Topic: Question on Imaging

[anchit]

Hello, i cant decide kung saang thread ko sya dapat ilagay kung sa speakers, amp o source.

Well here's my question, why is it that mas evident na nasa right speaker nanggagaling yung boses sa most the tracks tha i play? Ive changed preamps, cdp and speakers pero its still more evident na sa kanan na speakers galing ang boses wherein diba dapat centered sya?

Is it because my right channel is a lot closer to the wall? I've checked the connection of the ICs baka nagkapalit pero tama naman. O mas malakas lang ang right na tenga ko?



Thanks in advance for the rEplies

[audiojunkie]

 IMHO, not always on center. depends on how the music/track was mixed or according to where musicians located at to produce life like soundstage.

I would suggest to use  SPL meter gage to validate that the right channel is louder than other channels or run an auto calibration if amp has this feature.   

[Nelson de Leon]

Ibang level na si Francis!!! 

 IMHO, not always on center. depends on how the music/track was mixed or according to where musicians located at to produce life like soundstage.

I would suggest to use  SPL meter gage to validate that the right channel is louder than other channels or run an auto calibration if amp has this feature.   

I totally agree with you. And of course depende din sa material.

And hindi niyo ba napapansin, madalas ang piano, kalat sa stage? Seldom na pinpointed image a piano sa isang location.

[timber715]

why not use something concrete... Perhaps a Nora Jones song and reference from there...

[ATJr.]

 IMHO, not always on center. depends on how the music/track was mixed or according to where musicians located at to produce life like soundstage.

I would suggest to use  SPL meter gage to validate that the right channel is louder than other channels or run an auto calibration if amp has this feature.  

+1000........this is an issue where your ears can't help you.....you need instruments to verify polarity of speakers, an spl meter and frequency sweep analyser to get an overall response plot of your system.....

until you can have these instruments, all we can do is talk about it....

there is a sofware that can be installed in your laptops or tablets that lets you do all these testing, you can pm ojofool about this software....

[Courage]

+1000........this is an issue where your ears can't help you.....you need instruments to verify polarity of speakers, an spl meter and frequency sweep analyser to get an overall response plot of your system.....

until you can have these instruments, all we can do is talk about it....

there is a sofware that can be installed in your laptops or tablets that lets you do all these testing, you can pm ojofool about this software....

Meron bang calibration software for windows tapos gagamitin mong mic eh mic nang laptop or you can attach a mic sa IN nang laptop?

[streetsmart]

If you suspect that there's something wrong with the speaker, why don't you swap the left and right speakers and see if the "problem" is still there.

It's true that the image of a voice will vary, depending on the mix, but it's also true that a lot of mixes clamp the voice in the center. If you never hear the voice in the center, there's something wrong.

I suspect the problem is the location of the speaker.

[audiojunkie]

Manually calibrated my speakers with the help of this..





 

[Cjtjader]

Have you tried listening to a monaural recording?

[anchit]

Thanks for the response:)

sir nelson: iba na ba? Dati ang Image sakin is Picture eh hehe.

Sir Mark: ive already tried swapping the speakers and ive also changed speakers pero same results.

Hindi naman sa lahat ng CDs or tracks na mas evident sa righst channel, 70% of the time. Ang sure ako, pag jack johnson songs, centerd talaga ang boses, pero yung mga Best Audiophile voices selection CD, the souce of voice is more evident sa right, even if i close my eyes. So does it mean na its actually how he tracks were recorded?

I will try to do a more concerete measurement, try ko magdownload ng app or use spl meter:)

[qguy]

the speaker closer to the wall will be louder.... swap the speakers including the cables, the speakers on the Right will still be louder, in this scenario you can only fix it by adjusting the balance or relocating the right speaker away from the wall.

[anchit]

Have you tried listening to a monaural recording?

hindi pa si cal.

One particular track, Amazing Grace by Randy Owen, im listening to it right now, nasa right galing ang boses.

[anchit]

the speaker closer to the wall will be louder.... swap the speakers including the cables, the speakers on the Right will still be louder, in this scenario you can only fix it by adjusting the balance or relocating the right speaker away from the wall.

i jus tried  adjusting the right speaker, away from the wall pero i get the same result. Is it because yung wall sa right speaker ko concrete na wall and yung nasa left wood, sa side kasi sya ng pinyo ko and its not a solid wood?

[qguy]

Another trick is to move the LEFT speaker closer to you, or AIM it direct to you, you can also aim the Right speaker away from you. .. trial and error

[qguy]

assuming the equipment is working properliy, anything not symetrical in the room   will affect imaging...

i jus tried  adjusting the right speaker, away from the wall pero i get the same result. Is it because yung wall sa right speaker ko concrete na wall and yung nasa left wood, sa side kasi sya ng pinyo ko and its not a solid wood?

[Wildfire™]

it might be the amps bias, have you tried with other amps?

[anchit]

it might be the amps bias, have you tried with other amps?

preamp sir yes pero power amp hindi.

Im listening to Jack Johnson's sleep thru the static album, centered na centered naman sya

[audiojunkie]

try to experiment by putting absorbent material on the conc. wall and observe the effect.... 

[streetsmart]

Another way -- move your listening position up so that you are nearer to the speakers than they are to each other. Then, point the speakers directly towards you. If you can, make sure that the tweeters are at the same level as your ears.

That puts you in a nearfield position and will mitigate the effects of reflections. You will hear mostly the direct sound.

[oweidah]

+1000........this is an issue where your ears can't help you.....you need instruments to verify polarity of speakers, an spl meter and frequency sweep analyser to get an overall response plot of your system.....

until you can have these instruments, all we can do is talk about it....

there is a sofware that can be installed in your laptops or tablets that lets you do all these testing, you can pm ojofool about this software....

i think its called audio-tools. nakita ko gamit ng isang audiophile. hindi ko makita kay pareng google.
meron din tayo nakita na maliit ng gadget na ginamit na pang-tono ng system bago patugtugin para flat lahat ng freq.resp.

hingi tayo kay JF? sure magustuhan niya ang gawa mo.

[oweidah]

 IMHO, not always on center. depends on how the music/track was mixed or according to where musicians located at to produce life like soundstage.

I would suggest to use  SPL meter gage to validate that the right channel is louder than other channels or run an auto calibration if amp has this feature.   

aywa, tumpak ka sadik. try mo hanapin audio tools software (not audio fools ha  ) pwede install sa ipad.

gusto natin laging nasa sweetspot o gitna pero ang actual live performance o recording hindi naman lahat nasa gitna di ba? na-validate ko yan nung makapakinig sa system na wall-of-sound, parang live performance ang dating, di ba KaTony 

 

[audiojunkie]

aywa, tumpak ka sadik. try mo hanapin audio tools software (not audio fools ha  ) pwede install sa ipad.

gusto natin laging nasa sweetspot o gitna pero ang actual live performance o recording hindi naman lahat nasa gitna di ba? na-validate ko yan nung makapakinig sa system na wall-of-sound, parang live performance ang dating, di ba KaTony 

shukran sadik...  enshaalah.. ana shof hadah. 

iba pa rin ang sensation ng (pakikinig) pag nasa sweetspot....    tama kayo dyan, kung maganda ang pakaka mixed ng music kahit saang spot dinig pa rin ang presence ng bawat instrumento... 

[ATJr.]

gusto natin laging nasa sweetspot o gitna pero ang actual live performance o recording hindi naman lahat nasa gitna di ba? na-validate ko yan nung makapakinig sa system na wall-of-sound, parang live performance ang dating, di ba KaTony 

mismo.....high definition set-ups lets you hear the music from anywhere in the room with the same clarity.........

[anchit]

thanks sa mga inputs, i will give it a try.

another thing, pag malapit naman ako about 3 feet from it, well centered naman ang boses. pag lumayo nako dun na nawawala sa center.

[JoeyGS]

Anchit,

First you need to know how a particular track is actually being presented during playback before you make the test or adjustments.

One way, is to listen through a headphones and verify the imaging of the vocals and the instruments.

OR, get a test CD, like those Chesky test CDs.  In these test cds there are tracks testing left and right balance, phasing, depth, imaging, etc.

Check this out in your favorite stores or from your friends:

http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demonstration-Disc-Critical-Listening/dp/B00002MXUH
or
http://www.amazon.com/XLO-Reference-Test-Burn-Recordings/dp/B0000015AL/ref=pd_sim_m_2
or
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Demonstration-Disc-Various-Artists/dp/B0016KCBNC/ref=pd_sim_m_14

When you have these materials, then you can test and adjust, speaker placement and/or acoustic treatment.  

BTW, also check all you wires and ensure all are connected consistently.

Hope this helps.

[JoeyGS]

That is because your room is interacting with the speakers and likewise depending on where you are positioned when listening.

thanks sa mga inputs, i will give it a try.

another thing, pag malapit naman ako about 3 feet from it, well centered naman ang boses. pag lumayo nako dun na nawawala sa center.

[audiojunkie]

thanks sa mga inputs, i will give it a try.

another thing, pag malapit naman ako about 3 feet from it, well centered naman ang boses. pag lumayo nako dun na nawawala sa center.

sa 3ft. distance mas nakafocus sayo about 90% signal ng center at yung L/R  kunti lang porsyento lang ang naririnig nyo. At certain distance, possible that the frequency signal from center was cancelled out by L/R channels plus reflections from hard surface. It appears louder cuz it reaches our ears miliseconds after the direct sound. 

[streetsmart]

thanks sa mga inputs, i will give it a try.

another thing, pag malapit naman ako about 3 feet from it, well centered naman ang boses. pag lumayo nako dun na nawawala sa center.

You are experiencing a very well-known phenomenon in audio. What we hear from our system is a mix of direct sounds coming from the speakers and reflections coming from the sounds which bounce off the walls, floors and ceiling.

Reflections *may* have a negative effect on sq, including poor imaging, spectral balance, ringing, intelligibility, etc. These "bad" reflections are usually the first reflections. There can also be "good" reflections which tend to give a sense of space, for example. These are the later reflections.

Draw an imaginary equilateral triangle with your 2 speakers and the main listening position. The general rule is that if you go closer to the speakers (you go "inside" the equilateral triangle), there is much more direct sound than reflected sound. Thus, you remove the possible negative effects of reflections. Take note though that on the other hand, you also remove the "good" reflections.

[streetsmart]

sa 3ft. distance mas nakafocus sayo about 90% signal ng center at yung L/R  kunti lang porsyento lang ang naririnig nyo. At certain distance, possible that the frequency signal from center was cancelled out by L/R channels plus reflections from hard surface. It appears louder cuz it reaches our ears miliseconds after the direct sound. 

I think that anchit was referring to the "centered image" of the 2 stereo channels, not a center channel. Ang sinasabi niya is that kapag lumapit sya, maganda ang imaging pero pag lumayo siya, nasisira ang imaging.

[audiojunkie]

I think that anchit was referring to the "centered image" of the 2 stereo channels, not a center channel. Ang sinasabi niya is that kapag lumapit sya, maganda ang imaging pero pag lumayo siya, nasisira ang imaging.

Thanks sir Mark for the clarification. I stand corrected...