happen anytime... maybe later or tomorrow then the descend of Jesus Christ.

Brader dpogs, we are not on the same page, kaya hindi tayo magkaintindihan.

You forgot what I said about the rapture:

Hindi ako naniniwala sa rapture sir.

Sa issue na yan, malayo na naman ang beliefs natin.

In my explanation in Reply 1864 above, what I am actually saying is that the doctrine of the secret rapture is not biblical.  There is no secret rapture in the bible.

The thief in the night applies to those in the darkness, not to those in the light. The twinkling of an eye, referring to  the resurrection of the dead, will not take the living believers by surprise, because there are signs that will come before the resurrection:

51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. (1 Cor. 15:51-52)

There will be seven trumpets.  The last trumpet sounds, and the dead will resurrect in the twinkling of an eye.  The first trumpet tells you that when the seventh trumpet comes, that's when the dead will resurrect.  Paanong naging secret and surprise yon, kung 7 trumpets nga ang nag-announce?

Yet even before the seven trumpets, there will be other prior signs like the seven seals.  That's why it will cannot be a secret, and it cannot be a surprise to the believers.

On this issue, we are so far apart that we will never be able to agree.

And that's why this is another issue that we should simply treat as a presentation of two different viewpoints.

[pTrader]

Brader dpogs, we are not on the same page, kaya hindi tayo magkaintindihan.


You forgot what I said about the rapture:



In my explanation above, I what am actually saying is that the doctrine of the secret rapture is not biblical.  There is no secret rapture in the bible.


On this issue, we are so far apart that we will never be able to agree.


That's why this is another issue that we should treat as a presentation of two different viewpoints.

agree, wala talagang secret rapture.

[barrister]

Ok lang yon, those are minor differences.

At least lumilinaw ang mga doctrinal differences natin.

Tayo naman ang mag discuss, sir.

Sabi mo, walang secret rapture.  Bakit ganito ang sinasabi sa Mt. 24:40-41:

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mt. 24: 36-41)

One will be taken and the other one left.  It means may secret rapture?  Na-rapture yung isa, pero hindi na-rapture yung isa? 

That's one of the proof verses of the secret rapture groups.  Binigay ko na kay sir dpogs yung matibay na proof verse nila. 

[pTrader]

Ok lang yon, those are minor differences.

At least lumilinaw ang mga doctrinal differences natin.

Tayo naman ang mag discuss, sir.

Sabi mo, walang secret rapture.  Bakit ganito ang sinasabi sa Mt. 24:40-41:

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mt. 24: 36-41)

One will be taken and the other one left.  It means may secret rapture?  Na-rapture yung isa, pero hindi na-rapture yung isa? 

That's one of the proof verses of the secret rapture groups.  Binigay ko na kay sir dpogs yung matibay na proof verse nila. 

sa pagdating ng Panginoong Jesus, ihihiwalay lang naman yung mananampalataya at inde manamnampalataya.

[Nelson de Leon]

Ok lang yon, those are minor differences.

At least lumilinaw ang mga doctrinal differences natin.

Tayo naman ang mag discuss, sir.

Sabi mo, walang secret rapture.  Bakit ganito ang sinasabi sa Mt. 24:40-41:

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mt. 24: 36-41)

One will be taken and the other one left.  It means may secret rapture?  Na-rapture yung isa, pero hindi na-rapture yung isa? 

That's one of the proof verses of the secret rapture groups.  Binigay ko na kay sir dpogs yung matibay na proof verse nila. 

Hindi ba verse yan for the 2nd coming of Jesus? It's not about rapture. It's about the end times. If you would continue sa verse 42-44:

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

[dpogs]

Just like death, youll never kailan mangyayari piwede mamya o bukas. Though madlas may mga sign ang malapit nang mamatay. Old age, cancer terminal, hindi napuruham sa aksidente, etc.

Di naman talaga secret ang rapture or ang second coming, the secret is the time, when will it happen. Kailan ba magaganap ang unang pakakak? Pwede mamya o bukas, o next month, walang nakakaalam.

[pTrader]

Just like death, youll never kailan mangyayari piwede mamya o bukas. Though madlas may mga sign ang malapit nang mamatay. Old age, cancer terminal, hindi napuruham sa aksidente, etc.

Di naman talaga secret ang rapture or ang second coming, the secret is the time, when will it happen. Kailan ba magaganap ang unang pakakak? Pwede mamya o bukas, o next month, walang nakakaalam.

clarification lang, yung rapture ba na sinasabe mo yung pre-trib rapture? baka mali pag kaunawa ko..

[dpogs]

clarification lang, yung rapture ba na sinasabe mo yung pre-trib rapture? baka mali pag kaunawa ko..

Yes, pre-trib, before Jesus descend for battle in armageddon.

[hotrod]

36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son,[f] but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left. (Mt. 24: 36-41)

So who are the ones who are “taken” when Jesus comes? And who are those who are “left”?

[barrister]

Hindi ba verse yan for the 2nd coming of Jesus? It's not about rapture. It's about the end times. If you would continue sa verse 42-44:

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

I'm not the right person to ask.

I don't believe in the rapture.  So if you say that verse is not about the rapture, then I will agree that it is not about the rapture, because there is no such thing as a rapture anywhere in the bible.

[dpogs]

Those who are innocent or with pure heart tulad ng mga sanggol at mga walang muwang na bata

At ang mga son of God, those who were born again - born by the Spirit.

[dpogs]

I'm not the right person to ask.

I don't believe in the rapture.  So if you say that verse is not about the rapture, then I will agree that it is not about the rapture, because there is no such thing as a rapture anywhere in the bible.

You dont believe in the word "rapture"? Or iyong mismong idea ng rapture - re kukunin ang nanampalataya bago ang tribulation.

[bumblebee]

Those who are innocent or with pure heart tulad ng mga sanggol at mga walang muwang na bata

Akala ko by default, impyerno ang punta?

[pTrader]

Yes, pre-trib, before Jesus descend for battle in armageddon.

I will ask again, eto ba yung related sa verse below:

1 Thessalonians 4:16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

[dpogs]

Akala ko by default, impyerno ang punta?

By default human will go to hell because of their sins. Tell me anong kasalanan ng isang sanggol?

[dpogs]

I will ask again, eto ba yung related sa verse below:

1 Thessalonians 4:16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

If that is the event before tribulation (7 years of peace and tribulation), yes.

[pTrader]

By default human will go to hell because of their sins. Tell me anong kasalanan ng isang sanggol?

pag sinabe ng mommy, tumahan ka, sunod kaagad ba yung sanggol o patuloy na iiyak?

[barrister]

You dont believe in the word "rapture"? Or iyong mismong idea ng rapture - re kukunin ang nanampalataya bago ang tribulation.

Yung idea or concept mismo ang sinasabi ko, kapatid.

Walang secret rapture, wala ring rapture.  I assure you, it took me years to develop my view on this.

Hindi na tayo magkakasundo sa issue na yan sir.  Pero ok na rin, kasi marami naman tayong ibang issues na pinagkakasunduan.

[pTrader]

If that is the event before tribulation (7 years of peace and tribulation), yes.

kung iyan yan, medyo malayu yung timing.

Daniel 12:1At sa panahong yaon ay tatayo si Miguel, na dakilang prinsipe na tumatayo sa ikabubuti ng mga anak ng iyong bayan; at magkakaroon ng panahon ng kabagabagan, na hindi nangyari kailan man mula nang magkaroon ng bansa hanggang sa panahong yaon: at sa panahong yaon ay maliligtas ang iyong bayan, bawa't isa na masusumpungan na nakasulat sa aklat. 2At marami sa kanila na nangatutulog sa alabok ng lupa ay mangagigising, ang iba'y sa walang hanggang buhay, at ang iba'y sa kahihiyan at sa walang hanggang pagkapahamak.


Pansinin mo yung verse 1 at verse  2.

[barrister]

sa pagdating ng Panginoong Jesus, ihihiwalay lang naman yung mananampalataya at inde manamnampalataya.

The way I understand it, you believe in the rapture, but not the secret rapture. 

Tama ba sir?  You believe the elect will be raptured when Christ returns?  A post-tribulation rapture?

[pTrader]

The way I understand it, you believe in the rapture, but not the secret rapture. 

Tama ba sir?  You believe the elect will be raptured when Christ returns?  A post-tribulation rapture?

eto lang yung eschatology ko sir, si Cristo ay babalik kahit na anong in between events na mangyari.

John 14:1“Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in Goda ; believe also in me.2My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.4You know the way to the place where I am going.”


Matthew 28:18At lumapit si Jesus sa kanila at sila'y kaniyang kinausap, na sinasabi, Ang lahat ng kapamahalaan sa langit at sa ibabaw ng lupa ay naibigay na sa akin. 19Dahil dito magsiyaon nga kayo, at gawin ninyong mga alagad ang lahat ng mga bansa, na sila'y inyong bautismuhan sa pangalan ng Ama at ng Anak at ng Espiritu Santo: 20Na ituro ninyo sa kanila na kanilang ganapin ang lahat ng mga bagay na iniutos ko sa inyo: at narito, ako'y sumasa inyong palagi, hanggang sa katapusan ng sanglibutan.

Sabi sa Mat 28:20,  hanggang sa katapusan ng sanglibutan sasamahan tayo ng Panginoong Jesus.
Continuous din yung atas (so called "Great Commision") hanggang sa katapusan ng sanglibutan.


Matt 13:The Parable of the Weeds

24Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
 
27“The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
 
28“ ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.

“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
 
29“ ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them.30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”

The Parable of the Weeds Explained

36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, “Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.”
 
37He answered, “The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man.38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the people of the kingdom. The weeds are the people of the evil one,39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
 
40“As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.42They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear.


sa Parable of the weeds mas kapansinpansin na inuna yung WEEDS bago yung WHEAT:

First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ ”